OTAGO AND SOUTHLAND UNION BILL.

Southland Times, Issue 1292, 12 August 1870, Page 3

OTAGO AND SOUTHLAND UNION BILL.

• — {Hansard.) Mr Reynold** stated that it was not the wish of the Government to force the __ union of Otago and Southland, unless with the free will of the people. He wished to state to the House tlie exact position of the matter. During the session of the Provincial Council of Otago prior to the last session of the House, there was a resolution passed to the effect that, in the event of Southland wishing to join Otago, and Otago being desirous pf joining Southland, the union should be carried out on certain conditions. A resolution wa-* sent by the Provincial Council of Southland, asking the Government to introduce a Bill for the union of the two Provinces. That Bill was introduced, but was thrown out by another Legislature. The Provincial Council of Southland, in the meantime, was dissolved, and new elections took place upon the question. Though the honorable member for Wallace might protest to the contrary, he was prepared to state that the question of the union was the principal cry at the elections. Prior to the election, Commissioners went from OtaEjo to meet Commissioners from Southland, and great care was taken to ascertain what- -would- suit Tboth Provinces. A report "was thereupon drawn up and approved of unanimously by the Commissioners. After the general elections in Southland the Council met, and carried by the large majority of two to one the resolution agreeing to the report of the Commissioners, and adking the Superintendent to take steps to get a Bill introduced into tbis House to secure the union. They forwarded it to the Superintendent of Otago, who sent it to the Provincial Council of Otago, and they likewise assented to the union. It was the Provincial' Councils of Otago and Southland, and the electors of Southland, who had. decided the question; and he thought it would be very wrong on the - part-of-this House to prevent the union between the two Provinces, when a large majority of the population of those « Provinces were in favor of that union. He wonld defy the honorable member to the- fact, that out of the eighteen members of the Provincial ' Council of Southland, twelve were in favor of the union and six against it. - Mr Webster. — Eleven. Mr Reynolds. — Eleven voted, but the ~ Speaker was elected also upon the union cry, so that there were actually twelve members elected on the union cry, . against six who were against it. Mr Mervyn. — What about the people " of Otago ? Mr Reynolds. — The Provincial Council of OtagOy representing the settlers, decided in favor of the union. The honorable member had quoted a number of figures to show that the Province of Southland was in a very good position. He was not going to dispute that with him— that the Province was perfectly solvent. He believed it was solvent, and in as good a position almost as any Province in the Colony ; but the difficulty was this, that she was in the same ' porition"afTa~ person who had a large estate and had not the funds to work that estate to advantage. By the union the two Provinces could be worked to the advantage of each other. He did not say that it would be entirely for the benefit of Southland ; he believed Otago would also benefit by the union, although not at the present time. Otago would now be . considerably out of pocket, but ultimately, from Southland's position, both Provinces would^deriye a benefit. The honorable member, -by the figures he had quoted, wanted, to prove that, after providing for "the General Government charges and interest and the provincial appropriations, there would still exist a surplus of £18,586 ; but then the honorable member had based his calculations, not on the actual revenue for the past year, but, as far as the land revenue was concerned, he Jhad taken.it at £32,325, being the average "annual revenue for the last four years, and in this average he thought credit was taken for land which had not been sold bnt given for railway purposes. Mr Websteri— lt was all sold, with the exception of three or four thousand acres. Mr Reynolds wonld take it for granted tbat there were only three or four thousand acres remaining unsold of the railway 7 land. The actual receipts and expenditure of Southland for the year ending 31st • December, 1869, showed tbat. the revenue was £52^224, and that the expenditure in excess of revenue was £5,412. When the Commissioners were in Southland they found that there . was £5,165 19s of an overdraft, and £12,000 liability on account of unpaid vouchers. That would give an indebtedness, at that time, of £17,165. He believed it would exceed that amount. Ha did not know what authority the honorable member had for stating that £100,000 had been promised to be sent irom Otago to be spent in Southland as soon as the union took place. Such a statement did not come from either of the Commissioners, and there was nothing in the report of the Commissioners tbat would give the least foundation for such a report. There was another question to which the honorable member had referred, namely, the difficulties in connection with the land laws of the Province ef -Southlandr -He (Mr Reynolds) thought everything had, been provided for in the •report of the ; Commissioners. The question had been well considered, and there was no difficulty except to the honorable members who monopolised the whole territory df Southland to the disadvantage of the whole Colony. The honorable A member might rest assured t]^ : if the /onion did take place, it would be an advantage to Southland and Otago. 'It would also be an advantage to hare\ that part of the united Province populated as soon as possible, and that inuaan-sbemgs- should take the place of »feeep, and cattle, and thus reduce the taxation all over the Colony- If they

