THE ELECTRIC LIGHT.

Stratford Evening Post, Volume XXXII, Issue 45, 17 February 1912, Page 5

THE ELECTRIC LIGHT.

STATEMENT OF THE POSITION BY' THE MAYOR. COUNTER-DEMONSTRATION BY OR. MORI SON. MAYOR CONDEMNS COWARDLY attacks. CR. MORISON WANTS TO VALUE THE PROPERTY HBISELi'. NUMEROUS LIVELY PASSAGES. t., There was a good attendance at the meeting convened by the Mayoi last nignt to d.scnss the proposal to pmcnase the goodwill, interests andl plant of the Stratford Electrical Supply fitter, .ho Wj said that Mr. Masters was there that night, not in Ins capacity as Mayor, but as a business man to discuss this proposal in a businesslike way. ApThe Mayor, who was greeted with applause, said he was sorry to see so few there. He looked on the mattei as one of the most important questions that had ever been put betoie the ratepayers of this town. As the chairman had said, he had come as a business man to discuss the proposal in a businesslike way. He was not go-, ing to discuss it from a technical standpoint. He knew just as much about the matter from that aspect, as the gentlemen who had been writing to the papers recently. His duty Had been to find out whether this concern was worth the price asked by tfie company. He was there to find out, whether it was for the benefit of the ratepayers of this town. He did mo care whether they took it or not. One of the great Stratford writers had said that it would be better for tlio people of Stratford if this thing had been settled without the interference of Mr. Masters. He would leave Ins , audience,to* judge that. For six years they had worried over the electr.c light question. At the last mayoral election it was one of the principal planks of his platform. He promised that he would bring the matter about. It was at that stage now—they could say whether they wanted it or not. (Applause.; He had carried out his ' promise. The Attendance. “I am awfully sorry to see,” continued the Mayor, ‘‘that the ratepayers are not taking more interest m this thing, because I can assure them that it is an important matter. There are 0110 Or two little knobs I want to square off. As you are aware, there are three or, four gentlemen in this town who have been writing pretty freely to the papers. They have had a fine game of football, but a return match is to ,be ;played ,to-night. (Applause.) They have spoken pretty freely, and said what they thought of me —they should not complain if I tell them what I. ‘think of ■ them. < ■ They say that I have entered,into an agreement—now, I want you to take notice of this—they say.l have entered into an agreement with a director of the Electrical Supply Company that h'e shall purchaser ‘ail -The shares he can possibly get u ;hold ,pf, y ,and when the play is over," I am“ to' divide the prdlits. Now, isn’t that- ’a nice thing' to say about a man? That was spoken to a friend of mine. My friend listened till he. had done, and then said that Mr. Masters was a friend of his, and that he would tell him. The scoundrel skid: “No; ho. Don’t tell him.” He blackened a mail’s character and then said “No, no; don’t tell him.” I hope that gentleman is in the hall tonight, and will get up and confirm that statement. If he' is a coward lie will not. (Applause;) 1 -Continuing, Mr. Masters said r. that I before ; God and man, he had ,never had any. personal interest in the question. If tno company sold out to-morrow for ten hundred ■ thousand ! pounds itwould not put one farthing- of. money in his pocket.- (Applausq,) f - ‘-‘More Ulght.” Referring to -a- correspondent who wrote under, nom-de-pliime of “More Light,” Mr. Masters said that he wanted a little more light, or he would not have rushed into print as Tie had done. He accused him (the Mayor) of bringing down a report unknown to the committee, and said he had no right to think for the ratepayers. Mr.■ Sangster, had said he knew nothing about the report. This was quite correct, but it was not a committee’s report at all, and he (the speaker) had had nothing at all to do with' it. He was going to give them -that report that night. If Mr. Sangster was in the Hall, he would confirm his statement that he had never brought down a report in any shape which had not been fully discussed by the committee, and unanimously carried and recommended to the Council. Mr. Sangster: That is quite right, your Worship. “This,” the speaker went on to say, “is the report 1 was accused of bringing down to the Council. Then he sa.d I had no right to think for the ratepayers. You don’t want mo at all, if you don’t want me to think. The ratepayers can think for themselves, but you wanted every councillor, and myself included, to think for you, and to think before they come to the Council table. As long as I am on the Council I will make it my business to think for the ratepayers of this town. (Applause.) When I can no longer do that I will leave , the Council.” (More applause.) “Ratepayer.” “Ratepayer” says I am prepared .to say anything to put the burden of an out-of-date plant upon the ratepayers, and challenges me to prove that it would pay interest on a further loan of £15,000. Ho says I will tell a lie—it amounts to that—as well * as anything else. Well, now, regarding this £15,000, that is a statement I made at, a supper that was given by the Fire Brigade boys. My words were these: ! said I thought it would pay interest on a further loan of from twelve to fifteen thousand pounds. Later on in the evening I propose to show “Ratepayer” whether it will or not.” Continuing, Mr. Masters said that “Ratepayer” could place this statement that ho would-make in a tin and then seal it up.. After two vqars he could open it up, and if time nad (p)U SUAV q.U3UI3(p!}S SIIJ pOAO.Id correct, then he Mr. Masters) would give £2O to the funds of the Stratford Band. (Applause.) * Another Gentleman? Mr. Masters went on to say that another anonymous gentleman had said that the Mayor and Councillor King were anxious to saddle the concern on the ratepayers—“saddle” was a nasty word—and that it would have been much better if the thing had been carried out without the assistance of Mr. Masters. Ho was not there to defend Mr. King or to take bis part in any way; Mr. King was quite capable of taking care of himself, if ho was given an opportunity. However, lie would say this: Ten months had passed since he (the speaker) had .taken this thing in hand in earnest, and Mr. King had never ‘spoken or voted on the question at the Council table, on any one occa-

