MR REID'S ADDRESS TO THE ELECTORS ON THE PUBLIC WORKS AND IMMIGRATION SCHEME.

Southland Times, Issue 1352, 27 December 1870, Page 1 (Supplement)

MR REID'S ADDRESS TO THE ELECTORS ON THE PUBLIC WORKS AND IMMIGRATION SCHEME.

In compliance with a requisition signed by 6*o persons, Mr Donald Reid, Provincial Secretary, addressed ah open air meeting from the Terrace of the . Provincial Counoil Buildings, on, Monday, in reference to the Immigration and Publio Works Act, passed during the last session of the General Assembly. Mr fi. S. Fish, jun., read the various advertisements in connection with the meeting, and he was afterwards elected to preside, and briefly addressed the meeting; iii order to secure Mr Reid a patient hearing/ Mr lleid, who waa received with applause, thanked the citizens for having afforded him that opportunity of explaining his views in regard to the Immigration and Publio Works Act. It was the more necessary that he should do so, inasmuch as certain rumours had been, andwere still being, circulated every evening in the city respecting the views which he and the other members of the Provincial Goverhment had held in respect to the carrying out of pnblic worka in Otago. He therefore'felt great satisfaction in being able to meet the citizens face to face, ahd to explain to them what were the vieWs of the Provincial Government regarding these matters. He listened •with very great pleasure the other evening to the Speech which was delivered by the Colonial Treasurer, Mr Yogel ; he listened to it wifch pleasure as a specimen of eloquence, inasmuch as it went to maintain the undoubted character which that gehtleman had acquired as a public speaker; but, whilst he was delighted that Mr Yogel should on the occasion referred to maintain that character, he must ©onf ess that he listened with disappointment to the arguments which he brought forward in eupport of this large scheme of the General Government, in order to show how the interests of this province and of the Middle Island generally were protected under it. The Colonial Treasurer had told the citizens that the scheme of the General Government, at the time it was brought before the Assembly, was hailed throughout the country as the means by which the resources of ■ the colony as well as the province were to be developed land its population increased. But there was no occasion for the Colonial Treasurer to tell the people that ; it was very well known that the Boheme was approved of. Seeing that there was an absence of a free circulation of money throughout the country, and that the time had arrived when it was necessary that public works should be proceeded with, the country was ripe for ifc, and it was only reasonable to suppose that the scheme would, at the first blush, be hailed with satisfaction. In fact, he had no hesitation in saying that he stated to certain gentlemen, that if certain conditions were complied with , he should be in favour of the scheme. But those conditions were not complied with. That was the fault which he had to find with the scheme. If the scheme, had been placed before the public in such a manner that population could be brought into the oountry with advantage, and if proper inducements had been held out to people to settle in the count ry when they arrived, then he would have been prepared to give his adhesion to the scheme. But he listened with considerable disappointment when the Colonial Treasurer told the citizens that the scheme had been approved by the people of the colony, and that any work done in the different provinces was to be made a provincial charge. He did not intend to cavil with the speech which was made by the Colonial Treasurer a few evenings ago ; the subject, in fact, was one of *oo much importance. He would divide it into three parts : First, the Colonial Treasurer endeavoured to shew that the scheme in its present shape was fair to the Middle Island, and particularly to Otago. The Colonial Treasurer Btated, as his second point, that the Clutha railway could be constructed at once under the scheme if the Provincial Counoil were favourable. In the third place, he told them that if not accepted in its present shape, or if any attempt was made to get it modified, any alterations which might be made would be in the way of making it more colonial, and more distasteful to the people of this province. In reply to those three points of the Colonial Treasurer he would endeavour to meet his arguments fairly. He would show that in its present Bhape the scheme was not fair to the Middle bland ; second, that it was not possible tbat the Clutha railway could be constructed at once, if at all, under tha scheme ; and thirdly, tbat the electors had the power to modify it ; aud if he succeeded in proving to them that the scheme required modification, no doubt they would take steps to see that it was modified in a manner which would meet their wishes. If the scheme had been so framed as to ensure an increase in the population permanently settled in the country, and that works only of a reproductive nature should be constructed, then he should regard it as the very best that could have been devised. He must make an apology to the meeting, inasmuch as thd manner in whioh he should deal with the subject would not be so interesting as that in which the Colonial Treasurer had handled it, and also because the subject «ras a dry one. He would not ask the Bleating to accept his own statements : ha wouid give them quotations which would prove what he was about io say. In the first place, the Colonial Treasurer dealt severely with the Provincial Council in regard to the resolutions passed by that body respecting the Immigration and PubUc Works Act. He wished to place before this meeting all the information which was in the possession of the Provincial Council and Executive when thafc resolution was passed. Two letters were received from the Colonial Secretary in regard to the Immigration and Public Works Act. One of those letters referred to the survey of a line of railway between Tokomairiro and Tuapeka, and also for the construction of water works on the goldfields. The second letter had reference to the construction of a line of railway from Dunedin to the Clutha, and also the contract to include a line from Invercargill to the Mataura. Be would read these letters. The first letteivread as follows : — " Colonial Secretary's Office, Wellington, llth November, 1870; Sir— l have the honour to forward to your Honour copieß of a letter, and of the resolutions enclosed therein, from a committee appointed at a public meeting of the inhabitants of Tuapeka, relative to the survey of a line of railway from Tokomairiro to Lawrence, and to the supply of water for auriferous lands in the district. I refer the question

of the proposed line of railway to your Honour, under the sixth' section of the ' Public Worka and Immigration Act, 1870,' with a view to ascertaining the opinion of yourself and the Provincial Council of O ago oh the points referred to in that section, for the purpose therein mentioned. I shall oe prepared, if your Honour wishes it, to give directions for the immediate survey of the proposed line. With respect to. the proposed works for supplying water to any goldfield, before the Governor can entertain any proposal of that kind it is necessary, under the twenty-sixth section of the said Act, that your Honour and the Provincial Council should first request His Excellency to construct suoh works. Should your Honour wish it, the Governor will be advised to cause, under the twentyseventh section of the Act, the requisite enquiries and surveys to be made for the purpose of ascertaining what water- works should be constructed, and the mode of construction thereof.— l have, &c, W. Gisbobne." He might inform the meeting that the survey of the line from Tokomairiio to Tuapeka was in couise of completion by the Provincial Government before this letter was received, and that a vote had been taken from the Provincial Council to make enquiry as to the water supply which might be required upon the goldfields. The following is the second letter to which he referred : — " Colonial Secretary's Office, Wellington, 12th November, 1870. Sir— I have the honour to enclose copies of correspondence noted in the margin — [Telegram. — Messrs Peyman and Abbott to Hon. Wm. Fox, 22nd October, 1870. Under Secretary to Messrs Peyman and Abbott, 29th October, 1870 ; Messrs Peyman and Abbott to Minister of Public Works, Ist November, 1870.]— relative to a . proposal from Messrs' Peyman and Abbott for the construction of a railway from Dunedin to the Clutha, the contract to include the construction of a railway from [nvercargill to Mataura. I shaU feel obliged if your Honour would furnish me *with the views of the Provincial Government of Otago on this proposal. The Government- do not think it would be expedient, under the existing circumstances, to entertain any proposal for the construction of the railway from Dunedin to Clutha, except on the principle of a guarantee, and they are advised that the Government are not authorised by law to enter into any absolute contract for the construction of a railway from InvercargiU to Mataura.