Rate or a Tax?

Stratford Evening Post, Volume XXX, Issue 7, 11 April 1916, Page 2

Rate or a Tax?

A CITIZENS’ DEPUTATION. WARM DISCUSSION AT THE COUNCIL TABLE. SANITARY GONV ESSENCES. COUNCILLORS AIR GRIEVANCES. NOTICE OF MOTION TO RESCIND THROWN OUT. A largo deputation of citizens waited on tHe Borough Council meeting last night in connection with the oft time discussed sewerage and water charges. At a meeting of the Council some time ago the Mayor moved :“lhat the waterworks by-iaws he amended m the direction of making a charge of £1 per annum for water closets under the heading of extraordinary water supply , where there is one closet, and in cases where there are two closets 10s be charged for each extra closet.” The motion was lost again. At last month’s meeting the Mayor moved: ‘‘That the waterworks by-laws, be amended in the direction of making a charge of £1 for all wated-flnshed closets connected with the sewer.”-—Carried. At the ! conclusion of last meeting Or. Lawson l.vavo notice of motion to rescind the resolution passed. In the mean tune I much discussion had taken place m I the town on the matter, and the deputation last night was the outcome. Cr. Lawson briefly introduced the ‘deputation. 1 Mr H. Wilson asked if the £1 tax 'was imposed would the rates be levied, las far as he knew the rates covered [the cost of the interest of the loan raised for the drainage of the Borough. ! He said he would like to know Lorn the Council the real object of the Council in proposing the new rate. Mr Wilson said he had attended to protest against the imposition of the new rate, j The Mayor said those persons who used the closets would he made to pay | and those who did-not use the closets | would not have to pay. Cr. Thompson asked "ho was repie|seating the deputation that was in opposition to the motion. The Mayor said the deputation protested against the payment of the tax and the fate.

Mr W. J. Newton said there were a great number present in sympathy with Cr Lawspn’s resolution. The pajmg of' a £1 a year for the privilege of usirm from 5 to 10 gallons of water a day took one back to medieval times. Years ago the people were taxed on the number of windows they had m their houses, and the money was used for making and upkeeping the streets He did not object to paying £1 u u were earned, but he failed to see how, in the present case, the money was earned. The. drainage rate had been struck, and the Council could resolve I not to collect the rate, but there was nothing to stop the Council reinstating the rate in six months time. Hie inducements were for the people not to connect. They should take no notice of the attitude of other towns in Nev, Zealand in the matter; some town had to take a lead. (Applause). Mr T. La mason asked what it "as proposed to do with the £l-a year. The Mayor replied that the amonn 1 would he used to pay the interest on . the drainage loan. 1 Mr Laraason said the rate "as a i ready paying the interest. The Mayor said they would use the £1 tax instead of the rate. Mr T. Mercer asked if it was right that if a man paid £lO for connecting ; thut he should be penalised a £1 a year

[or 1' .at ? i The Mayor said it would cost more i- •> septic tank was installed. They 1 had io pay £1 for the drainage after the Council had put the 'sewer up to the boundary. Stratford and Nelson were the only towns in New Zealand that put the sewer to the boundary. Mr Lamason waid it was the usual custom in up-to-date towns for the (Council to put in the drainage and ' take the cost out of the sinking fund, i The Town Clerk said that was no so. The cost was paid hack by instal-

ments. Mr C. Jackson said in the event ot a person installing a septic tank costing £3O, ln> would not have drainage, hut lie would he asked to pay £1 I°‘ the flushed closet. The Mayor replied that that was not

! so. j -vii- C. D. Sole said no benefit was derived from the man with a septic tank. The tax should be imposed equally if the property was connected with a septic tank or the sewer. Newton said he did not object to the paying of the sanitation rate. He objected to paying the £1 tax for the quantity of water used, f Cr. Hunter instanced the case where a man who had recently erected a j building, under the new rating would j pay £3 yearly, while the person who j owned the section next door, and j whose land was increasing in value all J the time, pakl nothing. • Mr Wilson asked whether, if the charge was put on, would the Council promise not to collect the rate. This was his only objection to the question. The Mayor said for his part, if that matter was framed as a by-law, the rate would not be collected. Mr C. B. Walsh asked if the Council would give a pledge net to collect the rate. The Mayor said the matter would he decided at the meeting. Tim Town Clerk instanced other rate s that were annually recurring but were I not collected. . Mr Lamason said he was against the tax. Ho was in favor of a loan to extend the sewerage system.

