THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Southland Times, Issue 1276, 8 July 1870, Page 3

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OF BEPRESENTATIYES. TUESDAY, JUtfE 21. TEE VACCINATION BILL. The Hon. Mr Pox said that in moving the second reading of this bill, he misrht ' state that it was an amending act on the 1 onepassedlastsession.andhe felt sure that 1 the efforts of the Government to prevent the ravages of this fell disease among the people would have the support of hon. members and the colony generally. The ' hon. gentleman gave a succinct account : of the rise and progress of vaccination, and contended that the present agitation against arm-to-arm vaccination was contradicted by medical evidence. Mr "Reader Wood said that doctors differed in many things, and on none more than vaccination. In the portion ' of the colony from which he came the theory was gaining ground that the system of vaccination from arm to arm was calculated to introduce worse diseases ■ than the one it was intended to stamp out. 1 (Hear, hear.) So strong was this feeling in the part of the colony from which he came that it would be impracticable to carry the act oat. (Hear, hear.) No Government could carry out the provisions of a law when the people were against it. He held that if the Government introduced a system of compulsory vaccination it was their duty to provide a supply of pure lymph. Mr Bunny hoped the Hon. the Premier wonld agree to allow the bill to be referred to a select committee, so that a bill might be brought in which would meet the wishes of the people of the colony. He would desire to point out the fact that this act would not work at all well in country districts, and sparsely populated portions of the colony, as a child might have to be brought some forty miles to be ' vaccinated, incurring the danger and expense of a long journey, and then a week afterwards would have to be brought down again for examination. He trusted that the Government wonld see their way clear to allow the bill to be referred to a select committee. Mr Carleton aaid be felt sure the House ought to feel obliged to the hon. member at the head of the Government for the very lucid account of the rise and progress of vaccination with which the hon. member at the head of the Government had furnished them ; but he should have liked to hare heard a little more information as to the working of the bill. He thought it was the bounden duty of the Government to provide a proper supply of puTe lymph. There was another point be shouldliketoseeinthisbill, which, was merely a question of money, and that 1 was that the vaccinator should visit the • child, and not the child the vaccinator. He pressed these two points on the attention of the Government. Mr Travers said he should support this bill in all its stages, as he held it was the duty of the State to take all necessary precautions against the introduction of disease amongst us. With respect to what had fallen from other hon. members* he might state that in hiaopinion it would be necessary to appoint inspectors in the outlying districts to see that the provisions of the act were duly carried out. Mention had also been made of a sort of panic which existed in another portion of the colony respecting vaccination. He would, point out that a report to the House of Commons, from high medical authority, presented in 1867, completely controverted this idea. The greatest difficulty in the way of legislation on this subject was the ignorance of the people. There was one point in the bill, however, to which he took exception, and that was the mixing up of General and Provincial ; Government functions. In this case particularly the results might be exceedingly mischievous. Supposing for instance that a province or provinces was unwilling or unable to vote the sums necessary for the efficient working of this act, or that a number of members had been returned to the council pledged to oppose this act, and therefore refused to vote funds, the probability would be that that frightful scourge, the small pox, would not be confined to that province, but would overrun the whole colony. Respecting the penalties he would make them far heavier, and not only that, but instead of fining a parent 40s" for the neglect of his duty, he would make the fine continuous from month^ to month and year to year. He did not think that the ignorant prejudices of the people should be allowed to weigh for one instant in the question before the House. lie would refer all those who were sceptical on this point to Dr Akeman's " Practice of Medicine," in which the subject was ably and fully treated. He did not think it necessary at all that the vaccinators should be medical men, but care should be taken that they were competent for the duties. Mr Mervyn hoped the Government would accede to the request of the hon. member for "Wairarapa (Mr Bunny), and refer the bill to a select committee, as he felt sure that in its present state the provisions of the bill would never be carried out in the country districts of the colony. Mr Gillies.said that he had no sympatby with those who opposed vaccination, and he agreed with the hon. member for ; Christchurch city (Mr Travers) that it . should be compulsory, but he must pro- , test against the colony being compelled i to swallow English acts wholesale, with , little or no adaptation to the wants and > interests of the colony. ; The Hon. J. C. Eichmond was of ' opinion that it would be wise to print i portions of the medical report to the 1 House of Commoni on this question, and i distribute it among the people, which would tend greatly to allay the fears . which had arisen on this subject. He c thought that the difficulty of enforcing ', the provisions of the bill arose simply ■ from want of money, as he himself knew i a province where the present bill had ' broken down from want of necessary ; funds. The Hon. Mr Pox said he was glad to

see that the general opinion of the House was in favor of compulsory vaccination. He was quite prepared to accede to the request of the hon. member for Wairarapa to refer the bill to a select committee, and would give notice to-morrow for its appointment. He believed that the fears of the people in the northern portion of the colony were not well founded, as the highest medical authorities concurred in the opinion that the most beneficial effects resulted from vaccination. The second reading of the bill was then carried on the voices, and on the motion of the Hon. Mr Fox, referredto a seleiSt committee.