sion during that ten months. He would tell them this: That they could not get a better Councillor than Councillor King, and they should not make any mistake about that He served ratepayers well foi .a te™ ni ,, nv vears and on four occasions had been elected Mayor. At the last deelion this »as. » Mr. “tte- , ‘•lnn-nimr Question —(langhtei) m fore he was elected by a large majority They had confidence in Mi. King 1 Sen Had they lost that confidence | now? There was notan bones'teio. straighter man in this town. t 1 plause.) Ncm-de-Plumes. With regard to the question of writing letters to the papers under nomd>“plumes, Mr. Masters said he would personally write under a nom-de-nhime but when a man attacked an other* man’s character nothing could testify the resort to anonymity. If he hi any reason for BaymjE ‘ wM he did let him say it openly. (Applau,. r .) “I respect any man that has an OP 1 ioVof l.i= own; I admire the. man w o has the courage of bis opinions. Bt the man who shelters behind that mean subterfuge, is nothing worse than a sand-bagger. They have mis erably failed. 1 say this because it is the sort of thing that prevents youi best men from coming forward and seeking election to public positions. These are the men who retard pi 0gress. These are the men 'vhositat home and hatch scandals. They use the nubile press as then; medium because it costs them nothing, it is cowardly; it is hellish. To sit down and blacken a man’s character in the ives of the public. I ask you to say whether anything, I have done in connection with this question has not been done in an honourable way. 1 ask you to give me credit for honesty cf purpose in this matter. (Applause.) That Report.

