OTAGO AND SOUTHLAND UNION BILL.

Southland Times, Issue 1295, 19 August 1870, Page 3

OTAGO AND SOUTHLAND UNION BILL.

{Hansard.) Mr Driver would give his reasons for opposing the second reading of this Bill, and he thought that, as a member 'of, the Provincial .Council, the House would see at once that he was justified in doing so after the speech which had fallen from the honorable member for Eiverton. He w»uld speak mainly &f a member for Otago; and being entirely acquainted with the affairs of both the Provinces of Otago and 1 Southland, he must say that probably, if he were a member of the Provincial Council, he would have made a similar speech to that made by the honorable member for Riverton, but being from Otago, he must entirely differ from him. He thought that, by the passing of the proposed Bill, Southland had very little to lose and Otigo nothing to gain but the comniencement of a decline. He could not see, after the speeches of the honorable member for Eiverton and the honorable member for Mongonui, how honorable members from Otago could consistently vote for the second reading of the Bill. Honorable members who were members of the Provincial Council of Otago, or even resident in that Province, must be aware that it was the custom in the Council in Otago usually to pile large sums upon the estimates, not'one-half of which was spent, and tKe\^wi«i & consequence, ; -- a continual 1 outeirthrougtioutthe Province that there wai no money being spent and no roads being made j and great complaints were being made about the length of time occupied in the passage of the coach from Tnapekato Dunedin. Consequently, he looked upon the passing of the Bill as being one which would be sure to be disapproved of throughout the whole of the Province. Although the resolutions passed the Provincial Council of Otago " without a division, they had never been submitted to the people. As far as his knowledge went, the people of Otago had expressed an opinion adverse to the union. While they were unable to aatisfy the want of mail communication and paasengertrafficinOtago, itwas manifestly impolitic to accept the responsibility of the standing debt of Southland. With all deference to the Premier, he took leave to think that £50,000 would not pay the current liabilities of Southland. He knew himself that there was scarcely a working manor a shopkeeper in the Province who bad not a Government voucher for which he could not get the money. While he admitted that the Government was bound to do something to relieve Southland from its present difficulties, he thought it would be wrong, both from a provincial and colonial point of view, to join it with Otago. If the 10th clause in the Bill were passed, it would dissolve the Provincial Council of Southland, and send a gentleman there to administer the affairs and collect the land revenue ; but if the people of Southland would divide themselves into road boards, and tax them, selves, they would do better. They would not tax themselves, and even allowed their very windows to remain broken and their houses out of repair, and had not for^thollast year taxed themselves for roadsl Consequently they could not help themselves, and ought not to expect to be helped. He, as a member from the Province of Otago, must raise his voice against the Bill being passed, at any rate in its present form. If it were passed at present, he took it that the Government " could bring it into force before the new Provincial Council of Otago had an opportunity of considering it, or . the people, of Otago an opportunity of expressing their opinion on it. He thought a permissive clause should be inserted, which would prevent the Bill from being put into force until the new Provincial Council of Otago had consented to it. If honorable members would take the trouble tp^ read the report of the Commissioners who went to Southland, of whom the honorable member for Dunedin was one, they would admit that there was nothing in it which would lead any business lean or sensible man to suppose that it was ever possible for a reunion to take place between the two Provinces. It was distinctly set forth in that report that the basis of the reunion should be that separate accounts of each Province should be kept. If Southland bad a separate account kept, what advantage would it be for Otago to be its master? from his intimate acquaintance with the present feeling in Southland on this subject, he had no hesitation in stating that since the recent elections there had been a thorough reversion of opinion, and that the majority of the people would be opposed to the reunion, unless, as was stated during the time of the elections, thousands of pounds were sent there to relieve them of their difficulties. He could corroborate what the honorable member for Wallace had stated, that if the affairs of Southland were properly and economically administered, in a short time it would be relieved from its present difficulties. One of the finest Provinces he had seen in New Zealand had been ruined by being too much governed. The land law, free selection, had been made the means of squandering money upon useless works, and works had been let under the most vicious system, and forced into the market at a reduced rate,imp6verishing the people, from the runholder down to the farmer. He disagreed with the honorable member for Wallace, when he said that there was a very large quantity of land in the pro* vince fit for settlement which was unsold. He. . admitted that there was, if the province were thickly and numerously populated; but for many years to come the unsold land would not be in demand, only in small lots, at anything more than . 10s per acre. He would not move that the Bill be read that day three months, but be did hope that every hon. member from the Province of Otago, especially the hon." member for Dunedin, would oppose the Bill in its present arbitrary form, as there bad not been, at any public meetings, or elections, any mani-

