PUBLIC MEETING.

Colonist, Volume III, Issue 220, 29 November 1859, Page 2

PUBLIC MEETING.

A. Meeting to»k place at the Odd Fellows' Hall on Friday evening last, for the purpose of considering the necessary subjects to, be embodied in a Memorial to his Excellency the Governor on arrival at Nelson. G. White, Esq. being called to the chair pointed out, the necessity for having the various resolutibns properly, canvassed and asked the meeting to treat them with the consideration they deserved. He would call upon Mr. W. L. Wrey to speak to the first resolution. ~..... ;

Mr. W. L. Wrey said he had much pleasure in responding to that call, upon a matter of such vital importance. The law of debtor and creditor had occupied public-attention for some years, and very necessarily so, for the law of former years could •be characterised as nothing less than inhuman. The resolution em body ing? ;th is question proposed the Establishment of an Insolvent Gicyiirt for the protection of honest but unfortunate men. The bankrupt was in a very different position to the insolvent : in the first case a certain amount of trouble had to be borne, and there it ended; but the insolvent was a perfect slave, without the least chance of escape, and liable to be pounced upon at any moment, and his difficulties were repeated and prolonged without being able to avoid it. The law had previously been so mude that it must have considered that the creditor was honest and the debtor was a rogue; whereas, he thought that they halved between them, for it was bad creditors that made bad debtors. At all event 3 the subject was of the utmost importance, and he trusted that something would be speedily done to remedy the existing state of things. A. meeting like the present only expressed the feelings of one Province; and shouldtliere be an alteration in the law on this question it would be of general application, he therefore hoped that all the other Provinces would .do their utmost to urge upon the members of the General Assembly to diligently watch the bill. He thought the conduct of these members had been somewhat too careless or hasty, their efforts having been apparently directed to* make a number of bills that nobody knew anything about;.he trusted that in this important question the other Provinces would do their utmost to do away with the power of tyrannical creditors and the devices of a fraudulent debtor. The resolution was as follows :—

i That your memorialists have heard with much satisfaction that a measure wilt be introduced into.the General Assembly at their next sitting, by which it is proposed that an Insolvent Debtor's Court should be established in this colony. Feeling the urgencyof an. immediate alteration of the present system, which in effect causes a perpetual imprisonment to an honest debtor, we respectfully beg your Excellency to give .this matter such consideration as may lead to the earliest legislation on this subject. Mr. John Carter seconded the resolution. Mr. M. LrGifTBAND suggested that the resolution should shew the necessity for cheapness in such a Court, as'in such cases the lawyers would most probably get the oyster while everybody else had -the shell's. '

The Chairman, put the resolution, which was carried unanimously. ~......■ Mr. J. L. Bailey was next called to propose the resolution standing in his name, but not answering :— ; Mr. Crojkpton rose to explain, that the resolution respecting the District Cqqrij had bee,n revised and altered by Mr. Bailey;'and he thought that he ought to have been there to spealc to it, as he (Mr. Crompton) had understood he would have been; but rather than the resolution, should fall to the gi'ound, he would in the absence of that gentleman offer a few remarks on the subject. Any one attending the District Court might observe that it was imperative to'employ a lawyer"because a written defence must be put in at a certain time previous to the hearing, it must be carefully written but, and invested with all the technicalities of the law, and if these requirements were, not met the case was lost for not entering a defence, in fact, a verbal defence was useless. The expenses were also ' enormous, and seeing the long array of figures in the shape of costs that attached to the simplest case, afforded ample grounds for urging some material alteration in those respects. As he had before stated he was not prepared on this subject, but he trusted he might be followed by" those who were better versed in it than himself, he would read the proposed resolution :^— ' '■ ' .

That the regulations o f the recently established District Court are, in the opinion of your memorialists, too complicated and expensive, inasmuch as they necessitate the employment of a -professional man to conduct the cases flf ejther plaintiff or defendant, and the? therefore pray that'your Excellency will cause an amended act to be introduced at the next sitting of the General Assembly for the purpose of rendering proceedings in tije District ,Courtim>re simpjb and less expensive.

