GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Colonist, Volume IV, Issue 399, 20 August 1861, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, July 23.

JURIES.

Mr. A. J. Richmond asked if there was any intention of altering the present sys'em of constituting juries, by which whole families were sometimes jurymen at one time.

Mr. Fox admitted the evil, and said that the Government would give their earliest attention to the subject.

FINANCIAL STATEMENT.

Mr. Wood said: The subject naturally divides itself into two parts—the past and the future. With regard then to the past, I am exceedinglyanxious to place this committee in possession of" the fullest information up to the most recent dates. I shall now attempt to inform the committee of what was to be the actual position of affairs on June 30,1861. With regard to the. Revenue, the first and principal item of account is that of Customs Receipts, which wero estimated by my predecessor to amount to £193,000. They will .be found to have reached £205,000. The "Postal Revenue Was estimated at £11,000, and has actually reached to ,£11,564. The revenue from the various courts under the head judicial, was estimated at £12,300, and has only reached to £9078. On account of the Land Claims Settlement Act, £800 have been received, ,£SOO were estimated. The fees of the Registrar of Births, Deaths, and Marriages, have actually amounted to £966, and were estimated at £800. 1 The fees arising from Crown Grants were at £1500, and have amounted to: only £1095. Those from miscellaneous sources were estimated at £500, and £353 have been received. The total estimated Revenue was £219,600, the actual Revenue was £228,856. The way in which that revenue has been expended is as follows:—The Civil List Charges, £19,000; . the Permanent Charges, '£25,000; the various appropriations by this house, £96,574; amounting to a total of £140,574. The provinces have- received their three-eights of the Customs Revenue amounting to £76,875; which leaves a balance of £11,407, which is appropriated to paying- off onethird of the sum of £36,600 of Supplementary Expenditure incurred by the late government up tothe period of June 30,1860. [He then made a long statement concerning the half million loan, the New Zealand Company's debt, and Scott's Debentures.] With regard to the third portion of that half-million loan, viz., the £180,000. appropriated to the extinguishment of Native title in the Northern Island, the account is as follows: The amount expended from that accouat to the present time is—for the Province of Auckland, £37,506 17s. 5d.; for Wellington and Hawke's Bay, £48,255 10s. 5d.; and for Taranaki,£33l2 os. 10d. The proportions of the whole amount appropriated to these various provinces by the Public Debt Apportionment Act, 1858,-was as follows:—To the province of Auckland, £90,000;* to the provinces of Wellington and Hawke's Bay,, £54,000; and to the province of Taranaki, £36,000. The sum of £50,000 on account of the £180,000< has not yet been raised; the total amount taken up on account.of the third division is £130,000. Of this, there has been appropriated £92,000; leaving unappropriated £38,000, and there is a balance unexpended of £2000, which leaves a total amount unexpended of £40,000. Add to that the £50,000 not yet raised, there remains a balance available for the extinguishment of Native title of £90,000, or just one-half of the third division of, the half-million loan. There is another account on which it is very important that this Committee should be fully informed. It is a deposit account of the reserved sixths of the land fund, or that proportion of the provincial laud revenues which [ is reserved by the General Government, to furnish a fund for the extinguishment of Native tkle, when the last portion of the great loan account to which I have referred is expended. Up to the latest dates, namely, to the close of the quarter ended March 31st, 1861, that account stood as follows:— Amount Received .. .. £30,139 1 6 Invested in Union Bank of Australia ..... .... 10,267 11 a Advances on loan to Province of - • Hawke's Bay 5,000 0 O Do. to Hawke's Bay on account • of land purchases .. .. 3,400 0 O 1 Balance uninvested ... .. 11,471 lo 3 £30,139. 1 6 Now, sir, by turning to the Acf of 1858, which authorises the General Government to reserve from the Land Fund of the Provinces the onesixth of the receipts, jt will be fpund that the intention of that Act was that the sixths should be secured to the Provinces, by instalment. The clause by which this provision is made is as follows:— * Provided.always that until any such money shall be required, it shall be 'lawful for the Governor to invest the same, or any part thereof in such manner and upon such security as he shall think fit, for the benefit of the Province in respect of which the same shall be received.' Now, sir, what has been done with these sixths?. On the 31st March last the sum of £11,471 10s 3d was not only not invested at all, not only was it not used in any way for the benefit of the Province in respect of which the same was'received, but it wa* used by the General Government ar part of their working balance. Subsequently this sum has been, secured—if such a word can be fairly.used to.denotesuch a transaction—by the deposit of debentures; to an equivalent amount with the Union Bank. I must .confess, sir, that after all that I had heard! in this House of the irregularities committed by Superintendents, in spending public money without the sanction of the law, I was surprised to find that the General Government had been systematically using Provincial funds, contrary to the law. [The speaker then went minutely intosraall financial matters ] Now that I.have detailed to the Committee the nature of these various accounts, I will proceed to group them into one balance sheet, struck from these balanced accounts, that is to say, I will now exhibit to the Committee a statement showing what sums the Treasury \vas liable for on March 31st, 1861, and how it accounts for those liabilities :—_ ■■ • ;' :-fc- "■ _ .;■ '. . ■ Treasury liable for '", £ s. d. £ s. d. Balance of Loan of £500,000 .- .. 37,513 4 3 Adding British Treasury account ~ .. 8,133 9 1 * ——:- ■ 45,646 13 4 Deposits Miscellaneous 8,046 19 ll „ Land Purchase , Sixths Fund Ac count .. .. 11,471 10 3 19,518 10 2 special Accounts .. ISO 13 5$ £65,324 16 11J Accounted for by - • £ a. d. £ s. d. Payments on Revenue ' Account in excess of Receipts .. ..".8,297 19 War expenses, &c, charged on Loan of £150,000 \. ..18,352 6,11 Payments on account of . Provinces.. ..4,874 7 2 31,523 15 10 Balance in hands of Union Bank, London 671 Oil Treasurers and- Ac- ■• - countants .. ~33,130 0 2J ■V 65,324 16 ll* —I now turn to another part pf the subject the results of which will be far from satisfactory—l refer to that portion of the past which relates to the war expenditure. Last session authority was given to raise a war loan of £150,000. The appropi iations under that loan were divided into eight I different heads. I will now exhibit to the committee a statement showing the appropriated sums under each keadj the expenditure, the balaucea tQ