could double the population of Southland in the course of two or three years—and he believed they could quadruple it — it would reduce the taxation of every man in the Colony. He could see, from the honorable member's argument, that he was representing one class in the Province, of Southland ; but he thought there were other honorable members who represented the class of people who required much more consideration at the hands of the House than the class which the honorable member represented. He rose that early to address the House, because he had taken some little trouble in going over the accounts in connection with Southland, and with a view of giving honorable members for Southland an opportunity of addressing themselves more particularly to the subject of the union. He trusted that the H!ouse would agree to the passing of the Bill as one . which would not only be to the advantage ' of Southland and Otago, but a measure of great colonial advantage, because it would enable the Provinces to increase the population within a very short time. Mr Gillies knew how dangerous it was to meddle in family quarrels, -» and the question before them appeared yery much to be a family quarrel. He might, how ever, be pardoned, and he hoped he would escape censure for meddling in the strife, when he reminded the honorable member for Wallace that some ten years agoj about the same time that the honorable member for Wallace began to spend his capital in Otago, he (Mr Gillies) had entered that House. He had been forced into it, he might say, not through such devious and difficult paths as the honorable member for Wallace, but had been forced into it for the sole purpose of opposing the separation of Southland from Otago. Hemiuht, therefore, be pardoned for_ saying a few words in favor of the re-union of the two Provinces. He sympathised greatly^ with the honorable member fbr Wallace in his earnestness on behalf of his Province. He sympathised with him greatly, because he (Mr Gillies) was then defeated, as he thought the honorable member would now be. He could vindicate the Government from having at all deserted their principles. On that occasion one of his best supporters in preventing the separation of Southland from Otago was the honorable member at the head of the^ Government; although one of his main opponents was an honorable member who was not now in the House, one of the Commissioners. He remembered that at that time the same arguments were used as now, but in a reverse way. In regard to provincialism and colonialism, then called centralism, the same arguments were used, but reversed, as to the effect of splitting up the colony into Httle bits. Then the policy of tbe Government was to split up the Colony into little bits in the name of local self-government, so that the Provincial Governments might become so weak that there should be only one central Government. He never believed in that policy. He did believe in a true colonial policy-— in a true central policy-*-when the proper time came; but he did not believethat time had yet arrived. It was marching on, but it had not yet come, and it seemed to him that this union of Otago and Southland was the first step towards doing it in the right way. His belief was that when the country was so populated from end to end that the natural barriers between the Provinces would be obliterated, then it would become a united Colony ; but not by splitting it up, and so weakening the powers of those who, by their knowledge of local requirements, could best carry on the Government. He believed the time would come when every Province would coalesce with its neighbor, and that was what was being done by the present Bill They must not, however, compel Provinces to coalesce before they were ready for the union. He had no faith at all in those who so constantly apd persistently denounced provincial institutions as an evil. They might be an evil, as were most other things in life, but the best things were worst when they were badly used, and he asserted that the Provinces were a necessary evil. The Assembly might by law abolish the Provinces next day, and might establish other local institutions, calling them by what names it chose, but the thing would be there and that would work locally which could best be locally worked. It was no use calling them bad names, and thereby endeavoring to get rid of them, for exist they must, no matter what they were called. In the case of Otago and Southland, he believed that the facility of communication between them was now infinitely greater than it was in the days when he lived in Otago. He remembered when he travelled through what was now called the Province of Southland, there was not a brick, or a stick, or a stone, where the town of Invercargill now stands. He remembered travelling over that country — a very fine country it was — and it was far distant, and many days* journey; whereas now it was almost at the door of Dunedin. There was, be believed, a coach from Dunedin to the Clutha every day now, but when he made the journey it took two or three days^of bard travelling. The country was now thoroughly opened up; the merchants of one place telegraphed to the merchants of the other; and runholders could sell their wool at whichever place they chose. There were no geographical boundaries between these Provinces, as there were between many others. He said this now, for .he believed at the time of the separation, most thoroughly and earnestly — as thoroughly and earnestly as the honorable member for Wallace now spoke in an opposite direction — that there was no real sound reason for separating the two Provinces. He thought therefore there was less reason now why they should not be reunited, as they would make one strong Province instead of a weak one and a strong one. ' He really could not appreciate the figures of the honorable member for Wallace, who admitted that the Province