Seconded by Mr. T. Askew, Mr. Webb considered that it would be much better to. ask for the Coiirt to be done away \vith altogether; ' Thewhole of tlje legislation whether General or Provincial, entailed a great deal too much expense, it all went to'create offices. He believed the business of that Court could be done by the «ludge of the Supreme Court, if his visits were Jn'o^e frequent: At one"time it was a matter of much difficulty to pass frpnvone part.of the country to another, but as that ejrists no longer, and-by the aid afforded by our inter-provincial steamers, any one can calculate to a day as to when they, would arrive at any part "of the colony, he would, much rather, propose that the Governor should be memorialised to do away with the Court altogether. Mr. Keeling-§aid he agreed entirely with' the resolution, and if I>« went to the General Assembly he would speajtt his mindfreely on the point; tb.ere were nO requirements foi' a District Judge ; it .- appeared to hinirih&t'suck anpoiiitu?ent? had been made because there wei'e "many magistrates who were unable to perform the duties, but that was where the alteration was required, Our worthy Resident Magistrate had ; once , performed those duties most ably and to the satisfaction of all, and if they' had^similaiiy capable Resident Magistrates all over the country, there would be no necessity for such a Court, r These duties could be performed monthly by qualified persons, he could not agree with Mr, Webb with respect to the duties being fulfilled by the Judge of the Supreme Court. ...It vvould not he possible for him to go round every month, but he with h|m that the District Court should be 86ne away with, and if Resident Magistrates were not capable of the duties^ they ought to be dismissed. -./ . i •Tlie resolution.was.Jhen.put^^and carried. ,'.?■.-, i .'Mr. Millar ;said he.ii.ad,,to propose that something sliould be done to render the. transfer iofprouerty more simple and less expensive. There ,was*a'B^sle)i»,i.n eKist'ence at Adelaide which he fhoueht wouiS'be^jpp^Gable to us instead of the n-^.orioHflr defective1 ;j*bi4'' .o.bj;ect|onable course tMt WkSa^-^esent: fbllpwedr- %ftef Stofte Wher remarks he Jroposea :'^ ;] ; ! ' That your memorialists'find t&tt^C c!^ fc r Yrtr of conveyancing as necessary for securing a 1;^ 'tp purchased freehold property is;to'6 r cumbrous allu. . expensive; they. thereiTore pray, for the introduction Of some measure whereby Govern«\ent caa ■■grant • a valid title by a simpie:registration. ,■; : ,■

_■, 3MLr. Ckojipton seconded^ and sa«i .that Jie had a work by Torrens in his hand- that contained a full deswiptioin; of- thev^Ldelaidc! system-; it' appeared most applicable for ourselves, and wojtld tend to' do aw#y,;>vi.thjxwgh perplexity that exists through '^ie< complex .and cumbrous^ system ntw- used, wliicli proved how expedient it: was to amend the Jaw on this subject, which Lord St. Leonards

speaks of as "a. splendid code of jurisprudence." The present system, makes the Crown grant intact, and where portions of land therein mentioned are sold, each person purchasing, to have a valid title, must have a deed to force the possessor to produce the Crown grant when he may requite it, in this way the quantity of documents in the transfer of land becomes immense. The speaker then quoted from the work in his hand the system advocated, which requires nothing more than the certificate of the Registrar General to the transfer of landed property. After further quotations from the same work, he said that he viewed the question as of so much, importance that he'h&d much pleasure •in seconding the resolution, and hoped that others present would also speak to the question.

Mr. Kellino cordially agreed with the resolution. He believed it was made to feed the lawyers, it was a nuisance. In no other country" besides England did such a complex system exist. He knew for a fact, that a gentleman only a few years in the colony having transactions in land, had a wheelbarrow fulj of documents. There were some properties he-knew of where 40 documents had to be inspected before it could be. known whether the person hell a valid title or not; such a system could not go on, and if he should be elected he should support, such a resolution at the General Assembly. ....

