REPRESENTATION BILL.

Te Aroha News, Issue 166, 21 August 1886, Page 2 (Supplement)

REPRESENTATION BILL.

Exalting Scene In the House. August 14, ON^the motion to go into committee on the Representation Bill, the Premier said he propoaedfoo >amend^BBe|io^ 3|in^ the? bill. UAless tKepoDuliftio^b^ia would d«6lin|''ta go on wlth^the bill, because he believed this , was/ ttfeobly fair.basia of representation. He proposed to .allow a difference of 500 in districts in which there was a preponderance of males. Me read "a memo: from 'tKe'Registrar-General, stat ing that the necessary information would not be ready till the close of the year, and* consequently,, the. Board, .could ,not com-, mence their labours until the beginning of next year at the earliefet. /Under these and other circumstances, andfat this advanced period of the seasqn, would nob go on with the bill unless there was a tangible majority for committal, so as to give him a prospect of getting the measure through. Sir .Robert concluded by stating that the delay in bringing the bill forward was in consequence of his illness. Mr Montgomery said that when the bill was passed in 1880, there was a distinct understanding that another bill' should be passed when the ' census was taken this year. He thought that understanding should be carried out, even though his part of the colony should suffer by it. There was a probability of a vote being passed adverse to the Government in the early part of next session, and th£«* afforded additional reason for the readjustment being effected before an appeal was made to the country. Mr Macandrew said if Parliament was to expire by effluxion of time there was no necessity for passing this biU during the session. Next session would do equally well, and he therefore proposed '" That, in .view of the late period of the' session, it was cot desirable to proceed further with tha bill this year, but that Parliament be called together for the despatch of business not later than the first of May next year." Mr Taylor seconded the resolution, and expressed the opinion that the country should have an opportunity of considering the measure. Mr Reid aeked the Premier whether he thought the number of members would be increased. The Premier said ho did not believe the number of members would be increased, and if they were not increased he Would aofcdiop the bill. He hoped the House would meet in April, and thought three months quito enough time for the Board to make a division. Mr Reid eaid he came here intending to vote for a reduction of members, and with that view he supported the eecond reading of the bill, but the Premier had frankly told them tlmb this would not be effected. It seemed also that if tho bill was passed nexb session, that would Buffice to gefc its provisions carried into law in time for the next general election. Thorefore he a&ked why this undue haste. He thought the matter might stand over till the electors had had time to give an expression of opinion on it. After the assurance just given by the Premier, he had come to the conclusion that it would be a waste of time to proceed further with the measure this session. Mr Bruce had his usual say in favour of a seamen's franchise, and expressed the hope that he would not come back single-handed after the next election to fight. He approved of the bill sufficiently to vote for it going into Committee. He only regarded tho measure as a temporary solution of the representation question, and hoped to Fee a modification of the Hare ajetem introduced. As to the unemployed cry, he had once belonged to the unemployed himself, and he thought tthe casaa of deserving poverty existing in the colony were few indeed, compared with those absolutely unde- | serving. He opposed the amalgamation of city constituencies, because he feared ifc would unduly increase the power of the cities. One reason which induced him to vote for going into committee was that if the Government were defeated next year on the address in reply and a dissolution followed the election would be conducted on the sam 9 basis as existed two years ago. Mr Hurathouse inquired what was the aubetantial majority the Premier required to take the bill into Committee and pass it. The Premier : About five. Mr Bryce said he was informed that both of the Government whips had been actively canvassing against the bill, and seeing that it was a Government measure that was peculiar. fMr McKenzie : Not both, only one of them.] Then it wps stated that one or more members of the Government were canvassing against the bill. There were some peculiar rumours on the subject. They were asked^ why not go to a division at once, seeing that the Government by their own efforts had eecured a majority against a Government bill. If thig measure were not carried, would the Government fail to bring in a Redistribution of Seats Bill next session ? The Premier said that, whatever was the fate of the present bill, he would next year bring in a bill of the came principle and almost the same words. He would not consent to any other basis than a population basis. Captain Sutter pointed out that tho duration of next Parliament could be extended, with a view of passing a Representation Act next soasion.ln order that the country might have a voice in the matter he should vote for the amendment.

The Division.— The Bill Defeated. The question was put that the House do go into committee on the Representation BUI. Ayes, 36 j Noee, 39. Ayes, 36. Atkinson Johnston Ballance Lake Barron Locke Bruce Macarthur Bryce Mitcheleon Buchanan Montgomery Buckland, W. F. Moss Conolly Newman Dargaville Peacock Fergus Richardson, G. F. Fisher Rolleaton Fitzherbert Stout Fulton Thompson Grey Tole Hakuen© ' Trimble Hamlin Waksfield Hirst, H. Whyfee Hobbs Wilson Noks, 39. Beron McKenzie, J. Bradehaw McMillan Brown Menteath Buckland, J, C. O'Callaghan t . Qndman -, OJConnor, , t ." Qowan J ,Pratt Dodeon „ , Pyke ', ' '. Duncan * , . . Reete Fraier ' Reid . l Gore -t - ■* -„ Richardson, E. Guinneeß Samuel flatoh ' Seddon Hurethouee Steward} W. J.

