REPRSENTATION BILL. ITS PRESENT FORM. DISCUSSION ON IT. (BY TELEGRAPH—SPECIAL REPORTER.)

Te Aroha News, Volume VII, Issue 392, 10 August 1889, Page 5

REPRSENTATION BILL. ITS PRESENT FORM. DISCUSSION ON IT. (BY TELEGRAPH — SPECIAL REPORTER.)

Wellington, August 6. In accordance with the motion tabled on Friday, the House meb at halfpast two yesterday, when the Representation Bill was to come up again ; but the Colonial Secretary announced that though the amendments agreed upon had been drafted, there had not been time to have them printed and circulated. He therefore requested that the House would adjourn until half-past seven, which, after a little business had been done, was agreed to. The Bill was circulated about seven o'clock, and now exists in the following form, leaving out the short title and the clause representing section 3 of the principal Act of 1887.

THE AMENDED BILL. In order to make up any city electoral districts where the city itself shall not include a sufficient population, there may be included with the city, as a part or parts of the whole, such boroughs and town districts adjacent to the said borough city as in the opinion of the Commissioners can be most conveniently included with the same, and if there shall not be sufficient population within such boroughs and town districts, then there may be included such areas of the adjacent or surrounding country as can, in the opinion of the Commissioners, be most conveniently included. The remainder of the colony shall be divided into as many districts as there are other members (not Maori members) to be returned. The extent of such last mentioned electoral districts shall, respectively, be such that one member shall be assigned to each district, and that at the time of making such division the population thereof after making the addition aforesaid shall, subject to the provisions as to the allowance hereinafter contained, be equal to the quota. In forming the several districts due consideration shall be given to the present boundaries of electoral districts, to community ot interest, facilities of communication, and topographical features. Where, in the opinion of the Commissioners, districts cannot be formed consistently with the above considerations, so as to contain exactly the quota or a multiple of the same, as the case may require, the Commissioners may, for each member to be elected, make an allowance by way of addition or deduction of population to the extent of seven hundred and fifty. Provided always that the Commissioners shall not make any such addition to or deduction from any city electoral district, or to or from any other district wholly composed of population to which the addition of 28 per cent, has not been made : and in the cases of a district which, being a city electoral district or a district adjoining a city electoral district, is partly composed of such population, the allowance which may be made shall not be greater than a number which will be in the same ratio to seven hundred and fifty, that the population to which the addition of twenty-eight per centum has been made within such district after such addition is made bears to the quota. The principal Act, and any Act amending the same, shall from the commencement of this Act take effect subject to the substitutions required by this Act. 1. Section four of the principal Act is hereby repealed. 2. In computing for tho purposes of this Act the population of the colony there shall be added twenty-eight per centum to the population not contained in any city, borough, or town district which contains a population of over two thousand. 3. The total population of the colony other than Maoris, with the addition aforesaid, shall be divided by the number of members and the quotient thus obtained shall be the quota. 4. There shall be four city electoral districts, to be called respectively Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin, and to be defined so as to contain the whole, or if there shall be a greater population than is "required, a part of such citie3 respectively ; and there shall be assigned to each of them three members. The extent of each of the said city electoral districts shall respectively be such that the population thereof shall, subject to theprovisions as to the allowance hereinafter specified, be three times the quota.

EVENING SITTING. The House met at half-past seven, and at once went into committee to consider the Bill. Clause 1, shorb title, was pub. Mr Fraser thought the Colonial Secretary should fully explain the Bill in its altered form. The Hon. Mr Hislop said the gist of the Bill was contained in the nexb clause giving 28 per cent, allowance to the counbry districts. Mr Fraser : Well, ifc will lead to a great deal of discussion, if you don't, I can promise you. The Colonial Secretary said the alterations were chiefly the seven hundred and fifby of thirty thousand. There shall be five borough electoral districts, to be called respectively Napier, Nelson, Tim am, Oamaru, and Invercargill, and there shall be assigned to each one member. The extent of each of the said borough electoral districts shall be such that the population of each shall not exceed or fall shoit by more than seven hundred and fifby of nine thousand. The remainder of the colony shall be divided into fifty electoral districts, to each of which shall be assigned one member. Auckland, 40,000 ; Christchurch, 40,000 ; Dunedin, 40,000 ; Wellington 30,000 ; 15 members, total population 150,000. Napier, 9,000 ; Nelson, 9,000 ; Timaru, 9,000 ; Oamaru, 9,000 : Invercargill, 9,000 ; 5 members, 45,000. Other districts 50 members, 7,570, equal tos73,soopopulation, from which deduct 195,000 and divide the remainder by 50, giving 7,570. This Bill wa3 approved by Messrs R. Reeves and Tanner.

