IMPORTANT MEETING OF TE AROHA DOMAIN BOARD. Further Concessions to Robson. and Party. THE DEBATE ON THE BILL. MR TREVELYAN'S STATEMENT.

Te Aroha News, Volume III, Issue 154, 15 May 1886, Page 2

IMPORTANT MEETING OF TE AROHA DOMAIN BOARD. Further Concessions to Robson. and Party.

THE DEBATE ON THE BILL. MR TREVELYAN'S STATEMENT.

A special meeting of the Thermal Springs Domain Board was held Wednesday evening laet, commencing at 8 o'clock, to hear a report on the mineral waters and an application from Mr Geo. Robson. Present : Mcsts G. Wilson, (chairman), C. Airier (secretary), G. Lipsey, T. Gavin, and E. Quinn. Mr Robson being called upon by the Chairman to make his statement, said : They were all aware of the existing agreement, under which the sole right of the overflow from the springs had be«m tiansferred to him. (By this agreement Mr Robson had the sole right to the overflow granted him for 10 years :— lst year, no charge; 2nd & 3rd years. Id per gallon; 4th year, 2cl per gal lon ; sth year r 3d per gallon. At the end of the Ist" five years the royalty to be leaffixed by the Board, Mr Robson having the option of cancelling the agreement, should he think the new royalty too much). Mr Robson proceeded to state that since then he had seen and talked the matter over with a Melbourne gentleman, who told him that if the Domain Board made a concession in price, and gave a longer lease, he could probably raise capital to the extent of £2000 to £3000 to float a company towork the undertaking. Since the party referred to had returned homo, he had received a letter from him, in which he stated that if a lease of the waters for fifteen or twenty years were given, and the royalty reduced, he thought there would be no diflici^ty in floating the company. The cost of bottles, getting up the waters, etc., was considerable, and he ihouj»ht It would be a good thing for the district and New Zealand if a company were formed, and be an advertisement for the place ; whilst a large output- would yield a considerable revenue even at Id per aallon. He had not the money to go in for advertising largely, and could see nothing in it for a. company. His., friend, in a letter, stated it would take from £3000 to £500 C before the business could be undertaken. Mr Lip^ey said the matter was worthy of consideration, and if thu Board saw fi> to grant alO yea. s T lease he thought it would bo a good thing for the place, on the condition that £2000 or £3000 was expended in working the affair. Mr Robson : A plant would have to be erected, stores at Melbourne, etc. Moved bv Mr LipM'y, seconded by Mr Wilson, "That the concession bo granted for 10 year^, the price to be reduced to Id per gallon, provided Mr Robson satisfies us the amount mentioned will be expended. The motion was not put. M>- Robson. in reply to Mr Gavin, stated that up to the present time they had bo* tied about 300doz, they had only very lecently got the bottlea. Mr Robson said he would not be preparod to go into it at all to any extent, even if he had the vs.pitul to do so, on a live yearh' lease. Mr Quinn : If I remember rightly, when this right to the overflow was given to Mr Robson last year, a great deal of dissatisfaction was expressed by the general public here respecting the matter. It was then granted on a sliding scile, by which the pi ice within first five 3 ears would be raised from Id to 3d per gallon. Now, without giving the public a chance of knowing ibout it, we are asked to grant the solo right to dispose of these waters for ten years, and to reduce the price for the whole term to a penny per gallon. Mr Robson was bound by the existing agreement to advertise the waters, but as far as I know he has never yet spent one penny in advertising them. I consider it would ba well for this Board to consider are they doing right to give the exclusive right to the mineral waters, to one individual, and that too without giving any one else a chance of making* an offer for the privilege. The Board under the present agreement would get as much revenue out of it in five j r ears probibly, as they would in ten years at the proposed 1 1 luced rate. Mr Gavin : I do not see how we can get at the whole thing to-night, at a minute's notice. The first thing is to know we shall get a guarantee that a certain sum would be spent in the place, in plant, etc., so much in advertising etc. Mr Quinn : As a member of this Board, I say this matter •cq'uires deliberation. I heard Mr Peel who applied for it before Mr Robson say, "He wis hood winked out of it." If you could possibly make this water pay you at 3d a gallon, why would it not pay a company to dispose of it in larger quantities and pay say 2d. Mr Wilson : If we can introduce Melbourne capital here, wo shall do a very wise thing. The Melbourne trade would probably exceed the whole o£ the Ne.v Zealand trade. No doubt if it were put on the market to-morrow Auckland capitalists would not take the matter up as Melbourne capitalists would. Mr Robson : In any case I do not ex pect to make any mone\' out of it ; and I certainly do not purpose going in to it for a less term than ten or iilteen years. Mr Quinn : Will Mr Robson gives us any guarantee as to amount of. revenue the Boaid Avould receive by granting the concession ? Mr Robson : Certainly I shall not givo an}' guarantee as to the amount. Mr Quinn : Then you can diive a coach and four through this agreement, and bottle aa much or as little as you like. Mr Robson : What do you think the company want the water for, of course they expect to make out of it, and it will be to their interest to push the sale. Mr Lipsey : I cannot see that there is any hurry for a day or too about settlingthu matter, and \vu can meet again Saturday.