Joyce ' Butter Kerr , r Taylor Lance k Thomson, J. W. Larnach Vogel Leveßtam Walker Maoandrew t[oit ?J , # •' *.. ;; r j coble Mackenzie;/; Ivess ' % ,J /.Orufn^f T -JL Harper ;! t „ f ;Powpie*;Stewart <•; holmes .^ .. Beetham 1 ;.- ; Turnbull" j* ~ ''• ,'- Smith Pere Burst Coster •There was a scene of wild excitement when the- result of the division was announced. Major Atkinson, who was .'received, with; ; .great cheering' by the supporters of the bill, said that under -ordinary "circumstances he should have been taken greatly by surpriee at this division-, ' ' but • ; after' 'the" extraordinary proceedings that they had witnessed from the present Government, he confessed that he was not da surprised as he felt he ought to beVfdr he ventured to say that no more disgraceful scene had overtaken place in this House than hed just taken place. (Cheers ) ' The Premier had declared that the bill was ' necessary in the interests of the country, and yet his measure was defeated by tne vote of three of his own Ministers. Coujd they believe, after that, the Premier would stand by his word next session, and bring down the bill' and stand by it? Where was his backbone? Where was his principle? He had led the House and country to believe he was sincere in passing the measure. If the were sincere, how was it possible that he could continue to work with his colleagues ? He would ask hon. members to recollect what occurred the other day when the Treasurer complained that the Minister for Marine voted against him on a Government measure. This was not the only terrible exhibition they had eeon of the so called Constitutionist Government. The Premier was brimful of principle, but the very instant that principle was applied to himself ho allowed his colleagues vote to against him, Was not that bringing Constitutional Governments into disrepute ? He afiermed that the country would not believe the Premier after his exhibition of that night, and said that his backbone would have to be stiffened during the recess He regretted the speech of the hon. member for Inangahua. It did not do ciedit to the House. He asked wag the hon. gentleman prepared to see the bill passed next session. Mr Menteith : !No, not at all.' Major Atkinson : That is to say, the West Coa^t is to be represented ot double the rate of the other constituencies — that is the hon. gentleman's idea of patriotism, that the West Coast digger is to have twice the representation in that House of citizens from other parts of the colony. Next session a dozen men could present the Representation Act. (The Premier: Tso.) The Premier said " JS'o," but he knew very little evidently about constitutional usages or Parliamentary governmont. In ISBI, did the then Government shrink from the same difficulties which the Premier has now to face? It was known that the Premier had never been the head of his Government. The Minister for Mines had told him that he would go to heaven before he would vote in a particular direction (Laughter), and, one after another, Ministers had walked into the lobby against him, and then he sat still. As Premier he was not master of the Government nor leader of the House He (Major Atkinson) told the hon. gentleman, painful as it was to do ao, that he would have to stiffen hi 3 back, for to be truly great he must; be firm and sincere in the Cabinet and in his place in the House, where he eat as a leader. When would they pass a Keprcsentation Act? {.\n hon. member: Wait till you g< t into office.) When he was in office his colleagues had to vote with him or leave the Treasuiy benches, and when one of his whips disagreed with them he ceased to act. There was no object to be gained by relegating the matter to the constituencies, who had already made up their minds on the rnatfor. By his action the Premier had degraded himeelf with the colony. He had never seen such a thing, and ventured to say (hdt such a thing had never before occurred on a bill of the lirst importance aa a measure introduced hy the JPremier to be dof Gated by votes of three of his own' colleagues The Premier had shown himself wanting fn backbone from the beginning to the end of the session. The loss of the bill wa* of comparative unimportance as compared with the degradation which that night's exhibition had brought on the country. If the Premier had known his duty to that House he would not have allowed his whips to work against him, and his colleagues to vote against him. (Cheers.) SirJ. Vogel said that if he had been in doubt as to whether he had given hia vote conectly, the violent passion into which tho member for Egmont had got should have satisfied him on tho point. He was not aecnetonied to look to that hon, gentleman for advice, but it must be apparent to the House that tlia persistency with which he had persecuted the Premier really meant : " I will come over to you if you will only accept me " (Laughter.) The hon. member had Shown intense jealousy to him (Sir Julius), and fead praised the Premier in a most fulsome manner. Last session he did the came thing, and it was well known to the House, and to the country that he would like to break up the Government and form a coalition with the Premier. The Government did not want to pass the Representation Actby the aid of the member for Egmont. (Major Atkinson : You will never carry it without.) That hon. gentleman was leader ot the Opposj f ion,ana if the Premier had pressed the bill this cession he would have been at the mercy of the Oppofition. When the saw that, he told the House that unless he had a substantial majority he would not proceed with the bill As regarded his (the Treasurer'?) vote, he I was delighted that the hon. member had ! got into such a passion about it ; ho would explain why he had voted against tho measure. It was because he did not think there was time to carry through so importact a bill now when it could come up again next cession, and be discussed in a reasonable manner. He bad merely voted for delay, and was prepared to take tho responsibility of that vote. In conclusion, he advised Major Atkinson to organise his own following and not endeavour to interfere with the following ot the Govern ment. The Premier said he had never promised to push the* bill through until tho second reading came on. He wished to have the bill parsed, because he thought it was better to have it out of the way, and |he was- prepared to allow the North Island ten members of it were entitled to it. A number of the Government supporters who had- voted for the second reading had done ao because it was his bill, but they were not prepared to support it in Committee if he had gone on with the bill. The result would be that ib would not, be hie, but that' of his opponents/ He {should have stood by a -population basis, and if beaten on that, would have moved; to report progress. If he was spared, a bill of the same class would be brought forward next cession, and he would