Mr. C. Elliott moved that an alteration should be made in the wording of the resolution, that from the word " whereby" it should continue as follows: —"a transfer of property can-be effected by a simple process of-rregistration." He thought property should he transferred by registration, and' the wording of the resolution required altering, as it did not refer to the transfer but to the original grant, which when once issued the Government had nothing more to do with. The system now complained of he had for many years thought but a robbery of the public, for his part he thought he was somewhat of Jack Cade's opinion, and would "hang all the lawyers." At all events,'if we looked upon them as necessary evils, we should take care not to let them dip "their hands in our pockets too deeply. In the early days.of this colony there was a brevity to meet their requirements to- a certain extent, which was allowed by some portion of the Act, but the lawyers had taken care not to notice it, as they charge by the number of words. The evil had been the cause of much effort in England to get rid of it, but. of course it had been resisted by the lawyers, who proved too strong for the proposed reform, but in this colony it ought to be remedied at once, and if it could* be effected at all, the present time was better than 20 years hence for the attempt. Mr. T. Askew thought that'the meeting ought to have the opinion of the.-membersof"theGeneral Assembly on the points under question ; he saw Mr. Curtis present, perhaps he would'give his views on these matters.

• Mr. H. E; Curtis said he hiEid heard the foregone; resolutions and had intended at the close to nave; summarised them, and made some remarks. With; respect to the resolutions passed, he. ..would say, that the firsf, referring to the. Jaw of Debtor and Creditor had been specially referred to by.him at the General Assembly last session ; he believed it was their intention of amending those laws, but he had proposed that they should pass a simple, teni-j porary act until that should be effected. Th&Banks1 had stated that we were better off without an1 Insolvent Court, but there were hardships on both sides under the present system • that "should be, amended- ;His suggestion had been objected to by the General Government because so many acts had been passed last session. The next resolution he thought should have referred more especially to the regulations of the District Court, as they were allowed to be of ;a:far more complex kind than was anticipated; he thought the act contemplated a much more : siraple process than had been made of it; lie would have no objection to suggest an act for the simplification of th&se regulations.' The conveyancing of land questionhadalso been agitated; in \ 1856 strong efforts were niacje. by members to get, the Government to simplify it somefvhat injaccor-: dance with a little'work published at that time f at! Auckland, but the Government had considered that it would not work, hip believed 'however, that, at the next meeting of the General Assembly it was their intention to pass a more simple system for the conveyancing of land. ' . . ! The CHAiujtfANthen puttheresolutiohasamended which was carried unanimously. ..'.." .. • Mr. Elliott proposed the next resolution. That in consequence of the present unguarded state of the Port and City Of Nelson, it has been, thought desirable by many of the inhabitants of the province, that a small battery should be erected on some one of the heights commanding the entrance.of th§'harbour, and it being proposed that in addition. to volunteers working the above mentioned battery, a Volunteer Rifle Corps should be established; we respectfully ask from your Excellency if such proceedings would meet with your sanction, and what, assistance, in the way of Ordnance, small arms, &c, we might look forward to from the General Government of this colony, after the regular enrolment of sufficient memberslo constitute an active and efficient body, of men.

The resolution had been put into his hands, aDd its general tenor he would warmly support; some kind of organization for self-defence lie liad always thought highly requisite, and he had been at a loss to account for the apathy with which the subject was regarded. If'there was nothing in the present state of Europe to give immediate cause for alarm, it certainly suggested the necessity for preparation, as on the arrival of any mail it would excite no $urprjse; to bear that an European war had broken out and that England had taken part in it, What-would tbVen be tlj'eir position? without preparation for defence, and without arms? why any small body of n>enfi;oiti an enemy s vessel might land whenever they pleased, and the town would be wholly at their mercy. They had plenty of hands to oppose such a force, but an organization to .enable theniio do so, and four guns judiciously placed would prevent a vessel coming so near the town as to be: able'to do it injury* -After the warning given to the colony by the Home Government that they must protect-them-selyfs, jths .conduct of the Local Governtoent which have' diseouhieiiattwjd a]l efforts for self-defence was highly reprehensible; Mr. Kklling saul" the meeting appeared very cool upon'what seemed to him' to be a very important subject. The tovyn had to fear.from such an attack more than tlje country, The French would lilcely be involved in war with n3,snd them was nothing: to prexent^ their; annihilating the.defenceless toWns one-after • the%ther^ -"He thought with a militia of' 300 men aud two1 batteries, we could oppose the of Frencty sailors. We ought to loofc to ourselves. , Mr. Webb said the colonies had. been sufficientlywarned wi'tli respect to arming, and those who were now cool wou}& doubtless upon the. approach of danger be the .first to ask why proper precaution had not been, :take.n before. Some 6ay we should: trust, m Providence* but he thought that.meant helping ourselves. He thought that all the young.men in these colonies should.be taught'the use ofoarms, and compulsorily so if need be. • ' . ' ; Mr. Cbomptojj said that the enforcement of the Militia Act would- most probably be the effect of Buch carelessness with respect to the volunteer system. The idea of attack of- any kind appeared so remote to some, and we were so unused to see armed forces of any kind that the harbor-master in his code of signals had omitted one for a man-of-war altogether; and a soldier in Nelson was one of the funniest things possible (laughter.) He believed that if they passed that resolution, and tlie igQfeiWMnp replietj to it favourably, that th|re j would be r'o aifflciilly experienced in getting up a | corpsl'- '■ •■ .&■. >: l! '•'■ i; *i'l "V" ■■'■■■ 1. Mr, Miltjah said flint a* lie had been one who hirf iXv^ '^dliiii^elf iivthe'questiori ou a previous hart iiueie^.., :— -v , v^n fho apathy with occasion, he must remai,. ~ - —u^i^^l which those around him seemed to treat.v, v. :by their remarks lie could only come to the conclusion that they had not the courage to state their : views on t|ie |übject, and that there were-many of them who forgot tlieir duty j<o' their fatherland; and their fellow-settlers,' and were' perfectly caveless wliether 'their homes were protected or not.'