' similar hardships, he believed the people of "those countries would resort to means similar to those the Irish had used to ventilate their grievances. IParnellite cheers.] Coercion was admitted to have been a failure for the past fifty-three years, only two of which had been wholly free from repressive legislation. Coercion, unless stern and unbending, and under an autocratic government, must always fail. Such coercion England should never resort to until every other means had failed. What was the basis of the whole mischief wss the fact that the law was discredited in Ireland, It came to the Irish people with a foreign aspect, and the alternative to coercion waa to etrip the law of ite foreign character and invest it with a domestic character. [Loud cheers from the Irish members ] Ireland, though represented in Parliament numerically equal with England or Scotland.'was really not in the same position politically. England made her own laws, Scotland had been encouraged to make her own laws as effectually, and had six times her present representation. The consequence was thab the mainspring of the law in England and Scotland was felt to be English or Scotch. The mainspring of the law in Ireland was not felt by the people to be Irish. He therefore deemed it little better than mockery to hold that the state of law which' he had described conduced to the real unity of this great, noble, worldwide empire.

Legislative Independence Not Disunion. " Something must be done," continued Mr Gladstone, " something is imperatively demanded from us to restore in Ireland the first conditions of civil life, the free course of law, the liberty of every individual in the exercise of every legal right, their confidence in law and their sympathy with law, apart from which no country can be called a civilised country." What then was the problem before himf? It was this : How to reconcile imperial unity with the diversity of legislatures. Air Grattaa held that these purposes were reconcilable. More than that, he demanded the severance of Parliaments, with a view to the continuity and everlasting unity of the empire. Was that an audacious paradox ? Other countries had solved the problem and under much more difficult circumstances. "We ourselves," said he, •' might be said to have solved it with respect to Ireland. During the time that Ireland had a separate Parliament, did it destroy the unity of the British empire ?"' (Cheers.) Mr Gladstone then painted to the case of Norway and Sweden, which countries were, he said, united upon a footing of strict legislative independence and coequality. Then there wa3 the case of Austria and Hungary, and with regard to those countries he asked whether the condition of Austria at the present moment was not more perfectly solid, secure and harmonious than it was prior to the existing condition between that country and Hungary. It could not be questioned that her condition was one of solidity and safety compared with that of the time when Hungary was making war upon her.