In answer to a question the Mayor said that the cost of the general upkeep of the drainage system was taken out of ordinary revenue. Mr Jaskson asked if all in the area who were connected would have to pay the £l. The Mayor replied; in the affirmative. Mr Solo said the man who had a .septic tank would he excepted. Mr R. D. Le wers Said he objected to the principle, 'A man who made the connection, which cost about £6O, would lose interest on that sum and ha.ro to pay £1 besides. As already Suggested he favored a loan to extend the drainage. Mr B. Hark ness asked why the £1 tax was not made general, bringing in the septic tank as well as the sewerage. If all the people in the area were connected a smaller rate would suffice. It was no encouragement to connect if £1 a year had to be paid. Mr White said they were imposing a| tax on cleanliness and decency. If a man was building, the tax would tend to lessen the number of water closets j installed.

f The Mayor stated that ho did not ( think the tax would have the material effect as suggested by Mr White. | “DAM FOOLS!” j Mr P. Skoghmd, on behalf of the deputation’s members who wished to uphold the Council’s action of taxing water-flushed closets £1 yearly, said it was always desirable to get the audience into a humorous mood by telling a short story. A gentleman who had called to see him on Sunday evening, 1 said he had been asked to wait on the Council as a member of a deputation against the imposing of the £1 tax. The gentleman had asked him how the tax affected the people generally, as he did not .wish to wait on the Council until he was conversant with the facts. After learning the facts the gentleman said those who did not advocate the tax were ‘‘dam fools.” It had been said there was no incentive for the £1 a year tax for the connecting privilege.: They were keeping the sanitation of the Borough in a good condition. For years the people of the Borough had been paying a special rate for drainage, which was only enjoyed by a few. One-fifth of the residents enjoyed the privilege and the other four-fifths had to pay. . As long ns this occurred the minority would take advantage of the sewerage. He instanced his own case, whereof it had cost him £4O and then he was not connected with the sewer. If a property was connected with the sewer it would add value to that property. When the abattoir loan was carried a rate was struck hut never collected, and the same could be said about the Town Hall loan and the water loan of £4OOO. All the institutions paid except the Hall, so (hero was no need to collect. A loan would 1)8 struck for the Municipal Buildings, but if it paid the revenue expected, the rates would not be collected. If a mail was letting a bouse and if it was connected with the sewer it would be worth 2s 6d to os more per week than a house not connected. Ho said he trusted the Council would have the courage to go on with the motion- passed at last meeting.

A SUGGESTION. Mr Newton said a far more equitable way out would be to increase the water rate, sufficient to bring in the necessary revenue. He did not object to the town being made thoroughly sanitary, hut it was the obsolete way they had of collecting. Mr Wilson said ho was in sympathy

| with the original motion provided the

■ rate struck was not collected.

THE MOVER OF THE MOTION. Cr Lawson then moved that the | resolution passed at last meeting of the Council imposing a tax ol £1 for i each water-flushed closet ho rescinded, i He thanked the Clel’k for his remarks j on the position, as he believed lie was f the initiator of the scheme. | The Mayor said ho could not allow such an insinuation, for one thing the Clerk had no right' of reply. Cr Lawson was quite wrong in his opinion. i . ♦ Cr Lawson, continuing, said he dlf- ( fered from his Worship, but he bowed Ito bis decision. He then referred to the number of times that the scheme had ,been brought up and thrown out : and resurrected again. In the dying hours of the old Council it had been 1 also discussed and y.otcd nut by the j Council almost unanimously. But on j the third occasion it was carried. 1 Still, he (the mover) raised his objection to the scheme as it was wrong .in principle altogether. When he I spoke on it at first, lie was one of ' those who had the privilege of being 1 connected with, the sewer, for which j ho reminded trio Council the cost to him had been about £ 10; the cost lining extra through having to go through another property to connect. Although ho was'diot now in the same position, lie though it was unfair that users of the sewer should be taxed. 'When the Council raised, the loan, it : pledged itself to the ratepayers to pay the tax and special interest, and now it had broken that pledge and treated it as a “Scrap of Paper.” Because j the drainage ran past a certain rate-j payer’s property the Council was go-1 ing to make him pay an extra £4, even after it had cost him say, £3O or £4O to connect with the sewer. With the interest on the money expended and the £1 tax, it was going to be a 'dear convenience. Cr Lawson read the special order of 1903, when the '{nan was raised on the drainage Scheme, setting forth that a rate of one-twelfths of a penny be paid in the rateable value of all property in Iho borough. Now, they were going to break that pledge.