Mr Masters then produced the original report that had been brought down and about which so much had been said. Some were very anxious to ret the report published. they made a very big noise about it flic Councillors, however, decided that it was detrimental to the interests ol the ratepayers of the town to publish that report. That sliould be a sufficient answer to any criticism. Were thev going to say that men like Councillors McAllister, Boon, Lawr.on, Saftgster, and Ward, were going to descend to underhand work? these wore the men who decided that thoie was no use in publishing that report. Ho asked which report they would care to hear—the old one which was incorrect or the later one which was correct? Mr. 'Masters explained that why the former report was incorrect was because the goodwill had been set down before all the data concerning profits and expenditure had been ascertained. The report was misleading right through. There were not many bigger property -owners in Stratford than himself. “If it’s good .for you,; it’s good for ano. I want you to think for yourselves, and take the matter home’, and think well over it. Then; if' it’s tebt good enough, let if alone.”u-ii I ; ' '' ' ' r ,, .-My. Masters 1 then read the following report 1 ‘ S For the purpose of acquiring the Stratford : • Electric Light Company’s undertaldli g, ! 1 and for acquirement and oqujpmeqt of new plant, the. Council requires a sum 1 of £14,000. This money will be allocated as follows:

Purchase of goodwill £4OOO Present plant of company ... 5389 a acre (freehold, and buildings .185 Water rights on south side of r. river * •' ... ... ... 600

” ' . £9824 Purchase of stock on order and ■ ■ to arrive £464 Installation of new plant in full working order ■ . ... 3600 Contingencies M ’... '... 1 ; .... '• 112 I ; : ' £14,000 The cost of. providing interest and sinking fund on this loan is £735. This amount will be a charge against the profits of , the electric light department should the ratepayers decide in favour of taking the concern over. According to the company’s balance sheet to March 31st, 1911, the receipts and expenditure show as follows : Receipts ... ... ... £2605 Expenditure 1562 Credit balance ... ...£lo'3 Included in the expenditure are the following items, which would be saved by the Council:— Bank interest £196 Income tax 42 Salaries (secretary) 100 £338 Add £338 to £1043, and the credit balance will be £1381; deduct cost per annum of loan £735 and the Council would have a clear profit of £646. This profit is earned with the present plant. But the £14,000 proposed to be borrowed will instal new plant that will enable the Council to run a day load. In order to satisfy ourselves that a day load would be availed of we obtained a list of those business men likely to instal motors, and we found that at least 120 horse-power will be required as soon as current can be supplied. In addition to motors it is anticipated that the use of radiators, irons, etc., will help to increase the revenue. The revenue of the works from the above source we set down approximately at £7OO, less additional working expenses, £250, giving an increase profit of £450. This does nte. include a motor for the Stratford Dairy Company, to whom we understand the company have made an offer. Taking last year’s figures.as a bas’s of calculation, we consider that with the new plant installed, the revenue will equal £3305, made up as rol--1 ows £ Present works ... ... ... 2605 Addition from new plant ... 700 £3305 We estimate the expenditure at 1474 Leaving a balance of receipts over expenditure of ... 1831 Deduct interest and sinking fund 735 And the works will give a profit 1096 It must be borne in mind that, these figures include the amount paid by the Borough to the company for light, an amount equal at present to £3OO per annum. The requirements of the authorities only call for a statement of receipts and expenditure from the Council, so no provision lias been made in the above figures for depreciation. However, to make provision for the replacement of plant, promises, etc., we propose for the purpose of a strict profit and loss account, to deduct the sum of £4OO from the above figures. Tin’s, with the £3OO paid by the Borough for light, would equal £7OO. leaving a net profit to the Borough of £396 in cash, a saving in light of £3OO, a sinking fund of £7O, or equal at the present time to a cash profit of £760 per annum. To place the figures plainly before you, wo anticipate that for the

£14,000 invested by the Borough in the purchase of the Electric Light Company’s undertaking, we shall earn the first year, after paying interest on our capital and providing £4OO tor replacement purposes, as follows: Profit £3^j sinkinß tad ;;; 300 Saving in light

