GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Colonist, Volume IV, Issue 398, 16 August 1861, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Tuesday, July 16. The Native Minister laid on the table the copy •of a letter addressed to his Excellency by the Rev. T. Buddie on the 'present crisis;' also papers relating to the taking away of a half-caste child. Mr. Cbacboft Wilson, C.8., moved for leave to bring in a bill to provide for the making and

maintaining fences.—Bill received, tead a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time this day week. Mr. Jollie moved that a respectful address he presented to his Excellency the Governor for a copy of a letter addressed to him by his Lordship the Bishop of New Zealand and other clergymen, on the 4th instant, relating to the position of native affairs.—Agreed to. Mr. Jollie moved that the correspondence between his Lordship the Bishop of New Zealand and the honorable the Colonial Secretary on matters relating to the natives of New Zealand, already laid on the table of this house, be printed, together with the first part of that correspondence as communicated to the House of Representatives last session.—Agreed to. Mr. Weld gave notice for a select committee to investigate the charge made against the late Colonial Treasurer by Dr. Featherston.

[Mr. Fox's ministerial statement appeared in our last issue.]

Mr. Cableton asked Mr. Fox what the purpose of the Government was relative to the pre-emption Land Claims.

Mr. Fox said the attention of the Government had not been drawn to that subject yet, but he might venture to inform the honorable member that they would be inclined to give a most liberal consideration to those claims.

Mr. Stafford asked whether two gentlemen of the ministry, who were Superintendents of provinces, were still acting in that capacity—or whether they intended to retain the two offices. Mr. Fox would give the same reply to that question that the honorable member for Nelson city gave when he himself was similarly situated on a former occasion. • The honorable gentlemen would continue to hold their offices till the end of the present session, and at the close they would be at liberty to consider whether they should resign one or the other office. (Laughter.) Mr. Bell, as Chairman of the Committee, apologised for not being ready with the report of the Select Committee on Military Defence, and asked for an extension of time for another fortnight. —Granted.

The second reading of Prevention of Importation of Deseased Cattle Bill was made an order for the next day. Mr. R. Wood moved the second reading of the New Zealand Bank Bill.

Mr. Firth said he did not know exactly how the matter stood, as he had been in charge of the Bill.

Mr. Wood had been speaking with that honorable member and the member for City of Auckland East a few minutes before and understood it was their wish that he (Mr. Wood) should move the second reading.

Mr. Russell did not so understand ir. Mr. Firth had not heard such a thing mentioned.

Mr. Wood said perhaps the honorable gentlemen would conduct the Bill through the Committee.

Mr. Firth was prepared to go on with the Bill.

Bill read a second time and ordered to be committed presently. Mr. Williamson moved the second reading of the Bank of New South Wales Bill. The honorable member was proceeding to speak, when he was interrupted byMr. Stafford, who observed that it was the New Zealand Bank Bill that was before the house (laughter).

Mr. Williamson thought the honorable member's mind was a little confused to-day in his new position (hear, hear); he had not observed that the last motion had been put to the house. Mr. Williamson having shown that the bill had gone through a careful consideration in the Select Committee, moved its second reading. Mr. W. C. Richmond said that the Government were supposed to watch such bills as the present for the interest of the public, and the circumstance of two private bills being moved in such rapid succession by members of th# Government had caused his honorable friend the member for Nelson, to make the mistake which he had when the honorable member for Auckland was speaking.

Bill read a second time.

Mr. Williamson then stated that there appeared to be some objection to a member of the Government proceeding with this bill, he had transferred the charge to his honorable friend on his left, Mr. Brandon.

Mr. Brandon moved that the bill be committed presently.—Agreed to. Mr. Bell moved the second reading of the Otago and Southland Public Debt Bill.—-Bill read a second time.

Mr. Bell moved that it be committed presently, Agreed to.

Mr. Fox moved that the Registration of Electors Act Amendment Bill which was an ore'er of the clay for further consideration in committee, and the Native Crown Titles Bill, down for a second reading be postponed till to-morrow. Mr. Fox asked the members of the late Government whether they intended to take charge of those Government Bills introduced by themselves.

