SIR JULIUS VOGEL IN THE THEATRE ROYAL. Address to the People of Auckland. Auckland Feb. 24.

Te Aroha News, Volume III, Issue 143, 27 February 1886, Page 4

SIR JULIUS VOGEL IN THE THEATRE ROYAL. Address to the People of Auckland. Auckland Feb. 24.

Ix conformity with a nunicrously-signed requisition, Sir Julius Vogel last night addressed a public meeting of the citizens of Auckland. The proceedings were an nouncod to commence at S o'clock, but fully half-an-hour before that time the lai'ge building was crowded to its utmost extent, the stalls and pit being filled with the lords of creation, and the upper portion of the house, according to established usage, being strictly reserved for ladie3 and their male escorts. There was an exceptionally large representation of the fair sex. Admission to the platform was by invitation ticket only, and the whole sitting accommodation thereon was taken up. Amongst those seated there wore the Hon. J A. Tolo (Minister of Justice), Mr W. Swanson, M.L.C., Revs. T. Hamer and S. W. Baker, Prof. Aldis, Crs. Laßocho, Holdship, Connolly, Aickin, Devore, Stevenson, Waymouth, Montague, aud Holland, Major Green, Drs. Wilkins and Walker, Father Walter McDonald, Major Isaacs, T. Peacock and T. Thompson, M.H.R.'s, Messrs P. A. Philips (Town Clerk), H. J. Jury, J. Elkin. J. Moginie, W. Miller, J. Ross, Hipkins, S. Jagger, Carr, Oliphant, Grant, D. A. Tole, King, Russell, Coornbes, Campbell, Batger, Connell, Gaze, Lodder, Hill, Abbott, Ehronfried, Jas. Coates, Humphries, McLeod, F. La wry, Hodge, J. Mason, Hughes, Shera, Levy, Whitcombe, Brewer, Codling, H. Farnall, G. Yon der HeyJe, D. G. McDonald, W. J. Suiter (Mayor of Newmarket), G. Binney, E. W. Morrison, W. Wilson, and O. Mays. The audience very patiently and good temperedly awaited the raising of the curtain which should disclose to view tbt notabilities gathered behind it, and coincidently give the signal for attacking the business of the evening. This postponement of the curtain-iaidng proce^ wis, in the lisrht of past experience, a very discreet piece of policy, inasmuch as it deprived the hoi polloi of their traditional pa?timo of baiting tho celebrities and notorieties of the place as they made their appoaranco upon the platform. At eight o'clock preci=ely the curtain was raised, revealing the Mayor (Mr W. R. Waddel) in the chair, with Sir Julius Yogei seated before a table at his side with a roll of manuscript in front of him. The Chairman rose amid applause to addres* the meeting. He said that they had met that evening for the purpose of hearing j an address from Sir Julius Vogel on some of the leadiag questions that v, ere occupying the miads ot the people of the colony. It had been his lot to preside over other large meetings which had been noted for the orderly style of the proceedings, but he bad selJom presided over a larger or rnoie influential audience than the present one, and he hoped that the proceedings that evening would also be noted for orderliness. There were many reasons a\ hy they should give Sir Julius Vogel a good hearing, but he would simply mention one, v ich was the fact that Sir Julius Vogel was there that night to address them by their own invitation, and ho felt sure that a^ne would be a guarantee of a fair hearing. He then introduced the speaker of the evening. Sir Julius- began his address by saying that he had undei taken that night a very arduous task, and one which he was not quitesurothat ho would be wellenoughtofultil to his satisfaction. He trusted he might rely upon their kindly consideration for a patient hearing, for a great deal of uhai lie had to say would be of a rather dry nature. During the remarks which he should moke tbe financial question would be constantly cropping up, and he need scarcely say that financial subjects were not, as a rule, very popular ones at a public meeting.

How Loans Had Been Expended He would refer briefly to w hat had been the policy which ho had hid in view since ho had been in charge of the finances of the colonj\ His object had been to restore the equilibrium between expenditure and revenue, and especially to relieve the large loan? which the colony was borrow ing from the purposes of unproductive expenditure. The colony had gradually got into a system cf borrow ing indiscriminately for a great rcany purposes, until figures showed them the iact that we had during a course of years out of every pound, spent only about 10= for railv. aj r construction, the rest of the amount being devoted to purpose? of mcie or less benefit, no doubt, but not directly reproductive. As an example, he would draw their attention to the gradual way in -which the expenditure on roads and bridge? had accumulated. Ho found that during the three years ending IS S3 there was no le^ than i'S:G,OOO spent on roads and bridges out of loan:*, whilst out of revenue theio had only been spent £102,000 during the whole of the three years. Now, his view was that whilst the colony could afford to borrow for purposen of a reproductive character, and borrow so laigely for objects that did no f . yield a return, the re-ult was necessarily to throw a very heavy charge upon the revenue of the colony.

