EVINING SITTING.

Te Aroha News, Volume IV, Issue 156, 12 June 1886, Page 2

EVINING SITTING.

j , i t -, Hill* Adyftpo**, •'t i, %„ ,u l^riO'pqjTjNOßjmovecfj^ t^oo^d Keft'ding.i ?Bffl, whioh was intiMced J'mli

The Premier indicated that he would mpvg J^Ab^iiitcepgaxy.restrictions in Cojxuj, laniste©, |na t%e Q[eoon[d reading wasajureea At the request of Sir George Grey, the eeoond reading of his Bill providing for Eleotive Waste Lands Boards was deferred till June 24th. Colonel Fbasbr brought forward his Fjsh Auction Bill, whioh Iw said was to enapl'e^ Qghermon to^have^hejir fisji cold at any, 1 '}»Qur, andv^!^BSftef.Bp^cfal 'licences *at nominal charge, i, j'*V f l \\ ' . ' secood read|pgvswaB agreed to on the voiqes. f r f v *, : \' { '

[' Cheap 'Mone^y for Farmers. A debate followed on the Land Association Bill, the second reading of which was moved by Mr Ivess, He urged that it was incumbent on the State to assist agriculturists who are retarded in their operations .by the present high ratea of interest to take advantage of lower rates in England in raising loanßon their holdings At present; invest was aiieavy charge <on the farmers. The extent of private indebtedness on agricultural holdings in Auckland is £2,709,216': New .Plymouth, . £459,065 ; Wellington! £2,518,986; Hawke'e Bay, £1,614,239 1 Nelson, £380,457; Marlborough, £191,547 ) Canterbury, £9,284,871; Otago, £5,336,691 Southland, £3,523,139; Westland, £71,330[ The total exceeded twenty-six millions; The principles of the bill, which have already been published, were explained at length. , Sir Julius Yog el considered the measure a complicated one, and feared the difficulty of working would be greit, if not pro-! hibitive. ' Too much work was thrown ori the Registrar. He did not think they, could give any further right of issuing notes, and he regretted the fact that the right held by banks at present was not subject to renewal. He held that the ten-1 dency at present was to lower the rate of interest, and he knew of large' sums out at 5 per cent., and in one instance as low as 3% per cent. The Go vernment would have brought in a bill to borrow such a sum as would enable them to lend small amounts to farmers, but that they believe such a scheme would have been distasteful in England, and would have injured the credit of the colony. He suggested that the debate be adjourned, and on the motion of Mr Wilson, this was agreed to, j Sir Ge«rge Grey's Laud Bill. Sir George Grey moved .the second reading of bis Land for Settlement Bill. He argued that Wjß have estates of enormous magnitude wbioh were unable in obtaining 1 sections for settlements. Some large! estates in the South were now pledged to a • big company. Again, it was almost impos-' eible to sell land, and some of these estates .wereburdened with heavy mortgages. Under this bill estates would be taken over- at their present valuation under the Property T|ax. The Government could purchase these estates, or take them at present under the Public Works Act, and by cutting them up strong inducement would be offered to farmers to come from England and settle in thie colony. Funds would be provided by the Land Boards. After six months' residence the selector would only have to pay interest on the cost of his farm, and a small per centago to pay the cost of management of the scheme. In point of fact it would provide a small sinking fund. It had been said that speculation would follow the introduction of thia scheme, but the answer to that was that any individual would only be allowed one such farm. The, scheme would completely prevent the acquisition of large properties. He knew several young couples and intending young couples who wou^d take up farms on the terms provided by thia bill, -while mechanics inhabiting the towns would take farms for their children. He firmly believed that if means were provided for the people to get one farm, an agricultural and industrial population would -be raided, consisting of those who had a love for rural pursuits. If the natives were given a fair value, their lands could also be acquired. From conversation he had had with farmers from Australia, who were anxious to reside here, he had been informed that in consequence of the high price asked by owners for their land, they had been prevented from settling in the colony. The Premier said that in last year's Land Bill the principle had been established that where private lands vreve required for settlements, the State had a right to pur> chase the same, and he agreed with the general principle of the bill now before the House. But the member for City East had not been able to frame a measure in detail which could be given effect to. Members should not be led away by the idea that we had not a large quantity of Crown lands available for settlement. Exclusive of native lands, there were twenty-five millions of acres of good land still in the colony belonging to the Crown,, and eight or -ten millions of native lands j in all, at the lowest compilation, thirty-three millions. To carry out the bill, three millions worth of land bonds would have to be floated. It would be deluding people to cay such a scheme would bring a great rush of agricultural settlers. Another objection was that those who had purchased landsfrom the Government would be open to have charges <of corruption brought against them. Their land did not revert to the Government, but after five years farmers had the right' to become freeholders. That was no settlement of the land question, and the eternal system of purchase might, go on for ever. If the State were to acquire the right to purchase lands, and he did not oppose that principle, it ought to have such control over the lands bb to have future control over their occupancy. . Exflerjtthat were done','the bjll was worse than useless. As to the financial aspect of the bill, millions- would have to be floated in the London market. .Tjalk about borrowing t * This was the wildest' scheme ever suggested, and would neither get over the depression nor cause farms to be settled. The hon. member did pot propose a great rent, but merely, interest on , the price of the land., TJhe introduction of this bill would ehxjw that .the, freehold system «had broken down. ("No, no.") The admißsipn that there was necessity for the State to deal with the tenure of land- showed'that the tenure was on an unsound basis. He agreed, with the, -principle of the bill, but before it could be made workable it would hav,e!to be itemed inside;out in committee.' ,Mr, .Hub^thousb -agreed with 1 the; principle' of the'bill, bu.t\ failed (p, see, how,, its details could be given effect to on principles that!-the Premier, the mover, and the, speaker held in accord. ■ •ftfx^COßiE Mo^ljsnzie said the mat? ob-> jection'to the "bill waft^aib, there w^a ,8,0, much State' lain'd, still available for settle- > ment. He disagreed ; from' the Premier that; .the introduction df,< this bill' 1 showed ,t;ha£ „the freehold,; system, had ; brokeni 'dqwn'/ \ The' ( was not, the re-,j sujti 1' of 'sojiie ' pressing laecessj^ , ,BV t affirmed that there was np necessity at the; [present stage of I New history forajbjll. r .H&idid n nptj.: aßprQV£;jpf jtbec prinoipla, and would vote against it. n* Mr jEtOLLEBTON said the, Government| ) pojiby of'borrowing without inducemerity tt v .©^igrfttionf ,was<'i aui policy, s thati must break ,down? * i and , hence? ■ neceseity ar<j>se almost immediately, for making some^, provision with regard to lands already

