THE FINANCIAL DEBATE.

Te Aroha News, Volume VIII, Issue 489, 16 July 1890, Page 5

THE FINANCIAL DEBATE.

WARM SPEECH BY MR GOLDIE, MYTHICAL RETRENCHMENT SYSTEM ATTACKED.

Wellington, July 10.

Early in the afternoon of yesterday the Financial debate was resumed by Dr. Fitchetb on the Opposition side of the House, who questioned some of the assertions made by the Colonial Secretary as to the actual progress made during last year. Mr Goldie, who followed, made a forcible speech, directing his attention chiefly to show where retrenchment could bo effected. He said a great deal had been said in previous 3’ears about the classification of the Civil Service, and the present Premier had told them over and over again that it was possible Jo make reductions in that Department. In the Bill introduced in 1886, provision was made for the re-classification of the Civil Service, and that Bill was still in force. The question of pensions dealt with in that Bill had been rigidly attended to, but a question of classification had not been adopted, and he believed there was no need for the House to pass the Civil Service Classification Bill while the Bill of 1886 remained in force. Two or three promises wero made by the present Premier upon this subject. In 1883, he stated that the Government had determined to ask the House to consider the claim for re organisation of the Civil Service, and promised to propose a resolution embodj’ing the views of the Government. In 1884 it was promised to introduce a Bill re-organising the Civil Service, and providing that appointments and promotions in future should be the reward of merit. These promises had not been kept. Mr Goldie also touched upon tho appointment of Mr Cooper to the Civil Service, in the face of the assertions previously made that he was not to have such an appointment, and also to the appointments of the son of Colonel Hume and of Mr Hazeldene, junr., to the Justice Department, and the similar appointment of a new arrival in the colony to tho Treasury Department after having served a short period as a constable in the police. In this way promises of reform in the Civil Service had been made, and as repeatedly broken. He believed this question was intimately connected with retrenchment. This session the Government had ready a Bill for dealing with the service only. They had not yet placed it before the House. Personally he was sent to the House to oppose extravagance of the Stout-Vogel Government, bub the StoutVogel Government did give effect to measures of this character which they submitted, and effected greater reduction in the Civil Service than had ever been made by the Atkinson Government. There now seemed to bo an intention on the part of the Premier to set apart £40,000 for school buildings, and to place this expenditure under the direct control of the Minister for Education. He thought this money could undoubtedly be spent much more economically by the Education Boards, and urged that if the vote were left under the control of the Minister of Education it would be secured by districts possessing the greatest political influence. He understood, however, that this statement was made for a special purpose. They had been told that the Public Works Department had been aboliehed and that a large number of officials had been dismissed from that Department, bub as a matter of fact there was a mere shuffling of the cards, the officials £0 dismissed from the public works being transferred to what was called the Public Buildings Department. This Department, moreover, he had found to be totally inefficient in the work which devolved upon it. He thought the right course to pursue was to give to the Boards of Education a capitation allowance to cover both the cost of teaching and the cost of erecting school buildings. Coming to the question of economy, the Premier said the Government was convinced that it was utterly impossible to make a further reduction in the public service. In 1880 the Royal Commission on the reorganisation of the Civil Service reported how a saving of £500,000 could be effected annually in the administration of this department. The Treasurer, realising the effect this report would have on the colony, made a statement to the effect that considerable reductions had been made in the various departments without impairing the efficiency of any, and they now learned that tho retrenchment then made had since been restored by the present Premier, together with the compensation for reductions made by Sir John Hall. The departmental increases laßb year amounted to £92,000 against deductions of £23,000, and it was very evident that they were going back to the extravagances of the past. Ho had no hesitation in saying that if a Royal Commission, consisting of say Messrs Barron, Withy and Saunders, were appointed to reorganise the Civil Service, enormous savings might be effected. A very large saving could be made in the maintenance of industrial schools. The sum paid for each child per head was, he considered, far too large. The children in the four industrial schools of the colony cost £26 per head per annum, or £19,562, and the reduction of the cost per head to £ls, which was £5 more than the cost to an ordinary working man for the maintenance of his children would effect a clear saving of at least £3,746 per annum. The cost of prisoners per head last year was £45 15s Bd, and this was under the management of Colonel Hume, as compared with a cost of £3O 13s per head, prior to the importation of that gentleman from the Old Country. Mr Goldie contradicted the statement made in the report of the Minister of Education, that the Auckland Board of Education had declined to take over the native schools. The cost of these nchools per head was £6 2s as against £3 15s, the cost of children in European schools, and if they were placed under the control of the Boards at £4 5s per head, a clear saving of £5,155 annually could be made. A saving of £45,000 could also bo made by striking off the estimates all increases on salaries over £l5O. There was set down a sum of £IOO,OOO for contingencies in local bodies. They would not allow anything of this kind, and the object of these contingencies was simply to bury up matters which would not bear investigation. He disapproved of any proposal made to reduce the capitation in the primary schools, believing that any savine effected there would be spent in extravagant administration. It was proposed to keep up the primage duty to provide £40,000 for school buildings, while last year £25,000 proved to bo more than enough for this purpose, and a saving of £15,000 could be made there. A saving of £SOO or £6OO could be made in Ministers’ travelling allowances,the present Government having spent £1,600 under this bead. Having said this much, his. next sourse was to leave the Ministerial side of the House and go to the other, but he had no confidence in either side (laughter), and urged that tho proper course for them to pursue was to get back to the country as peedily as possible.

