PARLIAMENT.

Taihape Daily Times, 25 September 1919, Page 5

PARLIAMENT.

WAR GRATUITIES. DEBATE IN PARLIAMENT. GOVERNMENT’S PROPOSALS CRI’I‘ICISED_ PROPOSAL TO REFER BACK FOR RECONSIDERATION.

WELLINGTON, Sept. 24. In the House this afternoon, Sir James Allen read tables of comparisons between -the graluities granted by Canada and New Zealand, showing that New Zealand was more liberal in the treatment of her soldiers than the Sister Dominion. He stated that Cana(la.’s assistance to the éolcliers totalled twenty millions, but on a. population basis, Canada’s expenditure, to equal New Zealand’s should have amounted

to forty-two millions.. . SPEECH BY SIR JOSEPH WARD. Sir Joseph Ward said the statement just. read went. to prove the reasonableness of the request he now made for

delay in discussion, because on one point—the treatment of sick mcn——the Minister himself had stated he wanted still furtlicr time to consider it, and if the Minister required further time, how much more did members need it‘? He found fault with the proposed treatment of wounded men in the matter of gratuities. A man who came back to New Zealand and remained in hospital should not be treated less favourably than the man who recovered in England. Healso objected to the method of computing the value of a gr-atuityby first taking into account allowances and pi-ivileges given to soldiers. It was most unfainto give with one hand and take it away with the other. He had no wish to obstruct the Government in this nla7tter, but he felt bound to suggest that there ought to haveibeen a

difference made in favour of married

men. The proposals made “for married men were inadequate, and what about [the seamen who had" been engaged in ,the war._zoll-e as mMi_ne_-sweepers, or.i_.n fthe niercantile marine? They cer‘tain]y ‘ should be__,_included. Then he c9uld_eo'c. Seemanything 4indie»a.t.ing_ that _nurses '.:w.Ae.i-le included, . ~. i . _« ,_ ; _The Hon. MacDonald -seconded the i‘-I.nl_endnl.ent_ He said he did not desire "totembarrass the Government, and he 'ee_rtainly did not approve ofsoldiers or others who sought to demand exeessive allowances from the Government at the bayonet’s point, but heidid think before this matter was finally determined they should give it every consideration. Mr Holland said the Labour Party would view this matter from the point of view of Working men. Ninety per cent. of the soldiers were working men, and t‘hese men were being offered the stone of ’/6 per day, instead of the bread of 4/ per_ day they had asked for.

Mr Massey deprecated an/y attempt

to make this a party question. Members Of the Opposition. We do Lnot‘w:lllt to make it a party quest}:-n. Mr Massey said he was glad to have

that assurance, because he was anxious to do the right thing. At the same time he recognised that we had

Ito face a serious financial position. He -always believed that we would not got Ethrough the war under a hundred mil:lions. He compared the gratuity paid jto soldiers after the Boer War by the iLiberal Government, when privates igot £5, with the proposals of his Govjernment_ Something had been said iabout the mercantile marine He releognised the great value of that ser{vice, and he reminded the House that lsincc June, 1916, a special, war bonus }was paid by the shipping companies I to the men crossing the war zone. At ithe same time he recognised that the ‘Dominion had some responsiblity to {the men on the ships used. as transports prior to their being talien over jhy the Imperial authorities, and it ‘would be the duty of the Government Etc consider what that responsibility iwas .He Would“ find out what was be[ing done in Britain, but he certainly ;would not agree to a gratuity for offi‘cers unless it was also given to the men. Regarding the amendment, he could not help thinking it was a party move-. That was the view the majority of the public would take of it. It was for the public to judge of what; the Governnienf had done. If theyc were net satisfied, they had their I'(‘.ll’l*‘ edy at the polls. ‘ Sir Joseph Ward, by way of expla.n—! ation, denied .he had been actuated b?‘ a spirit of party. His course was perfcltly constitutional, and nothing would deter him from doing his constitutional duty. SIR J. VVARD,’S AMENDMENT LOST WELLINGTON, This Dar. At 2.5 Mr S. G. Smith (Taranaki) concluded his speech, and 511‘ Joseph Ward’s nmelldment was hut and G9‘ .;vla,red lost on the voi.ces. A division“ was c-a11e(1 for, resulting in the amendment being; lost by 37 to 30. Mr Mccbmbs then moved another} amendment to the following‘ effect: “That. without restrictino‘ the mini-

mum charges pl-o::?i'ed for, the Governernment be recommended to amend these proposals by nuakixig the gratu§ties payable from the date of going into camp $0 the date of discharge, the gratuity pz‘-ymcfit to be 4/ per day——2/ to be paid in cash _and 2/ in five Po!‘ cent. war bonds, redeemable in five years.

Mr Mas§ey asked the Speaker to rule whether the anl'e'il‘d'nlen!; did not amount to an appropriation, and therefore was out of ordel'_ The" Speaker ruled that the amendment amounted simply to a recommendation. _lt was not an order, and the Government was not obliged to give. effect to it. TTiel"ef'ore it did not amount to an appx-6pl-’ia.tion and was in order."