credit, and the excesses of expenditure over appropriation :— I »"° ... >o ...... 3 « *§' 'g ■'■'■'' n • O O O © © (N -< CO JJ . rf< Ob- CO O C-l CO <M g to i-i • r-i " h 'S ,% .Ho of_o <no o f£j «*} ,-. ©_ "—. C\ C>. t-_ -f_ VO <yf iO (N ,-* IO »-'—<" ci" a ■ © o©O©ooo © 2 .2 M '■§ oo©© o© © © •- '£ . ° a. o"=>©o©o©o o 2 C o OOIOOOO'O O ©. •^ o ©. <=. L-_ O, ©_ O, <M_ ©„ © &I o" «" ©~ cs o" o" <n" <n~ ©" ri c •§ b-0(MOOr-l -* ~} o w «« S J „■ w O »n<Mcoot-o wo £•"8 ' ""* " '""' S Q.T3 b- © , * IO M O O N CO 3 o CO O <M US (M O I - Ift —> « 13° aj^c "*- w- c. °. *' t- -1 n o 2 s*•* « Si g •••. . • . * C,' ■-»■••.. . m I ?- a .'' £ ~> I I 111 :i :: * C «»- rH O «" O"t • '. 3 aS .£ .£ « 3 = O v. %«««fe gS "S i «sj « apb < n This, however, is far from all. There are claims i to a considerable amount made by the Commissariat upon the Government of this colony for refund. How those claims will be eventually adjusted it is impossible for me to say, and it is not, necessary for me to give an opinion on the subject ; but I will state to the committee what those claims actually are, which are made with an urgency and importunity to which neither this committee nor thej colony can shut its eyes, and of a nature and amount, of which it is absolutely necessary that the house should be fully* informed. The whole is detailed in the following return:— : CLAIMS MADE AGAINST THE COLONIAL, GOVERNMENT BY THE COMMISSABIAT, ON ACCOUNT OF ADVANCES. £ s. d. Militia Charges from January Ist to 31st March, 1861 15,192 6 11 Sundry claims for clothing, &c, to 31st December, 1860 .. .. 53,183 1 4 Demand of £5 per head for troops in New Zealand from April Ist to 31st March, 1861.. 25,868 15 0 Demand on account of stores supplied KiOctoler, 1860 .. ~ .. 2,856 17 4 Estimated demand on acount of Militia to 30th June, 1561.. .. 10,000 0 0 Do. do. £5 per head to same date ... 6,250 0 0 Barracks at New Plymouth .. .. 7,000 0 0 £120,351 0 7 With regard to a certain portion of these demands, I have no hesitation in stating that they are most unfairly charged against the colony at the present time. Such, it appears to me, is a statement of the financial position of the colony up to June 30, 186*1. Of figures, and balances, and accounts of all kinds, there is no end, but to meet these large demands we have positively nothing. The course we propose to tako with regard to this matter, and the future expenses which it is impossible we can help incurring, I shall state to the House in-another part of my statement. I now proceed to consider the future, and to state to the House the course we propose to adopt. Upon our coming into office there were two courses open to us : the first—and that is the one we adopted—to go on with the public business of the country and ask for no delay, and without any hesitation to do the best under the circumstances that lay in our power-, the other, was to ask the House for a long adjournment, to consider carefully the various questions which presented themselves, to rearrange the Estimates, and recast the whole; but we found to do that, and to do it efficiently or carefully, would take a much longer time than we could reasonably ask this House to allow us. And though I have never concealed, nor do I now conceal, ray belief that estimates framed as they have hitherto generally been framed, are on a scale altogether too large for the requirements of a young colony such as this, yet we had no other alternative to adopt, but either to ask the house