Mr John McKenzie attacked the Government land policy, and urged that the only course open to them was to go back to the country. • Mr Withy took up the debate shortly after 11 p.m., and went deeply into figures to show what the actual savings effected by the Government had been, and which was practically a repetition of his pre sessional address. He then referred to the action of what was known as 1 the Skinflint Committee of 1888 and the promise given by the Premier that he would retrench as far as possible d uring the recess. That promise wa3 not kept last session. The Government ceased to retrench, and ever since their expenditure had gone on increasing. They were not there to squander money in making things nice and comfortable for the Civil Service, but to see that taxation was properly distributed, and that the finances of the colony were fairly and equitably administered. He gave Mr Goldie credit for making one of the best speeches in the course of the debate, and undertook to back him up to the utmost. He (Mr Withy) would vote against the Government in respect of the continuance of the primage duty, by which £59,000 was realised last year. He believed the finances of the colony would never be on a sound basis until they were done with the loan money, but ho did not approve of waiting for retrenchment until the whole of the loan money was done, realising that a number of services must in future be borne out of taxation instead of out of loan. The difference between the Government and himself was that the Government wished to meet these demands by imposing additional taxation, while he wished to have them provided for by retrenchment. The reason why he did not vote for the Hon. Mr Ballance’s amendment was becauso of the impression created on his mind in 1887 by the administration of the Stout-Vogel Government, of which the present leader of the Opposition was a member. Looking to the antecedents of that Government and to the antecedents of the leader of the Opposition, he was not prepared to accept the proposals made by the latter as thoroughly sincere. At the same time, he confessed that he was so dissatisfied with the present Government that it was an exceedingly difficult question for him to decide whether he should turn the Government out or keep them in office. The debate was adjourned at 11.45 until 2.30 p.m. to-day, a motion for adjournment till 7.30 p.m., moved by Sir George Grey, being lost on the voices.

Sill GEORGE GREY REPLIES TO SIR JOHN HALL.

Wellington', July 12. The debate on the Financial Statement was resumed in the House of Representativea shortly before three o’clock yesterday afternoon, when Mr Bruce (Rangitikei) had possession of the iloor. He charged the Opposition with having adopted an unfair line of argument in this attack upon the Government, and with having attempted to falsify the position of Government in an endeavour to achieve a petty party triumph. Ho described the village settlement scheme, of which so much had been made by the leader of the Opposition, as an artificial congestion of the labourwhich had, as a rule, failed in other occupations, and which could not be expected to prove successful. He defended the Government in respect of their administration generally, and expressed confidence in the verdict of the country being in their favour at the forthcoming election.

Mr Iluxton (Rangitata) defended the

property tax, and spoke in favour of the retention of 91 members, and said he could not understand the advantages of the

policy of the skinliinb party. He thought retrenchment should bo effected with the greatest care, and by those who thoroughly understood what they were about. MrDuncan (Waibaki) strongly condemned the whole policy of the Government and urged an early dissolution. Mr Menteabh (Te Aro), who followed, spoke in an equally vigorous manner on the opposite side. Sir John Hall charged the Opposition with utter want of unity in opinion and action, except in their desire to oust the Government. On the subject of Federation, ho urged that the sending of delegates to the next convention would not commit the colony to anything, while it would certainly advance the cause of commercial reciprocity. Be-

sides, the subjects to be discussed would be of great interest to New Zealand, such as those of the fiscal policy, postal and telegraphic communication, and most of all the naval defences. He deprecated an apparent inclination to treat this question in the light of party considerations. The colony was almost unanimous in the opinion that New Zealand should nob at present join in Federation, but still when they were offered a voice in the framing of the constitution, they should nob refuse it. He agreed that both sides of tho House should be represented at the Convention. He asserted that the statement by Mr Hutchison that within tho next two or three years eight millions would have to be raised to meet the loans falling in, etc., was based on figures that were egregiously unreliable and incorrect. He defended the expenditure that had taken place for defence purposes, and proposed a scheme for roading Crown lands. If the depression existed it was nob shown by any of the large producing industries of the colony, and it was not in any case alarming in extent. Our exports proved that our producing industries w'ere thriving, and on the whole he saw no cause for alarm. As to the proposed prevention of the exodus of population by better facilities being given for land settlement,he claimed that plenty of good land was now available,

Dr. Newman, who followed, asserted that not more than three or four members really desired to have a dissolution, and asserted that having travelled right through the colony, he could state that the people were almost unanimously opposed to a second session during the present year. He disapproved strongly of the proposals made by the Auckland retrenchment party. Sir George Grey, in reply, made a severe attack upon Sir John Hall, charging him with having been one of the most prominent of those who had locked up the large blocks of land and acquired therefrom vast wealth given to it by the labour of his fellow men. He ridiculed the assertions made by the members on the other wide of the House that the country did not desire a dissolution, and went on to assert that with a tax upon the unearned increment the country would reverb to its original prosperity. If the country was to produce more it should be under conditions

by which the toilers should get their fair share. Sir George also said tho conviction was that the perpetual lease was the best tenure that could be given, and even asserted that it was their duty to get back to the country at once. The country werb

promised a reduction of members and a reduction in' the number of Ministers, and the principle of one man one vote, and it was actually proposed to withhold from the people these great privileges for another twelve months. The reason why tho people did not go upon the land offered them was becauso very little of that land was good, and because it was

bo mixed up with large estates that they could not spread themselves. People were pub on small blocks of land upon which they and their descendants must of necessity be nothing but labourers all their lives. He did nob believe if this colony were in a prosperous state, as it ought to be, Australia would draw from it our small farmers, lb was, he said, poverty that eent the people away from our shores. He deprecated the useless expenditure that had taken place in the construction of useless defences, and in conclus : on urged what was wanted was that the colony should return men who understood the land question, and who would put a tax on the unearned increment.