South Pacific Exhibition. INTERVIEW WITH MR TWOPENNY. (FROM STAR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT.)

Te Aroha News, Volume IV, Issue 194, 12 March 1887, Page 4 (Supplement)

South Pacific Exhibition. INTERVIEW WITH MR TWOPENNY. (FROM STAR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT.)

Dunedin, March 5, Ik accordance with your instructions I called upon Mr Twopenny at the "Daily Times " Office this morning, and asked him to give me any information he could as to the nature of his proposals. He replied that he would be very glad, and said perhaps he had better begin by telling me what his proposals were, and then I could put any questions that I wished, I assented, and Mr Twopenny went on :— " My idea is that the jubilee of the colony ought to be celebrated by an Exhibition, and that Auckland is the proper place to hold it at, because there never yet has been an Exhibition held there ; becauoe that is the district in which the first settlement took place ; because it ia the largest town in the colony, and is going ahead more than any other ; because an Exhibition there would open up a field for the consumption of our Southern manufactures ; and lastly, because it is the'only town that would be likely to pay something towards the cost of an exhibition. Besides this, Auckland offers peculiar facilities for lending importaut features and attractions to an ordinary Colonial Industrial Exhibition, which you could not use elsewhere. lam alluding, of course, to my idea of associating the South Sea Islands with the project, beBides which the representation of Maori life, which out to be very interesting, could only be made in Auckland, and Sir Julius Vogel's Maritime and Fisheries could be best brought into play there. I do not think I need tell you much about the nature of the Exhibition, because I have already set out at some length my views on this subject ; but this I may say— the morel think over it the more 1 am impressed with the importance of such an Exhibition, politically and practically, and the more confident I am that it could be made exceedingly interesting and attractive. Here I interjected, You mean the South Pacific business ? Mr Twopenny : Yes ; and the Maori Court, I waa talking yesterday to Mr Jas. Mills, of the Union Steamship Company, who is perfectly delighted with the idea. He cays he is convinced that if it were made known at Home in plenty of time it would attract shoals of tourists from England, to say nothing of thousands from Australia. Such an Exhibition would be so absolutely unique— it would be something that the world has never seen before, and relate to races in which English people have always taken a peculiar interest. Of course ifc would never do merely to fill a few bage of the exhibition with Island curios and call that a South Pacific Exhibition. What I propose would be a complete representation of Island manners and industries. should have to bring over native huts, or whatever they live in, fitted up just as thoy are in the Islands, and to bring over some natives themselves and get them to wear their mats, make their weapons and pursue their various industries in the Exhibition. They could be allowed to cell what they made, and it would pay them well. Then I should think we could manage native dances if they are not too indecent. In the huts, we could put wax figures of natives taken from the life in various pursuits in caees in which we could not procure the live articles. I, of course, know comparatively little about the Islands, but I am sure a number of peculiarly attractive features could be added to the ordinary exhibits which would form the basis of the show and the material for trade— canoes and all kinds of curioua things. It would, of course, add greatly to the intorcafc and importance of the South Pacific Department if we could get, as 1 am quite sure we could if the Government take the matter in hand promptly and move the Imporial Government on the subject— if we could got the French and German Governments to Bend exhibits from New Calodonin, the Loyalties, New Guinea, New Britain, and the rest. Fiji would look after her own interests, and so would Hawaii ; but I expect we should have to help Samoa and Tonga a nd the esmi- civilised island, and to rua the whole show for those which are entirely savage. After all, it would not coat much to do so, for all the exhibits could bo sold again for a great deal more than they cost ; in fact, I rather think that the Government would make a good spec out of thoir purchases, for yon would probably find a good many raueeum collections, and scientific folk would come out to ccc such a collection, and they would all want to take something away with thorn. But I am afraid I am running on too fast. Interviewer : ]Not at all ; I see the force of what you say at once. Pray go on. Mr Twopenny : Well, I think I have