A Councillor:. ‘‘.Nonsense!” Cr Lawson said the principle of rating in the Borough was on the unimproved value, hut immediately the Council imposed a tax of £1 it was going against the principle, and was being imposed on the improved value. Cr Lawson complimented the Mayor on having adhered to his opinion and voted on the scheme right through. At the same time lie could not help thinking that his action in bringing the scheme before the' Council was rather selfish. Personally, lie considered H was an insult to the intelligence of the Council. Cr Lawson then referred to the attitude of councillors on the subject. In his opinion, Cr Thompson was “a wobbler of the first water—absolutely!” In proof of this, Cr Lawson read some of the statements of the colinciMr in question, showing his wobbling abilities during ' the past twelve months. At .the groat 1 finale of .the old eriuineil;goil. Sfafch 9,. 1916, Cr Thompson said Plu' liachraised his objections long ag|o>;.it i> was : now 1 that all should livfl up’to ,tho convictions.” If he had convictions, continued the speaker, (hen all lie could i say was that he must?have jjdpt them ! J At the same meeting, Cr Tronipson j stated he was not speaking for elec- . tion purposes, and he was definitely opposed to 2s fkl being charged for. each tap, and he would go further and I pose the lot—and he did! On 1

: June 16, 1916, Cr Hunter opposed the | | motion on the grounds that the procedure of specific taxation was unlair, and he contended that ratepayers who were paying a water rate, and at their own expense put in improvements, should not be penalised. Cr j Thompson agt’Orl with Cr Hunter, i which was his ‘‘second wobble! The Mayor remarked that, Cr Lawson’s quotations had no bearing on the matter under discussion. Cr La wson; I think it has, as I want to show the wobbling abilities of some conn cillors. J Cr Thompson: “All things have j changed.” _ I Cr Lawson; Probably the price of! foodstuffs have, as well as Crs Thomp-, son and Mills! Continuing, he said, that now was not the time to increase the taxation on any section of the community, but the Council should, if possible, relieve them of any taxation, which would he a good thing for the borough and citizens. Cr Lawson said he wished to touch slightly on Cr Mills’ action, and he quoted his remarks where he stated “that the loan would doubly tax ratepayers who had ’flushed closet installed ; the small amount received irom a tax on present users would only provide for the instalment of about 200yds of drainage—the only means would be a loan.” Another wobbler! In face of these facts, concluded Cr Lawson, they have changed their opinion after a lapse 1 of twelve months, and all I can say is that I am sorry for,them.

ANOTHER SUPPORTER. Cr Hunter espoused the'cause of those who lived on the out-flirts of the town, incidentally remarking that he lived there. , Cr Young: Yon live outside.

Cr Hunter; Please keep quiet, Cr j Young; you are always interrupting. Cr Lawson rose to a point ol order. Cr Hunter said that he would answer any questions Cr Young wanted to know when he was finished his speech: It seemed to him that everything tliat was in order was in Cr Young’s favor, and everything against him was not in order. Continuing, Cr Hunter referred to-the financial standpoint, and stated that with some people it was their rule, when anything appeared to be against their interests, to take a selfish vie wand vote against it. He said ho had' opuo ed the scheme all the time, not because it was a matter of whether it was on the rateable value or not, but because it was making a specific' tax and he could not see where that principle was going to come to an end. He was directly against the basic principle involved. Then, after they had put it on for taxation purposes, it was .very hard to get it taken off. It was the same with the price of any commodities; it was easy to raise the price, but hard to lower it, and harder still to get the additional price taken off. Therefore, it was quite easy to reimpose taxation, and in his candid ! opinion he must say that that might jbe done. The purpose was to induce the man living upon the outskirts of the town and who could afford* it to -go hi for a comprehensive scheme of sewerage. At first, perhaps, he would pay from Is 2d to, say 3s Cd for a drainage rate, hut it would not be long before he would have to pay the tax of £l. If they were going to make a ratepayer pay £1 the Council should take the drainage up to h:m and get him to pay the extra tax on the closet. But he was increashig his rates 60 or 60 per rent., and where was the man who would vote for it