Sir Julius's Object and tlie Governments Financing. Hi~ object had been to so adjust tho revenue to the expenditure as to leave him in the position of sajingto the colony, '• Wo are now able with prudet.ce and discretion to resume a vigorous policy of public work?," (Applause.) Be proposed last year an increase of the Customs dutie«, and whatever they might have heard of these increase?, he had to say that they were not of an oppressive or heavy nature. They were calculated to yield for the remainder of tho year during which they propo-ed to use them only an amount of about £70,000, or at the rato per annum of £100,00'). That was the amount of the increases estimated from tho adjustmenta of the tariff -which they submitted to Parliament. Now. when he told them v hat the amount of the Customs revenue bad been for the last few years, they would say that the additions proposed were of a reasonable nature. They increased the Custom 3 duties simply to keep them up to their proper normal standard. During ISBI, the Customs revenue yielded £1,412,C00 ; during 18S2 it yielded £1,. "515, 000 ; and the next two years it yielded £100,000 less per annum. Consequently, with the additions which they propoped for last session of Parliament, they only intended to bring up the Customs revenue y .o what it had been for the three years previously to ISS2. Tfeey proposed more than a corresponding increase of taxation of property in the shape of additional stamp and succession dutiea. The property tax they proposed to bring back to what it had bfen two years previously, viz., ; and when they found that the Customs increases were denied to them, they were compelled with great reluctance to add to the property tax another They wrre also upable to pay up, as they desired, a portion of the deficit loft tbem by their predecessors. But the extra stamp and succeFsion duties enabled them to pay the subsidy to local bodies, a new item charged to the revenue. They bad to meet also the expenditure upon the objects which necessitated a constantly in

croasing expenditure, viz , education, postal services 1 , and so on. Thoso were constantly increasing, just in proportion as the population and settlementof the colony extended. There was also an amount of £00,000 for interest, which came in as an additional charge for the year ISS3-S6, in consequenco of the conversion operations which thiew forward tho intorost by a fow weeks into the succeeding year. Without tho increasod Customs tariff they had to meet the extracharges necessary, and those connected witha new loan that was being negotiated, and now they would see that this new loan was not spent on railways, which wei'e a direct reproductive source from which to gather a revenue on the borrowed money. Tho loans not spent on railways were so many additional charges upon the revenue.

What the Premier Did and Did Not Say. It had been attributed to his colleague, the Premier, that ho had said, \ hile speaking at Dunodin, that every fresh million of money borrowed meant an addi tional £40,000 per annum of taxation, and therte wore two or threo papers down South which had repeated these words alleged to have been uttered by his colleague, about twice or three times a weok since the dato on which they were supposed to havo been uttered. Now, he had the authority of his colleague for saying, but oven without it he would hive ventured to declare, that he could not have eaid anything so stupid, and he' could not congratulate tho papers that quoted the misstatement and unquestionably accepted it. Thoy ought to have had more sense to have soeu the mistake What his colleague did say was this : that every million of money borrowed and spout on unproductive purposes required an additional £M), 000 of revenue to meet the charges upon it, but when the expenditure was reproductive, ob/iously tho reproductive amount came in relief of the additional chargo on tho rovenue.

How Loans Should be Expended. Now they could continue subsidies to local bodies, and they could charge, as had hitherto been done, all the expendituic on roads and budges to the loans, but they did not think that the riyht policy. They considered that the loan money should bo very much reduced in respect of the amount oxpended on other objects than railways, and that the ordinary revenuo should bear pouio of the burthen ot expenditure for the objects of the local bodies distributed throughout the colony. ( -\pplauso.)

The Possibilities of Retrenchment. Now this question arose : Ara there no other means of saving monoy ? And hcie he was going to say to them what ho feared would be rather bold on his part to say, because ho \\ as going to attack a popular cry — he was going to say that the cry got up in different parts of tho colony about the possibilities of large retrenchment was much more of a humbugging cry than a reality in fact. The members who told their constituents that retrenchment the true policy were the very first to clamour for fresh expondituie within thoir own district?, and for raising the palariea of officers who, from personal friendship or acquaintance, they thought had not enough ; but they joined in the popular cry, notwithstanding that almost in tho pains breath they were asking for additional expenditure. Now ho would tell them \\ hat appeared to him to be the truth of the matter. He would not allow the Go vernmentto be subjected to over-pressure for tho purpose of mc reasing the salaries of civil servants. They ha i had broughtboforethem by members ca=e3 of unquestionable haulship which had subjected the colony to the lo_s of nany good oih'cers, who had left the service because they did not receive sufGcient payment. He mustsay that it was much better to tell them kindly of tho facts of the case than to take advantage of the popular ciy. Ho had found that thoso members who clamoured so loudly about retiench ment were just those who, when in office themselves, had failed to retrench, so that they were in the petition of pretending that that which they could not do themselvos, their successors ought to do.

