RETRENCHMENT. MEETING IN THE LORNE-STREET HALL.

Te Aroha News, Volume VI, Issue 277, 30 June 1888, Page 3

RETRENCHMENT. MEETING IN THE LORNE-STREET HALL.

. Auckland, June 26. I»v response to the invitation of His Worship the Mayor, a number of electors assembled in the Lome-street Hull last night for the purpose of considering the much-talked-of retrenchment in the Government expenditure. On the platform were a number of gentlemen, amongst whom we noticed Messrs R. J. Duncan, W. Duncan, E. Bell, J. M. McLachlan, W. (Jrowther. J. Newman, Dr. Bakewell, C. D. Whitcombe, T. B. Hill, J. H. Upton, Theo. Cooper, S. Vaile, A. Bell, A. Boardman, E. W. Burton, W. Hodge, G. Peacocke, Pegler, and Maxwell. His Worship briefly openod the proceedings by stating that it had been called in response to the request of a petition signed by hundreds of names. He regretted the necessity that existed for such a meeting. They proposed to discuss the retrenchment question. The meeting had been brought about by the Auckland Political Financial Reform Association. He hoped that some of those present would join that Association. A number of telegrams and apologies had been received. Amongst them was the following one from Sir George Grey :—: — " The Association may rely upon my exerting myself to aid those with whom I am working in bringing about reductions in the Estimates.' (Applause.) He then called upon Mr A. Boardman to move the first resolution. Mr Boardman was received withapplause. Ho moved, " That while duly appreciating the reduction of Government expenditure already finade, this meeting is of opinion thac a very much larger reduction, say, two hundred thousand pounds (C 200,000), can and ought to bo made, and so avoid the necessity for any large increased taxation." He said that the Government deserved credit for having already reduced the ex-penditux-c by €233,000, but they were told that no further retrenchment could be made. That was not so ; they bhould tell their ruler. 1 : to go on in the good path which they had started. The Association under who»e auspices that meeting was held had estimated that a reduction could bo made of C 269.000. The retrenchment already effected was within £36,000 of that amount. He thought that tho reduction of the number of their legislators to 50 would result beneficially for the country at large. (Applause.) He found that in New Zealand they paid about £730,000 a year more in taxation than Victoria and New South Wales. Such being the case, how could they hope to compete in tho London market with the produce of this colony, if they were so heavily overtaxed ? He found that their public debt amounted to £35,100,000 odd pounds, which during the year had been increased by 11,221,900, and the interest had been proportionally in- ; crea&ed by 072,872. The total interest to ! |be annually paid away amounted to j | £1,838,539. It was an astounding fact that j 600,000 people should pay taxes to the amount of C 3,953,000. It was time it was led need, for it undoubtedly was the cause ot the present depression. He also found that the retrenchment recently earned out by the Government had cost them £22,000 to get people to give up their situations. Then there was the question of compensation, which was a monstrous one in its inception, leading to the extremest jobbery and corruption. He would advocate no pensions being granted to men under 65 years of age, also that the pensioners must reside in the country. He next referred to the question of retrenching in the Mail Service. He thought that £10,700 might be saved. The Frisco Service receipts were C 32,909, and expenditure £30,413, leaving a credit surplus of £2,496. The Direct Service receipts were £28,709, and the expenditure £17,639. The astonishing thine was that while only £1,547 per annum was paid as a bonus tob he 'Frisco Service, the large amount of C 12,326 was paid as a bonus to the Direct Service. "Well, if they simply put both services on the same footing as to bonuses for arrivals, then the sum of £10,700 per annum would be saved. They might also effect a great saving by selling their railways. He knew that there was a division of opinion upon this matter. At present, however, their loss per annum upon Mac railways amounted to C 364,000. That would be saved them it they could only gee a company to take over their railways anil work them, and undoubtedly they would be better managed. (Applause. ) Wherever there was a Government trading concern it was inefliciently managed, and a source of corruption. Ho thought that it would Tae a shameful waste of money if either the North Trunk Railway, the Midland, 'or the South line was made. While retrenchment would assist, yet it would not result in the removal of the depression. They should denude their Government of trading association, and let it have as little money as possible ; then there would be less jobbery and less extravagant waste. Mr Samuel Vailc seconded the resolution. He thought their thanks were due to the Govornmcnt for their tariif proposals, and also for their proposed Representation Bill. He noticed thai the deficiency for the last two years was C 528,608, while the estimated revenue this year was £3,753,200. He could not conceive how the Estimates had been framed, for ordinarily it was almost impossible that it could bo realised. The education vote would be attacked, no doubt. He was quite in favour of raising the school ago to six years, but that would not save very much. Ho would favour giving a capitation fee to all private schools whose pupils would pass the examinations at the public schools. There was not much use in tinkering about reduction. They must bear in mind that the Government was but the reflex of the people. There wero too few of them who had the Cromwelliau spirit of God and duty. Why, if a man worked hard in the Government employ he was looked upon as a lunatic. They should also get rid of some of their present legislators, men who were forced to act at the will of their bankers. The trouble- in New Zealand had been that they had never had men with original ideas in their heads in the Government. The most lamentable mistakes had been committed in tho Public Works Department, and without wishing to cast reflections upon the present occupant of this oth'ce, still he must say that he thought that he could^ no more grasp the duties of his office than he could turn round the moon. The Railway Commissioners would be an added burden of £10,000 to the taxation. They should be very careful as to who were the men that filled those offices. With regard to Mr Boardman's remarks about the railways, j he could only challege that gentleman to j meet him and discuss the, question, and he would guarantee to knock him into a cocked , hat. Mr G. M. Reed spoke in support of the motion. He thought that very great extravagance was connected with the preBent .administration in tho Education Department. Mr McManus aleo addressed the meeting, favoured local self-government.