Ireland's Right to Self-Government. "The claim of Ireland to make laws for herself wa3 never denied," continued Mr Gladstone, "until the reign of George 11. The Parliament of G rattan was as independent in point of authority as it could he." The Government was not about to propose a repeal of the union until they had settled what was the essence of the union. He defined the essence of the onion to be the fact that whereas before the union thero were two separate and independent Parliaments, • after union there was but one. To speak of the dismemberment of the empire was in this country monstrous and an absurdity. The fault of the administrative system of Ireland was that its spring and source of action was English. (Cheers. ) The Government, therefore, felt that a j settlement of the question was to be found j by establishing a Parliament in Dublin j (Irish cheers) for the conduct of the business of both a legislative and an administrative nature. The political economy of three centuries must be reconciled. There should be an equitable distribution of imperial burdens. Next, there must be reasonable safeguards for the minority ; and why could not this minority in Ireland takecare of itself? Be had no doubt about its ability to do that when we have passed through the present critical period and been disarmed of the jealoueie3 with which any change was approached. But for the present there were three classes of people whom they were bound to consider: First, the class Connected with the land ; the second, civil servants and officers of the Government in Ireland; and the third, the Protestant njaority. The speaker could not admit the claim of the Protestant minority of Ulster or elsewhere to rule on questions which were for the whole of Ireland. Several schemes for the separat9 government of Ulster had been submitted to him. One was that the Ulster Province should be excluded from the operations of the present bill ; another was that a separate autonomy should be provided for Ulster ; and a third suggested that certain rights should be received and placed under the control of provincial councils. No one of these proposals had appeared to the Government to be so completely justified by its merits or by the weight of public opinion iv its favour as to variant the Government in including it in their bill. However, they deserved fair consideration, and the discussion that would follow the introduction of the present bill might lead to the discovery of one plan which had a predominating amount of support, and the Government would do its best to adopt the plan that seemed likely to give general satisfaction.

"What the Irish Parliament Did. Referring to the great settlement of 1782, Mr Gladstone said: "It was not a real settlement, and why ? Was it claimed that it prevented a real settlement being made? [Irish cheers ] No, it was the mistaken policy of England listening to the pernicious voice and claims of ascendancy. The Irish Parliament laboured under great disadvantages, yet it had in it the spark of the spirit of freedom and it emancipated the Roman Catholics of Ireland, when the Roman Catholics of London were still unemancipated. It received Lord Fitz William with opon arms, and when, after a brief career, he was recalled to England, the Irish Parliament registered their confidence in him by passing a resolution desiring that he should administer tho Government. Lord Fitz "William had promoted the admission of Roman Catholics into the Irish Parliament ; and there was a spirit in that Parliament, which, if it had free scope, would have done noble work, and probably would have solved all the lriah problems, and have saved the Government infinite trouble. , _

The Government Plans. The speaker said be would now pass to the plan of how to giro Ireland a legislature to deal with Ir|ah as distinguished from Imperial affairs. The speaker thought it would be perfectly clear that if Ireland was to. have a dqmestic legislature the -Irish peers and Irish members could not come to Parliament to control English aud Scotch affairs. (Cheers.) Then with regard to the question .whether Irish

