PARLIAMENT.

Stratford Evening Post, Volume XXXVI, Issue 78, 6 August 1913, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

TUESD \Y, AUGUST 5.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wellington, August o. The House met at 2.30. Speaking on the report on the petition of Hohepa Rar'etai and Wiremu Roiniri, the Hon. W. H. Hemes stated he proposed to go into the whole question of landless natives in the South Island. " The Magistrate's Courts Bill, Old Age Pensions Bill and Reciprocity Bill were read a third time. LOANS TO LOCAL BODIES.

The second reading of the Local Bodies Loans Bill was moved by the Hon. Jas. Allen. The measure is largely a consolidating one. The principal new feature is a provision to give a State guarantee up to half a million to loans for certain local bodies, which are allowed to go on the London market, the right to do so to be subject to the sanction of the Minister. Mr G. W. Russell said that a limited guarantee would be of little use to large bodies, whose borrowings were extensive. He -claimed that the scope of the Bill should not be limited. Country bodies and small towns were just as entitled to cheap money as county districts. Ho hoped that borrowers would be restricted to London, and not allowed to deplete the local money market. The Prime Minister said that the scope of local bodies' loans had been so evident in recent years that the system, had now broken down, owing to largo demands made upon it. Consequently the guarantee was restricted, from smaller bodies, which could tako arlvantago, either singly or in groups, if not individually strong enough. Speaking of the financial position of the Dominion, he said that there was every indication that the stringency of the money market was passing away.

Sir Joseph Ward was accorded an 'ovation. "He spoke of the difficulty of getting s;i!!"icient money to meet the requirements of loe.nl bodies and carry on the progressiva work of the country. Any local body going on the London niarkel for a loan less than f'ino.no n would !ind itself quite unable to get ii even with a State guarantee.

Mr W. D. S. MacDonald urged that the Government should provide money to isolnted local bodies for the purpose of--constructing roads, and bridges. Mr H. Okey said that special inducement should bo given to large lo-

cai bodies to obtain their loans outride the country, instead of allowing them to absorb the advances of pri- \ ate firms. Mi- G. Witty said the Bill would uut give local bodies an assured finance. The debate ou the Local Bodies Loans Bill wan continued by Messrs. Veiich, Young, Guthrie, Myers and Buddo, the two latter, commenting adversely on the guaranteeing- proposal in clause 71.

The Hon. Jas. Allen, in reply, "said that the'amount available for loans to local bodies was not reduced, and ho was prepared to help the poorer bodies as heretofore. A quarter of » raillion for back-block works had been set aside out of the million appropriated for loans to local bodies. Further assistance would no-rr be given! The State guarantee was provided for by part 111. of the present Bill. In reply to Sir Joseph Ward that small loans could not be raised in London even with a guarantee, he said that the power should be given to a number of the small bodies to join together and raise one large sum. The 'Dominion's credit was safeguarded by the Minister's control of borrowing operations. As a general rule money could be raised in London, but he thought it unwise not to give power to guarantee money raised within the Dominion if necessary. In reply to Mr Okey, he said hospital boards could not be included, because they had no rating powers. The stringency of the..money mmfket was riot peculiar to New Zealand. He thought we were better situated than ; most countries at the present time. The Advances to Settlers'' Department was lending £IOO,OOO per month. Large amounts were also going out) to the workers. ■ -

The Bill was read-a second time STATE ADVANCES BILL.

Mr Allen moved th« second reading of the Sta 4 9 Advances Bill. One of the main features of the Bill was the removal of the Minister from the State Advances Board. Trior© was no real necessity for a Minister on the Board. None of his predecessors had sat on the Board. He believed it better that there should be ilo semblance oi political control. It was far better to leave the Board unfettered. The Board as proposed Was stronger than heretofore. Provision was made for raising the money for the advances to settlers', workers, and local authorities. The ; maximum auipunt to ft« 'raised in any one year V/aa £2.250,000! ' The reserve fund was unaltered,; but the superintendent was compelled to pay .over to 1 the Publie Trustee one' 'rmr 'ceni I for invest-■' ment as a sinking fUnd. Provision' n'i'ts.madi for imprest charges'in orl!« to •previmt''thr; possibility of losses' to. tW Department.^; Th 6 i! superin-: lendient as borrower is done Away with, 1 the Minister being the only one who can borrow.

<Sir Joseph Ward objected to the system of making loans cumulative," be - -' causo under such a system the country could be committed to enormous sums. H> deprecated the'' romov.<il of tha Minister from rhe' 'AdvjnceV Board, as he was the only person who could represent the people and be re-

.sponsible to Parliament. Mr Massey defended tlie'removal of' a Minister from tie* Board as oeing 'fl,' desire to remove any suggestion .of political influence being tißed in connection with loans. Ninety-nine. p.;r cent, of the people did not" know that .tho Board was supopsed to bo qtiiie v.n independent body. He desired 10 make that quite clear. Mr G. W. Bussell contended that the Bill gave tho Court power to raise £3,250,000 annually, a pretty po d performance for a non-borrowing Government. Ho defended the right of members to use reasonable iiiflHoike ;fco get loans in the interests of their constituents. The suggestion that improper influence was used was a reflection on every member of the House.

The Hon. W. H. Hemes argued •that the Government nominee could not, be said to represent the people on the Board. Personally he favored an official trained in official duties to administer the affairs of the Boa'd. The trouble with the Opposition was that they were annoyed that the Government was carrying out' Liberal measures and improving them. Jealousy was the basis of the antagonism to the Bill. The debate was continued by Mersrs Macß-onadd, Laurenson, Hanan, Witty, Tsitfc and Smith. The Hon. J. Allen; in- reply, dewed' that the Government had ever denied the necessity for borrowing, but were against waste and'extravagant expenditure: the principal objection to the Bill was the removal of the Minister from the Board, but the fact was that the Minister was open to the accusation of influence. He thoughc it better to removo him beyond the reaoh of such accusations. The Minister never sat on the Board, so that his right to sit there was farcical. The Minister still- had definite conjvol, and if the Bill was not strong enough ho would be prepared to malre it stronger in Committee. Advances i>ad been made with a view to influencing the last election. He thought such a position should be made impossible. He had never opposed the principle of a Public Debt Extinction Fund, but the lew, in its operation, was a screaming farce. The object of the Bill was to ijive better facilities to borrow money from the State, and it would effectually accomplish its purpose. Tho second reading was carried, and the House adjourned at 12.45 a.m.