Dr. Bakevvell came forward fco propose as an amendment that the words I " and so avoid the necessity for any large increased taxation " be struck out. He was an old Civil Servant of another country (Oh, oh !), and he mtfst protest against dealing hardly with the Civil servants. They must not act too hurriedly in such matters. They had made bargains with their Civil servants, and they were bound in honour to pay them. Thoy must consider what the effect would be on the colony if a number of Civil servants were turned out to starve. (Mr Phillips : " We're starving ourselves.") Dr. Bakovvell : "You starving — why, you weigh fully 18 stone." Dr. Bakewell wound up his remarks by saying that people must learn to do with less luxuries if they wished for retrenchment. Mr Crowther seconded the motion pro forma. He did so in order to tell Dr. Bakewell that they were not there to have a red herring drawn across their scent. They would do no injustice. Mr T. W. Doonin reminded the meeting that during the late elections they all cried for retrenchment, and a new Government got in, and still they were almost " as you were. " They must roar persistently until they got retrenchment. They were ground down by taxation, and the Government was become a thorough taxing machine. Mr E. F. Garlick drew attention to the fact that they were having long winded speeches and really doing nothing. The amendment was then put to the meeting, and lost. Mr Maxwell said he had come a long way chat day to attend the meeting. He considered that there was going to be a great financial cra&h in New Zealand. In fact, tho colony was bankrupt. He attributed their depression to the immense j amount of money that had to be sent out J of the colony as interest for public and private loans. Their loans, public and private, amounted to £100,000,000. Now, ! he was there to advocate repudiation. He ! then moved as an amendment that the time had come when there should be some fresh arfungemcntb made with the public creditors. The Mayor said that he should decline to accept a resolution which wa3 an insult to honourable men. Mr Maxwell said that he did not mean absolute repudiation, but simply a new arrangement. The interest at present was ! much too high. It could be got for much j less. He thought that they could also make the repudiation apply to the question ! of pensions. They had no right to be j bound down by false legislation of past days. (Applause.) Mr Boardman's motion was then put and adopted. Mr Theo. Cooper next came forward amidst applause, and moved, "That in order to facilitate economical administration tho present cumbroussystem of government should be so modified to suit the taxpaying power of the country." He referred to the remarks of the last speaker, and hoped that the time would never come when Englishmen would seriously consider the question of repudiation. (Apolause.) What they wanted was to get Sack to the system of local self-government as already suggested by Mr McManus. Until they changed the form of government they would not be in a much better position. He considered that a very large sum of money was wasted in unnecessary legislation. He liked the old provincial system and Road Boards, and not so much centralism. They could then reduce the number of members of the House and make the Legislature attend to the law-making, and not to jobbery and corruption. He thought that they had not gone far enough in the way of reducing the number of members. (Applause^ Then the affairs of the country would be carried out more expoditiously, and at less ' expense. He was not quite sure that) they should abolish the Legislative Council, but he did think that they should not be paid. (Applause.) Under the old provincial system there was not half the corruption practised as at present. He believed that the best thing which could happen to the colony would be if some master-mind like Cromwell should come to the House at Wellington and say, "Takeaway that bauble; 1 11 manage the colony myself. <? (Cheers. ) He must admit that retrenchment could be made in the ex penditure under the Education Department, but he warned them of the danger of interfering with' that vote,. which, of all others, gave the most in return ior its expenditure, more especially to the working man. Mr E. W. Burton spoke in support of the motion. He thought that something might be done in the way of retrenching in the Defence Department. He found that they had 200 officers tor 300 men. Surely something might be done there. Mr Pegler came forward, and said that he was a member of the Peace Association. (A voice: "Are you a lawyer?") Mr Pepler : "Thank God I am not." The speaker then spoke strongly against re pudiation, and hoped that they would all pay their debts, and if they could not, then lot them ask their children to pay them for them. What they wanted was " Peace, Retrenchment, and Reform. 5 ' The motion was then put and adopted. Mr G. M. Reed next came forward to move a resolution. He said that they were all agreed upon retrenchment, and that being the cape, they should be willing to forego some of their advantages. Some were nfraid of touching the Education Department, but he was not. He sincerely believed that the cost of their education was altogether beyond what the colony required to pay, nnd what the colony was able to pay. (Prolonged applause.) He thought that the colony was now in a position when they must leduco all needless expendituie. His proposal would effect, a saving of £130,000 per annum. Mr Reed then quoted statistics to show that New Zealand was paying out of all proportion with the Australian colonies. For school buildings alone they had expended out of borrowed money at the rate of £75,000 a - year on an average, while Victoria only spent £20,000 per annum under that head. He objected to sending children to school under seven years of age. He thought it was a positive injury to the children. (Applause. ) He spoke both as a parent and as an old teacher." By raising the school age I to seven they would save £75,000 per annum. He would also advocate that free education should end at the Fourth Standard, Those who continued after the Fourth Standard were generally the children of parents who could afford to keep them there. (Applause.) He then moved, " That in consideration of the financial position of the colony and necessity for further retrenchment, the school age should be v aise'd to seven years, and that free education should end at the Fourth Standard." That would save £130,000. Mr G. Peacocke peconded the motion. He considered that they should do what-" ever they could to lessen the cost of their national system of education, otherwise it might have to go. He was thoroughly in favour of raising the school age. The children were injured, and the only reason that they cried out against raising the school age was in order to get the capitation grant. The- retrenchment could be effected without injuring the efficiency of the institution. Mr W. Speight said that the meeting should not start) to discuss such a question at a quarter-past 10 o'clock. J 1 He would