Total profits _ •** Or a net return on the capital of 5i per cent. This may be considered a very 0 fair return, but with the expansion of the town and ihe natmal increases in business that will folio a, the profits on the concern will oe ° o ™® larger. The figures quoted to ( you aio worked on a minimum scale. “Now, ladies and gentlemen, continued the Mayor, “as security fm this we shall have to strike a rate of lid in the £. We expected to bon on this money from the Government’ but we found that they would not lend mofiey for these purposes. Lon.£nuentlv we did not get it foi the L per cent., which we expected to pay. \\r e have found snee, however, that it would have cost us 5i per cent., which would provide for a smkmg fund. Wo are borrowing now bom a private company at 4* per cent. So you will see that there is not a veiy breot difference in borrowing tins way. The rate will be Ud on the unimproved value of your properties. 1 may say this—though some of you will say it is an old yarn—that this ia e will never be collected. Now, objection has been. raised, I. know, by a p-ood many to the Council purchasing what .thev term a worn-out weir and water-race. I object to that too, and certainly should have objected to it, especially seeing that the lease runs out in 1916. There is no value m the th’ng But we have not to pay for that at all I will give you first the company’s valuation for the lot, and then the award figures. Ihe company’s valuation is as follow's: — Weir and water race ... £65 15 5 Machinery 313 J 0 0 Buildings |b '

Total .. ... ...3024 4 0 Less depreciation ... 288 11

£2735 12 4

For the whole of this the award was £IO3B 14s. That is what we qre paying for it. We are not going to bo had very much ever tl \?St. Two years ao-o this property was under offer to the ratepayers for £IO,OOO. Since that the company have erected lines to the value cf £SOO and they have also purchased a freehold property at a value of £lB5, and water rights m perpetuity for £3OO, making total additions £935. This would bring the total of the original offer up to £10,985. Yet we are getting it under the award for £9824.” Tho Goodwill. 1

Referring to the exception taken to the price of: the goodwill, Mr. Masters put the case from a purely business standpoint, and took a private business for- his example. A man has a business for sale. You have his price, and he gives you particulars of his receipts and expenditure. Can you make a Satisfactory profit after paying interest cn your goodwill? If it pays you to buy it, well then, take it. The only way you can get at the value of this goodwill is; to ascertain the profits you can make in the concern. (Applause.) „S, Municipal Control.

“In my opinion atenuinlclpal corporation should own.,and control its own !ghtiing, and ray reasons are these: First, because you cannot name a municipal lighting concern that is not paying. Secondly, because this borough is contributing a ninth of the revenue received by the company.. Third, because .the Borough 'iio-hdhg bill is'’at present £3OO, o - equal to interest on £6000.. Fourth, because the .demand for street lights is so great, that a. large number of additional lights will have to be elected, each lamp costing the Borough £5 per annum. Fifth, because the lighting bill inside the space of tuo years will reach the sun: or £6OO, which will pay interest on over £IO,OOO. Sixth, because you already had to pay a rate of £d for lighting. Seventh, because every ratepayer, irrespective of where he lives, in t.ie Borough, has a right to have the streets in his locality lighted. Eighth, because we could light any part of the Borough without any additional expenditure.” Witli regard to the lighting bill, the Mayor said that one' of the greatest opponents of this scheme had told him in conversation that he considered that in three years irom now the lighting would cost them £6OO. Then there was -te in the £ that the ratepayers were paying ror lighting. \Tiiey could make c'Uite sure mat people were not going to be satisfied with tne present lighting arrangements. They were paying the rate, and they would have the light. If they took the concern over on the 31st of March that tel would be struck off, and if they did not take it over, twelve months from now they would bo paying, not a i d, but a Id. I hat was tne position, and they must consider it. They knew very well that they could not afford to pay £6OO tor limiting their Borough. It would cripple the town to do it. Imitiieimore ,they would bo in this position, :f they adopted the scheme, that they would be .able to light any part of the town without any additional expense, except the cost of the lamp. Continuing, the speaker said that they had here a net profit of £7OO, which would provide interest on a loan of £14,000. This sum could be spent in borough improvements. Or, on the other hand, it could be used tor reducing the rates, and would accomplish a reduct.on of £1 in every £6 they were paying now. “I ask you if this is not a good business proposition ? If you think it is a very good business proposition, very well, vote for it. .1 put it to you in this way: Is there any btisiness man in this audience who, if he had the opportunity qt borrowing £14,000 on the same conditions as wo are borrowing it—-for 46 years at 4J per cent., of making enough out of tho concern to pay the interest and a sinking fund of i per cent., was able to place £7OO jn his pocket every year—would he take it or not. The profits would he more than this, because the place was going ahead. He would take it; there was not a man there who would refuse it. If it was good for him ,it was good for tho Borough.” (Applause.) “I feel quite sure,” Mr. Masters went on to say, “that the income from this concern would amount to even one thousand pounds every year. J see nothing to prevent it. I heard a gentleman say some little time ago, ‘Lot it rip. And we’ll get it in time at our own price.’ 1 am not looking forward for eight years to get something for nothing. However, we will assume that wo do let it rip. We will see how it pans out. People belonging to this company have a right to run their lines up to tho very last day or December 13, 1919. Well, now, you can’t put a single polo in these streets until they have shifted theirs away, if yon allow them to run it to the very last day, you will have your town in darkness. They will have the whip hand of yon. Von can get everything ready, but you can’t touch the street until their polos arc gone.