Salaries of Civil Servants. Ho contended that the salaries paid to tho public officers in tho other colonies and to the officers of piivate institutions in thig colony, when compared with the salaries paid to tho civil servants of Now Zealand, showed that tho latter were not heavy. Indeed, these comparisons showed them to be light. Ho would, first of all, refer to the tirst-class officers only, and show how they were respectively paid in this colony and elsewhere. The Speaker of the Legislative Council in New Zealand received £000 a year, while in New South Wales and Victoria tho same high officer received C 1,200 a year, lie found that the Speaker of the Hou c e of representatives in New Zealand recched £SOO, whilst the same officer in two of the other colonies leceived £1,500 a year. Ho found that the Under-Secretary of the colony received in New Zealand £800 a year, whilst in New South Wales he received £900 and in Victoria 1 1,000 a year. Tho Chief Clerk in New Zealand recehed £375, whilst in Victoria ho got £(170, and in New South Wales £625. Tho Chief Justice of New Zealand receives £1,700 ; the Chief Justice of New South Wale?, £3,000 ; and tho Chief Justice of Victoria the same. (A voice : ITow much do you receive yourself ? Laughter and applause.) The other Supreme Court iudcesin New Zealand leceived £1,(500 ; in New South Wales, £2,000 ; and in Victoria £3,000. This was the only way in which we could tell whether salaries wore paid too high, viz., by a scale of comparison. These were the salaries of high -class officers. Tho ability of the Secretary to tho Treasury, for instance, wag such that if ho had anything like a similar appointment in private, he would receive twice or thrice as much. When he came to the lower class officers, he met with instances of a most distressing character. Men who had been in the service for twenty or thirty years had not been able to earn suiheent to make their lives comfortable. He did not think there was much to be got by retrenchment Some change? might bo made, but it was folly to suppose that retrenchment was sufficient until tho question to what should be the end of our taxation waa settled. The question we had to decide was this — should we take off the taxation that might be required to make up the taxation in the Custom's tariff by adding to the Customs duties the Property Tax ? As it stood at present the Property Tax was equal to |d per head, which was equal to Is 4d in tho £ on the annual value of the property.

Free Trade He did not intend to enter into the question of free trade, but he would say that the Customs duties required to be raised. Ho found that the Customs duties for 1870 to lSS4,inclusive,averaged per head annually £2 13a sd. The highest year of the eevies was 1574, in which the average was £3 4s lid, and the lowest was in 1884, viz., £2 Gs 6d ; outside of tho series quoted, 18S5 was still lower, the average then being £2 5s 7d. Now he found that the average during the preceding 15 years in duties paid on wines and spirits, tobacco and cigars, was 47 per cent., which was equal to 25s per head, and taking these duties on wines and spirits, and tobacco and cigars,

he thought all would agroo that those who usod them should be content to pay. (Applause). The balanco of taxation was only £1 81?8 1 ? 5d per annum. What the Govornrnont asked last year would have been equal to ,?d additional. New South Wales, which was acknowledged to be a great freo trade colony, in 1881 averagod £2, and oxtracts from tho Colonial Treasurer's statement for tho ensuing year showed that the Customs icvenue would be more than £2, which, considering the big revenue, would bo a large average Besides, New South Wales made a charge for school fees, which we did not in this colony. He considered it fair enough that tho education of the colony should fall upon the Customs duties", towards which all contributed. If it was charged on the proporty tax, it would bo said that the proporty classes paid for the non-property classes. It must be recollected that the Customs revenue was the only taxation towards which tho Maori race contributed. He had not time to go into the question of free trade and protection. It was not simply that quostion that the Ministry would go to tho country about. There had boon a consider ablo fall in tho Customs tariff from othor reasons. He thought nobody would complain if ho sot tho limit of taxation at £2 10d per head, which would be loss than it had beon during the provious fifteen years. As to how this was to be done, he had spoken elsowhero, and ho did not considor it necessary to speak further upon tho subject now Ho dreaded tho raising of an abstiact question like Free Trade and Protection, which might make the country looso si^ht of questions which ho considered to bo of paramount importanco to all others, viz , tho scale upon which tho colony will further carry on its public works. Tho resolution which Capt. Ilussoll passod through the '-*ouse last session upsot all previous practice of taking votes to authorise contracts. No . Government should, in his opinion, have voted expendituxo for the construction of a railwiy when they were not sure of the step they were taking. If the Government were satisfied that thoy were going W recoivo from the railways upon the scale that they ought, they would then, instead of sending tho work to di tie rent parts and outside of tho colony, bo ablo to keep it in ono locality. ( Applause) Tho time had como when public woiks should bo settled upon a broad basis. In brief tsrrus ho w ould say that the policy of tho Government should be :— (1) To urj/o tho progicss of railways ; (2) to diminish the pi ©portion of money expended on woiks othor than tho=o for which it was borrowed ; (3) that tho works should bo rapidly brought to a paying condition ; (4) that loan** should be had so that thoy could not be diverted from the purposes for which thoy wero obtained. (Applause). Before proceeding further ho wished to say somothing which he might bo frightened to say, but that he believed thoro a ore there amongst the audienco in a majoiity who wero prepared to look upon this question seriously, and neither facetiously nor factiously. (Hear, hear).