for an adjournment, which would have been very inconvenient and detrimental to the despatch of public business, or else to bring down estimates based and preipared in a manner similar to that to which the house has been accustomed for some years. We are not such rabid reformers a3 not to know that a bad system is better than no system, and that all alterations in a state of affairs that has been long in existence must be introduced with caution and «are. But though it is impossible for me to state to the house the particulars of the alterations we may think it. our duty to effect, yet I have no hesitation in stating at once the direction in which we think those alterations cm be made. The great difference in administration between the present ministry and those who preceded us will be simply this, that it will be our endeavor and : our duty to act in harmony with the Provincial Governments, while, as far as I can understand the views of our predecessors, their object was to act in opposition and in antagonism to the Provincial Governments. I believe by adopting such a course considerable savings may be effected to both Governments. With regard to the estimates which will be laid on the table of the house at the earliest [possible period, the first question which arises is 4he probable amount to which the Customs ReTenue for the ensuiug year will reach. Now, the •Customs Revenue for 1857-8 was £138,575, being ;an increase of 18 per cent, on that of tlje previous year; for 1858-9 it was £160,471, being an increase of 10 per cent, on the previous year; for 1859-60 it was £177,G45, or an increase of 10| per cent, on that of the previous year; for 1860-1 •it was .£285,000, or an increase of 15J per cent, on that of the previous year; and for 1861-2 we estimate it at £230,000, or an increase of 12 per cent, over the amount of last year. That then is the estimated amount of the Customs Revenue for the current year. The Post Office receipts we estimate at £14,500, the fees and fines from the Judicial Courts at £11,000, from the Land Claims Court £600, fees for Registration £1300, Crown Grants £1200, and revenue from miscellaneous sources £400, amounting to a total of £259,000 of ordinary revenue, to which we may fairly add a saving effected from the first division of the Civil List of 3000^., making a total of 262,000/., which is open to appropriation by this house. Of that sum we propose to expend 19,000£. on account of the Civil Listj which is not altered. The permanent charges are increased; the house will recollect that it consists of interest and sinking fund on the various loans. We shall have to provide for interest and sinking fund on account of the second division of the New Zealand Company's Loan of 120,000 Z., the first and third divisions being provided for from other sources, being, in fact, a charge upon the Land Revenue of the Provinces. There is also interest to provide on an amount taken up for land purchase at Taranaki of 3000^, at 1801. per year; and 8 per cent, on the 150,000/. loan, amounting to 12,000/ a year; and the interest of the Debenture.-?, amounting to 36,600/, at 6 per cent, for six months ; and 24,000/ at 6 per cent, for six months, for the house will recollect that I proposed that 12,000/ saved should go to pay off part of that 36,600/. We also propose £1500, interest on 25,000/ of exchequer bills, to afford to the Treasury a working balance. Another charge is the Pensions Act of 1856, by which tho old,