t had a debt of £25,000. That could not I mean the total debt of the Province, but ; only the debt which it could not pay. i The total debt was something vastly • greater, and this could only be the portion > which they could not get funds to pay, and which other Provinces were obliged ; to bear for them. If he rightly understood the circumstances of the Province of Southland, instead of being in debt only i to the extent of £25,030, it was in debt to the extent nearly half a million— £438,000, and aftergettingintodebttothat extent, it had a debt of £25,000 which it really could not find anything to pay it with. He called that bankruptcy — to call it by a right name — because it did not seem to him that a man was very solvent who, however much property he might have, could not meet his debts when they came due. On the showing of the honorable member for "Wallace himself, the Province of Southland was insolvent. It might not be in a state of bankruptcy, but it was not in a condition to pay its debts. The honorable gentleman admitted tbat the annual ordinary expenditure was £48,000, and that was a very reasonable expenditure if there was revenue to meet it ; but he stated the ; ordinary revenue to be £29,000, andthat certainly was not a happy state of things.; True, the honorable gentleman said that the average annual land fund for some, three or four- years had been £32,000, which went to make up the difference ; but he (Mr G-illies) did not think that the land revenue ought to be calculated on as against ordinary expenditure. It was like killing the goose with the golden egg, for every acre of land sold was gone, and the Province would soon have no more to sell. On the other hand, the interest on the debt of £438,000 continued, whether the land fund continued or not, and he feared the land fund, if spent at the rate of £32,000 a year, would not last until that was cleared off. It was especially necessary for the Colony to look carefully into this matter in view of the great schemes then before the House, which required that the credit of the Colony should be stretched to the utmost. Under those circumstances he did not think that the land fund could anylonger be looked at as a separate fund. He asserted that the only hope they had to meet the liabilities of the Colony was to pledge the land fund, and honorable members must look to that. The land fund was one of the assets which would represent this immense liability which they were going to undertake, and he was afraid the time would come when the Colony would not be able to pay the interest on its debts without applying the land fund to it. He did not propose to go into the terms of the union at all, as that was a matter for Otago and Southland to settle between themselves, but it did seem to him that it would be very advantageous to both Provinces, and it would be advantageous to the Colony at large, if the two Provinces were reunited. The honorable member for Dunedin City had stated the case very well when he said that one had property which it could not realize to meet its current debt, and the other had capital to spare, and so could make the property of the other productive. So far as the Colony was concerned he looked upon this as the first really honest step towards {forming the Colony. These two Provinces found that their interests were common, and he trusted that by-and-by other Provinces would find it the same : it was far better than chopping them up into little bits. He would cordially support the measure. (lb be continued.)