Industrial and Commercial Depression. It was not possible for a small country like New Zealand to have anything out of proportion, and tho prosperity of one district would surely extend its influenco to tho roat of tho colony. Ho thought that Auckland but for this would bo in a much bottor condition than it is. During the last oightcon months great depression had prevailed over other parts of the country, and thoso who did not prosper in business and make money elected to remove to Auckland, where thoy would find that all was right. To an extent Auckland had been a refuge for tho destituto from the test of the colony, (Cheers and laughter.) The first que&tion that would bo asked of him when ho camo to talk of tho construction of public woiks would be, Did the Government intend proceeding v : th tho construction of the East and Web: Coast Railway ? (Cheers and hisses.) lie was of opinion that tho railway should be made ; if he left them in any doubt as to his opinion ho would not bo acting fairly to them. When the railway scheme was first proposed in IS7O, the schome included the construction of tho trunk system from^tl. orth to the south of tho Middlo Island, and from tho north to tho south of tho North Island, and ho considered that there was a sacred claim on the honour and consideration of tho rest of tho colony that tho railway system of tho South Island should be extended to Nelson, Maryborough, and Westland. When he was leaving the Agent- (ieneral&hip, and when he thought that his official connection with the colony had been severed for ever, he put on record the opinion that justice required tho fulfilment nf al the obligations to all parts of the colony. lie complained that the people of Auckland had not been infoimed of the reasons for tho construction of tho railway. It wag not necessaiy for him to go into the reasons for tho construction of other rai'ways. They all knew the reason there existed for the connection of Wellington by railway with Auckland, "why tho railway shou'd bo made from Auckland northwards, and thoy all know that if ho had his way, they would bo nearer completion than thoy were at present. (Cheers.) lie wanted to &tate ai-guments in favour of the construction of the East and West Coast line. After a careful investigation, officials of the Public Works Department havo reported that it would yield at least 2 per cent, upon tho cost of construction, be a idos aiding very much the receipts of other lines. It would open up one million of acro3 of Crown lands that would be otherwise useless ; some of this was good, and some indifTeront, but the most of it was rich in minerals, and likely to yiold enormous quantities of coal, gold, and timber. One block of 00,000 acres alone was represented to bo full value for half a million sterling. Tho population of the districts that would ba benefited by its consti notion was oneth'rd of tho population of tho colony. It would unite several great districts, enabling tho exchange of agricultural products with minerals, and would 'enablo the plains of Canterbury to obtain cheaply the coal that abounded on the West Coast. The Hon. Mr Bowen had epitomised the arguments in favour of tho construction of this railway. " Tho«e who advocato the immediate prose cution of the East and West Coast railway do so, because they are satisfied it would pay better than any othor railway in projection in New Zealand ; becouso it is part of the trunk lines constructed in the various islands ; because it will practically add a new territory to the colony teeming with all sorts of minorals, large undeveloped wealth hitherto cut off, and it will be of benefit and add to the population of the country, not by introducing, at the expense of the State, people who cannot find work, but by finding work which will attract population." With rogard to this railway, the immouse tract of land brought into use and increased in valuo by its construction should contribute considerably to the coat, and it might be a question, without impeding the progress of the railways, whether a proportion of the result obtained from the lands should not be put into a separate estate without being put into the consolodated revenue. Heshouldlike to say this, he should not go into other joint lines, or tell them how it is proposed or how it ia likely that tho expenditure will be devoted. It was necessary to

mention this railway ; the others they know. The Government made it a cardinal point from the iiret moment they took office that a trunk lino from Wellington to Auckland should be constructed, bat the resolution which waB carried last session has materially delayed the construction of the lino, as well as the extension of the line of railway northward.

Public Works Now with regard to public works, generally speaking, when labour was plentiful and matorial cheap, that was the time for making railways, for they added to the ralue of the produce of tho country settlers by bringing it nearer the markets. The railways of the colony did not pay badly as an immodiate investment, and naturally they must becomo more valuable in the future. Alfcnough their trunk lines were so imperfectly completed, still they yielded, evon now over 2 per cent, upon thoir actual cost. Besides that, thoro was about £30,000 that might be calculated for various services rendered by tho railways to tho Government departments, notably the postal. ILo folt sure the value of such services must reach that amount. Then it mv.st be remembered that in New Zealand thoy had a system of charges that materially assisted the country settlors, for thoy must nil know that the Government did not charge as high a rate as they might. If present receipts was thoir only objoct, thoy could obtain at least £200,000 more per annum from the railways of tho colony— that was, if tho railways wero worked merely as a speculation, and not for tho ultimate good of the country at largo. X was the will of the people that the lower rates should bocharged, and hocon^idered that they should run tho railways to a certain extont for tho benofit of tho sottlora of tho colony. At picsent their railways returned 5 por cent, upon thoir actual cost — that was, when considering tho gains from all sources. Thoy would find that even then he had under-estimated the total returns. They would havo to consider carefully tho two poMcios at preaont laid beforo them- the ono to stop borrowing, ana at the c .ametirac stop all progress ; tho othor to carry out iho present Public Woiks scheme Mith vigour. (Laughter.) The question was, vhothor thoy would have large puma of money to oxpend and draw people to the colony, or v\hother thoy would act so as to drive them away, and thus prevent tho land from being taken up, Stop public works, and go on as they had beon doing during the past year, and the colony would bo ruined, or lofb in tho hands of a few rich men owing to tho pcoplo having beon diivon away. (A. voice: It's that already.) In answer to tho gentloiran who had spoken, ho might say that it had not been dono already. They had good grounds fur concluding that the money which had been expendad on the railways of New Zealand would provo highly remunerative in tho end, in addition to opening tho lands of tho colony.