Mr. Gabteh spoke to the .necessity of having men efficiently grained ia the ari^ <$ gunnery, and

instanced ourwant of, knowledge by an accident that occurred at tlie firing of a gun upon a public occasion. . >

Mr. I. M. HiLLsaid his words .would most, probably have huj; little weight because it Was known that he disapproved of, all war. But why .should the working classes be called upon to join together for such a purpose. Let those wh'o^had something to lose do so if they chose. Let, the landed property men band together to protect what they had. A great deal had been said about an irruption upon us, but if we, were not worth the attention of the Home Government would the French think we were ? He thought in case of attack the best plan would be a passive rather than an active resistance, and if such a thing did happen what would be got by it. They might take some old iron pots from one, or a bag of flour from another, and for his part he would rather have the whole of his shop ransacked tlian one life sacrificed.

Mr. C. Elliott said tlie sentiments expressed ,by the last • speaker were so opposed to our national, characteristic, that he did not hesitate to say those sentiments were a disgrace to an Eng lishman, and if such reasoning were followed out. must end.in the ruin of any country that adopted Mr. Kelling said he was about to make similar remarks. Such an argument was too foolish for serious notice. Mr. Hill had said that the landed proprietors had most cause to resist, but the land could not be blown up!. Mr. ; Hill's door would be a much more likelyimark.-'(Laughter1.) Mr. M'GREGoRhad no doubt that the resolution if carried out, would be the means of placing some nice little sum on the Estimates, for-some ineligible piece of ground for the purpose assigned. We are a peace-loving people and would turn our swords into ploughshares and our spears into reapinghookg. It was to be remembered that those-who raise-up soldiers use them against the liberty of the subject. ; There.was no danger to be apprehended from foreign foes; if it was a native invasion to be provided against it would be a different matter.

The resolution-was then put and lost. Mr. I. M. Hill then proposed the following:—

Lastly, we beg to record our conviction the the-Act allowing the provinces in their present thinly inhabited state, to be sub-divided intoanujiber of small provinces, is detrimental to the welfare of the colony; and that in the case of an overplus population, such division should only take place at the desire of the majority of the population. With respect to the dismemberment of the Wairau.from Nelson, we feel assured that upon close examination, even the requirements of the Act have not been complied with, and the whole proceedings have been illegal. '' ' :

There might bemuch difference of opinion: on the subject, but it was not then a question of right Qr wrong, for legislation had done it for us without asking the greater portion of those ! interested about the matter, and, who had it been done by and who had been.most instrumental in bringing it about? why a few hungry loafers, hangers-on to society for place and pocket. Some one of them goes to the Government and says " elect me Superintendent and I'll,do it for .nothing/ that was for the benefit of himself and friends.. With respect to the illegal part of the proceeding, he and others thought.that part was in,their.having taken their names from both the old and new lists. The speaker then referred to the number of members returned for the various districts, and concluded by saying that it was not known how .our members voted at Auckland upon the Bill, which' allowed it; most likely all of them did, but there were no documents yet that would show.

