PARLIAMENT.

Stratford Evening Post, Volume XXXIV, Issue 19, 14 September 1912, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 13 1912. (Per Press Association.) Wellington, September 13. Sir Joseph Ward. The Speaker read a letter from the Sir Joseph Ward Presentation Committee, asking that the House should accept a photograph of Sir Joseph Ward, to commemorate his retirement from the leadership of Parliament. On the motion of the Prime Ministor, the photograph was accepted. Mi' McNab.

Mr Fisher/informed the House that Mr R. McNab had informed people privately that the information he supplied recently was the- last he would supply, owing to false statements made concerning him and his works. Mr Fisher hoped that Mr McNab would overlook the unfortunate criticism which had taken place, and carry on tho great national work ho had undertaken. The Estimates. The House went into committee on the Estimates.

Defence Olass, £466,388

Mr Hindmarsh asked that the financial adviser he restored to the Defence Hoard, instead of leaving all in tho hands of the Commandant. He •referred to a statement that he had heard from a member of Parliament, that General Godlcy had visited Whangarei, and instead of returning by boat at a cost of £l, he hired a motor and went to a farmer friend's for a week's shooting, A hill amounting to £4O was sent in to the Department. He hoped tho Minister could throw some light on this matter. Mr Allen said that the statement that the scheme would cost £BOO,OOO annually was quite erroneous. Unless something unforeseen -happened, the scheme would cost not more than £400,000. When the scheme was initiated there was a heavy outlay for equipment. Dealing with Mr Hindmarsh's remarks, Mr Allen stated that General Godley had never had a motor-car in the North of Auckland, nor had he ever had a day's shooting there.

Mr Russell contrasted the salaries proposed for colonels . with those received by some of the leading officials in the public service, and showed that in moat cases the colonels were receiving as much as £l5O yearly more than the heads of civilian departmen ts. Mr Fisher said they were bound by commitments made by some of the members on the opposite side of the House when they occupied the Treasury Benches. Mr Allen said that every officer who came out here did so under an engagement made at Home. General Godloy could get charge of a brigade at Home at £IOOO a year, and there would not have half the worry as he has as Commandant in New Zealand. A New Zealander, Colonel Davis, was in charge of a brigade at Home at £IOOO annually, paid by the Home Government. He refuted Mr Russell's statements that military officers were getting more than civil heads. In two years' time they hoped to replace Imperial officers with New Zealandtrained officers. The Estimates were his own, and he would stand by them. If they wanted efficiency they had to pay for it, and he hoped that the House would see that they did.

Mr Myers paid a tribute to (ho "whole-hearted and enthusiastic way in whieji the General had thrown himself into his work." He believed that the ultimate cost of this scheme would not exceed £400,000, and that they would have an efficient army as a result. Mr Hanan admitted that the people wanted a defence system, but they did not want officers running up unjustifiable items of personal expense. Mr Hindmarsh said that New Zealand did not want any of the autocratic ideas associated with the military in England. It was the duty of everyone to protest against grafting anything of that nature on to the system. The social influence of these men was enormous in this country, and any one who attacked it naturally had to incur a certain amount of odium. Mr Anderson considered that the Defence Department was the most important department in the country.

Mr Isitt said that the force should be a citizens' defence league, and every lad should know, no matter what his social position might be, that there was no bar to his advance to the highest position. The Minister of Defence compared the salaries paid to officers in Australia, and showed that in some instances they exceeded those paid in New Zealand by as much as £2OO a year. He also quoted the names of officers appointed from comparatively lowly positions, to slioav that there was no introduction of caste. The only compulsory uniforms were khaki for the territorials and blue for the officers. Cocked hats were not in the system. He thought that where the danger to the scheme might be, if there was a danger, was that the Minister was an officer, and had been steeped for many years in miliary office. He suggested that the civilian element of the general community would be better assisted if the hon. gentleman were not Minister of Defence. He advised the exchanging of the portfolios of Minister of Railways, and Minister of Defence.

Mr Witty moved a reduction of the vote for the Director of Accounts by £l, a 8 an indication that the present oath was wrong and illegal. The House adjourned at 6 and resumed at 7.30. The debate on the Defence Estimates was continued by Mr Lee, who said that he held that if an efficient service was required they had to pay for it. Mr Witty said that he did nob wish to force his amendment, and if the Minister would give an assurance that no more would he asked to take the present form of oath he would be

satisfied. He thought that if the I Minister had not been a military man he would have used more tact in this

j matter. Mr Allen said that he could not now declare the oath to lie illegal, else what would become of all those who had taken it:-' He was quite prepared to see that the oath that is administered in future is the one in the Act. Mr Witty then withdrew his amendment. Mr Isitt moved a reduction of the vote by £l, as an indication that Territorial officers should not wear fulldress uniforms. Air Forbes advocated the elimination of gold lace and swagger from the forces. The Minister having explained that he did not favour showy uniforms, but did not wish to interfere with those now in the possession of old soldiers, Mr isitt withdrew his amendment. Mr Payne said that he had a list signed by fifteen thousand people in and around Auckland protesting against compulsory training. Mr Payne's statement led to a long discussion, during which Mr Myers said that the people did not know what they were signing, and Mr Wilford challenged Mr Payne to move an ■amendment, when the country would sec where the House steed on the subject. Replying to Mr Russell, the Minister said the increase of sergeant-maj-ors by 82 had been made because they, were required for the efficient working of tho scheme. Mr Tsitt moved a reduction of the vote as an indication that anyone may put forward a conscientious objection to military training. Mr Allen said that the Act already made such provision, but if they gave into conscientious objections how many consciences would be suddenly developed. Mr Payne declared that Labour was going to make this a burning question at the next general election. Mr Vcitch emphatically protested against the idea that Labour had so little regard for the country that it was not prepared to fight for it. Mr Isitt's amendment was lost by 60 to 5.

Tha Estimates, Wellington, September 14. After midnight the Estimates were further considered. Mr Isitt moved a further reduction of the Vote as an indication that military courts should be abolished in times of peace. On receiving an assurance of the Minister that the matter would be considered in the Defence Bill, he withdrew the amendment. The Minister proposed to keep tie Territorial forces up to 30,000, and to post the surplus to rifle clubs. The total vote was passed without amendment. The Customs, Marine, and Harbours and Inspection of Machinery vote totalled £132,230, and passed without al--teration. The Department of Labour vote of £26,608 was next passed without one word of discussion.

Progress was reported at 1.10, and the House rose.