The " Syclnoy Morning Herald's " Strictures Criticised. Tho ** Sydney Morning Herald " had scon fit to rovort to tho financial condition of New Zealand, and some of the newspaporrf of tho colony had seen fit to copy tho remarka and support them. Now, New South Wales was quoted as a marvel of p osperity, and they thoreforo procooded to advise Now Zealand. Ho u ould just givo a few statistics to show how prosperous New South Walos really was, and also tho causes of such prosperity. He found from the statement of Mr Dibbs, tho Colonial Secrotary of that colony, thatduring tho period olapsing between 1881 tolSSs,that colony sustained a loss of at least £5,000,000. This was in consequence of tho drought, and in addition to that there was the los 3 from tho genoral depreciation of the articles raised and manufactured in the colony. Mr Dibbs estimated that tho loss during tho drought had been fully 200,000 hors?e?, onoand a half million of cattle, and i:> and a half millions of sheep, while tho wool had deteriorated fully 40 percent., and so frightful had Mr Dibbs considered tho position of tho colony that he had folt it incumbent upon him to state the position was, indeed, very serious, so much so, that v hen one member asked in the house, " Whet about the drought ?" Mr Dibbs had replied, "If it continues, thoro will be no necessity for a financial statement next year." (Laughter.) That was tho condition of New South Wales, yet thero was no colony according to statistics that had prosperod so much through the period of disaster. Tho public debt of ]Sew South Wales was as follows : —On the Slstof December, 18S0, tho colony owed £14,000,000, on the 11th December, ISSS, the debt had increased to CSG, OOO,OOO, in other words, during that five years tho colony had borrowed 020,000,000. And in addition to that there had been £1,000,000 received from land endowments alone, and still there had been £1,300,000 deiicit. Through it all ho believed that no colony had prospered so ! much as New South Wales. At tho sa.no time the colony was losing at the rato of £.SOO,OOO por annum. They had just obtained a loan of five and a-half millions, and that would be expended by next February, then New South Wales would no doubt go on borrowing. In New South Wales the Ministry say that thero were cortain railways to be made, and labour being plentiful and material cheap, they wont in and made them. They had, however, to get a loan by operations such as we had never resorted to. Was it not scandalous, in viow of these facts, for the Mritor in tho "Sydney Morning Horald" to writo as ho had done ? Either he must have been very ignorant or else treacherous to this colony by inveighing against that which this colony had done on a very small scale, but which New South Wales had done on a gigantic scale. He did not wish thoso remarks to bo regarded as roflecting upon the rulers of the sister colony, for with consummate tact thoy had averted a great crisis. The heat and turmoil of politics did not prevent thorn either from uniting to push forward railway construction through their colony. Was it not strange that in this colony there should be so many people who, in direct face of all the praises showered upon it by all distinguished visitors, from Mr G. A. Sala — (laughter) — downwards, wore only too eager to befoul thoir own nests, and who showed such an inveterate propensity for grumbling ?

Give the Colony a Chance, The question for their decision was, whether they were going to give the colony another chanco. (Loud laughter, apclause, and determined hissing) Wero they, he repeated, going to give the colony another chance ? (Cries of "Yes" and "No.") Were they going to soe New South Wales— (A voice : " Tax the land.")— double its population before the ond of the century and not endeavour to follow its example— not upon its gigantic scale, but upon a smaller scale ? Were they going to leave this colony wholly to the large land owners, and allow the people to find their way to the other colonies ? He did not propose anything so large as the four and a half millions which N.S. W. was spending, but what he did propose was that New Zealand should spend not less than one and a half millions per annum upon the construction of railways ("Hear, hear " and applause), and to spend a much

smaller amount in proportion than thoy had hitherto been doing upon other purposes. Thoy should not exceed for other purposes a proportion of 5s in tho £, which was about the proportion spont by the other colonies. If they borrowed £landspentlO3 on othorpurposes than railways, the latter would have to -yield at the rate of S per cent, to pay interest on the money, but if they spent 15s on railways and 5s on other purposes then the railways would only have to yield 5J$ per cent, to cover the interest.

The Taxable Limit, In his opinion they should not increase the taxation by Custom's duties beyond £2 10a per hoac l , and the Property Tax should not be carried further than 2d or gd per head. They should not look at the public debt in the lump and be frightoned at it. (Laughter). There was no uso crying over spilt milk. (Renowed laughter, and a voice : It has been spilt). If they imagined that ho was responsible for the naonoy expended on other purposes than railways, they must be very ignorant. (Loud laughter). His borrowing policy was the construction of railways through erery part of the colony, so as to thoroughly open it up and utilise its resources. That policy had only been partially carried out— a large portion had been wasted, and would never bo recovered. (A voice : Yes, and you wasted it).