THE BILL AGAIN. The short title was then put and carried. This, the first real progress made for a fortnight, was the signal for a hearty round of applause. Section 2 of clause 2 provides for a nominal addition of 28 per cent, to the population of all parts of the colony except towns of more than 20,000 inhabitants. Mr Taylor protested against any allowance being made, but the clause was carried on the voices ; as well as the next sub-section, which contained only consequential amendments, giving of the addition of 28 per cent, to all districts except the large towns and cities, and that no provision was made as to the exercise of the margin. In the case of cities he intended, however, to move the insertion of the margin which had since been agreed to, viz, 100 inhabitants in each city electorate. Mr Saunders thought the Bill had been so completely altered in principle that its title should now be — " A Bill to Encourage Stonewalling in the House of Representatives.'

I Mr Perceval asked whether the country members would accept the amendments agreed to by the conference of the two parties. The city members would agree to allow a margin of 100 in the case of cities, as it otherwise would be impossible to map out electorates containing neither more nor less than the quota. Mr Seymour said the Bill, as now presented, was accepted by the country party, except that they desired the margin for city electorates to be fixed at not more than one per cent, either way. Mr Samuel protested against going on with the consideration of amendments which had only been circulated for a few minutes. JSJ r Fish urged the Bill should be gone on with, and declared that if there was more obstruction the Government should take a firm stand or else drop the Bill. Seeing that Mr Fish was one of the chief stonewallers, this change of front seemed strange, and was greeted with laughter. Mr Fraser chaffed him about this, and showed that in the country party were two section?, one representing the boroughs and small towns, and the other the rural districts, and it was the latter who had consented to the Bill. He disapproved of boroughs over 2,000 being included with the cities in the provisions respecting the quota. Mr Samuel said the Bill was not drafted so that an ordinarily intelligent man could understand it. He suggested that the average city and average borough quota should be ascertained and inserted in the Bill, and the remainder of the colony lett for division into the required number of rural electorates. These were the lines upon which a Bill had been drafted for the x'epresentationof the boroughs, and he submitted that the idea was intelligible. This Bill was as follows : There shall be four city electoral districts to be called respectively Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin, and there shall be assigned to Auckland, Christchurch and Dunedin 4 members each, and to Wellington 3 members. The extent of each of the said city electoral districts shall be such that the population of Auckland, Christchurch, and Dunedin shall not exceed or fall short by more than seven hundred and fifty of forty thousand ; and that of Wellington shall not exceed or fall short) by more than 750 of 30.000 ; there shall be five borough electoral districts to be called respectively Napier, Nelson, Timaru, Oamaru, and Invercargill, and there shall be assigned to each one member ; the extent of each of the said borough electoral districts shall be such that the population shall not exceed, or fall short by more than 750 of 9,000 ; the remainder of the colony shall be divided into fifty electoral districts, to each of which shall be assigned one member, and the quota of which shall be 7,570." Nothing was done in regard to this proposal.

