PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Colonist, Volume II, Issue 175, 24 June 1859, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesday, June 21. The Council met on this occasion at eleven o'clock in tbe forenoon. All the members present. The Speaker in the chair. The minutes were read hy the Clerk. LETTER FROM TBE COLONIAL SECRETARY. A letter from Auckland was read by the Speaker, in which the Colonial Secretary regretted not being able to supply the Acts of the General Assembly to all Justices ofthe Peace; but would forward some to the Sub-Treasurer for sale at a moderate price. REPORT ON ROAD IN WAIMEA WEST. Mr. Wemyss brought up this report, which was read by the Clerk. The Standing Orders having been suspended to. allow the moving of the adoption of it, Mr. Wemyss moved that the report be adopted. Seconded hy Mr. Wells. Mr. Parker spoke at some length against tho adoption of the report. Mr. Kelling thought he could answer Mr. Parker's objections. As a member of the com- • mittee, why did not he (Mr. P.) require more evidence when they were sitting? The report states that it was to be regretted no road had been laid out. He knew the locality well, and believed that the original road was not suitable ; and, as a member of the Road Board, should object to the original, and prefer that now proposed. MESSAGE FROM THE SUPERINTENDENT. Message, No. 26, was then brought in and read, after which, The amendment was then put and negatived. Mr. Saunders said he should like to say a few' words upon this report, and also upon the.committee that had brought it up, but if he did so he feared that he should state " offensive facts;" and as the Speaker had ruled that Mr. Parker was highly out of order in stating offensive facts, he thought it most desirable that a standing order ' should be at once passed to that' effect, so' that all parties could be treated alike, and all parties might understand that if any facts were stated that were not perfectly agreeable to them they could at onco have a speaker put down. (The Speaker here called Mr. Saunders' attention to the existence of a standing order that no member should be allowed to use "offensive or unbecoming language.") Mr. Saunders said he was perfectly aware of the existence of a standing order that most, properly prohibited the use of offensive language, but there was a wide difference between offensive language and offensive facts ; and whilst ho hoped to be always able to avoid the one he would never attempt to avoid the other. There were some portions of the report which he had heard read that he should like to see adopted, but there were other parts of ifc so utterly at variance with truth,' that he regretted to see that Council asked to adopt. ' He thought, if only for the purpose of giving it an appearance of fairness, it would have been wise for the committee to have taken some other evidence besides that of Dr. Monro himself, and one or two friends that he had commended to their notice. He (Mr. Saunders) had quite expected, that he should have been called on by the committee to give his evidence, or at the very least, that he . should have been asked if he had any witnesses to produce in support of any statement he had made, or might be supposed to have made, in that Council. But no; nothing of the sort was wanted. They had Dr. Monro's own evidence, and that wai just the sort of evidence the committee wanted, and therefore tlu*y sought no farther. There was, however, one very important thing which this evidence of Dr. Monro's had brought to light, and that was, that Dr. Monro was very much more to blame than he (Mr. Saunders) had ever expected that he was, inasmuch as it appeared that the Commissioners had been induced to give him this road in consequence of misrepresentations which he had made to them. It appeared that Dr. Monro had told them that the road was quite useloss to the public, that it was under water in the slightest flood and could not at. any moderate expense, he made available. So far from tbat being tlie case, he (Mr. Saunders) could inform the Council and the committee too, that on Friday last he had gone in company with Mr. Thompson, who had pointed him out the exact line of this road; th at lie had walked over every part of it except that-part which was now occupied by Dr. Monro's garden (and no'"sneaking" or "cowardly" man could be expected to go inside of that garden) ; and that he had done so without getting his feet at. all damp, although the river was so high as to come into the gig as they crossed it. It was even in its natural state a good road, having every where a hard bottom, and could be made a first-rate road at a very trifling expense —which was not the case with the road that the Waimea Road Board had now proposed to substitute for it. As to its being legal, he believed there was a power now placed in the hands of the Waimea Road Board which would make it quite legal for them to stop up.the present road between Greig's.Hill and Gardiner's Rope-walk; but the law always supposed that public men would pay some little attention to public interest, aud not give away a public road without offering the public-any kind of substitute . for it. If that Council had any regard for its own credit, he hoped they would not disgrace themselves by adopting a report which was utterly at variance with truth.- ■ After a few words from Mr. Sharp, Mr. Hewetson said that he remembered the road before it was stopped up; both he and his neighbours had oftentimes used it, and considered it was very bad, and rejoiced in finding the new one made. He considered the old one impracticable, and had often been up to. his knees in ifc , whilst travelling. Mr. Wemyss replied to Mr. Saunders, and defended Dr. Monro from the charges made by that gentleman. His (Dr. M's) representations were made ten years ago, and. he, had since been at a great expense to shut out the river; He did not doubt but that the old road was formerly as bad as the proposed one was described by' Mr. Saunders. Dr. Monro's presence was required by the committee, as it was necessary for him to produce his