How to Make the Colony Prosper. Now, the question was : Were they, when labour was plentiful and material cheap, going to resume that policy ? Nocessarily connected with ifc was the desirability of introducing gradually that class of immi grants who brought with them a little capital (dissent). These were tho true means of advancing the prosperity of the colony. Of late years they had not been sufficiently attended to and suiliciont caro had not been shewn in dealing with recent loans Tho treat raent of tho three milliona raised between 1883 and ISS6 had beon a sham, seeing that they had beon largely used in paying subsidies. In fact, during those years the throo millions bocamo four and three quarter millions. Now money was required for groat railway works, and amongst thorn the extension of tho line northwards from Auckland. It \\ ould, too, have to be carofally dealt with, and ho proposed that each \ ote should bo co earmarked that it could not be diverted to other purposes than thoso clearly intended. A provisional loan could be arranged this year in such a manner that thoy would be enabled to borrow on short dated debentures till Octobor next in anticipation of its being raised. By those means it would be possible for the Governmont so to carry on its negotiations that no loss would ensue. By additional legislation aleo they would be able to so ear - mark each loan that it could not be cxponded for other purposos thon thoso for which it was raised. One of the most important of the public works which had claims upon thoir consideration was tho completion of the lino between Auckland and Wellington. Last year they weie unablo to raise the million and a-half loan till after March. Then came the Russian scaro, and their negotiations were very considerably impeded in consequence. They were unablo to raise the]loan, and had, consequonly, to pull in thoir horns considerably. It was not this colony alone that had experienced financial dillicullies, and ho would read to them a statement made by Sir Patrick Jonnings, tho Premier of Victoria, which was to the effect that tho latter had to agree to borrow from ten dilleront banks -- £150,000 from each — with interest at 5 per cent. The Premier of New South Wales also said that he had experienced a very bad time for a period of three months in connection with negotiations. It was not desirablo in the interests of the colony that this important question should be left dependent upon whether there was war or no war between the Governments, over the causes of which we had no control, and a very imperfect knowledge

The Million Loan. Hg had said that he did not wish to raise the million loan now, because under the present system it would be available for expenditure on objects other than those for which it was intended. If, however, Parliament passed an Imprest Supply Act of ways and means, by which it would be impossible for a loan to be used for that for which it had not been intended, and no Parliament would ever dream of first repealing the objects for which the money had been borrowed, and expend it on other objec f s.

Probabilities of a Dissolution. Novr, he would ask the audience to let him say a few words upon a question which was very much exercising the minds of the people of the colony — that was the question whether or not there was likely to be a dissolution of Parliament bofore tho House meets next session ? This question had not been discussed in the Cabinot, and no advice on the subject had beon tendered to His Excellency. He was not in a position to tell his hearers whether there would or would not be a dissolution bofore the session comrnonced, but it was quite right that the country should know the reasons that would make it expedient that there should be a dissolution before next session. It was not any question affecting the status of the Government that was to be taken into consideration. First, it was right that the country should decido whothor they should actually resume Public Works operations. It was not right to ask that Parliament in its last session should decide sucli a question. The question should go before the people of the colony as a whole. If Parliament met ana then dissolved, it meant an unnecessary expenditure of £25,000, That consideration, however, was not so important as other arguments, as he had told them they were in this position : When Parliament meets it would have to expend the North Island Trunk Loan for other purposes than those for which it was intended. He supposed the Auckland membors would not consent to that, or else to suspend public works throughout the colony, which would in his opinion cause serious distress throughout the colony. When, in ISS4, the House met, when there was a dissolution decided upon without delay on the reply to the speoch from the Throne, when everything was dono as quickly as possible, and tho new House was called together as quickly as possible, the session did not end until November, and the authorities for the new loan did not reach England until close on the end of December. Ho said this, if wo are going to adopt the same course this year, even supposing we expend the money, which he did not think they ought to do, of the North Island trunk loan, even if they did that there would be very serious disaster in the colony. He thought, apart from the interest which Auclrianders havo in the special purpose for which tho loan is intended, they must bear in mind that at the end of the financial year there will be something like a million and a half of engagements hanging over the colony, upon the public works fund, and nothing to satisfy them but the remainder of the existing loan and the North Island Trunk loan. If Parliament was to go in for public works they must know it and at once, and ther«

should be no delay in letting it be known. A large proportion of the population was dopendent on this, and general depression would surely follow the cessation of public works, or any delay in carrying them forward. But if a dissolution took place before Parliament met, which would cause the works to be thrown forward, tho results would be that nothing would be done until the end of the present, or the beginning of next year. There was another rifck. The longer these questions were postponed, the more difficult it became to take advantage of a favourable market, and everyone know well that being able to take the benefit of a good market when disposed to accept colonial bonds was of great advantage to the finances of a country. On the other hand, no determination had been arrived at upon tno subject. It might be, bowevei 1 , that some way which he did not yet see would bo found out of the difficulty.

Policy of Next Session. A3 regards the policy of next session, it must be understood that he did not bind the Government to anything that ho might say. What ho said must be taken for what it was considered to bo worth. Concerning local government, they could not afford to leave it altogether untouched. The more he caw of the question the more he recognised the great difficulties that stood in ths way of bringing it to any final settlement. There was no inclination through a great part of the country districts to bind themselves to tho town districts, or inducing county districts to tax themselves.