festation of opinion on the part of the people of Otago. Ho would do the hon. member for Dunedin the justice to say that when he was one of the Commissioners he did not send in any definite or intelligible scheme for joining the two provinces, and took care to bind Otago to nothing except to the promise to take over Southland when the terms were settled, and to give her the separate revenue which might be derived in the province. He called upon hon. members not to be guided by the speech of the hon. member for Mongonui, and vote for the second reading of the Bill, because the very reasons which that hon. member gave why the two provinces should not have been separated, might be fairly used now as an argument why they should not Ibe joined together. The Province, i since its separation, had been very recklessly carrying on works, and had spent £450,000, besides the land fund which they had received and squandered, and they had not got £50,000 in the Province to show for it. There was not twelve miles of metalled road, and all their available land was sold, and only 6,000 people were settled upon it. (No, no.) He said the population would not exceed 7,000, men, women, and children. ¥6v the last twelve months he (Mr Driver) had a contract in Southland for building a railway, and had taken land in payment on long terms, and he had not been able to dispose of 20,000 acres in twelve months. He trusted the Premier would gee his way to adopt his suggestion, and insert a permissive clause, to prevent the Bill being put into force without first having received the consent of the new Provincial Council of Otago shortly to be elected. Mr W. Wood, in resuming the debate oh the second reading of this Bill, did not desire to address the House at that early stage of the debate, but, in accordance with the wish of some honorable members, he had no objectidni to do so, especially as he had no statements to make which were likely to be challenged. With reference to the Bill before the House, it would be remembered by most honorable members that a similar Bill had boon before the Assembly last session, but was objected to in another place, on the ground that the people in the provinces of Otago and Southland had not been consulted. Since that time a new election had taken place in Southland, entirely on account of this Bill, and the result had been that a large majority of members had been returned to the Provincial Council, favorable to the reunion of the provinces. An honorable member had stated during the debate that on a resolution in the Provincial Council, affirming the necessity for reunion, six were opposed to the reunion, and eleven favorable to it. That was the result of the division, but they might fairly add two other names to those favorable to the reunion, for be himself was returned as a supporter of the reunion, and expressly for the purpose of advocating reunion ; and again, he was placed in the position of Superintendent of the Province entirely with the view that they should have a reunion Superintendent. He might also state that the seat he resigned ~on that occasion had been filled by a reunion advocate. He might also be excused for referring to the resignation of the late member for Eiverton, who had always very fairly stated the views of his constituents when he had the honor of holding a seat in the Assembly ; but that gentleman very honorably resigned his seat when he found that his views were opposed to those of his constituents on the subject, and his place had been filled by the present representative of that district (Mr M'Gillivray), who had been returned without opposition, and with t-ie almost unanimous wish of the constituency, no one daring to come forward to oppose him, although he was an untried man as an advocate of any shade of politics. The honorable member for Eoslyn, in speaking of the honorable member for Riverton, stated that the honorable member had alluded so unfavorably to the position of Southland, that he seemed to feel deterred from having anything to do with re-uniting with a province in such a position. If those remarks had so operated - in the mind of the honorable member for Eoslyn, he (Mr Wood) thought that the honorable member for Wallace had stated so many facts in favor of Southland, of her position and wealth, that if there had been any other wavering members from Otago they would have been inclined to support the re-union — that they would have considered the advantage of being re-united to such a splendid estate as Southland. In Otago there had been no general election expressly on that question, and the honorable member for Eoslyn had referred to that as being a cause why he should feel justified in opposing it. The question had been .repeatedly before the Council.of Otago,"'and it had always been favorably considered. It was the people of Southland who been reluctant to accept the change up to within the last year or two. There nad been no petition or demonstration got up in Otago against re-union, although nine months had elapsed since the Commissioners met and decided on the basis of the reunion, and the question was fully discussed in the Council ; oh the contrary, silence had in the fullest sense given consent. The honorable member for Wallace had asked on what principle the House should extinguish the province of Southland — w fcy n ot leave it an independent political existence? If they could not manage tneir own affairs for want of funds, send them down a General Government agent to undertake the duty for them. He would remind the hon. member that the laws of New Zealand had been framed by gentlemen who seemed to entertain a rather different notion of what was an independent political existence. The laws had been framed to give the provinces a representative form of Government ; and if the province of Southland had got into such a position as to make it very