. when he was paying only about Is 6cl to 2s. In. his own case, undjer the proposed plans for building a premises in Broadway, he would have undei ' this system to pay an extra £l2, which ' would have been absolutely unreason- ! able. In McAllister’s case he would j,would have to pay £3, but the man at the corner, although he had the value of the section increased, had the tax taken off him, and did not pay a penny. It suited the man who paid the biggest vales and drew the biggest rents. In bis own case, he paid twenty-seven times as much rates as some men on the outskirts. He wanted to know why the Council should not make him pay for the 1 whole street. There was the incoii- ! sistoncy of the matter all through. |He was of opinion that the man on 1 the outskirts of the town had th'e 'best end of the stick all the time. If that man thought he was going to gain anything by voting for u water oi drainage loan let him stop and think, and he would find that he was entirely on the , best wicket, arid was not burdened very much. The man who held, say, sixty acres on the outskirts was hanging on to get increased value through his neighbour improving his property. Under this scheme, they would pay not a penny. He (Cr Hunter) said he was just as mucTi in favor of an equitable tax as anybody, but ihe wanted it to be equitable. But ithey were taking it oil the big man 'and putting on the small man, and I where, he would like to know .did the (consistency conic in? He had opposed the scheme consistently all the time. If it had been made a reasonable tax, well and good, but a Hat rate of £1 was absolutely inconsistent. The rate was not too cheap for hotels with (five or six conveniences, hut on. the whole they should have a more equitable basis. In conclusion, Cr Hunter [said the whole scheme was a plain proposition to him.

FIRST OPPOSITION. Cr Young opposed the motion. This was a charge under which the users who received great sanitary benefit j would pay. The loan of £6OOO affected about 250 houses, and the balance pan] jno drainage rats and got no benefit. jl’lio so outside paid,£l for the contractor and those inside who had the benefit are asked to pay £l. He was sure those now receiving the benefit would not go back to the old style again. The fact of the matter was, the balance of the houses wanted tft come in. Some years age they tried to raise a loan of £2OOO, but they wore not successful. This was on account of the selfish manner in which those receiving the benefit had treated the question. Cr Young said the deputation seemed to be under a* wrong impression. Cr Hunter talked about the outskirts This was an equitable, system, and the Council might induce the ratepayers to go' in for a loan to do the greater part of the Borough, but still with their 1900 acres half the borough could not afford it. The Council did not propose to charge outsiders; then wliy should not those who get the benefit pay ? Every town that was up to date went in for the scheme. Councillors knew nothing. Cr Lawson : Thank you, Cr Young. Cr Young was heard to remark something about a foci—or (A member: “Oh, Say Lunatic!). .Other members protested at the tone of the discussion. Cr- Young: It shows a want of enmmonsense or of the knowledge of a fair thing! In conclusion, ho raid that after hearing the arguments of certain members of the reputation ho complimented them, but some members did not understand the position clearly. The schenqe would do away with the tax which had been unfairly levied for years. HIS WORSHIP’S POSITION. The Mayor referred to the fact that whenever they had attennted to deal with the question, those people who had been well served had treated it in a selfish way. They would require' from £BOOO to £IO,OOO for drainage, but it would be a waste of time amt

money to ask the people to go in for another InanNiow. When the old loan was carried, it was the intention to put sewers in certain streets, hut today they Were not there, and there were acres of the Borough not likely to ho connected .for years. Unless they all worked together, he did not think there was a possibility of obtaining a loan. At any rate, the members of the Council should he above being selfish in the matter, it was human nature, though, to sit tight when they had got what they wanted. As far as his own position was concerned, the Mayor admitted that he was getting the benefit of the system and his neighbor was noi, and he said plainly he did not ieel eom.ortiihle under the Circumstances, The Council had boon instructed to enforce their regulations, and now sumps had to he put in where there was no sewerage, or a building po;mit would not he given. They had to ho very particular in view of the recent outbreak of disease. He explained the cost of building a sump and the upkeep, and pointed out that they had to be cleaned out by the borough workmen, who were paid out of revenue, as there was no other means of doing so, their loans having all been eaten up. He had been advocating the system for years, and was surprised to find on coming to Stratford that the borough was in its present state, in New Plymouth the hotels paid 30s for one and £1 for each extra convenience. In almost every place in Now Zealand the same regulations were in force.. Every penny they spent (on drainage came, out of revenue, but it should go on the streets. The CoUnOil you Id' be pleaded if every man who bad‘the opportunity would connect up with..the sewer, hue, then, where was the Council going to get the money from to help them to do so? He quoted the case of a man who had voted for the loan, and although he was paying up to about £3 per annum, he did not have the privileges to this day. That was rot justice, ho admitted, but personally, lie could not see how it could be helped now.