alienated from the Crown. He urged that lands required-for .polopieation should be tajksh under { conditions eimilar^to'ithat under which lands or 1 "railway purposes were taken, otherwise the position of Ministers would be unbearable. Sir, Julius Vogel said the House should be glad of the opportunity of discussing the ejbiy, which was a great advance of real practical value in the way^-Qjt^ipromoting settlement. The drawback of "the colony was the great amount pf land locked up, notwithstanding .thattits Character afforded every inducement for. settlement. > No, one could travel from^ JDunedin to Christohurch without noticing, that, while -.there were signs of cultivation ~ for miles and miles there were no signs of settlement He was not satisfied that the machinery of the bill would carry out the noble objects aimed at. He urged the removal of restriction now attending the purchasing of Crown lands. If the bill paved the way to a larger amount of settlement as he believed it * would, the other "advantages the hon. member claimed for it would not be wanting, viz., that it would make property more saleable, and would attract to the colony farmers from other countries and neighbouring colonies. Mr Bruce regretted to say Jhat if <the measure were pushed to a division he must vote against it. He said he regretted this because they all knew that the honourable member for Auckland East had bestowed ,a large amount of labour on the bill, and believed it necessary for the welfare of the colony. The principle appeared under the present condition of things to be absolutely impracticable, and the bill occarioned unwarrantable interference with the rights of property. Major Steward could conceive of no question in which the country would take more interest than that under notice. It was no new thing for him to advocate something in this direction. Provided the Legislature passed wise and liberal land laws, and placed people on the land in a condition of prosperity, they would have solved the question of colonisation, and might be excused from making mistakes in other directions « with somewhat disastrous results. Why. was. it that there were unemployed in the various centres of the South Island ? The reasons might be many, but one undoubtedly was the aggregation of estates in the hands of a few perpons, thus preventing the natural extension of settlement which was desirable. He suggested that £50,000 or £100,000 might be expended in trying the experiment of purchasing land and distributing it for settlement. Mr Buckland supported the bill. There was a growing feeling in the country that there was something wrong because the lands were not properly managed. He did not believe that the people were anxious to settle on the lands. Mr Kerr said there were plenty of lands available for settlement, and he concluded an amusing speech, in the course of which he gravely informed the House that he had lately travelled Bhipmate with 73 head of cattle, by moving that the bill be lead a second time this day fifty years. Meesrs Dodson and Turnbull supported the principle of the measure, and would support its second reading. At 12.20, Major Atkinson asked the Government if they proposed to close the debate to night. The question was a most important onej and should be fully discussed. The Premier said the debate could be continued on Thursday w eek, at 7.30, but eventually the debate was adjourned till Friday, the Government to then say when the discussion should be continued.