representatives should come to the House of Commons for the settlement of Imperial affairs, he thought that it could not bo done. He had therefore arrived at the conclusion that the Irish members and Irish peers ought not to sit in the palace of Westminster. [Oh, oh, and cheers]. How were the Irish people to be taxed if they had legislators in both countries ? He believed that Great Britain would never impose upon Ireland taxation without representation. Then there would come another question which would raise a , practical difficulty, and that is : Are w© ! to give up tho fiscal unity of the empire ? j He stood upon the substantial ground that to give up "the fiscal unity of the empire would be a public inconvenience and mis Fortune. It would be a great misfortune for Great Britain, and a greater misfortune for Ireland. Ho conceived that one escape from that dilemma would be such an arrangement aa would give the Imperial Government authority to levy custom duties and such excise duties as were immediately connected with the customs. The conditions of such an arrangement were : First, that the general power of taxation over and above those particular duties should pass into the hands of the domestic legislature in Ireland ; second, that the proceeds of the customs and excise should be held for the benefit of Ireland, and for the discharge of the obligations of Ireland ; and the payment of the balance, after these obligations were discharged, should be entered into the Irish exchequer, and be placed at the free disposal of the Irish legislative body. The functions which it was proposed to withdraw from tho cognisance of the legislative body were three grand and principal functions, viz.: Everything which related to the Crown, all that which belonged to the defences, the army, the navy, the entire org-aaisation of armed force, and our foreign and colonial relations. It would not_ be competent to pass laws for the establishment or endowment of any particular religion. (Cheer?.) As to trade and navigation, it would be a mi&foi-une to Ireland to be separated from England. The Irish Parliament would have nothing to do wi'h coinago or the creation of legal tender. The subject of the post-offices would be left to the judgment of Parliament, though the Government was inclined to the view that it would be more convenient to leave postoffice mattors in the hands of the Post master General. Quarantine and one or two other subjects were left in the same category. The next subject he had to approach was that of the composition of the proposed legislative body. Tho bill proposes to introduce two orders, which would sit and deliberate together, with the right of voting separately on any occasion on the demand of either body, -which would be able to interpose a veto upon any measure for a limited time, either until a dissolution or for three yeara The orders would bo constituted aa follows :— First, there were 2S representative peerp, who could not continue to git in the House of Lords after the representatives of the Irish people had left the House of Common 3. They would hfive the option of sitting as a portion of the first order in the Irish Parliament, with the power nt sitting for life. He proposed that with the twenty-eight peers now in the House of Lord?, there should eifc seventyfive representatives, elected by the Jrieh people. With regard to the power of election, the constituencies "would be composed of occupiers of holdings of the value of £23 and upward, and they would be elected for ten years. The property qualification of these representatives would be £200 annual value on a capital value of £4 HOO. Mr Gladstone said he proposed ihat the 101 Irish members in the House of Commons should be membeis of the Irish Par liament, and while the first order of the legislative body would consist of 103 members, the second order would consist of 206 It was propo?ed to retain the Viceroy, but he would not bo the representative of a party or quit ofiioa with an outgoing Government. The Queen would be empowered to delegate to him any prerogatives she now enjoyed or would enjoy. Religious dis abilities now existing, which make Roman Catholics ineligible to office, would be removed. In future, judges would bo appointed by the Government, be paid out of the consolidated fund, and be removable only on the joint address of the two orders. The constabulary would remain under their present term of service and under their present authority. With respect to the Oivil Service, tho Government did not think their case was the same as that of the constabulary, and the transfer of the Civil Service to the Irish legislative body would effect great economy. He therefore thought it would be wise to authorise Civil servants now sprving to claim the pension that would be due to them upon the abolition of their offices, provided that they served five years, in order to prevent inconvenience from rapid transitions of service, and at the close of that time both parties ehou'd be free to negotiate afresh. This was all, Mr Gladstone stated, that he had to <?ay on the subject of the new Irish constitution. i i i r I l I I I

Imperial Burdens. The proportion of the Imperial burdens which he had to propose that Ireland should bear was as one to fourteen. He thought ; that the new Irish Parliament ought to i etand with a balance to its credit ; but the only fund that ie would have, if left alone, could be the solitary £20,000 from the Irish Church fund. He knew no way of providing the necessary money, except by carving it out of this year's budget, nnd he proposed that in the future Ireland should pay one-fifteenth towards the Imperial expenditures. Careful inquiry (he stated it with confidence, not as an actual demonstration, but aa a matter of certainty, with regard to by far the greater portion), showed that the Irish receipts would gain from Great Britain a sum that would amount to £1,400,000 per annum. He then entered into an elaborate calculation of the total income and expenditure of Ireland, in the course of which he stated that the total charge to Ireland ac an Imperial contribution would be put at £3,242,000 per annum. He estimated the total expenditure of Ireland, including payment to the sinking fund for the Irish portion of the national debt, at £7)943,000 per annum. Against this there was a total income of £8,350,000, or a surplus to the good of. £404,000.

Tbe Land Question, With regard to the history of tho land question, no man could know that until he had followed it from year to year, beginning with the Devon Commission, the ap pointment of which, in the speaker's opinion, did tho highest honour to the memory of Sir Robert Peel (Cheers.) He did not deny the good intentions of the British Parliament to pass good laws for Ireland, but, he said, in order to work out the purposes of the Government there is something more in this world occasionally required than the passing of good ' laws, ( Hear, hear.) When I held office in the Colonial Office, fifty years ago, the colonies were governed from Downing street. The result was the home Government was always in conflict with those countries which had legislative assemblies. We had continual shocks with cqlonies then, but all that has been changed., Tbe British, Parliament

tried to pasa good, laws for the colonies, but the colonies eaid ; ** We, don't want, your good laws ; we want oui' own good laws," and Parliament at length admitted the reasonableness of this principle. This principle hag come home to ua from across the seas, and the Houee has now to consider whether it ia applicable to the case of Ireland. We now stand face to face with what is termed the Irish nationality, venting itself in a demand^ for general self-govern-ment in Irish, not in Imperial affairs.