Crown grant, and he (Mr. W.) did not wonder at the additions made to such an undersized grant. It was not the only instance in which the Commissioners had done the same thing. He hoped the Council would adopt the report. The House then divided with the following result:— Ayes, 16. Noes, 4. Mr. Wemyss Mr. Saunders Elliott Parker Curtis Baigent Provincial Solicitor Simmonds. Provincial Secretary Mr. Wells Sinclair Gibbs Mackav M'Rae" Kelling Sharp Marsden Renwick Hewetson Dodson. . Messrs. Vyvyan and Monro declined to vote. Mr. Parker moved the printing of- the report, and Mr. Baigent, who seconded the motion, spoke as to his experience with reference to his own Crown grant, which had been refused alteration under similar circumstances, as the gentleman to whom he had applied said they had no authority. Mr. Sharp explained that a Crown Grant could not be altered after being signed. Report ordered to be printed. The Standing orders being suspended, The Message of the Superintendent was taken into consideration, and the alterations in the various acts passed the House. NOTICE OF MOTION. Mr. Sharp gave notice that he should, next session, move that the offices of Crown Commissioner and Provincial Secretary be not held by the same person. GOLD-FIELDS. Mr. Curtis moved the suspension of Standing Order No. 30, to enable him to bring a-motion before the Council without notice, to the effect that it was desirable that the Council should be informed whether the Government intended to take any steps to secure parties of diggers and others desirous of working portions of tho goldfields. He thought tho Council would agree that they ought to have this information before they separated. Tlie motion was put and carried. Mr. Curtis then moved the resolution he had just mid, and said he would not occupy the Council many minutes in speaking in support of it. Since the Council last met, the Government had received a letter, which he supposed was to be taken as a reply to the application for the At-torney-General's opinion upon the legal part of the gold leases question. Me thought, however, that the Attorney-General could have h .d very little to do with this.reply, and that it was chiefly the production of a junior clerk in the office ofthe Secretary for Crown Lands, and that that gentleman could not have read it when lie put his signature to it. (Hear, hear.) Tiie letter of the Provincial Secretary was a long one, and contained a good deal of matter which he thought superfluous; but at all events it contained three distinct questions, to the first of which he supposed this letter was to be taken as a reply. He would read the question:—" Whether, first, the Commissioner and Superintendent, with the advice of the Executive, can issue valid leases of auriferous lands under the Nelson Land Regulations of the Ist July, 1856." Now, the Attorney-General had given no distinct or explicit answer to this question, which was the only one upon which his opinion was really required. It is true he gives us his impressions that the present regulations " do not appear to contemplate gold-mining," and that "they are not suitable to leases for such a purpose" —points upon which that Council was as capable of forming an opinion as the Attorney-General;— Ibut he avoids any direct answer on the only point -of any interest—namely, whether leases granted under the present regulations would or would not be valid contracts. The information, therefore, which he now wished to obtain from the Executive was, whether they now intended to issue leases under their present powers, or if not, what steps they intended to take in the matter. Mi*. Wells seconded the motion. The Provincial Secretary replied by stating that the Gold Company, to which the hon. member who had brought forward this motion belonged, had received an explanatory letter, and in order that •other hon. members might he informed, he would -say that tbe intentions of the Government were, to put into force the old regulations about trespassing on Crown lands against all who were not tinder the protection of the Government; and he did not think that any new act would invalidate their claims.