— l have, <&c*, W. Gisborne. His Honour the Superintendent, Ofcago." Now the Provincial Government were aware that it was impossible to get the Clutha railway constructed on a guarantee of L 5900 per mile, and the offer was only made contingent on the line from the Mataura and Invercar- \ gill being included in the contract at the same price per mile. That was all the information which the Provincial Government had in its possession at the time the resolution which had been referred to was passed by the Provincial Council. The Provincial Government were aware that it was impossible that the Oiu ha railway could be constructed on a guarantee or on a cash payment of LSOOO per mile, and the General Government had limited itself to a sum not exceeding that amount under the Act passed by the Assembly. He would read the resolution passed by the Provincial Council to the meeting, and which, he believed, would meet with the approval of every person present. It read as follows : — " That this Council having had under its consideration the communications from the Hon. the Colonial Secretary, eucloaed in His Honour's Message No. 2, is oT opinion that though it is desirable that works having for their object the development of the goldfields, and the resources of the province generally, should be undertaken without undue delay ; yet that it iB inexpedient for this Council to niake any recommendation with the view to the ini- | tiation of any works under the * Immigration and Public Works Act, 1870/ until the whole policy of that Act has been considered by the various constituencies throughout the province, and either confirmed by a new Parliament or modified in such a way as will leave' the Middle Island free to deal with its own finances for the promotion of public works and immigration ; and this Council considers the only practicable way to arrive at suoh a desirable result is by a financial separation of the two Islands." The resolution said that the electors Bhould have an opportunity of expressing their opinion upon this large scheme before it was put into force. Had they sufficient information, after the speech which had been made by the Colonial Treasurer, to enable them to say that they were prepared to launch into the scheme with the provision which the Colonial Treasurer had made for carrying out public works in the Middle Mand /—(Cries of "Yes" and "No.") He did not believe that the meeting was prepared to do tb at, and before he had concluded his remarks he believed he would be able to shew satisfactorily that justice would not be done to the Middle Island by the scheme as now framed. The Colonial Treasurer referred to the resolution in these words :-— "When the Government heard by telegram of that most extraordinary resolution being passed by the Provincial Council, it was determined that some member should visit Otago with the view of making explanations to the Provincial Government which might remove the misapprehension which seemed to have arisen, and it is the object of my visit to give effect to those measures in a place in which, it appears to me, they should more than in any other have been eagerly welcomed." Now, what the Colonial Treasurer had stated was really not the fact. The Provincial Council had not decided not to take advantage of the scheme, but they decided that it should be put in proper shape before they took any action under it, and that the people of this province should have an opportunity of Baying whether it was in such a shape tbat they could approve of it. The Colonial Treasurer then went on to say at the meeting : — " I have informed the Superintendent that the Government are fully prepared at once to enter into a contract ; but I must tell you that although the Superiutendent himself is inclined to have the works carried out, his opinions are not shared by the Executive and Provincial Council." He did not know whether it would be believed by the meeting, but that was the first time that he had heard the statement. He could not understand how the Trea- ! Burer could say that the Provincial Go- 1 vernment were not agreeable to have

these works carried on. The first time he (Mr Reid) heard the statement was at the meeting held at the Princess Theatre, and afterwards repeated at the meeting subsequently held at that place. He thought he had said quite sufficient to justify the action taken by the Provincial. Council on the occasion of passing the resolution above referred to. The Provincial Council were placed in a difficult position. They had an Act placed before them, the original idea of which they approved of —namely, that of borrowing money for the construction of publio works which were required, and whioh would hold out a reasonable prospect of being reproductive ; but when carried out as it was in this Aot, they could not give it their adhesion. They had before them the fact that there was to be immediately a general election for the Provincial Council and General Assembly, and they were satisfied that nothing could be lost to the province by ' the short delay that would take place, inasmuch aa che only thin? offered to them was that surveys should be made and enquiries instituted. The surveys were already in course of completion, and power had been taken to institute enquiries as to the supply of water to the goldfields. Steps had also -been taken to get this information. He would now proceed to show how this scheme, as it stood, would not deal fairly with the Middle Island. He would pass over the provision made in the 20th section of the Act by which lands might be accepted by the Governor as payment for works executed under the scheme. He might, however, say a good deal on that point. If there was any part of the colony where lands were likely to be acceptable as payment it was in the Middle Tsland. The contractors were not likely to take land in the North Island, except in a few localities, on acoount of the Native disturbances. There wasnowanotherpoint. The 22nd section provided tint the " Governor may declare confiscated lands to be Waste Lands of the Crown. Immi* gration and railway costs to be first charge on revenue from such lands." He looked upon that as a very dangerous provision, inasmuch aa we knew that native disturbances had been oreated mainly because of disputes respecting the land, and if dealt with as provided by this section, it might lead to still greater expenditure. He would, however, pass over this subject and simply deal with the amount which the Act authorised them to borrow and to give a guarantee upon. Ths Defence and Other Purposes Loan Act authorised the General Government to. borrow L 1,000,000 sterling ; under tha immigration and Public Works Act, they were authorised to borrow L 4,000,000, 000,000 sterling, making a total of L 5,000,000, to be expended thus : In the North Island, purchase of Provincial estate L 200.00 0: Defence and otherpurposes,L9oo,ooo; and here they first met with" the Provincial charges to which he would refer presently)—roads in the North island, L.400,000 ; railways, Middle Island, L 400.000, as a counterpoise to the vote of L 400,000 in the North Island. Now it struck him as a singular fact that the Colonial Treasurer, whilst addressing a public meeting at Auckland, addressed them in an apologetic manner for having granted this vote for railways in the Middle Island. The Colonial Treasurer said—" We carried our measure for making a permanent provision for Defence purposes, and also a proposal for the construction of roads in the North Island. To show how difficult ifc was to deal with the diverse interests concerned, we had, as a counterpoise, to give to the Middle island, in aid of its railway fund, an amount equal to that which we proposed should be expended on the North Island roads." The Colonial Treasurer felt it necessary to make an apology for having had to give so much to the Middle Island. Then there was a Provincial charge against Otago, and Southland, LIOO.OOO ; making a total, already apportioned, of L 2,000,000, of which L 1,500,000 was specially for the North Island, as against L 500,000 for the Middle Island. There was L 3.000.000 of the loan intended to be appropriated asfollows: — Railways, L 1,600,000, 600, 000 ; immigration, L 1,000,000 ; waterworks, L 300.000 ; telegraphs, L 60,000 ; unapportioned, L 40.000. There was one fact connected with this matter whioh struck him as being singular. tfe referred to the miserable dole of L 300,000 for water works. Now, if there was one work which would be undertaken under this loan i which would be reproductive in an eminent degree, ifc was that of providing water supply for the goldfields in this island. What wouid be the present state of Otago, and he might also say of New Zealand, if the gold fields were to go d*>wn ? Why, taxation would become so enormously heavy on the few persons who would remain in the country that they, if they could, would also leave the colony ; because the population of the goldfields were the means of maintaining a great number of artisans and traders, who would be compelled to leave New Zealand if the goldfields failed. Therefore, that such a miserable dole as L 300.000 should have been set aside for thia important work was very much to be regretted. He would take the schedule of the Act — the Act which they were informed by the Colonial Treasurer, if they did not accept it as it stood, and attempted to make any alterations in it, would be made more distasteful to tha people here. He found that in the schedule of the Acfc provision was made for the construction of 395 miles of railway in the North Island as against 185 in the Middle Island. — (MrM'INDOE: No.) The member of the General Assembly who called out "No," did not know how many miles of railway were provided for — (Laughter.) He took some trouble to ascertain what the distance was, as it was not stated in the schedule to the Act. He got it measured by scale, and he - elieved that, taking the natural contour of the country, it might considerably exceed that amount. There was provision made in the three schedules of this Act for the construction of 395 miles of railway in the North Island, as against 185 in the Middle Island. He would enumerate the amounts which would require to be expended in each island if these railways were constructed. North Island, 395 miles, Ll, 930, 000; Defence, land purchase, and roads, Ll, 500,000 ; making a total for the North Island of L 3,430,000. In the Middle Island, 185 miles of railway, L 901,500 : special vote for railways, L 400,000 ; provincial charges, LIOO.OOO ; making a total of Ll,401,500 ; or an expenditure of nearly L 3 ih the North