said enough about the attractiveness of the South Pacific part, and I don't think I need enlarge upon its political importance. Of course the Government ought to bring off as many chiefs aa they can, and hold a confab of natives as well as Maoris and Islanders, with Sir George Groy at the head. The Islanders would all be brought over in the Janet Nifloll, or we might get the use of a man-of-war for tho purpose. Of course we should get the British Pacific Squadron to attend the opening of the Exhibition, and som"o French, German, and Pvueaian war veseels. Very likely the French and Germans would send out scientific and commercial experts in men-of-war to report on tbe Exhibition, and I think they would be made to see that whilst the Pacific Islands are worth a great deal to us on account of our proximity, and that of Australia, they are worth very little to them. JJismarck^.l have reason to know, does not really believe in this colonising business. He wants to keep the Germans in their Fatherland, buthe looks upon it aa a sort of safety valve, also a goodcard in reserve against England. As for j the French, they are always changing their Government and their minda. if we can really convince them how much greater our interests in the Pacific are than theirs, and if, above all, wo can only convince our own Home Government of it and make the acquisition of the Islands an object of Imperial policy, the day will come when wo shall be able to buy out all foreign rights in the Pacific. Of course we shall have to wait for the opportunity, but an exhibition like thie, which will be described in the European papers, and should make some noise in the world (if we go to work in tho right way), will pave the way for our recognition as the head-quarters of the Pacific by public opinion in Europe as well as in the islands. But now to business. Here I interposed : Yes, it is about the cost of your proposal I am specially commissioned to inquire. Mr Twopenny : Well, I have not yet had time to make up a detailed estimate, and, to be frank, [I shall not put much faith in my own estimate when it is made. The interviewer laughed. Mr Twopenny : Yes, I daresay you think it ie a queer sort of statement! and it may make people afraid that I am a sort of budding Vogel ; but it is because I have planned and man

; : 7~~, y i aged three exhibitions of my own, and know how impossible it is to make more than the roughest estimates,that I say so. t is eaßy enough for a theorist to draw up an estimate, whioh looks very beautiful 00 paper, but a practical man knows the difficulties — and what ie more, he knows that if he under • estimates by any chance, the public and the Government will turn round and read him a lecture at the close of the Exhibition, and his reputation as an expert will be destroyed, although very probably the additional cost arises from causes impossible to foresee and to control. Thus in Adelaide, where I expected to make about a thousand pounds, I was pleasantly surprised at the end of the Exhibition to find over five thousand to my credit, notten thousand, as the papers would insist. Whereas at Christchurch, where, upon a similar calculation, I had expected to make about a thousand— that is a thousand a piece, my partner and I— we loßt about that sum, although our receipts were nearly three thousand in excess of our ostimate. Our calculations were put out by our having to make the building much larger and grander than we had expected, by the rise in the price of iron jußt before we purchased, and by the abominable price which the building fetched— only £2,700 for a building that cost £10,800, axid the people wrote to the papers declaring we had made money, and^ ought to contribute to the city charities. But I will give you something to go upon. Charging for space at a shilling a foot in Christchuroh, we took £1,800. In Auckland it would be unwise to charge more than 6d a foot, because your main object is to make the representation of colonial industries as large and perfect as possible. At this rate they took £800 for space in Wellington, I think we might safely take upour 'pens and write down £1,500 for Auckland. This is, of course, not charging for the South Pacific, Maori, Marine, and Fisheries' Arts or processes of manufacture exhibits, which it is more important to etimulate and attract than to get money out of. Ah in Christchurch everybody paid for space, £1,500 for space in Auckland would mean that your colonial industrial exhibits alone would occupy nearly as much space as the whole Christchurch Exhibition, half as much again would cover the Pacific and Maori exhibits, and we might roughly say that the building would require to be nearly twice as large as in Chrigtchurch. Fortunately, however, iron is about £18 a ton instead of £27, and labour and wood are both cheaper now. You would have to put up the building at railway