do his best to get it passed. He felt that they would not get rid of local prejudices until there were no more loans to be divided. Ho did not consider that the whips should surrender their own individuality, and it was not to be expected that the Government would together on all, occasions. He would pledge himself that a. similar measure would* be, brought down' nextsession.ff $ W ¥ *f'% ' s Xi Z ] Mr Dargayille : ■' As a, government 1 measure? '£ f, *»i t'f .-.; '-'£ «•'; y;The Preniierrj Yes/^: as 'a .Government meSsure. *'"" '&" '■$ V" ' T '/ ■«, Mr I^veatam pointed out that the hon. gentleman had been most unfortunate in the attempts made. He denied the assertion of .the.niemb^lqrXleraldine that it was understood since the beginning of the session that the Representation Bill should be dealt with this session. The amendment moved by Mr Moss was. negatived on the voices Mr Macandrew's amendment was then put as ,a substantive motion, and carried.

River Dredging. Mb LarnaohV scheme of dredging riverbeds for gold has baen shelved for another year. The vote of £2,000 for the purpose was struck off the Estimates on the voices last night. The vote for subsidies to goldflelds' roads was retained on division.

Rotorua. Water Supply, While the Estimates were under discussion last night- Mr Moaa objected to the expenditure of £6,000 for the water aupply to Rotorua and £4,000 for improvements to the district coming out of the funds of the colony. He thought it should be made a charge on the rents received by natives, which he believed amounted to £3,000 per annum.

Forest Department. A determined effort was made laat night to reduce the State Forests and Agricultural vote of £6,804. The amount includes a sum for a School of Agriculture al Whangarei. Mr Hnrsthouee moved to reduce the amount by £4,500. A number of Southern members opposed the vote. Major Atkinson, being one of the strong opponents, eaid the land was not suitable for agricultural pursuits. The vote waa retained after a long discuesion by 33 to 23, Mr Lake voting with the minority. An angry fight occurred yesterday afternoon over the vote of £2,000 for services by Sir Wm. Fox as Commissioner under the Vest Coast Settlement Ac(. Sir Julius Vogel agreed that the amount was not a gratuity or , com passionate allowance. It waa merely payment for work and labour well performed, and the amount was an exceedingly moderate one. Eventually the item was retained by 25 to 16.

Supplementary Estimates. Consideration of the Supplementary Fstimates occupied several hours last evening. The item ti) gira effect to the resolution of the House on the claim of F. D. ■ Rich and others for compensation towards cost of opening Shag Point Coal Mino. £3,000 waa retained by 31 to 11, The propoaal to grant a subsidy of £1 to £2 up to £450 for auriferous cement crushing machine was struck out on the casting vote of the Chairman of CommitteGB. The other items passed.

Cost of Prisoners. The coei per head per aunum of each prisoner in Kew Zealand is £53 9s 9d, while in Victoria it is only £38 19a 9d. Th ; s discrepancy was brought under the notice of the House by Mr Hatch, but the Mini«ter for Justice explained that the number of gaols in New Zealand was so much in advance of that of Victoria as to cause the extra expenditure, more particularly the keeping up of several small gaols in small districts.

A Judgeship for Sir F. WMtaker. Amongst other lobby gotsip, it is stated that Sir Fred. Whitaker, M.L.C., has been approached by a Ministerial supporter with a view of ascertaining whether he would be willing to accept one ot the judgeshipa of the colony. I give the rumour for .what it us worth.

Representation. A new pha^o in connection with the representation question has been developed by Mr W. F. Buckland. The hon. member for Franklin North has pointed oufc that the Representation Act of 1881 was merely a tentative measure intended to insure a redistribution of eeate, and for that roasou expires by effluxion of time on December 31, 1887. If, therefore, a dissolution wero to take place next year before another Act were passei, the Government would have to fall bae* on the old Act of 1575, which, curiously enough, has not been repealed. Talking of representation reminds mo that it has been determined to boldly fight the question of Town v. Country The country members intend to leave no stone unturned to get concessions granted to them. Some of them think that the best solution of the difficulty would be proportionate representation in accordance with the nature of the district, and one proposal which is sure to find a good deal of favour will be : For town seats the quota of population to be 6,000 per member ? for, country seata in settled districts, 5,000 ; for country seats in 'sparsely populated districts, 4,000. It is quite certain that the Houso will not swallow any population basis on hard and fast rules, and had Sir R. Stout's biil got into Committee on Friday last, there would havo been a pretty clear indication of opinion on that point.