Island to Ll in the Middle Island. He would compare the population and the tax bearing powers of the two Islands, and they would then see whether, even on the basis of population, a fair distribution of the propooßed loan would, under the scheme of the General Government, be made. He had taken his figures from the financial statement of the Colonial Treasurer. It was probable that the Colonial Treasurer had not been able to get strictly accurate returns, inasmuch aa it was two years since the census was taken, but no doubt an approximate estimate had been arrived at. In 1870, the population of the North Island was 97,800 • that of the Middle Island was 152,200 ; that of Otago and Southland being 70,000. The amount collected as customs revenue was L 4 Is 6d per head of the population, and it would be therefore seen that the North Island contributed to the general revenue L 398,755 Ib 2d, as against L 620,177 6s 4d contributed by the Middle Island, of which Otago contributed very nearly onethird of the whole. When the census was taken, in December 1868, the Middle Island contributed L 690,808, of a total revenue of L 979,052, contributed by both Islands, and of that amount Otago and Southland contributed L 300,249, and therefore it might be taken that Otago contributed one- third of the whole revenue. Taking the statements which he had referred to ifc would be seen that for every Ll paid to the revenue by the North Island, L 2 was paid by the Middle Island ; he therefore asked tiie meeting whether it was fair that whilst out of an expenditure of 14,831,300, there should be ex--1 pended in railways and Defence in the I North Island, L 3,430,000 j whilst the ; Middle Tsland was only to receive L 1,401,500— 0r a difference pf nearly L 3 to Ll. He would put it in another ught, namely, whilst the Middle Island would be paying interest, &c, on L 3 221,000, the North Island would only pay interest and Binking fund on L 1,610,000. In the , face of these facts, he asked the meeting whether they considered the Middle Island would be dealt with fairly under the scheme of the General Government j would the electors, in the face of suoh facts, be prepared to give their adhesion to it ; or would they determine to return to the General Assembly at the forthcoming elections, men who would pledge themselves to support it in its present shape, or wouid they not insist on returning men who, whatever the consequences to the Government, would see that the interests of the Middle Island were fairly considered. If they did not do so, they would have themselves to Mame for the consequences which might ensue. Again, he asked whether they considered that the North Island was in a position to pay its share of these burdens in the shape of loans. He had before him a message which was sent down to the Auckland Provincial Council by the Superintendent of that province, whioh would shew that even Auckland was not in a position to contribute its Bhare, although it was the most prosperous province in the North Island. The Superintendent was referring at the time to the General Government charges made in connection with the province, and he said : — " These charges are the General Government expenditure within the several provinces voted by the Assembly, and over which the province has no control. Looking to the existing absence of direct and efficient control over these charges, by either the General or the Provincial Government, and to the fact that they are being increased year by year without apparent adequate cause, it may be predicted that, making every allowance for the increase of population, these five years will not have expired ere the provincial charges will more than equal the capitation allowance, and the province will require to depend on its own internal resources for its provincial existence." Now, that was the position of the most prosperous province in the North Island. Let them refer to the condition of Wellington, Uawke'a Bay, and Taranaki. What position were they in to bear a share of the burdens ? It was the merest sophistry in the world to say that the amounts expended on railways or other worka in these provinces were to be charged provincially. It was useless to make such charges against provinces which had no revenues from which the oharges could be paid ; and the only result of such a course would be to entail unnecessary expenditure on the colony, to keep a Btaff of clerks keeping separate accounts of provincial charges which could not under any possibility be paid. They could not obtain money from provinces | which could not pay for their police, ! which could not maintain elementary schools, and which had not the means wherewith to pay their present liabilities. They could not get blood out of a stone. Notwithstanding this, they found that they had a staff of surveyors appointed to survey a line of railway from the town of Wellington over the Rimutaki Range, and to terminate at a desert of pumice in the interior. But in order to further Bhow that the scheme of the General Government would not deal fairly with the Middle Island, and also to Bhow what reason those Otago members had who wished to turn out of office the Provincial Government because they brought down the resolution to which he had referred, and because they would not support the scheme as it stood, he would read one or two more Bhort extracts. In the first place, he would read part of another message which was received by the Provincial Council of Auckland from the Superintendent. He was asking them to make certain proposals under the Immigration and Public ( Works Act. He (Mr Eeid) thought also that there was every reason why they should make such proposals — indeed, if he were settled in Aucki and he would advocate the adoption of a similar oourse. The ■ Superintendent of the Province' of Auckland Baid : — " And as the proportion of the expenditure for railways authorised should, for the Province of Auokland, in proportion to her population and importance, be at least Ll, 875, 000 and 620,000 acres of land, it would be well to keep these limits in view in any opinions which may be expressed. — (A Voice : Why not open your mouths ?) Very true ; bufc there was nobody to do it for them, and the Provincial Council, in passing that resolution, Baid that the electors should have an opportunity to elect representatives who would open their mouths on behalf of the people, who would take care that this Act was co altered as to do justice to their interests, and who would see ** that, in modifying the Aot, it was not

made more distasteful to the people of. this island. He would now read to the meeting the views expressed by one of their members, Mr Driver, when addressing his constituents regarding the scheme on a recent occasion. Mr Driver then said :— " Well, it all ended in the Government proposing to expend about a million sterling in connection with railways during the present year. The result was what he had anticipated, and hence his lukewarmneßs." The honourable gentleman was certainly not lukewarm in the Provincial Council. The honourable gentleman then went on to say : — " What did Otago get ? A guarantee for the construction of the Clutha Railway, if it would not cost over L 200,000, and a promise that the Waitaki Bridge should be constructed by half the cost, being paid by. Canterbury and half by Ofcago. That was all that was promised to Otago out of the whole loan. But who would pay fche interest on the debt ? Ofcago and Canterbury.