How much is it going to cost you to erect these lines, and make your connections. They w!l dictate lo you what you shall pay them for the poles. Furthermore, they are nor going to shift out of time so easily.. Litigation will come, ami that will mean expense. They arc not going to walk out—they will have to be driven out Don’t for a moment lean on that staff, for it’s a rotten one, and vou will make a big mistake over it. The Plant. “It has been said that the valuators when they were here condemned tins plant as being obsolete and practically useless. Weil, of course, we are only paying an obsolete price Mr. Masters quoted from the valuators report as follows . .. ••We think it right to point out that the company’s two generating machines which are now ten years and eleven years old respectively cannot tie considered as unsuitable foi flutter service. They are in good condition, and as a careful inspection by us snowed, have been wc.. caiea foi. ineir efficiency in water consumption may not be quite equal to that obtained from those of recent design, but me difference in this respect is by no means sufficient to depreciate their ■value to any large extent. With, a continuance of tne same degree or care, we consider that they are good lor a useful life of several years, alThought it may possibly prove advisaide to discard them while servicoaoie, owing to the growth of the business demanding a large and more concentrated generating plant. , , lue plant was good for many- years.r Seeing that the company were now putting in a plant that would supply more man double the present power, it would be many years before they Mould require a new plant, it ~haa also oaeii said that the new plant to arrive will not do its ivoi'k, and might not suit the corporation. He read the following letter frprn Mr. mitpherd: “in reply to your enquiry re Deissol oil engines lor lighting plants, 1 beg to say that in my Opinion mis type ox engine is eminently bnese engines operate very satisiactorily, amt are uuilt up to BUU h.p., and perhaps larger. Large numbers are in use in various parts of the world on both lighting and tramway loads, and in Dunedin the Drainage Board have nad excellent results from two 120 h.p. engines driving centnuigal pumps, in regard to the plant ordered by the Stratford Electrical to apply Company, and about to be taken over oy your Council, I feel sure, from the whole-hearted interest of tne company’s engineer to the requirements of the undertaking, tiiat ue has carefully considered the type rt engine best suited for local conditions, and lias acted accordingly.”; Another question was 'wJiutv they would do with the water-race, and it was a very reasonable one. The lease exp.red in 1916.: - Fii'St: of all/j-af they look this tiling over they would approach the Public Trustee, The laud was native reserve,' and tv : ©' ; would have to get that six acres that tin* company has separated from the'otherlease, and lease it through'''the Borough Council. If hnyoiic could’get itthe Borough could get it. Failing that they would have to deal with the next man who took the lease. If'they'could not come to tends ; with- 'him, they could fall back'’of?-the Public Works' Act. ' Ccnolusicn. In conclusion the Mayor said he wanted them to take this , matter seriously. This ' town belonged to them, and a large number, with their children, would live here all their lives. “Y T ou must,” he said, “consider well, and do what you think is in the best interests of your town. 1 don’t want yau to vote for it, because I ask you H j# you think the profits- of this concern’will warrant it, by all means vote for it. Bujrgbe sure you take the trouble to come blit and vote for it. I have,-done my best, and I want you to give me credit fbr honesty of purpose. (Applause.) Notwithstanding all that Jias been said in the papers, I assure you all I have no desire whatever to play you on in the interests of the Stratford Electrical Supply Company.” (Applause.) Questions. Mr. J. Lilley asked the cost of working a steam engine as against the use of water power. The Mayor replied that- it was hardly a question for him to answerlie was not an engineer. He held that no one could have a cheaper power than water, and that they should use the water power, but when the demand increases beyond the capabilities of the water, then they should take into consideration the question of either steam or oil engines. (Applause.) Mr. H. Wilson asked for figures showing the net income of the Electrical Supply Company for last year. The Town Clerk read extracts from the Company’s balance-sheet, making tfie sum to be something over £SOO. Mr Wilson then proceeded to ask another question. He said that in any business it was usual to reckon the profits for a good number of years to be used un for goodwill. What lie wanted to know was , in how many years the Council expected to wipe off that £4OOO. The Mayor: Now I understand you. You want “to know how many five hundred pounds it would take to make £4OOO. That is what you are asking me. (Laughter.) A Voice: That’s one for you, Mr Wilson. Mr Wilson: Oh, I’m not finished yet. Mr Wilson continued that the Company had 7J,- years to run out. Take the amount that should have been written off each year, and interest which had to be paid, he calculated that the electrical light people had made a profit of somewhere between £2OO or £3oo—that was all. (Applause.) “It means this,” replied Mr Masters, “you want to know how much we are going to make over and above what we pay for the goodwill. We are not making such a good deal, but do you think for one moment that that is the only advantage. Toil liui have a hundred lights in the Borough for every one that you have now.” Mr R. McK. Morison rose to his feet, and moved “That in the opinion of this meeting it was not desirable that the Council should take over the interests of the Electrical Supply Company.” If they allowed him to speak to that ho would give them his reasons. A Voice: Get up on the platform. The Chairman remarked that Mr Morison had no right to take the Hall. Cr. Morison: “It’s a meeting of ratepayers. .1 contend that every ratepayer lias a right to speak.” The Chairman: “This meeting was called to hear Mr Masters. .1 think it is only fair to the good sense of the people here that they should he satisfied wifh Mr Masters’ speech, and not have another inflicted on them. (Loud applause.) Mr Morison’s motion is quite in order.” A!r Morison claimed lie had a right to speak. The ratepayers were paying for the use of the hall. “I contend that I have a perfect right to go on. Mr Masters has tried and laboured very much to try ana convince you that 1 this is a first-rate scheme. While J give him credit for being honest in his convictions, I do not

