THE REUNION DEBATE.

Southland Times, Issue 1178, 8 December 1869, Page 2

THE REUNION DEBATE.

(Continued from last issue.) Mr Webster, after paying a very high tribute to the hon. member, Mr Toshack, who had preceded him, for the temperate and able manner in which he had made out a case for re-union, said he much regretted that his motion had not been consented to, so that the facts might have been discussed on fair terms. As between himself and othei-s, there could be no doubt but that inclinations differed ; but on fair argument, with correct facts, although conclusions might differ, there would be no bitterness. In the absence of the committee for which he had asked, he had employed himself in getting such information as he could. He had availed himself of tabular statements, and all the sources at his command, and he had been led to a different conclusion to that of Mr Johnston. His (Mr Webster's) proclivities were known, and he could not prevent a certain tendency to wish to remain separate and independent. On account of these proclivities, he very much regretted the absence of authoritative statements, and there were others in the same position with himself as to facts on which to argue. Mr Johnston had perhaps put the question fairly, but an advocate is generally blind from some point of view. He would refer to the returns of the province, excluding the returns of . all transactions since May last, because since then matters, from various causes, had been disorganised. The land revenue had been disorganised -by the setting apart land for the construction of a railway ;' 'although he (Mr W.) admitted he would rather have seen a good metal road. Then =£13,000 to £15,000 had been sent away to purchase machinery, and then there was the debt for freight. All these were exceptional matters, but it was to them our present difficulty is due. He thought the fair way of dealing with the difficulty was to obtain permission to capitalise our debt. He thought we had a right to this, as our present liabilities were in reality made necessary by the original debt for the purpose of completing and utilising that for which the original debt had been incurred. The previous investment was literally dead without it. If a man had built a large house minus the kitchen, he would be justified in borrowing money to complete it by the erection of the kitchen, as then the property would become valuable— it might be let. We, as a province, were in that position. We were compelled to spend money to make what had already been spent of any use to us, and therefore he contended that the ,£35,000 outstanding debt on these accounts ought to be capitalised, and we had a perfect right to ask it. He would refer to the revenue for the years '67 and '68, and to the first six months of 1869, and would regard them as giving an average which was likely to be maintained. He did not profess to come within a hundred pounds or so, but thought himself near enough for practical purposes — Eevenue. Land ; £35,000 per annum General Revenue 12,000 Miscellaneous 10,000 Total £57,000 Average* Expenditure. Interest £26,000 per annum Provincial Expenses 13,000 Total £39,000 showing a balance in favor of the province of, say £18,000. Mr Johnston says : " We must hav^e J£20,000 to carry on with." Certainly that sum had not Seen spent yet, and the estimates only provided for <£ 16,000. The average was not really more than £13,000 ; and thus, if the debt could 'be capitalised, we were really well-to-do with a revenue ample and a surplus. Further, if the <£15,000 paid for railway plant had not been paid Mr Caldee — This was given out of interest and sinking fund, and was obliged to be appropriated to the payment for plant. Mr Webster — Well, it was sent away, and the land fund for the time being was diverted to a special purpose, and this proves that had it not been for these special works which, perhaps, after all were not justifiable, we should have been in so much the better position. He believed in small farmers putting up with brush fence and hut until their means would enable them to do better ; but, if the means were at command, good work was always the cheapest. He had already said he thought a metal road would have done us more good than the railroad ; but it was of no use saying that now. To preserve an independent existence was an honorable ambition. Last year, as had been shown, was an exceptional year, and we ought not to make it the reason for such a conclusion as that which had been drawn from it — it formed no argument for re-union. To return to the railway question for a minute — we had 40 miles of railway completed. One of the Otagan Commissioners (Mr Gillies), stated that it cost Otago .£SOO per annum per mile on the main (Taieri) road for road maintenance. It is easy to see what an advantage the rail gives, and what we are entitled to take credit for. Supposing we set clown the cost of 49 miles of road at half the cost of that in Otago, the possession of the rail saves us .£IO,OOO, and, in addition, gives us the sum paid as rental, another .£2OOO. He (Mr Webster) did not feel inclined to pursue

the subject further — the strongest argument that had been adduced in favor of re-union had been the deep depression— the paralysed state of the province. He admitted local depression, but denied that general depression existed. The country generally was not as represented. Tradespeople and farmers, apart from Government, were. prosperous; labor was well paid — there was plenty of employment — capital was flowing into the province, and improvements were, going on. He came here a stranger between three and four years since, having been in Otago some 10 years back. He liked Southland, and had invested all his means in the province. He had heard no convincing argument to induce him to do other than vote for our separate and independent existence as a province.