—(Applause. ) That, from his point of view, evidenced a defect and. failure, in connection with the whole system." Those were the views expressed by Mr Driver when he addressed his constituents, and he certainly wished Mr Driver had carried those views into effect in the Provincial CounciL He had shown the meeting that if the only security to be given for these loans was the Customs revenue, the scheme was most unfair to the Middle Island. But when they bore in mind that were it not for the land revenue of the Middle Island the loan could not be secured at all, they would admit -that there was a still greater reason why in tiie Middle Island there should be a fair share of its expenditure. If land was to be given as security for the loan, then, he thought, the least the people here could expect was that the waste lands should be opened up by this scheme by means of good roads and railways being constructed through them. What was the position of the case 1 They found that in the North Island free grants of land had been made ; land was sold there at from 2s 6d to 20s per acre, or anything in fact that it would fetch. They in the North Island were to get railways and other important public works constructed at the expense of our land revenue, whilst we had been taxing ourselves by paying at the least 10s, and as high as L 5 per acre, which revenues were to be taken away from the province in an indirect way for the construction of roads and railways through private lands in the North, most of which had been purchased at a merely nominal price. In the speech of the Colonial Treasurer it was stated that large owners of land in the North Island approved of the proposition. He was really not at all surprised at that. He himself knew some gentlemen in the Assembly who— (Cries of " Name.") He did nofc wish to name.— (Renewed cries of "Name."). WeU, one of the gentlemen to whom he referred was Mr Farmer, a member for the North Island. That gentleman purchased a large estate in the North Island at a very low rate, about 2s 6d per acre he believed, and it was therefore most likely that thafc gentleman and others in a simUar position would . be disposed to support a scheme of this kind, by which it was intended to construct railways throughout the North Island at our expense ; bat he had yet to learn thai that should be done at the expense of the people of the Middle Island. If they in the North Island could not construct railways except at our expense, let them do without railways. It was aU very weU to talk of colonisation and progress. These were very fine sounding words when used by the Colonial Treasurer, but they could not afford that this progress should be made at their expense, whUetheir worka were to be comparatively neglected. There would be no one better pleased than he should be to see the colony making rapid strides in the march of colonisation and progress if, in making those strides, justice was dealt out to all alike. Bufc when it was evident that this was not the case— rthat, in fact, our progress would be restrained and retarded by our share being handed over to others —then the matter became a very different one indeed. The next attempt which would be made would probably be in the direction of passing uniform land laws. He cautioned the electors regarding that point, and suggested that they should test those gentlemen who came forward as candidates at the next elections regarding it. The next point upon which he would touch was one of very great importance, as it affected the whole basiß of the scheme. He aUuded to tbe provincial charges. That, in fact, was the great point made by the Colonial Treasurer in his speech. That gentleman referred to that section of the Act which provided that any works undertaken in any province might be made a provincial charge against that province. Now, to show the value of provincial charges, he (Mr Reid) would refer the meeting to what took place with regard to the Loan I Allocation Act. That Acfc, by which L 244.256 was charged against the four provinces of the North Island, and so charged after considerable expense had been incurred by the colony in appointing Commissioners to determine what the value of the works executed in these provinces were from a colonising point of view, in fact, as reproductive works, this was the only sum charged against the North Island ont of the L 3,000,000 loan, and an Aot was passed in 1867, called the Loan Allocation Repeal Act, relieving those provinces from these provincial charges, and making them a colonial charge, and the colony was made to bear the burden. Therefore he asked what safeguard the people had in regard to charges of that description. What he had stated was done by the General Government and the General Assembly, and very few of the members from Otago helped to resist that unjust action. He was also afraid that the same thing would occur again if those provinces which had no security to offer were aUowed to get works constructed at the cost of the colony. There were only four of the members of Otago who voted against that iniquitous act. — (Crieß of "Name.") He would name them. Their names were, Messrs Mervyn, Paterson, Reynolds, and Reid. At the time he mentioned, the interest and sinking fund was left as a charge against these provinces, and he found that during the last session the interest and sinking fund, instead of being paid off, had been taken up under the Defence Loan Act, and stiU retained as a provincial charge against these provinces. If the electors accepted the present scheme of the General Go vernment, the same thing would again take place. Thero was so charged

last session against Defence Loan L 73 ,000, in respect of Auckland, Taranaki, and Wellington. Hewouldnowrefertothecharacter of the worka proposed to be constructed in the North Island and the necessitfr* which there waa for them. He wdifld ask whether the raU way from Wellington to Taupo, and other similar workfc':woi|l4j ever pay working expenses If or it shoi^l§, be remembered that not only would those , raUways have to be constructed', but that when constructed they would also have to be maintained. In sanctioning their construction, the people would also ren-; der themselves liable to contribute ' towards tiieir maintenance. Before,: however, leaving the question of faroVihcial charged hV would refer the meeting. j to what had taken plate with; w^'lir those charges which had been tranaf erred 1t under this Act. Ib the second schedule ofthe Defence Loan Act : pro"viaion ( ,liad been made for the payment by the. pfo- - vince of Auckland to James Busby, £$q*, -. and for a payment to be made to the ; New Zealand Government under the 1 Loan Allocation Repeal Act, 1867, a sum- : not exceeding L 50,000, to be charged - against the Province of; Auckland. H«H would read what was said by one of , the, leading men of Auckland in regard to that matter. He said, when addressing" a meeting of tie electors—- - s The province had to pay this award. It , had been saddled upon the ( hmda of the pro-, . vince by an Aot of the Assembly, andi WP^ Could not get out of it. The effect of this ar-- * rangement was to saddle a money dqbfc upon the province, instead of a large land claim fr and I can tell you that it is much easier to \ get ont of a money debt than an enormous land debt of that sort. I think members «f " the Assembly will bear me in out in saying,; that it would be a very difficult thing to get an Act passed throngh the Assembly to repeal the Busby Land Claims Aot, though it might not be such a difficult matter to trans- - fer this money difficulty, in the -event of aom*, : * possible contingency, suoh as a change, oti A Ministers, when it might/be wiped ont by %■ stroke of, a Colonial Treasurer's \>on. " That Was the value of the system to which he had referred, viz. , of provincial charges, when they saw that a sum so charged onl"^ last session of the General Assembly was already proposed to be repudiated. He' regretted to say that the statement which he had quoted was met by loud cheers bjr the meeting. Now let them consider^'; what likelihood there was of these rail-"' ways in the North Island paying. He would read an extract from the Speech of a gentleman who was intimately connected with the North Island, who held a^._ high position, and Was a member of thd. General Assembly ; he referred to Mjp -"**'' Reader Wood. Mr Wood, in referring to a raUway proposed to be constructed ia the North Island, said •':■— ' One of the raUways which It was prtjfased ** under the present scheme to oonSfcruct waione throngh the: Northern Island— from Auckland to Taupo, frota Taupo to Whan- * -' ganui, and from Wanganui to Wellington* ' Taupo was in the centra of the island, 1 where; ■ there was alarge lake surrounded by adevr^r *. ef pumice. Some, years ago, an_ attempt: was made to establish sheep stations in th^i ' part of the country, but the attempt failed. With regard to the other terminus, Welling: ton, it was surrounded, not by a desert of .'"'. pumice, bufc'by a desert of clay hills. ' ,iS '' He (Mr Reid) could vouch for the trutH : v ' of that -statement at all events. Mr Wood ;;_ then went on to say : — The town was upon a very narrow margin * of land, in many places .not so large' aa that room. The town was maintained mainly as a town by the resident Government officials, who received out of the taxes of the people salaries of between L6OO and LI2OO a year* If it were not for this, Wellington would be . very little better than a mere ooaling-placte for Bteamers, What would be the use of making a railway from the desert of Taupo to the desert of Wellington? What prospect was there of such a concern as that paying, either directly or indirectly ? "*'".' Yet, notwithstanding, that railway would J ". \ extend over 350 mUes, and it would ctast * * ' *. ' Ll, 750,000, which would be the cost of construction if it could ha done at the rate "' - of LSOOO per mUe ; again an outlay would be involved in interest of from LBO,OOO to L 90,000 per annum. So much for tha ' railway for whioh surveys were already being made at a great expense, and which ' it appeared was to be constructed at once, whUst in the Middle Island there was to be constructed a miserable **; 170 or 180 mUes. He thought he had shewn to the meeting that under the scheme of the General Government aa it now stood, and which the Colonial Treasurer said must not be altered, justice ' would not be done to the Middle island. He now came to deal with the second point in the Colonial Treasurer's Bpeech, namely, that the Clutha railway could be ~ constructed under the scheme if the Provincial CouncU were agreeable. The Colonial Treasurer said : — I am under the impression that the Provincial CouncU was not fuUy aware that the General Government wu in a position to go into the measure. I have only to com* plain thatthe Council was not informed of this. Se however assured the meeting that the Provincial CouncU had before it eve*y tittle of information that was in the possession of the Provincial Government.