officials received pensions. This has dwindled down to one single item of 40W. These permanent charges also include a sum ot 6751. on account of the Luul Claims Settlement Act, which is charged For six months last year, and it is impossible to'tell for how many future years it will be so charged. There is Sir William Martin's Annuity Act, the Audit Act, the Civil Service Superannuation Act, the Public Debt Apportionment Act, and Native Schools. All these permanent charges amount to the sum of 30,<801. <3s.7ti. The appropriation of the first class (Executive) is nearly the same as before, 2304/. os., the cstmvito of expenses of tho Legislative Council is oi)CU , and for those of the General Assembly altogether 8570/. Whatever may be thought of the perfection of this form of government, it is manifestly very expensive. The electoral officers continue as they were, making a total for (he second class ot 12,(592/. 10s. For the third class there is a charge of 17,918/ Is Gd for the various courts of this colony, I certainly do think that such a charge is most enormou/, and, however it may he said, perhaps truly, that this colony is wonderfully productive in law and litigation, it is quite certain the Government has placed ample means *,t the disposal of the people, that they should litigate, if s;i inclined, for every little village has its own Resident Magistrate's Court. The expense of the Regis-trar-General's Department, or the department which prepares so well those statistics which are annually laid before the house, amounts to 860/ ; the District Registrar's to 800/; making a total for the fourth class of 2310/. The Customs Department is estimated at 21,356/ 15s. In the esmates for the Post Office there are some alterations; there is an item of 400/., which has never appeared on the estimates before, for the inspection of rail steamers. Then there is the large expense of 17,000/ for the conveyance of mails. Class 7 includes the expenditnre for Mili v tia and Volunteers. The present expenditure is going on at the rate of 40,009/ a ye;ir, and it does not appear to us at all possible, taking into consideration the safety of the colony, that that can be stopped. Clhss 8 contains an item not placed on the estimates l:e rore, viz., 10,000/ for Native purposes. - The 9th or genera! class includes some expenses to the Government House at Auckland and the Government House at Wellington, the expenses of the census, and various buildings absolutely necessary for the Customs, together with contingencies of all kinds, amounting to 11,206/ Ir.s. The whole may be summarised in this way : Civil List £19.000 0 0 Permanent Charges .„ .. 30,788 3 7 Class 1 Executive .. .. 4,204 5 O 2 Log'slativo .. .. 1.2,692 10 0 3 Judicial 37,913 1 G 4 Registration .. .. 2,310 0 0 5 Customs 21,356 15 0 6 Postal 34,903 10 0 7 Militia 6,319 2 6 8 Native 10.000 0 O 1) Miscellaneous .. .. 11,200 15 0 175,779 2 7 3-Bths Customs for Provinces .. 86,250 0 0 Making a total of £2G2,029 2 7 as against a total of 262,000/. That, Sir, is generally a s'atement of the estimates which it is our intention to submit to this Committee. Mr. C. W. Richmond said he did not think the assistance rendered the Colonial Treasurer by the Auditor-General and tho Under-Treasurer ought to be attributed to feelings of personal friendship. It was rather a testimony to the smooth working of the system of responsible government; anil though the late government had incurred some odium for increasing the permanent expenditure of the colony in making those arrangements which enabled the public business to be conducted without difficulty by a new set of men, he was sure the honorable gentlemen now in office would acknowledge the great advantage resulting from those arrangements (hear). It was owing to the assistance rendered by the Auditor-General and permanent Under-Treasurer, that the honorable Colonial Treasurer had been enabled, in so short a time, <o become so familiar with the revenue and expenditure of the colony as he had shown himself to be, from the very lucid statement the Committee had' heard. He was glad to find that the appropriation to be made for the native department was on a liberal basis. lie believed that was a wise expenditure, and ho would offer no opposition to it. But it was his opinion that the constituents of the honorable Colonial Treasurer, and the public at large, would be somewhat disappointed at not finding in him the financial reformer they had expected (hear). He could not admit as an excuse the short time which the lion, gentlemen was in office, for the estimates of revenue and expenditure wera regularly published, so that any person could make himself acquainted with the financial condition of the colony, and be prepared with a comprehensive scheme of reduction of expenditure, such as it sometimes was stated it would be easy to carry out. One gentleman had stated it would be easy to reduce the expenditure by one-third, and no doubt it could be done by cutting down the salaries of those greatly overpaid officials to whom reference was often made, and effecting indiscriminate reduction right and left; and if the hon. member for Waimea (Mr. Saunders), whom he foresaw would prove the Joe Hume of the house, had been in (he honourable Colonial Treasurer's place, there was no doubt he would have played the bull in the china shop, and soon made a smash among the government officials (hear and laughter). But office had produced upon the honourable gentleman (Mr. Wood) its usual moderating influence, and he was glad to find the Government running along so smoothly on the rails the late ministry had laid down for them. A great noise was often made regarding the difference between ' ins' and 'outs,' but it was now plainly seen that the difference was not so great as gentlemen on the hustings represented. On one point, however, further explanation was needed—that was regarding the issue of exchequer bills, and the provision to be made for military expenses. He did not hear whether the Colonial Treasurer proposed to take up the present outstanding exchequer bills, and he would like some explanation regarding it. It ehould be recollected that the issue of exchequer bills as a permanent provision for expenditure was not a good financial expedient. Mr. Wood said the government proposed to issue £25,000 in exchequer bills <o give a working balance to the treasury, and £25,000 was to be issued for arming the population, and for purposes of local defence.