move that.they should pass* on to the jlexfc business on tne order 'paper, and adjourn the motion of education until some future date. Mr Me Man us seconded the amendment. Mr Otto spoke very strongly * against touching the children's education. Mr Farrell spoke in support of Mr Speight's amendment. He considered that education -"/as the only tax^ which directly benefited the working man. He thought that if they cut off the education at. the Fourth Standard, then let it cut all round, and let them take away the endowments for secondary education. Dr. Laishley also spoke. He said that he was the first man who had advocated raising the school age to 7 years, and also to close it at the Fourth Standard. He con sidered that the present system could not stand at its present expenditure, and Mr Reed was a firm friend of the system in wishing to reduce the expenditure. He considered that the State had no light to interfere with secondary education. He hoped all friends of education would vote for Mr Reed's motion. Mr J. H. Upton spoke in favour of adhering to a thorough system of primary in. struction. He agreed that theschool age should be raised, but he did not agree with cutting off free tuition at the Fourth Standard. He thought that the endowments for secondary education should, instead of supporting schools, be used to provide free tuition to those children who show, by their industry and talent thai they are entitled to secondary education from the State. That would save something approaching £100,000. Mr John Lundon agreed with Mr Reed's motion, but he would vote for Mr Speight's amendment, as the matter required more serious attention. He would say, "Don't smuggle such an important resolution through at a late hour and with a thin audience. " He considered that the expenditure was immense. Their children were educated too far, and would not go into the country and make homes for themselves. (Applause.) Mr VV. Crowther also spoke. He said that there were many children in the Fourth Standard who could hardly write their names. He thought that Mr Reed's motion was too sweeping. He would move, as an 1 amendment, " That the school age be raised to six years, and any children attending school after passing the Fifth Standard should be charged for." They must make a fair and systematic reduction in expenditure, from the top downwards. Mr Reed briefly replied to the various objections raised to his proposals. The question was then put to the meeting, when Mr Speight's amendment was declared carried. Mr Reed demanded a division, and the Mayor asked the meeting to divide. This was promptly responded to, and an amusing scene occurred. The greatest enthusiasm resulted. Each side stood in a line and shouted out for waverers in the middle to come over. Any man who changed was received with cheers and parted with hisses. Men had to be appointed to count. After considerable trouble, at about 11 o'clock the Mayor declared the votes to be equal, and the motion accordingly lapsed. The result was received with cheers. Mr W. Duncan moved, and Mr W. Crowther seconded, "That copies of the resolutions adopted by this meeting be forwarded to the Government and the Auckland members with an earnest request that their best efforts will be used to secure the results they indicate. " This was adopted.