—(Mr MTndob : No.) He would like Mr M'lndoe to tell the meeting what information was not placed before the Council which was in the possession of the Go- * vernment ; and he would ask further how the statement to whioh he had referred '-. taUied with the Colonial Secretary's letter, i which said that they were of opinion that it would not be expedient to enter into any agreement for the construction of the railway from Dunedin to the Clutha, ex- - cept upon the principle of a guarantee. The first time he had heard the statement as made by the Colonial Treasurer waa when he addressed a publio meeting at the Princess Theatre. The provjnpiaj CouncU had the power to construct Uto line, and would have done so had thp General Government shown a desire to • have it constructed. When the Colonial Treasurer stated that the General Govern* ment was desirous to get these works oar** ried out, he (Mr Reid) said that the "refusal of the General Government to advise the Governor to give his sanction to the Ordinance passed by the Provincial CouncU last session, proved that he was not sincere. He held in his hand an offer which had been tßade tfl construct the raUway on favourable tergag, if theGoveruorhad given hissanctionto thp BilL— (A Voicis : What abont the Port Chalmers raUway?) If the construction of the raUway was to be limited to Lsoooper mile, they would not get a better raUway than that which was being constructed from Dunedin to Port Chalmers. The Provincial Government had the power to guarantee at the rate of LBOOO per mUe on the Clutha RaUway, and the General Government hadreduced the sumon whi^

they took power to guarantee to LSOOO per < mile. Reducing the expense would not improve the character of the line. He ' wojuld read a letter, which had been received from Mr Audley Coote, forwarding aa offer to construct the Clutha line. Mr Cbote as foUows : — Hobart Town, Tasmania, -■ ■ - " - November sth, 1870. D. Reid, Esq., Secretary for Land and Works, Dunedin, Otago. Sir-r-I have the honour to acknowledge t^e receipt of yonr letter of the 13fch October, in whioh yon state, the Government would be quite prepared to extend the terms of the guarantee, but are prevented doing so by legal difficulties, and asking me to Bubmit an offer for the construction of the proposed ' railway Within the terma of the existing Act. 'I have now to inform you the gentlemen with whom lam associated would prefer to ] have the term extended wifch a reduoed guarantee ; consequently I am not able to make you an offer within the terms of the Aot. r I- may be allowed to state, I have sent the ; maps and Acts you furnished me with to ] lundon, and written fuU particulars to my , principals ; but I cannot hold ont any hope of such a guarantee being accepted by English capitalists. ' I anrinStrttcted to submit to your Govern- '. ment. aii offer to construct "at our own ooet" any railways they may require. The : guarantee to be not less than 5| per cent., : and for a term of not less than 35 years. ; Should this lead to business we are prepared j to give security tc the Government for the < prompt prosecution bf the work. , Tf the Government will undertake fco amend the Act " during next session," I will oozne " tb Otago and make all preliminary arrange- * menta before Parliament will meet again. I intended to have visifced Wellington at ' the time Parliament was sitting. 1 was ' prevented doing so by the Tasmanian Rail- 1 way BUI requiring my serious attention at , ' the time. 1 I have now to inform you the concession ■ has this day been signed by the Government ; of Tasmania for the Company whioh I repre- ] lent to construct the main line raUway. ( Ton WiU please excuse this harried letter. , It- is the English maU day, and your letter . only arrived this morning .—I have, &c. , (Signed) Audlev Coote. ' P. B. —l shoidd like to hear from you on ] this business. You will be kind enough to ] address me at 169 Premier terrace, William < street, Sydney, N.S.W., for two months, i and after that time to Hobart Town. ; (Signed) A. C. ' Immediately on the receipt of this offer, * the Provincial Government communicated ' with the General Government, asking ' whether, in the event of an Ordinance < being passed by the Provincial CouncU ' extending the term of the guarantee, it ' would be assented to by the Governor ; ( Mid they received a reply to the effect that ' the Colonial Treasurer was coming to ' Dunedin, and that they could arrange 1 with him.' The Provincial Government < Introduced a BUI extending the term of 1 the guarantee to meet Mr Coote's * offer, and it was unanimously passed * by the Provincial CouncU. They also j represented the matter to the Colonial j Treasurer when he arrived, showing that * it was necessary . to get the line con- £ steucted at once, and also showing that 1 the province had power to guarantee to < the extent of LBOOO per mUe ; whUe < under the scheme of the General Govern- ] ment a guarantee could not be given on a * larger sum than LSOOO per mUe, at < which sum it was nofc at aU probable * the work could be constructed. They j wished to get the work carried out at > once, but the reply received from the < Colonial Treasurer was a prompt and j emphatic refusal. He said the Governor - would not be advised to give his assent to | the Bill. The Colonial Treasurer, in < fact, endeavoured to make it appear that ] according to, an Act passed in 1867 it * woiild be ultra vires. But when they £ bore in mind that since that Act was ( passed the Clutha Guarantee RaUway 1 Ordinance had expired, and that since E that time an Ordinance had been assented ] to Whioh not only gave the province * power to guarantee 8 per cent, on a sum * not exceeding L 400,000, but which also gave the province power to purchase the , raUway, when constructed, at a cost of , L 400,000, then he contended that the i same power which could aUow fchem to do i that could, if they had so desired, i have assented to an Ordinance extend- i ing the term of the guarantee to ] 35 years, seeing that it was to < be reduced from 8 to 6| per cent. ( And if the Colonial Treasurer had been \ sincere in the statement he made as to j the necessity and importance of this - work, he would have placed the province * in the position to take advantage of Mr , Coote's offer, which was a favourable one < to the province, and under which the ] z-jdlway could have been constructed at \ jsnee. The Colonial Treasurer had said , the Qener&l Government were in a i Stsition te commence this raUway at once. c had, however, only ta say that he , ponaidered it was very doubtful. He thought |t was very doubtful whether the Colonial Treasury was financially in such & flourishing position, for he found that with regard to the sum of L 50,000 to be paid to Southland, which had been kept out of the pockets of the civil servants of that province for a very long period, and which he beUeved they felt as a great hardship, when application was made ior the Bum tq be paid to the Provincial Treasurer in order that the officers might be paid, intimation had been received that it was to be paid LSOOO at a time, at which rate the payment of the amount would extend over a period of about ten months. He was doubtful whether the Colonial Treasurer was in a position to pnter upon the construction of this line, Mid ever} if he were, it would be }^pogsible tq get cqntraptQrg fco conjjtrvjct the lipe for the sqm he was empowered to give. The Colonial Treasurer had also stated that it would be impossible for the Provincial Government to get the raUway constructed ; that if it were not constructed by the General Government, it oould not be constructed at aIL Now, what did the Colonial Treasurer say in the General Assembly 1 It was really unfortunate for public men that their words were sometimes taken down. — (Laughter.) The Colonial Trea- j Burer, on the occasion he referred to, fajd :— |$ut let ns, loo^t at the position of Canterbury and Otago in the matter. Each of those provinces already has powers which would enable ifc to go on wifch the construction of railways during the recess ; and ifc is quite certain, if nothing else is done, that chose proYincss would use their powers daring the repegs. WJiat wo^id be the result of that I Tbe Colonial Treasurer waa evidently alarmed at that. It would be to upset, probably, that equilibrium whioh we have succeeded in establishing during the present session, by the measures of the Government. If left to ifietpelyes, Canterbury and Ofcago will go in lpr railways on tljeir q^fn acpoqnt -they will do so upon extravagant systems probably, because they are npt in a position to get their linea constructed, or to borrow money for constructing them, advantageously \ and