Mr. C. W. Richmond reimrked that there was already a working balance at the treasury from the outstanding exchequer bills. The land fund sixths account wa; secured by exchequer bills bearing interest, ami these ought to be taken up at maturity like other bills. The government had issued a portion of these bills, providing a working balance ; but if the house assented to the proposal of the Colonial Treasurer, then there would- be £50,000 of exchequer hills afloat in addition to the ,£25,000 already issued. Mr. Wood explained that the Government only contemplated issuing i>50,000 in all; £25,000 to be appropriated for redeeming the existing exchequer bills. * Mr. C. W. Richmond said that had not at first appeared. He then explained the reason why the late government had not issued the exchequer bills to the public. There was only one portion of the Colonial Tre/isuivr's statement in which he would speak in terms of absolute reprobation, and that was his comments on ihe chims lately made on the Colonial Treasury by the Commissariat Department here. His (Mr, Wood's) remarks on those exorbitant claims were, (o say the least, injudicious. (hear). The honourable Coloniul Treasurer must recollect that lie now spoko for the Colony, and his words possessed a weight not formerly attached to them. Ho (Mr. Richmond) protested against thos'i claims being mentioned in such a in ■inner as to give them any sort of validity. They were in many respects utterly and entirely inadmissible (hear). And the trifling exception the honourable 'gentleman made to the account only made matters worse. He had not heard the Colonial Treasurer take credit on behalf of the colony for the set-off