Dr. Monro thought the Executive were going in direct opposition to tho Attorney-General. The Land Regnlations, according to that gentleman, do not contemplate gold-mining. He thought that the Attorney-General was wrong, as he could state that gold was taken into consideration at the time that they were framed. The Provincial Secretary had explained the means proposed to he used b}** the Government; he thought they would not be bold enough to say that these regulations proposed to be adopted had ever contemplated gold-mining. He did believe that there was now an intention on the part ofthe Piovincial Executive to further gold-mining : but certainly did not see how the new regulations could assist in any way other than as they would in the case of timber, A-c. He called attention to the present sta'e of the Provincial Executive, and referred to the financial resolutions of the General Assembly. He knew that the Waste Lands Act was in the hands of the General Government, but the a-mi-riHtration was in tbe bands ofthe Provincial Executive. FTe considered that leases should have "been granted under the Regulations of 1856 ; no one had shewn how the province would have been injured. Since the matter had first been discussed, lie considered the Executive had often shifted their ground. The hon. member then went info the details* of Mr. Gibbs' application, and concluded hy saying that as the Provincial Council was desirous to grant, leases, and that was the ■ultimate authority, he considered that they should havo been granted.

Mi*. Gtbbs rose to .make a few remarks with Tes;ipct to the proposed license. He considered that although it might give sufficient security to •a company, the difficulties and restrictions in the way of obtaining it, expressed in the letter just received by the Nelson company, were such as to prevent any digger or party of diggers-from availing themselves of the licpnse—indeed it almost amounted to a prohibition. In most instances they could not conform to them, and therefore the individual digger (on whose account, and for whose protection, Mr. J. Gibbs'application had been partly refused) would loose the advantage of the proposed substitute for a lease.

Mr. Saunders thought that a few remarks -could answer Dr. Monro, who seemed so to despise ihe Attorney-General's opinion, which he had hefore thought so valuable. He did not agree with the wording of the answer of tho Attorney-Ge-neral; still it was not for gentlemen who had concocted such an address as they had to the Governor to cry out at it. He was not often away from his ;6eat in the Council Chamber, but he had never 'heard it proved that, the Executive were prepared to grant a lease of 20 acres.

Mr. Gibbs, in explanation to what had fallen from Mr. Saunders, and which cast an imputation of un-. •truth upon a statement of his (Mr. Gibbs') some time since, and which he again repeated—that his -Honor had sard that he (or.f hey, meaning the Executive) had offered Mr. J. Gibbs a lease of 20 or 30 acres—the words 30 acres he would not rin•dertake to say were positively made use of, but his Honor certainly said that an offer of 20 acres had been made.

Mr. Curtis said he had hut few words.to say in reply, as the speeches of members on the other side had already been sufficiently answered on most points. He could not but remark, however, on the uncandid way in which the Executive dealt with the Council in reference to the alleged offer of a lease of twenty or thirty acres to Mr. Gibbs. On oue occasion, when this offer was alluded, to by Mr. Kelling,-the Provincial Solicitor demanded to know on what authority thp as?er. ion

that any such offer had taken place was made; ■ hut after the statement of the hon. member for Massacre Bay, that the Superintendent had himself told him that such an offer had boon made, the Provincial Solicitor sat-down and said no more. That morning, when -the. subject was again adverted to, the Provincial Solicitor questioned the fact by calling out "No!no !" but he had never ventured to rise and deny that the offer had been made. The straightforward course for tho Executive clearly would have been either plainly to deny or to admit the fact without equivocation, instead of constantly .endeavoring to throw doubt upon it in an underhand way. With regard to Mr. Saunders' statement, that there was a clause in the Gold- , Fields Act which, when it came into operation, would render null and void all gold-mining leases granted under the present regulations, such an opinion would have come with more weight from the Provincial Solicitor; but in any case he thought ifc would he easy to shew that it could not ■he supported for a moment, and that an appeal to the Supreme Court would quickly establish the rights of holders of mining leases granted under regulations in force before'the Goltl-iFields Act became law. After a few more remarks, the motion passed. On Mr. Sharp moving the suspension of Standing Order No. 30, ; Mr. Saunders opposed, as it was getting into a practice of dragging in important questions without notice, and remarked upon the motion of Mr. Sharp pledging the Council, which had addressed the Governor for a dissolution, to a future course. The Council divided in the following manner:— Ayes, 11, Noes,-11. Mr. Sharp Mr. Saunders Elliott Provincial Solicitor Vyvyan Mr. Wells Curtis ' Wemyss Monro Mackay Sinclair M'Rae Gibbs Marsden Kelling Parker Renwick Baigent Hewetson Simmonds Redwood Dodson The numbers being equal, The Speaker gave his casting vote with the Ayes, and the motion passed. The Provincial Secretary declined to vote.