difficult for her to manage her affairs, th< best thing for her to do was to merge he political existence in the province o Otago, where there was every probability of the people having a voice in th< management of their affairs. The hon member looked upon the £25,000 debt ai a paltry matter, and that they shoulc not destroy | their forms of Q-overnmeni on account of such a trifle ; but it musi be remembered that the debt 01 £430,000 made it rather difficult tc obtain the £25,000. The hon. membei spoke of £70,000 as being expended oul of current revenue, but he (Mr Wood) would remind him that it had notexactlj been current revenue. £25,000 represented the land specially set apart for the completion of the railway ; and the item of £20,000 was the result of a mistake made when" the debt of Southland was being consolidated. He might be pardoned if he referred to the hon. gerileman's brilliant electioneering career, especially as it had been asserted that a certain reaction had taken place in Southland since the question of re-union was before that province. On that occasion the honorable gentleman stated that he had contested the election for Campbelltown with himself, the result being that he (Mr Wood) obtained a seat by a majority of one vote, and the honorable gentleman's statement was so near the truth, that he would not deny it; but the honorable gentleman also stated that was the result of one day's notice. He could assure the honorable gentleman that, on his return last year from the Assembly, before he was out of his cabin, an elector of Campbelltown came and knocked at the door when at the Bluff. The elector said, "We shall want you, I think, to represent this district again. There have been certain gentlemen here canvassing for Mr Webster, but we do not intend to have him. The people of Invercargill have got up a requisition in favor of him, and want us to sign it, but we have refused almost to a man." Many of the electors pf Invercargill are also electors of the Bluff, and a number of them had been induced to sign the requisition in favor of that gentleman. He (Mr Wood) did not receive the requisition until ten days after his return, and he succeeded in beating the honorable gentleman by a narrowmajority. The honorable member was a splendid general, and very good at conducting his own election, and deserved better success. The honorable member tried another constituency, and the nomination took place on the following day: the honorable member for Boslyn (Mr Driver) was his staunch supporter. That honorable gentleman held a contract for the Wintou railway, and it was well known that he possessed influence over a lar^e number of electors. The honorable gentleman was very accommodating to returning officers ; he had a weakness for returning officers. When the honorable gentleman contested the election with the honorable member for Bruce, it appeared in the newspapers that the returning officer was in his trap. He (Mr Wood) hoped the returning officer would not be allowed to charge three guineas travelling expenses each way. The honorable gentleman, in his next vain effort to secure his return to the Provincial Council, was a^ain to be seen with the returning officer in his trap. The honorable member had not only the assistance of the present railway contractor, but he had also the support of the late railway contractor. Havingagainbeen defeated, the honorable gentleman secured the assistance of the honorable member for Eoslyn (Mr Driver) in a further effort to be elected, and also the support of an influential banker there. If he (Mr Wood) had been in the House when the Ballot Bill was under discussion, he would have adduced two or three facts in connection with that election, which would have proved the necessity for the ballot. However, on the third occasion, the honorable gentleman was also defeated. He tried again within a few days, and that time he was successful. He (Mr Wood) was told by an honorable gentleman holding a seat in another place who was then visiting Southland, that he did not know the honorable . member for Wallace, but that he had heard, when he came up to Wellington, that great things were expected from him, and that when the Stafford Ministry returned to office, which they were almost certain to do, the honorable member for Wallace would have a seat on the treasury benches. Well, he hoped the honorable gentleman would pardon him for giving him one word of advice, as he had the prospect of a brilliant career before him — not to take advantage of the simplicity of honorable members of that House, by telling them that the debt of the province of Southland was only £25,000, when in reality it was £460,000. The honorable gentleman said — Why extinguish, a province like this P Why not keep their independent existence and their revenue ? He thought it required but a very short answer. The want of revenue — the whole income of the province being absorbed in paying the interest on this large debt — prevented them from keeping their revenue. The want of revenue compelled them to give up their separate and independent existence. He could not quite concur in all the remarks of the honorable member for Riverton in reference to the almost hopeless state of insolvency that he j seemed to think Southland labored under. Mr M'Q-illivray — I did not say vency. Mr W. Wood said lie thought the honorable member : made out a worse case than was necessary. However, that was a matter of taste. He was quite ready to admit that the affairs of Southland were not altogether desperate —there was a bright as well as a dark side to them. There were its pastoral, agricultural, and mineral resources, which were equal to those of any other province, and superior to many ; but for want of the necessary funds they, could not perform the duties which devolved