WEDNESDAY, JUSE 22. HCHTOBABITTM TO MEMBEB3. Mr J- C. Wilson «sked the hon. member at the head of the Government, whether he purposes to bring in a bill this session for doing away with all honorarium in future sessions, or failing that, to -fix a sum hot exceeding £50 for the members of the Housa of Represent tatives only ? The hon. member at the head of the Government had promised last session that he would bring the matter forward. The Hon. Mr Pox said that the Government had given its attention to the matter, but they did not see their way to its entire abolition. If this were adopted it would be the means of depriving the country of the services of some of its ablest men, who were not, as was the case at home, men of means. At the same time, if any hon. member: brought the matter forward, the Government would offer no opposition. BE-ADJUSTMENT OT BEPBESEKTATIOW. Mr Haughton asked the Hon. the De« , fence Minister whether it was the intention of the Government, in the consideration of the re-adjustment of the representation of the colony, to propose the repeal of the Maori Representation Act ? The Hon. Mr McLean. said that when the question of the re-adjustment of the representation was before the House, the ; Government would ben a position to answer the question of the hon. member. ■\ ' "I THE BALLOT.' !' i The Hon. Mr ¥ox, in moving the second reading of this bill, said he might mention that the bill was one for the : introduction of the ballot. The bill had> already passed the House, but had been 1 thrown out by the Upper House. It was similar in its machinery to the one in Victoria, which had been found to work admirably, and he felt sure it.would be of great advantage to the colony. w x Mr Carleton said he hoped to hear some discussion on this bill. For his own part he should vote against the measure on principle. If they admitted the expediency of the ballot, he should like to know why it was wanted to introduce it here. The hon. member at the rhead of the Government had told them that it was not secrecy which the bill aimed at ; well, if secrecy was not the object sought, the real object might be attained in other ways. The masses had , no absolute right to the franchise ; their right was to be well governed. He contended that the ballot would-open- the door for pettymalice. . Mr Hall said he did not see why the franchise should be given to a corrupt man and denied to a virtuous and respectable woman. (Hear, hear.) He should oppose the bill because he did not think it secured secrecy of voting. It was a boon to a rascal who would say he would vote one way and would do so another. The hon. the Premier had said that in Australia it was a success, but, according to reliable testimony, those who had been elected were not the ablest or the most respectable of the community. He would vote against the measure as not being calculated to secure what was proposed. Mr O'Neill said that the hon. member who had spoken last had said that the ballot had not been successful in Victoria. Now, at a very large meeting in' London, an old colonist had stated that the ballot had been in use in New South Wales for many years, and had been attended with the best results. He looked upon the ballot as protecting the poor from the wealthy. (Oh, oh !) He would therefore heartily support the bill. The hon. member for the Bay of Islands had referred to the Thames elections as disgraceful, but that election was quiet in comparison with elections in England, Ireland, or Scotland.: He asserted that the election at the Thames was a most peaceful and lamb-like proceeding. (Laughter) . He thought this was due to the people of the Thames, who were, he stated, the most peaceable and moral in the Colony. . ...... Mr Bunny said that until something had been brought forward to show that their present system of elections was not a proper one, he should vote consistently against the ballot. Mr Harrison instanced, several occur, rences of the election of a member for Nelson goldfields in the Council as a reason for the change of 'procedure in the conduct of elections. Mr M'lndoe was of opinion that the ballot was a means of affording amanan opportunity to record his vote according to nis conscience. He did not approve of the system, but the necessities of the case forced it upon him to give his vote for the measure. ■ : Mr Reader Wood said he was aware that the House wished to have this matter settled. He might state that he should; vote for the measure if it came to a division. He trusted that the House would bear with him for a few minutes. All hon. members had gone through contested elections, and his hon. friend the; member for. the Bay of Islands ; had told them that he had a great affection for truth, but he thought very little truth was apparent under the present system. He might say there was no necessity for the vote to be secret. The straightforward British man whom they had heard so much about might declare to the world how he had voted. (Mr Carleton : If he was believed). The ballot had been introduced' into America and Australia, and