once suoh steps are taken, those provinces would probably refuse to become parties to a system designed to be, and which we say is, applicable to the whole of the colony. j It would be seen that the statement whioh the Colonial Treasurer made in the General Assembly did not tally with those which he had just quoted. There he Baid ! it was competent for the Government to construct the raUway, but he Bubse- j quently stated that it could not be constructed except under the scheme of the Colonial Government. Now, it would be impossible to get that raUway constructed for LSOOO per mUe, according to the esti- j mates of the engineers ; and in taking into consideration the question of railway ! construction and raUway expenditure, they were bound to accept the testimony of engineers. — (A Voice : Yes, there has been plenty of expenditure.) Tes, there had been plenty of it, but there had been very little expenditure on that line, comparatively speaking, since he and has colleagues had taken office, although more had been done te bring it into public notice than had been done at any time previously, and at less coßt. According to Mr Paterson's estimate, the total cost of the line, after reducing everything to its lowest cost, would be L 375,000. Mr Brunton, after having made further reductions, estimated it, exclusive of cost of land compensation, at L358,800.— (A Voice : What was the gauge?) The gauge was 4ft. B|in. The average cost per mUe throughout, under Mr Paterson's estimate, would be L 7,20 0; the cost from Dunedin to the North Taieri Plain would be L 17,777 per mUe. There were some persons, of course, who frequently sneered at the estimates of engineers, but he repeated that in matters of this kind they could not do without engineers. He thought he had succeeded in shewing that the raUway could not be constructed at L 5,000 per mUe. The third point which had been placed before the citizens by the Colonial Treasurer was this — that unless they accepted the Act as it stood it would be rendered more distasteful to the Middle Island. He need not teU the meeting that they had the necessary power in their own hands, irrespective of the statements of the Colonial Treasurer. It was very Ul-timed on his part to give utterance to Buch a threat. The electors had the remedy in their own hands by securing the services of men whom they had tried, and who had the welfare of the province at heart. If the electors elected men in whom they had confidence, and who had already given them reason to be satisfied with them, they might yet rely upon having this scheme modified in such a manner as would tend to advance the interests of the Middle Island. Therefore, he again urged the electors to take care that they took means tb have the Act so modified as that they would secure a fair expenditure of the money within the province of Otago. The Colonial Treasurer also favoured the citizens with a quotation from the London Times. When he did so he mußt have been very hard pushed to obtain some favourable evidence of outside opinion on his Bcheme, and he overlooked the fact that in England people looked at matters here from a different point of view to what the colonists were in the habit of doing. He also remarked that the Government had received very satisfactory information from home as to their being enabled to carry on these works. It waa, however, much to be regretted that the Colonial Treasurer did not read a few extracts from the information which he stated the General Government had received. He was also sorry that the only satisfactory information which the Colonial Treasurer could give the citizens was that which he quoted from a home paper. He reaUy must say that information was very unsatisfactory. The writer, said the Colonial Treasurer, who had been speaking of the policy of the New Zealand Government, says : — It is impossible, in shert, to conceive a more satisfactory report of affairs than that now before us, and if, as we are assured, nothing beyond the maintenance of peace is needed to convert aU these anticipations into realities, the end ought not to be doubtful. Now he (Mr Reid) submitted that the Colonial Treasurer could not give the citizens a more weak and frivolous quotation than that which he had given them from the home paper referred to in support of his views, because it was very probable that the people outside the colony would look at the scheme in a very different light to what the colonists themselves looked at it. They were bound to Bee how it affected the different divisions of the colony, a point on which the people at home did not trouble themselves. The Provincial Government did not offer unqualified opposition to the scheme ; they merely said that they would not have it in its present Bhape. There was not the slightest doubt that the scheme as it stood would result in the colonisation of the North Island and in the construction of public workß there at the expense of the Middle Island ; ifc would result in the Middle Island land fund being absorbed into one common purse, [and that would mean that the control and administration of it would be taken from the people of the Middle Island. He had no doubt that the gentlemen who wished to make the scheme more colonial were imbued with the idea of taking away from the Middle Island the control of the waste lands, thinking, probably, that their interests would be better cared for under Buch altered circumstances. He thought he had shown that the Provincial CouncU were perfectly justified in the potion they took tq prevent aiiything being done under the Act, qntU the electors had had an opportunity of expressing aii opinion upon it. Would they be content to have L 3,430,000, 430,000 spent in the North Island as against H,4Q1,3Q0 in the South Island ? —(Cries of "No|") If so, let them make the fact known at the elections. He would now refer to a statement which had been industriously circulated with regard to the action of a majority of the Provincial CouncU. They had always been charged with not wishing to make any progress. It had been thundered forth to them evening after evening from the penny paper that administration under the present Government meant starvation— l^eid and clodocrapy— and hp h^d P;ot tfye ' sUgJitest dpubt that the citizens were beginning to brieve what they h^d been , told. They had had placed before then in the most elegant language the doing* of " Reid and his taU." He beUeved h< could trace the inspiration which hae \ suggested those articles. He had no doubl , that if Reid and his taU were sufficiently [ pUable — he could speak for l^imaelf 9,' i aU events — there woqld be no, bettP* , men in Qtago.— {Hejy:, hear, and oh > oh !) He was quite aware that if he hae ' consented to meet the views of certaii L parties there would, ia their opinion, b<

no better man in Otago than himself. — j (Oh !oh !) It had been often said to him " You know our views are very simUar, we can work together perfectly well." Had he given way to these blandishments there would have been no better man in the estimation of the evening paper then Reid. He stated with the utmost deference to the meeting, and to the party with whom he acted, that if any gentleman was found who it was beUeved would carry out their views that gentleman would secure his hearty support. He had not improved his position in a pecuniary point of view in the BUghtest degree since he had anything to do with politics, and he was sure he could say the same with regard to thoae gentlemen who had acted with him. In fact, the first thing the Provincial Government did after they took office was to reduce their salaries. It was not considered too much for their predecessors to receive LBOO per annum ; but the present Government reduced ; the amount to LSOO. He wished also to shew that the Government took steps to obtain a loan for the construction of large pubUc works, and it was well ; known that a majority of the CouncU were in favour of that being obtained. : They took power from the CouncU to obtain a loan of L 650,000. A simUar appU- i cation had been made by our predecessors, 1 but the General Government were justified in refusing these appUcations, mas- i much as specific seourity had never been < offered. In making appUcation for this loan, provision was made that it should 1 be obtained for the foUowing purposes and ' secured, namely : — " Southern Trunk 1 Railway, L 400,00 0; Water Supply on < Goldfields, L 100,00 0; Immigration, 1 L 50,000 ; Embankment of Rivers, i L 50,000 ; Oamaru Dock, L 20,000 ; Wai i taki Bridge, LIO,OOO ; Kakanui Harbour, ' L6OOO ; Waikouaiti Wharf, L 800 0; Shag i River Bridge, L 400 0; Lower Mataura < Bridge, L 200 0: total, L 650,000. Such 1 loan to be a general charge npon the pro- ' vincial revenue, and to be speciaUy secured i upon three miUion acres of land, at pre- i sent held under pastoral lease, and yield- ' ing a rental of L 32,000 a year. Provision 1 to be made whereby 'the lands set aside ' as security can be released from time to 1 time, in proportion to the extent to "I which the principal of the loan may < be extinguished." They offered to the Colonial Government tangible security i t6v the loan which was