Roads and Bridges Construction Act. At the same time it was necessary to provide something to take the place of the Roads and Bridges Construction Act, repoaled last session. Should the administration be left in the hands of aggregation of local bodies, or entrusted to the Pablic Works Department, or should it be left to separate districts ? In his opinion the last was the method that should for some time be adopted. The arrangement of aggregation ot local bodies would be difficult, and in ariiving at a settlement on theso lines, they could not leave out Education Boards, Land Boards, and Charitable Aid Boards. A thorough local system should deal with all these matters, instead of scattering their control over a number of bodies. The question was not ripe to be dealt with at present. So far as the question of contribution to local bodies was concerned, it would be necessary to deal with the question next ses&ion. The Hospital and Charitable Aid Act would require amendment next session, but not to the oxtent that had been proposed. Some provision would need to be made for more rapid payments from the Treasury, and greater encouragement should be given to private bonevolence. He could not neglect attending to the question of the encouragement of local industries and to the requirements of goldfields. He now came to the question of opening up some of the laro-e estates for settlement. It had been often nibbled at, but it had been put in a comprehensing, not a concrete shape, in a bill initiated by Sir George Grey last session, but which had not been pushed. (Cheers) It had been carefully prepared, and might pave the way to asettlement of many difficult points, There are many points in it requiring consideration. Thoy must prevent the Government from being forced to purchase estates that it was undesirable that they should puichase. They could not deny that there was a preponderance of large astates, though he considered that large estates here and there were advantageous to the small settlers, as thoy assisted the individual efforts of those small settlei's. In looking at the matter he could not but come to the conclusion that the land was held in too few hands. To some extent, the principle of the bill should be carried out. The statistics of ISS2 showed that there woro 27,561 holders of estate (exclusive of town land) of more than 5 and less than 500 acres— of more than 50 and not exceeding 2,000 acres ; 2,455 holders ; of 2.000 acres and not exceeding 10,000 acres, 668 holclei&; of 10,000 and not exceeding 50,000 acres, 224 holders, and of more than 50,000 acres, 23 holders. (A voice : It's worse than li eland.) No person should object to land required for settlement being taken provided compensation was paid for it, and he hoped that there was no cne in the colony who would wish to take someone else's property without compensation. (Cheers.) He thought some relief might be given to small farmers in the matter of small loans, No other question was of greater importance, and the difficulty must be dealt with. When a man with a large estate wr.nted money, the loan offices would run after him, but tor a small loan the fees for valuation, etc., were heavy, and the interest high; and altogether, there were great difficulties in the way of borrowing small sums. He thought something might be done for farmors on a small scale— though not prepared to say positively in the bill for resuming large estates. He was not sure that small farma could not be resumed with a purchasing clause enabling the farmer to repurchase, lie had outlined the scheme, but was not prepared to express a final decided opinion thereon.

Protection. Without raising the question of Free Trade and Protection at all, lie might saythat in tho itetn9 of candles, boots, shoes, drapery, and woollens alone between £], 000,000 and £2,000,000 produced in the colony, and depending on the duties, and they could not be indifferont to the protection of the manufacturers of these articles. Major Atkinson had said that if the Customs duties were removed one-half of the population would have to leave. Without tho Customs duties property tax would need to be taxed 6s or 7s per £ in the annual value, and the farmers being deprived of the local markets, the farms would fall into the hands of the large holders. Farmers should not thus think that Customs duties were not useful to them He had to say that they had it in their power to start the new public works policy under favourable auspices. If they delayed it, nothing but disaster would ensue, but if it was commenced early, it would be carried to a successful issue. He might tell them that at the end of the year there would be a small surplus. This would not be good news for those who had revelled in the idea that there would be a large deficit, but the majority of the people of the colony would be glad to hear it. The large financial operations at present going on in England would also increase the favourable conditions. Ho claimed thot the position of New Zealand with respect to the public works policy was better than New South Wales. That colony had a population of three persons to the square mile, while New Zealand had a population of six persons to the squaro mile. Then, again, one-third of the population of Now South Wales was settled in Sydney and suburbs, while in New Zealand there was a far greater distribution. They should limit borrowing for other purposes than railways, nor should they leave railways unformed to rot, and under these conditions tho new railways would soon help existing loans, besides giving direct returns. They must see that loans were only used for the purposes for which they were borrowed. That

the settlement of farmers on the land should be provided for, and that the promotion of local industries should be encouraged from one end of the colony to the other. He was prepared to map out financially this policy, on the basis that the Customs revenue per head should not be made to exceed £2 10/s per annum, and that the property tax should be Jd, or at mpst gd. There were many other subjocfcsof importance which he had not time to gointo, although he would like to do so. There were such subjects as the islands, native lands, mail services, cable contracts, exportation of kauri timber, conservation of forests, all of which were most important, but which it was imroaaible for him to touch upon that evening, for he had already trespassed very largely on their attention. He thought these questions ought to be considered, but if he was right in his idea of what we should go before the country principally about, party lines would be very much altered when there was another election. He would ask them to consider what he had said, and the reasons which he had adduced for tho faith which was in him.