think that the scheme is a bargain at all.’ The Mayor rose and commenced to speak, with Mr Moiison still standing. The Chairman then amu tnat Mr Masters had risen to a point of order, and that Mr Morison as an experienced chairman knew it was his place to sit down, “I say this, ladies and gentlemen, said the Haver, “I don’t think, notwithstanding that this is a ratepayers meeting, that any man has any right to stand in the body of the Hall and make a long speech. If he wants to speak he will have to come up here. If you come up here, I will go down anci take your place. Come on. ’ (Applause.) . Voice: Better elect another chairman. Mr McAllister said that if Mr Morison said what he did not agree with, he would rule him out of order. Mr Dingle proposed that Mr Wilson take the chair. “I have come here to-night for information,” he remarked. “I have got the information on one side. Mr Morison is here to .give us the information on the other side.” Mr Morison, who was now on the platform, said, with a broad smile on •iis face, that he did not wish to cause any trouble.. He did not wish to deal in an uiigeiitlcnianly manner towards Mr Masters. If they could not do the thing in a fair-spirited manner, they would leave it alone. (Applause.) He asked that Mr McAllister should resume the chair. Mr McAllister: This is at Mr Morisnu’s request. I don’t wish to do so otherwise. tii jiurison was leaning over the table, and tne Mayor remarked amid laughter : “Bo sure and not read my papers.” Mr Morison said he would hot attempt to discuss figures in detail. There were some matters, however, that were quite apparent. “For instance, Mr Masters read here distinctly (Mr Sid Ward—‘Speak up.’ ”) that they .would make a saving of £i(JU a year in secretary’s expenses?’!, Is the Borough Council going to do the work for nothing?” That was a fair sample, and showed how Mr Masters had laboured to make the best of the scheme. He believed that it would be a' deal more in the interest of Stratford not to touch it.

