MONDAY.

Te Aroha News, Volume III, Issue 116, 22 August 1885, Page 4

MONDAY.

Immediately after prayers, the member for Bruce was introduced by Messrs MacAndrew and Fulton. The Premier moved that Government business have precedence on Thursday evenings in future^ After some discussion the motion was agreed to.

Public Works Statement. Mr Montgomery asked without notice when the Public Works Statement would be delivered. The Minister for Works said that Bince he came into the House the member for Akaroa had been good enough to give him notice that he intended to ask the question. He had to state in reply that jt was his intention to have brought down the Works "Statement at the end of this week, but in view of the recent disturbance of public J business ■he was unable at the present moment t© saylon what day the Statement 'would be brought down. It would be brought down as soon as it possibly could 1 be. '(Laughter.) ... Major Atkinson : Will the hon. gentle-, 'man kindly inform the House, of the nature r of the disturbance referred to 1

The Minister for Works in reply: I might ask my friend What the disturbance has been, and what has been the cauee of it. Major Atkinson was about to vouchsafe an answer, when he was interrupted by the Speaker remarking that the next order had been called on.

The Estimates. ) The House then went into Committee of Supply on the Estimates. The Minister of Education's Department*. On the item public schools, £315,500, Captain Sutter moved the reduction of the special capitation allowance from 5s to 2s 6d. The Premier said this could not be done, as existing arrangements •would require the carrying of the whole vote. , Captain Sutter said that in his district the expenditure on education was so great that secondary schools were being erected all over the country. Mr Moss suggested that if Captain Sutter's district did not want the aid, the vote for that district Bhould be struck out. He assured the Committee that Auckland required as much money as it could get. Mr Turnbull said h« had an amendment to move before that of Captain Sutter, viz., the reduction of the whole vote by 1 £50,000. He affirmed that the children of wealthy parents who could well afford to pay took advantage of free education. He thought parents should be required to make a statutory declaration that they could not afford to pay for the education of their children. Besides this, they were grinding down their Roman Catholic fellow- colonists, who were striving to educate their children themselves. Mr Fergus condemned the action of Mr I Turnbull in bringing on a debate on the education question at this time. He spoke strongly against the amendment. Mr Dargayille said the effect of the amendment would be that 50 or 60 per cent, of the teachers' salaries would require to be taken away. He hoped that not a penny of the vote would be reduced. Mr Turnbull urged that the Committee should submit to a moderate reduction of the vote. After further discussion, Mr Fulton asked the Minister for Education what effect the limitation of the school age proposed in the Legislative Council would have on the vote. The Premier replied a reduction of £50,000 or £60,000 per annum. Mr Fergus further questioned the Premier, and elicited the information that the striking off of children under soven years of age would mean the closing of a large number of small schools in sparselysettled districts. Mr Montgomery said it was important that children should attend school before they were seven years of age, and quoted statistics of other countries that the limit of school age ranged from three to five years. He said also that the figures showed that theNew Zealand system wasmore economical than that of the sister colonies, He condemned strongly the reduction of the vote. Mr Turnbull said the children of the poorer classes left school ai eleven years, so that after that age the vote largely benefited children of the intermediate classes. Mr BuciciiAND saida private school would beat the Government school at eveiy point for boys. At Parnell Grammar School, boys educated at a cost of £10 per annum beat those educated at Auckland Grammar School, whose education cost £17 10a. It was a farce trying to teach children under seven. Ho learnt more at ten years than he had for years previously, and, though he said it himself, he generally was at the head of his class. Mr Joyce raised a laugh by remarking that it was evident Mr Buckland had not been a precocious child. He was developing now, and in the course of 10 or 20 years, when he had got rid of his juvenility, he was sure he would be one of the gravest seigneurs in the House. He opposed the reduction of the vote. Mr Ormond thought the Public Works Statement should have been brought down before they were called on to deal with the important matter of the education estimates. He called on Mr Stout to let the House know if the Ministry earnestly wished the education system maintained in its entirety. Mr Stout said that it was not fair to ask him to discuss Captain Sutter's amendment when dealing with one by Mr Turnbull. On Mr Turnbulls amendment being put, the voting was : Ayes, 6 ; noes, 62. Captain Sutter then moved that a special capitation allowance (80,000 at ss) be reduced from £20,000 by £1. The Minister for Education denied that an attack on the 9xtra capitation allowance was an attack on the education system. Personally, he thought this allowance was somewhat excessive, and for that reason wished the feeling of the Committee tested. Mr Bryce did not think the education system worked fairly, as between rich and poor. In hi 3 opinion a fee should be charged for higher primary schools, except in cases of scholarships. He deprecated any reduction in the vote, except by the Government. Mr Ormond denied that the special capitation allowance could be done without. He deprecated the Premier inviting the Committee to take a vote to indicate to the Government the wish of Parliament on tbe matter. He thought that they should encourage lads to remain at school. For that reason he objected to removing the capitation allowance from tho higher classes of primary education. Mr Fulton pressed the Government to disclose what would be the building vote. Mr Stout said the same amount as last year. Mr Fulton feared that with the increased number of children, this would not be sufficient. The amendment was lost on the voices. The item, £315,500, public schools, was then carried on the voices. Native Schools, £15,400, passed as printed. Item, Industrial Schools, £17,471. Mr Fitziierbert moved that the sum of £185 for servants be struck out, and from his story of a personal visit of inspection it appeared that there was an absolute want of discipline there. The Premier defended the item, and said arrangements had been made with the trustees of the Costley estate whereby technical education would be provided. Mr Turnbull said the Kohimarama institution was a waste of money, because there was no means of employing the lads in the place, The item was carried. The following items passed without discussion :— Deaf and Dumb Institution, £2,675 ; higher education, £3,550; subsidies to public libraries, £4,000 ; total vote, £361,186. ! Thus the vote passed as printed. I Class IV, — Justice Department was next considered. For this the total vote asked for was £116,660. Item, Department of Justice, £950, agreed to j item, Crown Law Office, £2,325. Mr Rollestos expressed the opinion that from a return laid on the table of professional gentlemen engaged by ths Government, there was great room for improvement. The law expenses of the colony were quite appalling, Mr Conolly said the amount paid away in fees to lawyers' was'an increasing evil.

Thk Premier defended the expenditure of the Crown Law Department, and said that, where possible, he appeared himself in Court to save expense. Item passed as printed. The following items also passed as printed after considerable discussion : Patent Office, £195; Supreme Court, £8,593 j Bankruptcy £4,266 j District Resident Magistrate's and Warden's Courts, £48,414 ; criminal prosecutions, £11,600 ; Coroners, £3,200 j miscellaneous services, £3,000 ; prisons, £34,115. The total departmental vote thus passed as printed. Class 9, Native Aftairs. Total, £19,944. After some discussion the vote passed as printed. Claes 13, Lands. The items passed as printed, as follows :— Crown Lands Department, £20,786 : Thermal Springs Act expenses, £9,175 ; Crown lands, miscellaneous, £4,675 ; coalfields, £225 ; Survey Department, £7,881 ; total vote, £113,677. At 1.40 a.m., the question was put that the Chairman do report progress, and ask leave to sit again, and the House rose.