Personal Abuse. They would hear a great amount of abuse about him, but he might say that he had suffered that when he had been in the colony before. There were those who were unable to combat hie schemes who took that method of trying to injure him. But he asked them to consider the points he had laid before them, and then he felt sure that they would come to look upon the schemes as their own. He wished to carry away the impression that he had. left behind him a kindly feeling in the hearts of the people of Auckland. (Cheers) But there was a still more momentous question to be considered by the electors, and although there might be some personal pleasure experienced by him in carrying out his schemes, still ho asked them to carefully consider the matter, remembering that the -way in which they performed their duty would have an important effect upon the future of the colony. In conclusion he thanked them for the kind hearing which they had accorded him. At the conclusion of the speech loud cheers were given, during which cries of " Moss, Garrard, and Tolo " were made. Mr Jury, Chairman of the Trades and Labour Council, came forward and proposed the following resolution :— " That a vote of thanks be awarded to Sir Julius Vogel for his instructive address that night, also a vote of confidence" (Cries of No ! No ! Yes ! Yes ! and great disorder.) Mr Jury, in moving the resolution, said that he could without fear of contradiction say that the present Ministry was the only one that had a tempted to allow the working men to carry out the work of this colony. Sir Julius Vogel was the representative of that Government, and to him it was mainly duo that these attempts had been made It might, perhaps, bo the thin end of the wedge for some scheme not at present patent to outsiders, but let them take what thoy could get and be thankful, and support such a motion. Mr Suiter seconded the'motion. He stated that he had been requested to second the vote of thanks and confidence. He did so with pleasure, because a short time ago, when Sir Julius Vogel had addressed a meeting in Auckland, they had not listened to him so favourably as at the present. That showed that the foeling of the public was wearing towards Sir Julius Vogel. (Cries of No ! No! and hisses.) Mr Suiter then proceeded to relate a tale about a young man who was a particular friend of his. (A Voice : Was it Parnell ? Laughter.) That young man was wooing a youug lady— (A Voice: You don't say so !) —but the young man found that the lady was in indigent circumstances, and he at once began to cool off. Subsequently the young lady became wealthy, and the young man returned to he*-, ani again prosecuted his suit. (A voice : That was mean.) The two were now married, being prosperous and happy. (Laughter.) He might say — (Uproar and hisses. ) After some time, the Mayor obtained order, and claimed for Mr Suiter the right to express the opinion that he held. Mr Suiter then attempted to speak, when the uproar commenced. Ultimately Major Green advanced to the front of the stage, and prodded the speaker with his umbrella, and motioned him to sit down. Ultimately Mr Suiter retired to the shelter of the wings amidst the yells of the audience who appeared to fully appreciate the fact that the Mayor of Newmarket had been removed by the Sheriff. Mr William Hodge came forward when order had been restored, and mored as an amendment "That a vote of thanks be given to Sir Juliua Vogel for his address that evening, and that when the elections came round the voters should show their opinions of his policy through tho ballot box. (Cheers). Mr Faunall moved, as an amendment upon Mr Hodge's proposition, " And that this meeting enters its most emphatic protest against any further borrowing (immense uproar; cheers and hisses) on the part of this colony until the taxation of this colony is so adjusted that those who gain by the borrowing slull pay for the loan" (Great cheering). Mr Farnall said that he remembered when Sir Julius Vogel first brought forward his railway schemes. He showed how at the end of the tenth year these railways were to pay back both the principal and interest" (Sir T ulius Vogel: Quite incorrect.) Their railways had gone to the bad at the rate of one million per annum. Although the railways had not paid, still there were people who had benefitted by the loans, and he wanted those people to help proportionally to repay the same. He found that the property in the colony amounted to £165,000,000, and the Property Tax returned £145,000, yet Sir Julius Vogel had stated that ten families in Hawke's Bay alone had been benefited to the extent of nearly £2,000,000. Why, if such had really been tho case, then those families alone should have paid one-eighth of the total amount returned by the Property Tax. That showed there was something wrong, and he would like to see these matters better adjusted before any more loans wore raised. Mr Whitcombe seconded the resolution pro forma. He asked whether the South Island had any right to demand that the proposed East and West Coast railway should be constructed out of loan moneys. (Sir Julius Vogel : I did not say so.) So far the South Island had had two miles of railway for_ every mile made in the North Island. His experience as census enumerator had shown him that the South Island had only one tenth more population than the North Island.and yetS millions sterling of loan money had been expended there for railways, as against 4 millions spent in the North Island. Now if the 3 millions required for this new line in the South were granted, it would have got 11 millions against the North Island's 4 millions. How were they to be safeguarded from the inovitable fact that their promised million would not be manipulated so as to secure the further 3 millions for the South ? The talk about the expenditure on roads and bridges was all dust and cobwebs as compared with this matter. (Applause, and a voice "Kub t

in.") The depression had been brought about by increased Customs duties, and the inflation caused thereby, and the Government by increasing thoso duties had not tended to cure it. Mn. T. B. Hill hoped the meeting would express its opinion whether or not the dissolution this year, which they were told would cost £25 000, should be granted. Mr Jury wished to make some remarks in reply to Mr > 8 speech, but could not obtain a hearing. The Chairman then put to the meeting Mr Hodge's amendment as added to by Mr Farnall, and the resolution. Thore ap peared to be a very slight majority against the amendment, and the Chairman there-, fore declared it to be lost. Mr Hodge asked for the appointment of two scrutineers, but on the question being put to the meeting it was negatived. The resolution was next put and carried. Sir Julius Vorkl returned thanks for tho j resolution, making special reference to the fact that he was specially grateful to those who were opposed to him. Ho concluded by moving a vote of thanks to tho Mayor, mentioning that when he came to Auckland next year, he hoped that gentleman would write "M.H.R. " after his name. This was carried with applause, and the meeting terminated with a cheer for Sir George Grey.