Mr. Stafford replied that the bills were handed over to the control of the present Government ; he reserved to himself the right as an individual member to take his own course if he found it necessary. Mr. Saunders had suggested alterations to the late Government with regard to these billSj which they had agreed to consider, and he desired to know if the new Government would promise to do the same.

Mr. Fox suggested that the honorable member for Waimea would favor him with the alterations he would like to have made.

Motion agreed to. On the motion of Mr. Fox the Naturalization Bill and the Resident Magistrate's Ordinance Bill were read a second time and ordered to be committed to-morrow.

On the motion of Mr. Fox the order for the Becond reacting of the Bankruptcy Bill was discharged.

Mr. Eyes moved the second reading of the Naval and Military Settlere (Marlborough) Bill. Mr. Ormond wished the provisions of the Act to be extended to Hawke's Bay. The Speaker said it was not in order to make the alteration at the present stage of the Bill; the honorable member could move tho amendment when it was in committee.

Bill read a second time.

Mr. Eyes moved that it be committed presently. —Agreed to.

Mr. Fox moved that the Civil Service Superanuation Act Amendment Bill be postponed till to-morrow.

On the motion of Mr. Saundeiis it was ordered to be printed, and Mr. Fox-extended the time of postponement till Friday. ' On the motion of Mr. Fox the House went into committee of the whole on the New Zealand Bank Bill, Bank of New South Wales, the Otago and Southland Public Debt Apportionment Bill, and the Naval and Military Settlers (Marlborough) Bill.

The Naval Military Settlers Bill was reported without amendment; read a third time, passed, and sent to the other House, praying concurrence therein.

The Otago and Southland Bill, New Zealand Bank Bill, and the Bank of New Soutli Wales Bill, were reported with amendments, which were severally ordered to be considered tomorrow. The House adjourned.

Wednesday, J uly 17.

Mr. C. Ward took the oath, and his seat for Lyttelton.

Petitions presented, papers laid on the table, and questions answered. The Land Revenue Appropriation Act, 1858, Amendment Act was read a first time.

Mr. Fox. and Mr. J. W. Richmond's names were added to the Military Defence Committee. Mr- Domett brought up the report of the Dun Mountain Railway Bill.

On the motion of Mr. D. Bell, further leave of absence was granted to Mr. Gillies. The Debtors and Creditors Composition Bill was read a first time.

Mr. Weld moved for a Select Committee to inquire into the diaries brought against Mr. C. W. Richmond by Dr. Feathcrston. Dr. Featiierston seconded the motion, which was carried.

The Report on the New Zealand Bank Bill was received and adopted. The Bank of New South Wabs Bill was read a third time and ordered to be sent to the Legislative Council.

The Otago and Southland Public Debt Bill was recommitted in order that some errors might be corrected.

The Native Crown Titles Bill was read a second time.

The Naturalisation Bill was postponed for the prtsent, on the motion of Mr. Fox. Mr. Fox moved that the House resolve into a Committee of the whole on the Otago and Southland Public Debt Apportionment Bill, the Resident Magistrates' Ordinance Amendment Bill, and the Registration of Electors Act Amendment Bill. In reference to the last Bill, Mr. Saunders moved an amendment with the view of removing a difficulty which had stood in the way of registration, and thereby causing great disfranchisement in the outlying districts. The former bill required the name of a person wishing to be placed on the roll to be attested by a Magistrate, and there being no Magistrate at hand caused many to allow themselves to be disfranchised, sooner than go, in many cases, five or six miles, to get his name attested. Mr. Saunders thought that any elector on the roll was sufficient, inasmuch as there was a penalty of £10 on false return.

A long conversational discussion took place in •which a variety of amendments were submitted. The disposition of the Committee appeared to be to make the bill as liberal as possible, rendering every facility for registration, and at the same time guarding against opening any door through which the rolls could be again corrupted.

The Chairman was ordered to report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow.

The Lost Land Orders Bills was read a second time.

Thursday, July 18.