AMALGAMATION OF CITY ELECTORATES. Sub-section 5 came up next, it being the one that dealt with the amalgamation of cifcy electorates, three membeis being assigned to each city. Mr Fish took strong objection to this portion of the Bill, his principal grounds being that the amalgamation would enable money organisations to combine and thus carry the city seats ; that it would enable a powerful speaker or popular man to carry for himself and his entourage all the seats ; that it placed too great power in the hands of various " isms ;" and that it would increase the cost of contesting elections, and so prevent men of moderate means from oflering themselves as candidates. He argued that the amalgamation would be an illiberal and anti-democratic step. He saw no valid reason why the four should be tieated differently from the country, and moved to have the clause so amended as to do away with amalgamation. Mr Downie Stewart defended the amalgamation, asserting that five-sixths of the people of Dunedin were in favour of it. Amalgamation, he considered, would obviate the necessity for personal canvassing, for instead of having to look up every elector, a candidate would only need to address public meetings in each of the principal parts of the city. Dr. Newman advocated and Mr Taylor opposed amalgamation. Mr "W. P. Reeves said that after a good deal of hesitation he had decided to support the proposal. A& a change was being made in city representation, the present time wa3 opportune for its adoption. Dr. Fitchett warmly supported amalgamation. Mr T. Thompson said the people of his district did not require this amalgamation. He had always opposed it, and had never been found fault with for doing so. Amalgamation would increase the expense of elections and would open a very wide door for personation. As one holding democratic views,he was entirely opposed to thechange, and hoped that the country members would assist in opposing it ; for on it would follow the amalgamation of the country electorates. Mr G oldie said he had contested an amalgamated city and a single electorate, and the latter was far the best. He suggested that if Dunedin and Wellington wanted amalgamation let them have it, but if the other cities did not desire it let them remain as they were. He also opposed the proposed change on the ground of increased expense and the greater danger of personation. Mr Samuel had not heard one good reason advanced in favour of the proposal. On a division the sub-section was carried by 48 to 15. In the division list will be found the names of the following Auckland members who voted or paii'ed for the amalgamation :—: — Col. Fraser, Sir Geo. Grey, Messrs Hobbs, Kelly, R. Thompson, Whyte and Graham ; while among the noes were Messrs Cadman, Goldie, Lawry, Moat, Taiwhanga, T. Thompson and Withy.

AMALGAMATION OF COUNTRY ELECTORATES. Dr. Hodgkinson moved an amendment;, which would have the effecb of amalgamating the country constituencies, so that they should return from three to five members. After a short discussion, the amendment was lost by 44 to 20.

APPLYING THE MARGIN. The new proviso as to the application of the margin to cities was then considered. The Colonial Secretary moved to insert words giving the Commissioners a margin of 100 in arranging city and suburban electorates. Mr Guinness thought that such a small margin for making up electorates comprising '30,000 or 40,000 inhabitants was simply absurd. He moved that 750 be substituted, which was lost on the voices. Mr Cadman moved to add to the clause a provision that a census be taken in March, 1890. Th 9 Chairman ruled that the amendment was out of order, because it affected the Census Act. Subsequently the Chairman accepted an amendment directing that a special census be taken for the purpose of this Act.* The Colonial Secretary opposed the amendment as being inopportune. It was also inconvenient to insert the provision in the Bill, and if the amendment were allowed to stand over he would undertake to give the

House another opportunity of considering the question of taking a special census. On tlm understanding Mr Cadman withdrew his amendment. On the question that the clause be added to the Bill, Mr Guinness called for a division. Ayes 55, noes 10.

STRUCK OUT. Clause 4, repealing section 4 of the Act of 18S7, which provided that whenever the Commissioners propose the boundaries shall be published in the " Gazette." Mr W. J. Steward strongly urged that the provision of the old Act should be retained. The Colonial Secretary did not strongly insist upon tho clause, which was lost on tho voices.