to this unreasonable claim, of the iimourit of barrack expenditure since 1858.

Mr. Wood said he had taken credit for a sum of £7000 for barrack expenditure, principally at Nauier. * .

Mr. C. W. Richmond thought the set-off was understated. The arrangements were that the colony was to be repaid all its expenditure for new barracks, and repairs of existing barracks, from the time when the troops began to be paid £5 per man; and, in his opinion, it would bo found to exceed £7000. However, (here was no doubt that the demands of the imperial Government upon the colony r\> contribution towards the military expenditure, were such as very greatly to darken their financial future. For his part he did not wish to oppose any difficulties to ministers in arranging this matter, on which he hoped the house would sink all party differences, and act together. They required to be united in the support of the government in the settlement of this account (hear). Mr. Richmond concluded by again complimenting the Colonial Treasurer upon his assuidity. Mr. Stafford said he wished to refer tr> one or two matters not referred to by his honorable friend Mr. Richmond, which appeared to him to have been rather unfairly (lie subject of inferential animadversion on the part of the honorable the Colonial Treasurer, in reference to the late government. He alluded to the expenditure for the Bay of Islands, which had been characterised as a splendid specimen of general government colonisation. He also agreed with the feeling expressed by his honorable friend the member for New Plymouth, as to the manner in which certain commissariat claims had l>een referred (to by the Colonial. Treasurer; for those claims had not been made by the Imperial Government, but had been sent in by a subordinate department in the colony, without the cognizance of, or instructions from, the imperial authorities, with whom alone the colonial government had a right to settle claims of such magnitude. Acting upon that principle he (Mr. Stafford, when Chief Secretary, had refased to go into the claims (hear). He did not recognise any claims emanating from a subordinate office without instructions from the Impend Government (hear). Among those claims which, when it fell upon his ear, had created a considerable impression on him, and also produced an impression on the house (for which purpose doubtless, it had been uttered by the Colonial Treasurer), was ' sundry, claims for clothim? Un to December 31st, 1860, £53,183 Is. 4d.' The Colonial Treasurer had separately stated that the charges for militia pay were £15,192 16s. lid and then mentioned this greater claim ; but it was his (Mr. Stafford's) opinion that a sura for pay was included in the £53,183 Is. 4d. However the £53,183 was made up of two or three extraordinaiy claims, the wildest of which perhaps' that by which the colony was asked to pay for the conveyance of rations for her Majesty's troops As well might they be asked to feed'the troops at Otahuhu at this moment as be asked to pay for the conveyance of file supplies sent to the camp at Waitara (hear). When the Tasmanian Maid and Wonga Wonga were chartered to cany supplies to the Waitara, he (Mr. Stafford) protested as soon as he had official intimation of the circumstances against the colony being called upon to pay this outlay, urging that the colony was no more responsible for it than for the cost of land transit, such as the hire of a waggon or bullock dray! Those protests were forwarded by the Governor to General Pratt, and were still in existence. That claim for the hire of steamers was therefore to be eliminated from the £53,183 (hear). There were other claims in that item for articles called' stores, 1 and it turned out that three of those items had been paid, while the fourth had never been supplied at all. That would remove about £6000 more out of the £53,183, which, with the £11,000 odd for steam purposes, would reduce it very considerably. The Colonial Treasurer had conveyed to the house and the country the impression (and he thought intentionally) that the present stata of things was calculated to destroy the energy of the country, financially speaking, "for a long time to come. That he utterly denied. The honorable gentleman at the head of the Government, however, might congratulate himself on the fact that his financial projects were not on this occasion, as they had on a previous occasion been, liable to the imputation of being the finances of youth and hope. He thought rather that the remark of the honorable member for Omata more truly characterised what emanated from the ministerial table, when he said at the formation of the present ministry, that this was to be the 'government of all the croakers' (laughter), and the statement of the Colonial Treasurer was consistent with a croaking policy, which was intended to frighten the colony in the direction of a certain general policy which they desired to act upon (hear). lie (Mr. Stafford) admitted the liability of the colony to defray the militia expenses in times of peace; but when called out by the Crown on active service, then the militia was changed from a colonial peace establishment into an imperial force, the entire expense of which should be borne by the Imperial Government (hear). It was not right, therefore, for the Colonial Treasurer to say that the militia expenditure was at the rate of £40,000 a year. The expenses which made up this total were not monies paid from the Colonial Treasury out of the revenue which the colony supplied ; as well might be said that they were liable for the £400,000 a year, which was very likely being expended at Otahuhu. Ho then intimated that, with his Excellency's consent, he would place all he private memorandums bearing on this matter, that had passed between the late government and his Excellency, at the disposal of the ministry, that they might be able to ascertain clearly the precise state of tho case.