An Appeal to Patriotism. In conoluBion,Mr Gladstone said: "I hold that there is such a thing as local patriotism j which in itself ia not bad, but good. (Cheere). The Welshman ia full of it. If I read Irish history aright, "misfortune and calamity have wedded her sons to their soil with an embrace yet closer than is known elsewhere, and an Irishman is still more profoundly Irish, but it does not follow that this is local patriotism. There are two modes of presenting the eubject which I have argued ; one of them is to present what we now recommend as good, and the other is to present it as the choice of evils, and as the least among the varied evils with which, as possibilities, we are confronted, I do not know whether it may appear too bold. In my own heart I cherish the hope that this ia not merely the choice of the lesser evil, but that it may be proved ere long good in itself [Loud cheers] There is, I know, an answer to this, and what is the answer is only found in the view which rests upon the basis of despair, of the the absolute condemnation of Ireland and Irishmen as exceptions to thoso official provisions which have made, in goneral, Europeans, and, in particular, Englishmen and Americans, capable of self-government ; that an Irishman is l/isus naturae ; that justice, common sense, moderation, natural prosperity, have no meaning for him ; that all ho can understand and all that he can appreciate is strife and perpetual dissension Now, sir, I am not going to argue in thi3 House whether this view, this monstrous view (Irish cheers), is a correct ono. I say an Irishman is as capable of loyalty as any other man (renewed cheers), but if his loyalty has been checked, it is becau?o the laws by which he is governed do not present themselves to him as they do to us in England or Scotland, with a native and congenial element. I have no right to say that Ireland, through her constitutionally electod members, will accept the meaeuie I propose I hope they will, but I have no right to assume it, nor have I any power to enforce it upon the people of England and Scotland ; but I rely upon the patriotism and sagacity of this House, on a free and full discussion, and, more than all, upon the just and generous sentiments of the two leading British nations ; and, looking forward, I ask the House, believing that ho trivial motive could have driven us to assist in the work we have undertaken, a work wlrch we believe will restore Parliament to its free and unimpedei course— l ask them to stay the waste of public treasure under the present system of government and administration in Ireland, which is not a waste only, but a waste which demoralises while it exhausts. I ask them to show to Europe and America that we, too, can faco political problems which America had to face twenty yoar3 ago, and vhich many countries in Europe have been called on to face and have not feared to deal with. I ask that we shall practise as we have very often preached, and that in our own case we should be firm and fearlees in applying the doctrines we have often inculcated in others, believing that the concession of local selfgovernment is not the way to sap and impair, but to strengthen and consolidate unity. I ask that we should learn to rely less on mere written stipulations, and more on those better stipulations written on the heart and mind of man. I ask that we should apply to Ireland the happy experience wo have gained in England and Scotland, whero the courso of generations has now taught, not as a dream or theory, but as a matter of practice and of life, that the best and surest foundation we can find to build on id the foundation afforded by the affections and convictions and will of man, and that ifc is thus, by the decree of the Almighty, that, far moio than by any other method, we must bo enabled to secure afc once social happines°, power, and the pei manence of the empire. Mr Gladstone resumed his scat amid bursts of enthusiastic cheers, which were sustained for several minute?, His speech was of three hours and twenty-five minutes' duration, and he finished his task at eight o'clock.

"When the applause had subsided, George Ottp Trevelyan, who recently resigned the position of Secretary for Scotland, after eulogizing Mr Gladstone's oration, proceeded to explain tho reason of his resignation. He could never consent to such a scheme as Mr Gladstone had proposed. He had done his beet to prevent the Liberals from identifying themselves with what ho regarded as neither for the welfare nor the benefit of the country. Not longer ago than last June the whole Cabinet was of the same opinion as himself. What was ifc, he would like to know, that had happened since to change them ? The only security, he nrged, that Parliament would have, according to Mr Glad stone's plan, for the money they would be called upon to vote for the purchase of the Irish landlords' estate?, would be the willingness of the Irish farmers to keep up their payments. How much dependence could be placed upon that? "How long would it be, if the measure that has been submitted should become a Jaw, before Iriah contributions to the Imperial exchequer would be denounced by the Iriah and reprobated as English tribute?" •' For my part," eaid he, " I have no hesitation in saying that I think the complete separation of Ireland from Great Britain would be preferable to [the plan of government that has just been proposed, We should then know the worst at onca. '