required, and '. forwarded a map showing the lands pro- < posed to be set aside. But what assist- - ance did they get from the Colonial ' Treasurer 1 He would read the Bpeech which the Colonial Treasurer made on 1 that occasion. It was as foUows :— i Of all fche provinces there could not be '. one which had a larger claim for a vote of j money for publio wows than Otago. There ** was no province whioh oonld offer better < Beourity, nor was there any whioh had more ■ sincerely at heart the progress of settle- j ment. There might be other provinoes ■ of whioh as muoh might be said ; certainly j there was no provinoe whioh was entitled to | more consideration in that respect. Bnt the , question they had had to consider aU this ! session was, whether there should not be some self-sacrifice on the part of the more wealthy ' provinces in favour of those provinces which were not so fortunately situated? Were « the wealthy provinces to stand aloof and < see the smaUer and less wealthy ones starve ? I or were they not rather to endeavour to aid < the progress of other parts of the oolony, \ and by making them participate in tbe large . worlu about to be undertaken by the Govern- j ment, promote the general prosperity oi the ( whole oolony ? Ofcago had given up, in favour of ihe Government measures, the charge of constructing its- raUway. Having adopted the principle that the whole of the provinces * shonld unite for the purpose of promoting - settlement in different parts of the colony, 1 it would be inconsistent to go back from i that position and to say that one particular ' province should use its borrowing pewer in ] such a way as would lessen fche credit of the • whole by dividing up the borrowing power. , The Colonial Treasurer desired that our j land revenue should be secured as a < means to borrow large sums for expend!- i ture on works in the North Island. When * the Middle Island only had land to offer j as security, it had a right to expect that 1 it would be allowed to borrow on that * security. But the Provincial Government 1 were refused that opportunity, and were ' therefore precluded from entering upon i these public works. He would now refer i to the Clutha raUway ; that was a matter ' in respect of which a serious misappre- . hension existed amongst the pubUc. Whereas charges had been brought against : the Government that it was not in earnest ' in regard to this work, he wished to shew that the Government had done everything that could be done to facUitate its construction. There seemed to be a great misapprehension in the public mind as to the powers possessed by the Government to give land aB security for its construction. The Government had received a great number of offers, but nearly the whole of them were contingent on land being set aside as security, and none of them came within the terms which the Government were empowered to offer. The meeting had no doubt heard of the offer made by a local oompany to construct this line, but the terms asked were such as the Government could not agree to. Ho wished to show that whilst the Company could have done the Government good service, and no doubt they were desirous of doing so, by enabUng them to take advantage of the Ordinance which was then about to expire — that whUßt it might have done the province good service, if the Ordinance had not been renewed, yet seeing that afc this time the Government had received information that the term of the Ordinance would be extended, they had no occaaioa to enter into such an arrangement as was proposed by the Oompany. He would read an extract from the agreement whioh the Company proposed the Government should enter into, It was as foUows :-^ That if the said Company BhaU so cpnsti-. tu'e and register themselves as a Joint Stock Company as aforesaid, and if from any cause whatever an arrangement satisfactory to the said Joint Stook Oompany when so established as aforesaid shall not be entered into with them by the Superintendent of the said Province of Otago, for guaranteeing dividend or interest on the paid up capital of the said Joint Stock Company for the period of fifteen years at the rate of 8 per cent, per annum ; or if on any account whatever an arrangement satisfactory to the said Company for the construction of the ss^d RaUway cannot be conoluded between the Baid Company and the Superintendent of the Province of Qtago, then, and in any such case, the Superintendent of the Pt ovince of Otago shall and wUI, within fourteen days after the ne* gotiationa tending to suoh arrangement BhaU have terminated, or within fourteen days after notioe from the said Cojnpany o^ the failure of such negotiations, repay to the said Coityptny all costs charges and expenses incurred by fche said Company in registering the said Company under the provisions of the s»id " Joint Stock Companies Act I860," or incidental thereto, and all other costs charges and expenses whatsoever, which shall bona fide be incurred by the said Company with the previous sanction or approval ut writing of the said Superintendent and his 1 Executive CouncU for the time being.

That agreement merely made provision that a company should be formed, and that the Government should pay all the expenses in connection with its formation, and also all other expenses that might be incurred by the Company with the sanction of the Government. The Government requested the Company to name the maximum of the amount which they would require, but they refused to do so. They urged, as an excuse, that they might have to go io America to negotiate for money; that their negotiations might be attended with great expense ; that they Bhould do aU this to meet the views of the Government ; and thafc, of course, they did not want to be out of pocket by the transaction. Was that, he asked, a reasonable position for the Government to be placed in ? The Ordinance had been extended, and the Government said, now that they had an extended Ordinance for another three years . that if the Company would make them an offer within the terms of the Ordinance the Government Would give it their favourable consideration. But the Company did not think fit to do that. The Government then advertised the matter in the newspapers, and told the Company that if they Bent in an offer as favourable as any other, then they would get the preference. The Government advertised throughout the Australian Colonies, but he regretted to say that they did not receive an offer whioh came within their power to accept. Therefore those gentlemen who stated that the work might now, but for the action of the Government, have been in progress, did not teU the truth. The action taken by the Government, however, had resulted in several offers being made. For instance, the offer made by Mr Audley Coote, which was a most favourable one to the Province, would have come within the power of the Provincial Government to accept it if the General Government had agreed to the Ordinance which extended tiie guarantee. It was not in the power of the Provincial Government to set any land aside as a guarantee for this raUway, but appUcation was made to the General Assembly to enable them to do so, which appUcation was not agreed to. The Government also received an offer from Mr John Millar, of Dunedin. — (Laughter.) He reaUy did not understand what the meeting were laughing at ; He could assure tbem that Mr Millar's document was a very voluminous one. He would not read the whole of it ; he would merely read the substance of Mr MUlar's proposal. Mr Millar tendered to construct the line for L 371,000, guarantee 8 per cent, per annum for fifteen years ; 400,000 acres of land to be granted to the Company, &c. That was an offer not within the power of the Government to accept, and he wished the meeting to bear the fact in mind that the Government had no power to grant land as security, in order that false impressions created might be removed. The Government received another offer from Mr J. R. Davies, of Melbourne, who said :— "lf 400,000 acres of land are set aside and sold with the view to the purchase of the raUway at the end of 15 years, a company wUI be at once formed. " Then Mr Brunton ' ' offered to proceed to Britain to raise the necessary capital if land were set aside as a guarantee, and he was paid 3 per cent, on the amount raised." Mr Larnach " offered to raise L 500,000 on a guarantee of 8 per cent, for not less than 10 yeai* or more than 50 years, security to be given over railway plant, &c., and land equal in acreage at 20s per acre," &c. Mr J. R. Davies's offer was a repetition of the one he had already read. The next offer was from Messrs Peyman and Abbott, who " offered to construct the line on a guarantee of 8 per cent, up to L 400,000 on the amount expended ; the Government to purchase on or before 15 years ; 400,000 acres land to be set aside as Becurity ; the company to receive rent and profits thereof," &c. That was another offer which depended on the Betting aside of land in payment. He thought he had said enough to show that every one of those offers depended upon land being set aside, but this the General Government would not give them power to do. He did not know whether he need refer to the remarks which were made by the Colonial Treasurer in regard to the Port Chalmers RaUway. The Colonial Treasurer had told the citizens that the raUway was being most extravagantly