Mr. Wahd was glad to hear the. sentiments expressed on both sides of the house, that the misfortunes of the colony and its pecuniary difficulties, in consequence of the native disturbances, ought not to be made use of for the purpose of reproach and recrimination between the old government and the new (hear). The unhappy circumstances of the time required united exertion, and forbade disunion among sensible men ; and he hoped that, therefore, while disaster to the settlers and a heavy burden upon the colony were impending, nothing would be done on either side to make the :ask of arrangement more difficult (hear). The dispute which had just taken place between members of the old ministry and the new as to which government was most active, and which official was most remiss in denying the liability, of the colony for certain items of war expenditure, and saddling all possible charges on the mother country, not only was unworthy of the house and the colony, but. was an impolitic tone to adopt in treating with the Imperial Government.' He believed that tor the good of both islands, the limit of the capability to pay ought to be ascertained at once. He could not assent to go on drawing to any extent from the Commissariat chest with a guarantee of repayment, the end of which would be the entanglement of the colony in an enormous debt spread over an interminable series of years. But he wished particularly to urge this on behalf of the Middle Island, which neither had any necessity for war expenditure, nor derived any advantage, direct or indirect, from it. It could not be demanded that the Southern Provinces should lay such a burden upon themselves as would impoverish them for fifty years to come. It could be no part of the policy either of the colony or of the home government, to swallow up the Middle Island in saving the North. He was quite sure that no one in the house would mistake his meaning when he said, on behalf of the colonists ot the Middle Island, that they would not consent to be robbed of their inheritance. What they could do they would ; they would not shrink from taking a full share m the difficulty which had fallen on the colony of which they formed a part (hear, hear). But a lino must be drawn (hear), and beyond that line, which should bo thu limit of their capability, he would protest against their being asked to go ; even this was the nature of a free gift, and not to be demanded as a right; and he did not say that the Middle Island would not ask for some boon or recompense in exchange. He again urged the house to View the 6ubject in the

light which he saw it in, and by a prompt announcement of the liability which the colony could and would undertake, to save both North and Middle Island from incurring an iufolerab'k and interminable burden (cheers).

Mr. Wood moved as a matter of form that tbo Committee proceed with the consideration -of clas>:: one.

Mr. Fox moved, as an amendment, that the chairman do now report progress, and ask leave U sit again to-morrow.—Agreed to. House resumed. MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR.

The Speaker announced that he had received . message from tho Governor. Message No. 6 stated that the documents called for the olher day on the Waitara question had already been laid on the table ot the house. Mr. Carleton requested the Government to specify the documents alluded to as being on the taldt?; he had not been able to discover any such documents. He thought that the message could scarely be considered as an answer to the address. Mr. ManteJjL, Minister for Native Affairs, referred the honorable member to E No. 4. The particular document callcd*for in the address was not known to exist.

Message No. 7 was in reply to Mr. Bell's motion, requesting a certain document to be translated and circulated among the principal native chiefs, and conveying his Excellency's concurrence therein.

Message No. 8 transmitted his Excellency's approval of certain rules and regulations submitted to him by the Speaker.