Farneii Replies to Trevelyan. At the conclusion of Mr Trovelyan's speech Mr Parnell arose and was received with cheers by the Irish members. "Mr Trevelyan^ihftjgyd; "had stated -why he had lef t^vnec •23vernmert, but not why he had resigned his post aa Chief Secretary for Scotland." [Cheers from thelrish benches.] | Mr Parnell then went on to justify his past utterances and actions, which had been impugned by Mr Trevelyan. Speaking of America and the assassination literature which comes from America, Mr Parnell said that the most of the literature was neither American nor Irish literature. "If Mr Trevelyan," he continued, "wore to study the literature of America 'at this moment, he would find that sympathy for a juet aettlement of the grievances of Ireland by the concession of a domestic legislature is * shown by bX\ classes, whether Irish or native-born Americans, and more especially the native-born Americans are welcoming the efforts of Mr Gladstone, in the belief that they will bring peace between England F and' Ireland, We regard the fact that during the lastflye or six months we ba,ve ewooeedotfitf nearly.gaiaihg

the eympathy* of the two great parties in America^ Democratic and Republican, as a good omen for the future. (Cheers). As to the bill before thb Houee, while reserving his full expression x>f opinion until he had seen tho bill, Mr vParnellv ParneIl congratulated the House.of Commons on the fact that there was still living an English statesman who could devote his attention to this important matter, and begged to thank Mr Gladstone for what would not only prove a beneficial measure from an Irish point of view, but which he (Parnell) believed would be found to bo of equal .benefit to England. The bill, nevertheless, conj tamed blots which the Irish representatives would do their best to remedy. One of these was to be found in tho finanoiol proposals of the bill, which he regarded as very unfavourable to Ireland, especially in regard to the Irish tribute to tho Imperial exchequer. He also complained of the proposition in relation to tie two orders intended to constitute the Iri?h Parliament; on the ground that the Hrst order, consisting of Peera not subject to the influence of the popular voto, would kaye the power of hanging up lneasuiea demanded by the people and their representatives for two or three years or more. However, apart from these defects, he believed the measure would be cheerfully accepted by the Irish people and their representatives as a satisfactory solution of the long standing dispute between the two countries, and as tending to prosperity and peace in Ireland and to satisfaction in £Wluid. [Cheers.]

Mr Chamtoerlain's Speech. Mr Chamberlain resumed the debato, and explained the reasons why he resigned from the Cabinet. He did not believe in a eeparate Parliament at Dublin, and did not beiievo Mr Gladstone would urge such a measure until March 33th, when Mr Gladstone startled the Cabinet by bringing forward a scheme involving the issue of £150,000,000 in consols. At this point Mr Gladstone, interrupting, reminded Mr Chamberlain that he had not received the permission of her Majesty's Government to reveal the land proposals." Mr Chamberlain, continuing, said that ho would reserve his explanation. He did not resign on account of the Irish land-pur-chase proposals alono, but on account of the whole scheme {still, he asked, how could he explain his position if his hands v\ero tied? [Conservative cheers.] He asked if he might, be permitted to read his letter to Mr Gladstone. Uero an angry discussion took olaue between Mr Chamberlian and Mr Gladstone The latter declared he could not go beyond the limits of the Government's permission Mr Chamberlain thereupon complained that his explanation would be lame and incomplete. He would never be able to justify his conduct to the House and the country, Ho took four principal objections to the scheme for the Governmentof Ireland The first was the proposal to exclude the Irish members from Westminster ; the second objection was to renouncing, as proposed, the exercise of the right of Imperial taxation ; in the third place, he objected to the surrender of the appointments of judges and magistrates, and, finally, he objected to supreme authority being given to an Irish Parliament in matters not especially excluded fiom its authority, Further the financial echeine was not at all satisfactory to either Ireland or England, and in the coarse of a few years an attempt could bo made to change what would be accepted now grudgingly, and rather than face the distractions and foreign complications which would arise by having a quasi independent Government, he would vote for a separation pure and simple. [Loud cheers.] Tho opponents of tho Government's scheme were told that the alternative was coercion. That was his alternative. Agrarian discontent had arisen chiefly through the evictions by the landlords. He would propose to deprive the landlords of the power to evict for six months, guaranteeing them six months' rent, tne land being security for the cum advanced. During this period a peace commiafcion, composed of members of every section represented in Parliament, could conduct an exhaustive inquiry into the land question. Beside this he looked for a solution of 6he Home Rule matter in the direction of a federation. He was not, hb declared, pledged to his former proposals tor a National council. Under a federation Ireland would remain an integral portion of tho Empire. Tho principle of a federation had been successful in Germany and America. It would,be asserted, maintain imperial unity, and at the same time satisfy the desires of the Irish people for local self-government.