Mr. O'Niell asked the Colonial Treasurer wlibther any alteration was to be made in the Customs Tariff. Mr. Wood replied that on Tuesday next ministers had promised to lay their financial statement before the House, when this subject would be explained. The imprisonment for Debt Bill was read a first time. A long and lively discmsion took place on Mr. D. Bell's motion that ' the Memorandum of. his Excellency the Governor be translated into Maori, and sent to the principal chiefs.' Most of the members joined in this debate, which was caused by the absence of the Native Minister. Mr. C. W. Richmond accused Mr. Fox of being the mouthpiece of the Ministry, and said that the Native Minister was a very ' dark man.' Mr. Richmond likened Mr. Fox to Patter in Charles Matthews' farce of 'Patter v. Clatter,' in which the former had all the talk. Mr. Fox retorted and si id that ' inasmuch as none of the present Ministers held three offices like the honorable gentleman the member for New Plymouth, they would not require to be always making long speeches after 'Patter and Clatter' example set by that honorable gentleman. Mr. Stafford likewise tried to be lively, but it was a heavy affair. Mr. Williamson got into a fix by not allowing Mr. Bell to explain certain matters in the course of his speech. Mr. Saunders said, as one who had expressed a hope that if the hon. member for Rangitikei undertook to form a Ministry, he would not choose men who had no other recommendation than a forty-tongue talking power, he was glad to find that he had chosen a Native Minister who was admitted by the late Ministry to be so well fitted for all the principal duties of his office, and was only complained of because he had not yet inflicted any very long-winded speech upon that house. He only hoped that he would long continue to deserve that complaint, if he could be said to deserve it already, and if he could always manage to give the house as much information in ten minutes as some hon. gentlemen would do in two hours, he should always consider that to be a strong recommendation to him for the office he now holds (hear, hear). He thought a gentleman who had only just entered on the duties of a very important office showed his /good sense by devoting himself assiduously to the quiet application which must be necessary to enable any man to grapple all the difficulties of such a position before he attempted to occupy the time of that House, without giving it any information. He could not give a better illustration of the manner in which time could be wasted, when hon. members undertook to talk about what they knew nothing of, than the speech they had just listened to from the hon. member for Nelson (Mr. Stafford), (hear, hear), who had evidently never heard the speech of the hon. Native Minister, which he had undertaken to criticise. That hon. member had just told the house that the reason assigned by the Native Minister for voting against the reply to the message was, that he did not wish to commit himself, whereas, the reason which the Native Minister did assign was exactly the reverse. (Laughter). Mr. Dick, in speaking of the Native Minister said thete was more to be said in his favor than Mr. Domett in a previous debate had said of his predecessor, that he had great aptitude in catching Native dogs (roars of laughter). Mr. Domett: The hon. gentleman is grossly and outrageously mis-stating what I said. I suppose, however, it is a little retaliation for my laughing at his Jews-harps. (renewed laughter.) Mr.'Dick begged the "hon. gentleman's pardon if he had misquoted his remarks, but so he understood them. He hoped, however, something better could be said regarding the late Native Minister. The present Native Minister, it was well known, had, perhaps as long as any gentleman in that house been in communication with the Natives, (hear), and he was glad to hear that even the opposition admitted his ability for the office to which he had just been appointed (hear, hear). Mr. Carleton had never heard his Excellency's rectitude of intention impugned in that House. The complaint was that he had been badly advised and misled. And now, when those who had given the bad advice were told of it, they first endeavored to direct the shafts aimed at themselves against the Governor, and then made believe to ward them off from him (hear). Whenever they were assailed, they raised the cry of 'Not fair, an attack upon the Governor,' and immediacelv proceeded to defend him instead of themselves (hear).

Mr. Mantell said that having had the misfortune to come into the house,when the chief part of the discussion was over, he would hardly be expected to take advantage of this occasion to give that exposition of policy required of him. He had hoped that in the merely consultative position which he now held, he should have been allowed to pursue a course of silence. He had hitherto preserved silence, because he was diffident as to his capacity to address such an assemblage as the present. But as it appeared to be desired that lie should address the house, he should have the greatest pleasure in doing so at a fitting opportunity. There were two or three questions which he might take the present opportunity to refer to. Certain references had been mads to his personal ideas on what the treatment of the natives should be, which he might advert to without committing in any way his colleagues, the Governor, or any one but himself. In the first place ho was sorry that his explanation of his 'no' was not complete or satisfactory to lion, members. He had intended it should be both. He would, however, repeat his explanation. Whereas there had been, on the first resolution submitted to the house, certain double constructions and all sorts of interpretations put out of doors, with some of which he could not possibly concur, he resolved that, should the address in reply to his Excellency's request for ex-