constricted, and that nobody's interest was protected except that of the contractors. He certainly thought the Colonial Treasurer went somewhat out of his way to refer to that transaction. He was bound to say that he did not himself approve of the scheme on which that raUway was constructed. He did not approve of its being made a tax on the jetty dues ; that was a most unjust provision ; but it was the Colonial Treasurer who initiated the scheme in such a way as resulted in its being brought to its present shape. However, he (Mr Reid) had nothing to do with that. It was put into suoh a shape that it was impossible for the Government to withdraw from it. He wished to show that a very large Company was formed here for the construction of that raUway ; that the Company asked a guarantee of eight per cent on a sum of LIOO,OOO, and they wished a block of land to be set aside as security. The Company was composed of most of the great men of Dunedin, and he believed it had been formed so large in order to intimidate the Government into acceding to their terms. The Government offered to give the Company a guarantee of L7Q,000 without land. He would read the resolution that was passed by the Committee oi the CouncU when the Government declined ts accede to their request to set aside a blook of land, or to give a guarantee on a larger amount than L 70,000. It read as follows :— - Resolution of Provisional Committee. — That the proposed agreement with the Government having been read and considered, this meeting finding that as the amount fixed by the Government on which the guarantee is to be paid is much under what it has been ascertained the railway oas be built for ; that as the elapse giving the Company the additional security o\ a block of land as agreed to by the Provincial Council has been struck out ; and that as the Government has inserted tenuis and conditions in connection with the construction and working of the proposed raUway whioh the Comu^ttee. considers both unreasonable and absurd. Resolves, That unless the government is prepared to accede generally to similar terms as were embodied; in the original draft agreement, the proposed Company abandon the | scheme altogether, and request the Chairman to intimate this resolution to His Honour the Superintendent forthwith. — Carried unanimously. November 16th, ; 1869. ! The Government aUowed the Company to ' , abandon the undertaking, and whatever the J '. Colonial Treasurer might Bay about the { [ raUway being constructed in aa extravat gant manner, the Government cc^t&aded < that they had *$$« tl^e b^t arrangement

they could for the province under the circumstances, and ita interests were better protected under that arrangement than it was under the Immigration and PubUc Works Scheme of the Colonial Government. He now wished to refer to the question of Public Works. They had been told that this Provincial Government were not desirous of constructing any public works. They had been told about "Reid and Starvation," and "Reid and no works." — (Interruption.) He repeated that they had been also told about "Reid and Clodocracy;" but he wished to explain to them that there was another evU to be feared as much as Clodocracy — namely, Snobocracy ; and if ever there was a country under God's sun in which the snobs reigned triumphant it was this quack ridden city of Dunedin. — (Laughter.) He would ask them to believe that those persons who sneered at clodocracy sneered at the stalwart artizan and brawny labourer. Those men had no sympathy with the working men generaUy, however much they might pretend to have. They would have the people beUeve that the interests of the agriculturists were not identical with those of the artizans and labourers. He wished them to understand that their interests were identical. He had already shewn what occurred when the Government asked that a loan should be granted, and he now wished to shew what position they were placed in when they recommended that large areas of land should be opened for sale, with a view of promoting settlement and obtaining revenue for expenditure on pubHc works. If land had been placed in the market they would- have been in a position to get these works constructed. When the Government came into office they found that their predecessors had scraped together every shilling which could be extracted from the sale of the waste lands of the Crown. Reserves which had been made for the benefit of the settlera were forced on the market— what would not seU at Ll was offered for 10s. The fee simple of lands which had been reclaimed from the harbour at a great cost, and which were let for a term of 99 years, at a large rental which was accruing to the Province, were sold at anction for a mere bagateUe. It appeared to be considered desirable that the whole Bhould be forced into the Treasury in order to keep up the balance at the command of the Treasurer. One of the first acts of this Provincial Government was to request that large areas of land should be thrown into Hundreds. They were met, however, by an Act passed by the Assembly, throwing every obstacle in the way of the lands being opened for settlement. He could not refer to this matter without feelings of indignation arising in his mind at the manner in which that Act had been passed, and in the passing of which a march had been stolen on tbis province — an Act which placed the runholder in a position to obtain 2s 6d, per acre for the surrender of his grazing right, and unlimited compensation for all improvements made on lands proposed to be taken. In the face of such an Act the Government did not feel justified in recommending these Hundreds to be proclaimed, because ithe amount of compensation required would absorb aU the revenue which the Government could hope to realise irom land sales during the financial year. Previous to this time there was no compensation allowed for grazing rights, and for actual improvements a compensation equal only to about 6d per acre. They could not agree to take any action in the matter, and therefore decided to submit it to the consideration of the Provincial CouncU. He repeated that a march had been stolen on the province, and that if there had been two firm members in the Assembly who were determined to do their duty to the province that Act would never have become law. The Government asked the Provincial CouncU to assist them in resisting what they had every reason to beUeve would prove a great obstacle to the progress of settlement in the provinoe, but they did not receive that amount of Bupport which they had aright to expect. The action taken at that time would teU upon the future interests of this province. What was the position taken up by She supporters of this act — the Hundreds Regulation Act ? The Government was met by the cry " put the Act into operation, and you can get Hundreds aU over the province at once." What were the facts of the case ? Most urgent applioation was made some ten weeks ago to get Hundreds proclaimed under that Act, and he had reason to beUeve that there were a number of gentlemen traveUing through the oountry at the expense of the province with large cheese tasters — (applause and laughter)—with large cheese-tasters to determine whether the land which had been asked for by the people was fit for them to occupy. In fact, those gentlemen, who had Uttle or no knowledge as to the requirements of the peoplo, were to determine whether they should be allowed to occupy the waste lands or not. He that day saw a very ridiculous, tele- ! gram from the Colonial Secretary regarding this matter, to the effect that the | Commissioners had reported that certain | Hundreds which had been recommended j by the Provincial CouncU, after careful enquiry, could not be granted in the shape in which they were recommended, but suggesting to the Government to make certain other recommendations, and then the Commissioners would again be requested to report. They had been two months waiting for these Hundreds, but as far as he could see they might have to wait another two months. This, too, was being done at a time when people were anxiously seeking for land, and disheartened because they could not obtain it. He waa aware that some persons were disposed, to, accept leases of land rather thftn wait longer, although they were \n a, position to purchase it ; yet, in, the face of this, the Colonial Tr^n^r spol^e to them in glowing of the advantages of colonisation and the settlement of the people on i the lands. The land question waa one | which was intimately associated with the | Immigration and Py,bUc Works Act, | Th»t had beei?, remarked by many members of the Assembly, and it waa said by one that it was the backbone of the whole scheme ; and he was of the sa,me opinion. Unless more Überal provision were rciade that the population which was in the colony, and which might be introduced under this scheme, could settle npon the lands of the country, the scheme would, instead of being an advantage, tend to ruin the country, because unless we increased our population permanently settled on the soU, it would be impossible to bear the increased ta^ati?"^ which this scheme must inevitably create. Whilst he said this, h$ <^ not overlook the fact th^t th, e *£ wepe other industries beaide. that of agriculture which ought to *be fosteiJed ; but these industries could not prosper unless thero was population