I A Voice; “He can afford it!” I Another Voice: “He is holding the land for an increase in price!” j “Point of Order,” said someone, iml Cr Hunter retorted: “That is all ’try well when it is from your side!”

|, The Mayor, continuing, said tome j were many others who u ere hi the | position of not being able to set ary expectations of enjoying the services j for years, and besides having to use 'the pan, had to dump their refuse on ’a quarter-acre section. REPLY TO “WCBSLSNG.” i Cr Thompson refuted the charges of ! “wobbling” brought l against him by j iCr Lawson. In the motion before the I (old, Couiif.'i^..there .wg? the , charge of £l, .but..ho' mention of the rates being ; relieved. j Cr Hancock said that the motion be- j fore the Council was practically the i same as when Cr Thompson voted against it before. . j Cr ’Thompson said that the present proposal would relieve a very consider* ’ I able portion; of the borough. As lar ; as* Cr Hunter having,.to pay an extra £l2 was concerned, that sum was not ! all additional, but it would be mostly I paid byi the tenants. The case of Mr McAllister was also similar, as provision had Keen made in the building : ! for offices to let. Unfortunately, there . I word cases of land being held on 1 the outskirts of the borough for sprcii- 1 Native purposes, but then the area could not ho altered, and they must take all things as they stand. A MAGNIFICENT SCHEME. | Cr Mills said he did not intend to support the motion. He also dealt with the question of the alleged >vob- j bling. Cr Lawson: Do you admit it? Cr Mills: No! I don’t. Cr Mills said lie opposed the motion 1 when it first came down, but s’ a ted that if the mover would bring down a comprehensive scheme he would support it, otherwise he would he against , him. The motion carried at last meet- ; | ing was on entirely different lines. I I Cr Hunter: “No?”

Cr Mills said he stated that, he would support the other motion if members would agree to support bis, which included the proviso to jelieve the rates. The pos.tiou appeared to he that the man who had the U"e of the drainage would vote against it and tiie man on the outskirts would also be against it. If lie (Cr Mills) was in the same position he would do so himself. He maintained that they were not taxing the people but were selling 'them something. Why, he ashed, (should the man outside the drainage area pay for what the man inside 'gets. It was not British. The scheme was a magnificent scheme. By ing the rates and charging the users '£l per year, it would be the means of helping the town’s future sanitation. It would make little difference to him if tiie amount was £1 or 5s 4u. If it was put in front of his house he would willingly pay the £l, or oven £2. i Cr Lawson: “You must be “flush!” (Laughter). Cr Mills; No: It is enmmonsense. In conclusion, he said it was in- his opinion the only scheme ol sanitation.

“CO THE WHOLE HOG!” Cr Hancock supported Cr Lawson, and objected strongly to the position that those residents who were alongside! the sewer and who had not connected should he relieved of the rate, thereby increasing speculation in the borough and enabling the owners to make, personal gain. He instanced the case yf Celia Street, which had been included in the drainage area, u here there was not a house on it,

lafcive purposes. As to tlie payment Tor the convenience, he thought it was ! unjust, .“-‘ome ratepayers nad been ■ paying for water, .footpaths and roads, land yet had neither. if it was fair to jtako the drainage rate oli those who !cl id not benefit hy it, it was also lair to relieve those ratepayers of tin' halt water rate wise re tPev hate no chance of getting the wait • to tiie;r sections. They should “go tT.' whole hog ’ if they were going to he consistent. He referred to ,Cr Thompson s ‘ C*)bling,” stating that the scheme was practically the same as it was now. The Mayor said he brought up the matter three or lour years ag !, ut taps and other water allairs were pushed into it. this motion was dealing with flushed V* TVs. Cr Hancock : That was done by this council, not the old one. The Mnyev: Thi; is not the same motion at all. Cr Hunter inquire;! il cr i.awson [had the right to reply, and after discussion as to the lengthy nature ol the proceedings by members, Cr Young moved that the question he now put. This was seconded by Cr Thompson, land the voting was in favor of the motion. The Mayor said he did not want to check discussion. He always gave members plenty of time . Cr Hunter: What is sauce for the goose, should be sauce for the gander! The division list showed: Ayes— The Mayor, Crs Young. Thompson, AT il Is, and Davey. Xoes—Crs Lawson, Hunter, Hancock and Stanley. CR MILLS’ MOTION. Cr Mills then’moved the motion standing in his name-—“ That the special drainage over the drainage area be not collected. He said that after the previous discussion there was no need to enlarge on the motion. Cr Thompson seconded the motion. Cr Hunter, in opposing it, said the matter was illegal, and would he opposed in court. The motion on being put, was carried on the voices.

Cr Hancock then gave notice of motion to include nil septic tanks in the sclmuie. Tile Council then adjourned..