speed ; still, if it is to be a new building you cannot put it up much under £15,000. But if you make arrangoments to buy the Melbourne Exhibition annexes, your building should not cost over £IU,OOO, and ought to sell for £4,000, leaving a net loss of £6,000, minus £1,500 for space, which leaves £4,500. say £5,000 to be on the safe side. Turning to the question of gate, money, we took £8,000, counting season tickets, in Christchurch. You ought to take nearly £10 000 in Auckland. This leaves up with £5,000 to meet the general expenses of the Exhibition, which means that both ends would very nearly meet— plus the cost of collecting anct arranging exhibits from the Islands, which I find it very difficult to estimate. That put down at £10,000, and you have a net deficit of £10,000. You can judge for yourself from the figures I have supplied about the Christchurch Exhibition, which was about twice the size of tho exhibition recently held at Wellington, whether I am estimating eanguinely. But of course I shall go into the matter in greater detail before the Auckland Chamber of Commerce. Here Mr Twopenny stopped, and I asked him when he pic^casd going to Auckland. Mr Twopenny replied : I hope to leave by tha Monday's express, which catches the next steamer with tho outward Sau Francisco mail at Lyttelton, reaching the M-inukau on tho following Thursday morning. I should like to lay my scheme before tho Chamber of Cuinuiarce on Friday or Saturday, returning by the Penguin on Monday by the West Coast route. This would -bring me back to Dunedia on Saturday, the 19th. I must, of couise, lost, no time, for it is very kind of my directors to let mo go at all, but 1 feel that an ounce of personal interview ia worth a ton of written papers. What I want ia— and I shall like you to draw particular attention to this— j for gentlemen to advance objections and difficulties that occur to them as much as pocsible through Ihecorrespondenco column** of tha Auckland paperd during tho yreek, co that in speaking to tho Chamber I may know exacbly what difficulties to meet and what points it is desirable that I should pay moct attention to That wad iho \v!;y I managed it in my tour through Australia, when agitatiug for tho holding of a Colonial Exhibition in London. If a plan is sjund, t;.e more it ie rritieicxd iho m re cle.irly ita merit* all come out, and 1 sh »U be glad to aas ver any questions. loterviowor: May I a -k if you would bo able to manage this Exhibition j oureelf ? Everything, I cake it, would depend upon good management. Mr Twopenny : No: I could not under take to manage it, tor the very good reason that I could nut afford to give up a good permanent appointment tor a temporary one. But if I were a-ked I should be glad to hold an honorary position iv connection with the undertaking, and put at tho disposal of tha management any experience I have in these matters ; but it is too early to talk about that. Interviewer : There is just one more quebtion I should 'ike to usk. Why do you \ ask the Auckland people to pay a fourth of 1 th*e cosfc of the Exhibition ? , Mr Twopenny : That ia no now idea of . mine. I have frequently urged it before. B It doea not eoem to me fair that tho whole 9 colony should be called upon to pay r the whole e::ponae of an undertaking B which will benefit on© part co much [ more than tho rost. A guarantee of a £4,000 U very little to ask from the 3 Auokland people \ot the advantages they q will derive from tho exhibition. Why, a there will be ten times that sum loft in r Auckland by tho visitors to the town from r Australia and England, bceides the rest of ! the colony will be much more ready to supr port the Exhibition if tht-y feel thai', Anck I land is paying an extra amount for it. You 1 deprive jealousy of itfc sung. Interviewer; Do you expect much support . in the rest of tho colony ? 1 Mr Twopenny •. Ifc looks like ib. Sir JU. t Stout id greatly taken with the idea. The f Governor w delighted with it. Everyone I „ speak to seems to be in favour of it. I have , pointed out to our manufacturers that, it is a a splendid chance for them to push their c goods in your market, and there is no really 1 strong feeling for having an exhibition c here. The thing lam moat afraid is that c if the idea ia not taken up at once it will be c appreciated by New South Waleß. Toe Jentrings Government lee themselves be c outwitted and forestalled by Mr Gillies and i- the Victorian Government over the Centennial International Exhibition, and Sir d H. Parke', who is a great believer [ in exhibitions and in the extension of a the Island trade of New South Wales, would jump at a, chance like this of returning Victoria a Roland for her Oliver k if New Zealand gave him a decent excuse d for saying that she had abandoned the idea. I This ended the conversation, and after it thanking Mr Twopenny for his courtesy I n withdrew.