Mr. Sharp moved—"That this Council is of opinion that the offices of Commissioner of Crown Lands and Provincial Secretary should not be held hy tho same individual, and pledge themselves to vote a salary in case the Superintendent appoints a new Provincial Secretary," and spoke as to the duties of Provincial Secretary being so onerous as to prevent the Commissioner of Crown Lands doing his duty, and he considered the province would he a gainer even with an extra salary to pay, as the care in the assessments would repay the extra sum.

Mr. Elliott seconded, and looked upon the former act ofthe Provincial Council in combining the two offices as one of false economy.

Mr. Saunders opposed the motion afc some length, and considered it better for the Crown Commissioner to trust to the reports of the surveyors than be continually running about himself. Mr. Kelling and Mr. Wells supported. Mr. M'Rae opposed, and Mr. Dodson thought It was a dodge to catch the Superintendent.

Dr. Monro supported, and remarked upon what he thought the mistaken economy of the Superintendent. The hon. gentleman went at some length into the duties of Crown Commissioner, and considered that his department was one of the most important, as the chief revenue of the proI vince was' derived from the land. He considered that land was selling too cheap, and that would not be the case did the Commissioner himself look I after the sales and value. He fully supported the motion, and regretted that it had been brought before the Council at so late a time. Mr. Sharp replied to some of Mr. Saunders' objections, and spoke as to the necessity ofthe personal supervision of the Crown Commissioner over lands. The Council divided with the following result:— Ayes, 12. Noes, 10. j Mr. Sharp Mr. Saunders I Elliott M'Rae Monro Dodson Kelling Simmonds Hewetson Baigent Renwick Parker Gibbs Marsden Sinclair Mackay Curtis Wemj'ss Vyvyan The Provincial Solicitor Wells Redwood The Provincial Secretary declined voting. The Council having adjourned until 3 o'clock, assembled afc that hour. The Superintendent having been announced, the Council rose to receive him, and having taken a chair on the right hand of the Speaker, delivered the following address :— Mb. Speaker and Gentlemen ofthe Provincial Council— In closing your present session, I advert with pleasure to the large amount of Public Works to be executed during the ensuing year, for which you have voted the requisite supplies—works in extent, importance, and variety far exceeding those undertaken at any other period in the history of this province. I shall endeavor to have these works carried forward with as little delay as possible; and trusfc that, from their impartial distribution through almost every district of the province, the impetus thereby given to trade will, in conjunction with other circumstances now in operation, materially increase the general prosperity of all classes of the community. I deem it right, however, in reference to this subject, to remind you that the large sum of six thousand pounds, which you have voted over and above my estimate of the probable revenue for the current year, will necessitate my deferring, for some time at least, a portion of the Public Works, till I am assured that the sum referred to will be available.

On behalf of his Excellency the Governor, I have assented to the following Acts, entitled respectively the

Alteration of Roads Act; Dog Nuisance Amendment Act; ' Nelson Institute Act ; Public Cemeteries Act; Thistle Act; Hospital Reserves Act:; Cattle Branding Amendment Act; Appropriation Act; And I have reserved for the signification of his Excellency's pleasure thereon, the Nelson Board of Works Debenture Bill; Naval and Military Settlers Bill ; Land for Compensation Bill; Compensation for Roads Bill; Hospital Management Bill. I now prorogue this Council, and ifc stands prorogued accordingly.

J. P. EOBINSON, Superintendent. The address being concluded, the Superintendent retired, and the Council broke up. In the course of the afternoon the usual Council dinner took place at the Wakatu Hotel.

A number of medical men ancl pharmaceutists lately met at Messrs..Hall and Co.'s, Bourke-street, Melbourne, for the purpose of ascertaining to what extent, the representations of Mr. Underwood as to the virtues of his antidote to snake poison, were borne out by fact. The exhibitor produced a diamond snake of about five feet in length, and allowed it to bite the back of one of his hands. The incisions made by the animal penetrated the skin and produced blood, ancl Mr. Underwood then proceeded to nib over the wounds a dark -colored liquid, which he announced to be the antidote. A slight local swelling was soon apparent, but that was all the effect produced by the reptile's bite. Mr.^ Underwood then caused the snake to bite two pigeons, refraining in this instance from applying the antidote. The birds died in a few minutes after being bitten. The result was considered highly satisfactory by all who were present, ancl a certificate to that effect was signed by them. Quite in his Line.—'\D!ye s'pose you can do the landlord in the Lady of Lyons," said a manager t 0 a seedy actor in cpiest of an engagement. "I s ] lo uld think that my line of business,"" said he, fojc I've heen doing nothing else this pretty while." t