b on them as a province. They had n< r means to maintain either main roads 01 f district roads, benevolent institutions j hospitals, or asylums for the destitute ii 3 any . other shape. They had not th( .. > means of paying the police, or keeping a up the offices in the various departments 1" necessary for carrying on the Provincial b Government and Provincial institutions, b By the reunion of the provinces he f believed that difficulty would be removed. ) The honorable member for Wallace said • that the people of Southland had been b told that Otago would come down with I £100,000 to relieve the necessities of the r lister province, and to take the govern- • ment of it. He would only .say that he > had never heard any such statement made i in Southland, nor did . he think that if it > were made there, any person would be i found to believe it ; but he believed that • both provinces would be benefited by the union. There were many reasons that led him to that opinion. Not only were the lands of the province very valuable— the unsold lands were sufficient, if sold, to pay the debt twice over — bat he believed that the railways, when the province was more thickly populated, and its resources developed, would become valuable, although at present they were of comparatively little value for want of greater traffic on them. With reference to the refaction which was said to have taken place in the province, he had forgotten ene item, and as it was a matter involving a promise given to a number of his constituents, ha would refer to it. At the time of the election in Southland, about nine months back— the election which took place on this question of reunion — the number of votes given on that occasion was between 250 and 300. The highest number given for any one gentleman was given for DrMenzies, a gentleman well known in Southland, who was the first Superintendent of tie Province. The number of votes given for Dr Menzies was 150. He was opposed to reunion, and those votes were given to him on account of his opposition to reunion, and two or three gentlemen who had held seats in the Provincial Council before, were thrown out at Invercargill because they were re-union men. About two months back, a requisition was got up in Invercargill calling upon him (Mr Wood) to resign his seat in the Assembly on the ground that his views on the re-union question were not in accordance with theirs. That requisition was in the hands of gentlemen who had taken a very active part in this matter, and was signed by 76 only. Now, when 158 men were found to vote in favor of a gentleman opposed to re-union nine months ago, and only ; 76 in a constituency of 433 were found to ■ request him to resign his seat, it did show that there was a reaction in the public opinion of the province, but in a totally different way from that which the honorable member had represented. He would now call attention to one or two items which formed part of the reports agreed upon by those gentlemen who were deputed by the two provinces acting as Commißsioners for the purpose «f drawi ing up the basis of re-union ; one portion of it was that separate accounts should | be kept, as referred to by the honorable member for Eoslyn in his speech. They adopted the resolution that separate accounts should be kept. Mr Reynolds — The Otasro Commissioners did not wish that ; it was put in the report entirely at the desire of the Southland Commissioners ; the others j gave way with great reluctance. ; Mr W. Wood— He was obliged to the honorable member for assisting him in piaeing the fact beyond all doubt. What he was going to state was this : That since that time the Councils of both provinces had met, and had agreed to strike out that portion of the report and adopt the rest. They were told by the Colonial Treasurer, when this Bill was before the Assembly last year, that two courses were open to Southland — one of which was to reunite with. Otago, in order to overcome the difficulties by which they were beset, and the other was to realise on the lands of the province by selling them at such prices as would enable them to sell a sufficient quantity to meet their engagements. It was thought objectionable to reduce the price of land, as they would in that case fall into the hands of a few large occupiers, and thus shut up the country for the purposes of settlement ; they therefore wisely adopted the course of re-uniting with Otago. There were only two alternatives in this case, namely, that of accepting the Bill then before the Assembly, or providing some other mode of enabling Southland to overcome her difficulties. It» would devolve on those honorable gentlemen who thought they were justified in opposing the .Bill, to provide some other means by which Southland might overdome her difficulties —he meant if they should oppose it successfully. There was another question which also formed part of the report of the Commissioners — it was a matter to which the people of Southland and the surrounding districts attached a great deal of importance — -the increasing the boundaries of the land ' sales and registration district. Instead of going all the way to Dunedin to register deeds and various documents of a legal character, which were necessary on transferring land, station properties, stock, wool, and produce, and various kinds of securities, the necessity for getting those documents properly registered often caused gentlemen living in some district^ to travel some li>o miles for that purpose; By having the in the district, all this might be done without necessitating their travelling beyond twenty five or thirty miles. They knew how desirable all these facilities were, and had fully adopted the principle in postal and systems : this would be a step in the same direction, increasing the boundaries of the land sales and the registration dictrict. Before coming away from Southland he.consulted a gentleman at the head of the waste (

3 lands department, who informed him that r there would be no difficulty in carrying , out the separate land laws in the same 1 department. This was one of the i conditions of reunion on which the > people of Southland were almost » unanimous, and he therefore trusted that L it would be strictly adhered to in the . Bill. It was not yet provided for in the i Bill, but he had amendments to propose . to effect that object, which . he should I submit for the consideration of honorable i members when the Bill was in com— i mittee. He would not trouble the ■ House with any farther remarks beyond ■ saying that he should support the Bill.