The Marquis of Hartington. The Marquis of Hartington eaid tho Government'i? proposition would henceforth be tho minimum of the Irish demand. If, as he thought likely, it did not command the support of the country, its introduction, without adequate consideration or preparation, would have added vastly to the difficulties of the future Government of Ireland. (Cheers.) He could not believe the people of England would consent to the loyal minority in Ireland being banded over to the majority without more effectual and more adequate protection than that afforded by the provisions of this bill. (Loud cheers.) If the scheme wa« good for Ireland, ifc was good for Scotland and Wales.

Worthy of Ir el ana's Acceptance. Lincoln, Neb,, ApvilS. — President Egan, of the Irish National 1 eague, has received the following cablegram : — "London, April 8, TSSQ.-To Egan: Gladstone's scheme lor an Irish Legislature, amended on Parnell's lines, is worthy of the acceptance of Ireland — Dillon, Davitt, Dr. Kenny."

The Excitement in Dublin. Dublin, April B.— The city has been in a state of political excitement all day. The Stock Exchange club rooms and all places where telegrams are being received from London have been crowded all day. The excitement here over Gladstone's action concerning Home KuJe exceeds that caused by emancipation.

The Opposition Gladstone Must Meet. A New York *limeB London cable says : Twenty-four hours of reflection and consultation have tended to confirm the belief that Gladstone's speech haa gone far to unite the English Radicals on his Irish programme ; but it has also been made clear that the Whig is more serious than has latterly been thought The chief objection, oddly enough, those moatly centre on, is the propoeal to remove i the Irish members from Westminster. The Irish themselves, realising how successful their efforts to make ihemselvas bo disagreeable have been, are filled with astonishment that the English do not leap afc the chance to be rid of them, but the chief hitoh thus far seems to be this very point. The Englishman, by.slow stages, has arrived at the point where he can tolerate the idea of giving the Irish a sort of toy Parliament for domestic use, provided it be kept over in Ireland, but he stands, dismayed at the proposition to alter "the < existing condition of things at S.t. . Stephen's,, right under his nose, This he feels would; be a visible "sign of. all sorts of evils,>agvely lumped in the' £hrW u disruption 1 of ihQEmpiH."

The speeches in the 1 ' Houee of Commons last night have contributed little £0 the elucidation of the problen*. The absorbing jtopio ia the I fia?co of Chamberlain'B speech. ' He was less fluent than usual, and then the flippancy of; his manner, doubly noticeable in contrast to the deep, almost devotional, j earnestness of Gladstone, induced a critical spirit in his auditors. His brief passage at arms with Gladstone over his letter to the latter disconcerted him, and when he developed his own childish scheme for a national council, the thing was met with such honest derision on both sides of the House, that all chance of an effective speech was lost, and when he sat down the Tories sot up a perfunctory little cheer. Chamberlains' stock, which has been declining since February last night went out of reach. The Marquis of Hartinpton, on the contrary, made a strong, temperate and weighty speech, probably the beat of his life, and the Irish are nfraid of its effect on the wavering minds of parties. It is understood that the Marquis of Salisbury has succeeded in whipping-in almost all mutinous Tories. It is regarded as probable now that not more than three or four will vote for the bill, though some others may absent themselves.