planation be not thoroughly definite, he would not give his assent to it. According to what he conceived,to be the simple interpretation of that address, and what he believed to be his Excellency's interpretation of it, he was prepared to subscribe to it freely, but he had simply said no, as an insignificant ordinary member of the house, because he felt conscientiously bound to do so, to protect himself from committing himself to any construction that he might deem a false one.' This was all, and he hoped the explanation was satisfactory (hear, hear). There was another thing he had to protest against, and he hoped he should hear no more of it. In taking the position which he had taken, and on«j which he had not th« least idea of occupying when he came up to this house, he was actuated by a simple sense of public duty (hear, hear). He deprecated any comparisons between himself and his predecessors—gentlemen for whom he had the highest respect; and he trusted he might leave his position with the same respect from members of the house as they had (hear, hear). Ho would suggest to the hon. member for Nelson that if he would take some future occasion to give notice that he required a full statement of the Native Minister's opinions on Maori matters, he (Mr. M.) would, with the permission of his colleagues, and pp.rhaps without, give a full and honest statement of his opinions on that subject, so far as they were matured. At present, they might simply be summed up in five words, * Honesty is the best policy' (cheers). Mr. D. Bell replied, and Mr. Williamson explained and apologised, and the motion was agreed to.

The Dun Mountain Railway Bill was read a second time.

Mr. Carleton moved for a copy of the 'official report of the investigation of title at the Waitara up to the time of the interruption of it.' In doing so he should endeavor to earn the approbation of the honorable member for Waimea, by using as few words as possible and those strictly to the pur-

pose. Mr. Bell recommended the honourable member to withdraw the motion because it would cause a discussion on the Wuitara question. Besides, he did not think that such a document was in existence.

Mr. Cauleton, in reply, said that he could not agree to withdraw his motion; he felt it a duty to press it. The honorable member for Wallace had objected to it lest it should revive discussion on the Waitara question, but had admitted at the same time that the motion was in itself perfectly unexceptionable. But, if unexceptionable, what need of any discussion at all about the matter? Discussion was only needed where there were reasons for refusal. He had always found great difficulty in obtaining complete information about the Waitara question. The late Government had sent down very voluminous papers to the house; but they were useless to him, for they told him little that he did not know before. What was worth knowing he had been obliged to gather for himself. He would not rest until he had brought to light every fact connected with the origin of ths war. The honorable member for had expressed a desire that the Waitara question should be ' buried for ever.' But he would tell that honorable member what could not be buried for ever, and that was the imputations and charges brought by himself, among others, against persons holding a high position in the colony,—charges which would yet have to be substantiated or retracted. He himself had not been mealy-mouthed in discussing the war, and, if he had said anything in error, would readily retract it; but it was first necessary that all the facts should be ascertained. He should have to move for many other papers yet; he might be refused, but he should take care to know who were willing and who were not. The question was then pur, and a division called for, which resulted as follows :—

Ayes 28, Noes 13. The motion was consequently carried.

Mr. Mantell said there was a rumor about that Wireinu Tatnihana Tarapipipi was coming to Auckland, and he (Mr. M.) wished to put a limit to too sanguine hope being formed of its result. There was some probability that that chief might come to Auckland, or towards Auckland, and confer with his Excellency, but he (Mr. M.) had no power to hint to the house what possible results might follow from that. Gentlemen might come to Auckland with very different ideas in their heads; and Wiremu Tamihana might come to a discussion with the Governor with ideas of his own. The report of his coining being abroad in Auckland might lead people to believe that he had already yielded to the Governor's terms. Such could not yet be said to be the case, but it was to be hoped that when he had listened to reason he might do so.

Mr. Stafford said it was reported that documents, both official and non-official, of more or less importance, had been received, addressed to his Excellency or to members of the Government, documents of considerable interest as expressing the native mind at the present time. He now wished to ask the Native Minister if there were such documents, and if they were of such a character that they could be laid on the table of the house without inconvenience to the public interest.

Mr. Mantell said such documents had been received, addressed to members of the present Government, to persons not in the Government, and also to the Governor. Only the non-official E art of the correspondence had yet come into his ands, and he thought it better to defer communicating their contents to the house till he had an opportunity of studying the official also.