A Voice: Get more light! Mr Morison: “Yes, tve do need more light, but we'll have to pay for it Let us wait.” Mr Morison then went on to refer to the fact that tjie Budget included large sums tor tin exploration of the water power of the nonunion. “We know that the Premier has stated just recently that ho expects to put eiecmc ligm m evu, home m New Zealand.” (.Loud lauguter.) Why be in a hurry?” A Voice: Yes, but it’s not coming.

Mr Morison (reterrmg again to uie scheme); “I would luce to be convinced, but I would idee to see the man to do it.” (Applause.) it has oeeu stated, the speaker continued. tnat tne lue or an electrical piunt is nfteem years, and here they w;ere buying a plant that was twqthirds worn out. >

, iine Mayor: What are 1 you paying for-i iR? • _ t Mr Morison, continuing,: said that the arbitrators had said tne plant was ousofete,/ Furthermore, tney would haye .to add considerably to mac piano, if £ they were wise they would leave it alone. He did’ not expect to ue called on to make a speecu troni tne platform —it was the first time that ue nad that pleasure. He never expected to get up mere, but tdiey were tfie reasons why -lie believed it would be better to leave it alone. Tne Company claimed tnat they were doing very well. Mors power to them. They deserved to do well, and ne hoped tney would do well. He had uotiiiug to say against.>tfiat. Wny in the name oft fortune were they going to paj LiO,(JUU when the goodwill had disappeared. i T o-day. tney were, not getting it at its worth. Tne; Mayor: “1 have a right to ask a question.” Mr Masters, referring to Mr Mor.sou’s objection to ins (tne speaker's) statement regarding the LiUU clerical expenses, asked if Mr Morison was aware wnat that £IOU was paid for, and said that it was mainly for the lure or an office, and there was little'' book work attached to it. Mr. Masters then went on to refer to a remark made by Or. Monson that “ he thought it would be one of the best tilings for tho ratepayers to take tins concern over." 'Applause.) Mr. Morison: “I am very glad of this opportunity. I am in favour u taking it over to-morrow. (Applause.) 1 believe that it would be a very goou thing to take it over, hut not on these terms. I want to value it ror myself. (Laughter.) 1 want to take u over, but not unless I am satisfied with the value.” (Applause.) A voice: “Come down out of tha t. You’re wasting the ratepayers' time.” Mr. W. H. H. Young seconded tne resolution.

The Mayor: “I will get up again if you are finished.’. Mr. Morison: “Oh, no; I’m notfinished yet.”-’ Tlio Mayor and Mr. Morison then took the platform together. In speaking to tno motion, Mr. HeaJy said that tne better way was to defer the motion until those Councillors who were opposed to the •scheme had had an opportunity of discussing the question at the Council table.

A voice : “Quite right.” (Applause.) The motion was men put and declared lost on tho voices. A vote of thanks to the chair concluded the meeting.