Continuing his al‘gument_. Mr Mo-’ Combs said the comparison which the Minister made between the Canadian and, New Zealand payments‘ to soldiers was wholly misleading, and he stronéiy objected to such a document being Cir. culated by the Government throughout the eounitxy. If the Gcvernment had followed the Labour Party’s advice in paying soldiers such a rate as they could make proper provision for i-ueir dependents, ‘there weuid have been no diffieulty in getting recruits in the early stages of war; but the fact was they were too closely concerned with protecting financial shirkers. ' ~Mr Vvalker seconded the amend’ment.

-' Mr P_ Fraser supported the amendment because it most nearly complied with the wishes of the soldiers, and there was .ample Wealth to make the proposed payment’ possible. . ‘ Mr Veitch opposed the amendment because it was a waste of time. If ythe Labour Party played the game as it should have done, and supported the country through the war. they would have been on a pedestial to-day, and could have won the next election. ' After Mr Holland -had supported the laniendment and Messrs Witty and .- Tziflbot opposed it,\a divfcion was call-.ed.L.:foi-f.\at._i_.3.ss, wh_e_n,_ the .§gtlll.endl_ll',le_r§llu was lost. by 37 to 5, those voting Eat it" being‘ Messrs McCombs, Wa=ll;er.' Fl'as_e_r._Holl'and‘, and Semple. ~ _ l . Sir Juamres-.Allen,w. everythinggthat co_t_ll'cl be,dhon.pe.. to get this question of gratuities settled_by. lthe National.Go'vernnlenth was done,‘ and he read _Cabinet minutes to show that the question had been settled out a basis of 1/ per (Tfy, costing £1,255,-* iOOO. He believed this question shoulds have been settled by the Nationalj 'Government. and he had appealed toi ‘Sir J_ VVard to get it settled beforei [they broke up. Even after they broke up he asked the Premier's leave to give Sir J. Ward his confidence, andl lthe Premier agreed he might do sof! l*He asked Sir J. Ward 'to come andfl isee him; he asked him three times. At last Sir J_ Ward came to see him. Haj was not prepared to tell the House] {what Sir J. Ward said, but although; ihe was prepared to give Sir Joseph his = confidence nothing was. done. Those 1 who blamed the National ,'Government]' I for not settling the ‘question now ‘knew iwhy it had not been done. Proceed-I ing ,he explained that the Government! [had delayed announcing their scheme ‘because it was deemed advisable to lprovide retrospective allowances, H-.2: 7defen‘d *t;'he provisions of the Pen-I sions Act, and -elaimedgthe Government.‘ had not neglected to provide for the men of the mercantile marine. The! amount of 1/6 per day was determined‘ upon by Cabinet in view of the grave} financial responsibilities of the coun I try. The Government’s complete pro-3 posals would absorb about £6,905,000_i The proposal of the Leader of the Op-I position meant an expenditure of} £8,755,000, while the Labour propos-I als would involve an expenditure of H £1_6,660,760. The‘ "position was thus; placed before, the HOUSE. He was BX-[ ceedingly sorry they had not been able’ to come to an amicable agreement 011; this question, as he would liked to -have seen the gift"}’n‘ade to the soldiers freely and graciously.

Sir J. Ward made a personal explanJation denying he was consulted about the National Cabinet,’s gratuity pro‘posals before S-ir J. Allen made his lstatement in the House, and he was not at the Cabinet meeting when the ’pro‘posa-lg were a.pproved_ The ntatter |was never brought up at Cabinet meet.-‘ ’illgs after he returned to New Zealand. ‘He did see Sir J. Allen after he left Cabinet, but he could not then discuss th matter with him, because he might find himself in complete disagiecnicnt with the party of which he was the head. The proper way to have dealt with this matter was to have submit--ted it to a joint meeting of both parties, instead of iryillg to Tush it through at one sitting, then there might have been a chance of getting a sort of agreement about the proposals. l The motion that the paper lie on the ; table and be printed was then put and} carried. ' i The House rose at 5 o’elock’till' 7.301 to—night_ THE DIVIS-IQ'N L\IST..' The following is the division list 011] Sir Joseph Wa.rd’s amendment in the

House on the question of_soldicrs’ gm. tuities:—— For amendment (30): Anstey, Brown, Buddo, Carrol], Colvin, Dickie, Forbes, P. Fraser, Hanan. Holland, Isitt, Jennings, McCallum, McC'ombs,Myers, Poland, Poole, Russell, Seddon, Semple, Sidey, R. -W. Smith, s. G. Smith, Talbot, Thacker, Veitch, Yvalker, Ward, Wilford. Witty_ _ Against (373: Allen, Anderson, Bo}-' land, Coates, Cl-‘aigie, J. M. Dickson, J. s. Dickson, T. A.’ H_ Field, W H. Field, Sir W. Fmser,‘ Guthrie, Harris, Henare, Herrjes, Hine, Hornsby, Hunter, Lee, Luke, Malcolm, Mander, Mas‘-. sey, Nash, Nosworthy, Parr, Pearce! Pomare, Reed, R_ H. Rhodes, T. W. Rhodes, Scott, G.‘ H. Smith, Stathama Sykes; Ul-ut, Wright and Young.