Mr. C. Elliott said that the right of the petitioners for separation- was undoubted, although the means taken to procure it were questionable, but it was impossible to deny Local Self-government to the people of. the Wairau, when we had resorted ourselves to the very same thing. When we asked for-it, did the Auckland people say we had no right to it V-aiid would :we then make an exception in their caseXnThe benefits they would derive from sepktafipH -^vfefi^hff- pfopleliatical, but they had a similar" right to demand it as ourselves if they thought {proper; he considered it exceedingly bad taste, to accuse those who had taken it in hand of selfish motives.

Mit- Curtis said he would inform Mr. Hill of what he could have learnt himself at any Literary Institute if he had been anxious to know, that all the Nelson members voted for the bill, he had done so himself only because he thought it a steppingstoneto carrying out Local Self-Government in a more "simple and less expensive form than that of a Government passing bills' that were disallowed, such as Local Boards to carry out uniform acts operating all over the Colony. He thought that the proceedings respecting the separation had been* indecently hastened, and he knew of many instances where the names in that petition were incorrect.* He believed the effect would be of little importance to Nelson, but if it was thought necessary to do so, that with a little scrutiny the Separation act might be upset. The Act said, that, no part of the new province should be less than 60 miles distant from the old capital, with .the Wairau one exception; had been made, because the length of road wa» out of proportion to the actual distance, but he felt sure the act never contemplated tjiat the pew province should come within 7 niile,s of Neleoq which, upon the new principle, it does. Mr. KemjlNQ also spoke on the question, blaming the Provincial Government for the want of interest shewn in the proceedings connected with the Separation Act. After some further discussion, •

Mr. Crompton proposed that a committee consisting of Messrs. Curtis, Kelling, C. Elliott, the Ghafrman ? and the mover, be appoiuted to formV committee tp prepare Memorial en^bodyjng the resolutions'passed by this meeting to, be pre? sented.to his Excellency;the Governor during hig visit to Nelson.

Messrs. C. Elliott and Kellino objecting to have their names attached, those of Messrs. I. M. Hill and A. Rankin senior were substituted, and the proposition carried. A vote of thanks having been passed to the Chairman, the meeting then separated.

Nelson Of ot^ Mills.—We visited these mills yesterday morning at the request of Messrs. Blicfe: and Webbeily, the1 proprietors, and were gratifiedr to find that the improvement? they hay* fcieenmaking lately are nearly completed, and that their water wheel is, no\v ; ;in 'working/ order. The wheel itself; is very large, being 21 feet in diameter and, bjsiugof that class described as overshot, qf y,ery'great force. The wheeljis'on a new principle, built by Mr. John James under the super* ' intendencc of Mr. Walter Savery. who lias intro* duced into the construction additional-arms; tend-" inggreatly to strengtben the wheel during its. working hour». As all. the processes-were not being proceeded with we' intend paying another visit next. Wednesday,, when arrangements will be made for working, all the machinery. An invitation will be sent to his* Excellency the Governor, begging him to inspect the works during his stay, whichs if ajeeedfd to will we doubt not. cause a considerable.number ofyisitorai to.attend. PHOTOGRAPHy,—When tlie cobbler said there was .nothinglike leather he did not expect that he would jbe able to have his human face divine so indellibly iinpi^ssed on that substance that time and roughusage would not efface his wrinkles; such, how- ; ever/is the. case, and we have had introduced i amongst us during the last week a new process for taking'photographs,upon leather, and it has the following advantages which are indeed rare in the Art, that the portrait requires uo protection, in fact, the hiardey it Mr^bbed,..the more glossy and ,v.bri|jiant it becpiiips, and J;here is n.ofear of fracture^ Mr. \jjane, of the firm QJsley. an 4 K»ne liks comIpk'teU his experimentst'and is!' rrio%;p"re|iar€!d -to Uake portraits after this mode. Wtv corinally; re^i tlicni for theii1 ; e^y 'portability ■• ahdj' l*-inir-.theirl letters home by the next mail,' giviiiga double grttincation'to tlie fronds the^r^ have left behind thern.^ •

Dr. Yo«ng says, that man and wife are like soul and body—always at variance, aud yet }oth to