he had no doubt but that its introduction into England was only a question of time. He did not think it was an absolute panacea, but it would act as a remedial measure and prevent many ills which occurred at elections under the present system. He should vote for the bill. Mr Reynolds said that he was glad to gee that the member for the Bay of Islands had half conceded that the ballot was a good measure-^-as a measure ,of expediency. The arguments of the hon. member for Heatheote were scarcely Worthy of reply. He brought forward toe old stock argument . of the franchise being a trust. '[Mr Hall i It has not ibeen answered.] It had been answered times out of number. Ho would only express his gratitude to the Government for having brought forward this measure. Mr Creightoh supported the bill, and advocated the abolition of nomination and show of hands at elections. The Hon. Mr J. C. Bichard«on said if it came to a division he should vote with those who were of opinion that this act would be an encumbrance on the Statute Book. He had read an account in an English paper of a machine by the use of < which no one could recognise the voter at the time, and if he attempted to vote twice the machine [An hon. member: Knocked him down]. Well, not exactly knocked him down, but rendered it impracticable. It should not be forgotten when the bill went into committee that great powers were conferred upon the officers appointed to conduct the election, and their duties should be hedged rpund as much as possible — and great 'care should be exercised in the selection of these officers. Mr Gillies; said he should- not; go; into the arguments for and against the bill. With respect to the fears of the hon. member for Grey and Bell, he might inform him that the ballot had been in operation in New Zealand,' and that it was impossible to ascertain the state of the poll until the declaration. "With respect to the officers under the ballot, they would not be worse than they were now, and as regarded them, they would be under the scrutiny of the agents of the candidates, who would see that the elector received only one ticket, that he was ithe-man-on the roll; the elector would then go into a private room and deposit his vote, and there was an end of it. He believed that the system possessed many advantages over-the-present one. As to thestraightforward, honest, British voting, it assumed an ideal state of things which he had no faith in. He should vote in favor of the ballot. Mr Borlase. said he, had given, a hesitating assent to the ballot, but now he was prepared to give his hearty consent to it. As regarded his constituents, he might say that they did not want the ballot ; they would return a, poor man as soon as the richest merchant in^New Zealand if they thought he was worthy of it. He should support the measure cordially. - . -• . . „ ; Mr Eolleston said he should not' like the question to go to tfce vote without 'expressing his intention to adhere to the course pursued by him last 1 session, and vote against the ballot. He did not think that any nation in which men required to be protected in performing their plain duty .wonld.be a prosperous one. He thought it was a lamentable thing that they had to invent machinery to exercise their privileges as citizens. He held that it was true what Dr Arnold had stated, that men were very much what you make them, and if treated as incapable of exercising their judgment, their moral muscles would become relaxed as much as those of the body. He deplored this as a step backwards in legislation. Mr Stafford said he should not have spoken on* the question but for what had fallen from the hon. member who had Jjuat sat down. He (Mr Stafford), as one of the majority, denied Lthat the conviction at which he had arrived to support the ballot was dictated by expediency; He did not know whether the hon. member was or was not an opponent of democracy, but he took leave to say that democracy would be the guiding principle of public affairs in all civilised nations in the future. He thought that if the ballot was a development of democracy it behoved them to guide it into the best channels for the greatest good to the greatest number. He had been a consistent supporter of the ballot for twenty-five years, and he thought it would be productive of great good. ? The Hon. Mr Fox said he wouldcongratulate the House on the unanimity on the subject which had pervaded the debate. He was sorry to hear the first speech on the opposition, which was made by the hon. member for the Bay of Islands — who had indulged in that offensive practice for which the hon. member had become noted — and that was that he, set himself up as the only member in the House who had advocated the cause of truth. In the words of Shakespeare, he might say — " Methinks he doth protest too much.'? But there was 1 another thing that he thought should be visited by the House with reprobation, as coming from one who was the father of the House — a thing by the bye of which he was very fond of informing them, and as a high officer of that House, and that was the remark that hon. members did not represent the constituencies who had sent them there, except perhaps the member for the Bay of Islands ; and another thing was that he had characterised that House as being composed of adventurers and professional politicians. [Mr Carleton : I meant those who conducted, the ..elections.] Well, he was very glad the hon. member had cleared himself of a portion of the blame attaching to him for making such a stater ment. He trusted that the hon. member for Dunedin (Mr Reynolds) would receive the reward of' lad fightihg^so^iany and wearisome battles on behalf or the ballot by seeing it the law of the land. The second reading of j. thejbill was

carried on the voices, and it was ordered 'to be committed next day. x PTTNISHMEITr 0* HIGH TBEASOH" BILL. On the motion of Mr Fox the House went into Committee on this bill, Mr Carleton in the chair, when it passed through Committee without amendment, was reported to the House, read a third . time, and passed.