ABOLITION OF PLURAL VOTINGSir George Grey moved the insertion of a J new clause as follows :—: — (1) From and after the passing of this Act no elector shall at any election of members for the House of Representatives vote in respect of more than one electorate. Any person voting in respect of more than one electorate shall be guilty of an offence under this Act. (2) The returning officer or deputy returning officer may, and if so required by any scrutineer, shall at any -elecbion, before allowing any person to vote, put to such person the following question, " Have you already voted at tho present election in any electoral district ?" and unless such person answers such question in the negative, he shall not be permitted to vote. Any person giving a false answer to such question shall be guilty of an offence under this Act. (3) Any person guilty of an offence under this Act shall be liable, on conviction before a resident magistrate, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month. Mr Tanner thought tho clause out of place in the Bill. Capt. Russell did not see any reason why one who had grown grey in the Imperial, colonial, and diplomatic service should be placed on the same footing as an inmate of an old man's house. If the principle was to be adopted, the franchise must be extended to women (cheers) a proposal which he earnestly supported. Believing in the rights of property, he must oppose the motion. The Colonial Secretary said the hon. gentleman could make up his mind that manhood suffrage was the principle upon which our representative system was based. The"Government intended to support the clause. Mr Monk said he would vole tor the clause, because there was an outcry for it from the country, though on the ground of common sense his convictions were against it. He wished to take away from agitators a theme of which they made much capital. Mr Hobbs was opposed to the principle also, but wished candidates to be deprived of using it as an election cry. The clause was ordered to be read a second time by 55 to 18 and was added to the Bill. The following is the division list :— Ayes : Allen, Anderson, Ballance, Barron, Brown, Bruce, Buchanan," Buxton, Cadman, Carroll, Dodson, Feldvvick, Fergus, Fish, Fitchebt, Fraser, Goldie, Grey, Grinimond, Guinness, Hislop, Harkness, Hobbs, Humphreys, Hutchison, Jackson, Joyce, Kelly, Kerr, Lawry, Scobie Mackenzie, Mac^regor, Mitchelson, Moat. Monk, Moss, O'Conor, Paraca, { Perceval. R. H. J. Reeves, Saunders, Seddon, Seymour, Steward, Stewart, Sfcuart Menteath, Taiwhanga, Tanner, Taylor, T. Thompson, R. Thompson, Turnbull, Verrall, Valentine, Walker. Noes : Cowan, Fulton, Hall, Hodgkinaon, Izard, Jones, Lance, Larnach, W. Macarthur, T. Mackenzie, Ormond, Rhodes, G. F. Richardson, Ross, Russell, Samuel, Taipua, Whyte. There were no pairs. Amendments were made by which convictions could be obtained before two Jusoices of the Peace, and changing the penalty to a fine not exceeding £50 instead of imprisonment. Sir George consented to this on the understanding that if it was found too light a penalty a change would be made to imprisonment.

OTHER, AMENDMENTS. Various amendments of one kind and another are promised in the Bill, but all will now be smooth sailing. The threatened trouble over the Bill did not come off, and there are no great 'points likely to come up that will give rise to obstruction. Progress was reported at one o'clock • this morning and the House adjourned until 2.30 this atternoon.

LEADER OF THE COUNTRY PARTY. A good deal of merriment is passing current at the expense of Mr Macarthur, who, as the arch conspirator of the country party which was so anxious to secure an enormous advantage over the cities, has himself been dished. His borough of Palmerston North is amongst those which are put on the same footing as the cities yielding an advantage of 28 per cent, to the real country districts.

FEMALE SUFFRAGE. The new clause which Sir J. Hall proposes to add to the Representation Bill dealing with the question of female franchise runs as follows: — "For all purposes connected with and having reference to the right of voting in the election of members ot the House of Representatives, words in the Acts providing for the representation of the people importing the masculine gender, shall include women,"

REPRESENTATION OF MINORITIES. Mr Guinness, the member for Greyniouth, has given notice of the following; new clause in the Bill : — " Unless a candidate at an election receives an absolute majority of the votes recorded, the Returning Officer shall nob declare such candidate to be elected, but the Returning Officer shall proceed to take a second poll after giving the notices on that behalf required by law : at which second poll only the two candidates who have received the largest number of votes at the first poll shall be entitled to be candidates, and the candidate receiving the largest number of votes at such second poll shall be declared to be elected." This has the warm approval of the " Evening Post," which devotes a leader to the consideration of it, and, after showing how many members in the House represent bub a small percentage of their constituents, it says — "Mr Guinness's proposal might be a somewhat troublesome and expensive course of procedure, but its results would certainly be more satisfactory than those which at present obtain. There are plenty of precedents for the adoption of such a principle. For instance, the assent of an absolute majority is required in the election of a Pope, and of the President of the United States. Ballots are taken in these elections until an absolute majority is secured, for some candidates, so that the new pontiff or president is, if not the first choice, still the final selection of an ab&olute majority of those voting. We are not aware that any system of the kind has been adopted in regard to any English or colonial elections, but if the plan is a good one, and we say it has much to recommend it, mere novelty should not constitute a serious objection. j New Zealand has set an example in several

political reforms to older communities, and it might well do so again in the present case, so as to ensure that the popular branch of its Legislature shall more closely reflect public opinion than it is ever likely to do while elections are conducted on the existing rough-and-ready, but most illogical system."