THURSDAY, NOV. 25.

Southland Times, Issue 1171, 26 November 1869, Page 2

THURSDAY, NOV. 25.

The Speaker took the chair at noon. Present — Messrs Johnston (Speaker), Menzies, Steuart, Basstian, Lyons, Dalrymple. Kinross, Toshack, Wilson, Calder, . M'Gillivray, Petchell, Daniel, Lumsden, J M'Neill, Webster, Macdonald, and Gil|low. The minutes of the previous sitting were read and confirmed. MESSAGE FROM HIS HONOR. A message from the Superintendent, confirming the resolution of the Council to adopt the Standing Bules and Orders previously in force was received and read. Several notices of motion having been tabled, Mr Wilson brought up and moved the adoption of the following REPLY TO HU HONOR'S ABDRES9. " The Council agrees with your Honor that its meeting on this occasion posseses peculiar importance. "The Council regrets the continued, and of late greatly increased, financial embarrassment of the province, and concurs with your Honor that vigorous and decisive action is absolutely necessary in the preseril; crisis.' ' ' " Xhe i Council regrets to learn from your Honor's address that the jfloating liabilities "amount to such , a very large sum, and that the salaries "of the public servants are so long in arrear, and that the revenue from all sources is wholly insufficient to provide for the debt charges, and at the same time satisfactorily carry out the functions of Government. . 7" The' .Council ( i fully ; > recognizes the necessity of calmly, reviewing our present position, and Of 'giving the most serious attention and mature consideration to the Commissioners' report on reunion wrth Otago, 'or any remedial measure that may be suggested, and trusts that the action now taken ' tday at the earliest possible, period ■ lead to permanent relief from' bur present humiliating position. "The^ Council hopes tbat its deliberations may be so guided as to be pro- < '(J lasting- []be>— efifc -fx>- .the people of this part of the Colony. " James Wilson, Chairman." Mr- Lumsden remarked that the select committee appeared $° have dealt very gently with the Address, which was of a peculiarly gentle nature. He had never seen a discourse so> well adapted to the text which might have been taken from the old saying, " give a dog a bad name and hang him," the purport of the whole , ; document (the Address) being " give the Province a bad name and hang it." The . . copy__of_ the Address-he (Mr L) had been furnished with, did not contain the amount of floating liability — the Press, . however, appeared better informed ori the subject than he was, and stated it at £35,000. Would the Government be g<>od enough to enlighten him as to the items comprised in the amount ? It seemed to him that they had tried to put the worst face possible on the matter. He would ask them whether the £35,000 was made np of claims all pressing for immediate settlement, as those were the ones in which the public was. most.. con. cerned.- For his own p rt,' he Relieved they were not, and that the really pressing items would make up only a comparatively small amount. Some of them, he knew, might have been settled before this date — Campbell and Robertson's £2000 for instance, about which the hon. member for Invercargill (Mr Calder) mi^ht perhaps give'soine explanation. He would also ask on what authority the statement as to the excess of emigration over in - migration was made ? Last year showed a balance of 171 in favor of the province, and therefore so far as 1868 wis concerned, something was stated that was not true. His Honor, in the address*, called on the Council "to devise the best means of extrication," &c, but went on to state a foregone conclusion — that there were only two courses /men — taxation or re-union. He (Mr L.) thought there might have been a third course open, but it seemed to him that the Government, relying on a majority, virtually said it would be useless to suggest any other means ; therefore, it seemed absurd to ask them to devise the best means. As to the " years of pressure " spoken of in the Address, he did not know what was alluded to. Southland had been really less taxed than any other province. The truth was that she was not more depressed than any of the other provinces which suffered from the want of more population. - An -Otago— newspaper — he (Mr L.) had been reading, spoke of New Zealand as altogether in an unhealthy , state. as regarded immigration, an addition of 6000 only having been made to ihe colony in 1868,. while in some '■ places, notably the West Coast, the figures were altogether against. Otago was more favorably situated, but there only 600 adults i had been added tc-< the population by immigration in 1868. The light in which the papers regarded the . depression, was that it affected the colony as a whole, and he did not think the position of Southland was so exceptional as to warrant the act of political suicide tbat his Honor, as head of the government, shut them up ,Xo,'. ' : '.'...* "•■ ■ -; •■■;••!••» 'y The Hon. Dr Menzies said' the custom had been to hurry forward the Beply to the Address as a mere formality, but on the present occasion — as it contained controversial/ matter — he thought the custom might be better honored in the breach than by observance. There were some words in the Beply that he con-

siderel objectionable, and should be glad to see altered before it was passed by the House. His Honor's a Idress appeared to him simnly an exh >rta ion to effect re-union as quickly as possible, but there were, however, a few points he (Or M.) wished to remark on. The Address said " the Government consi lers it their duty to state their views without reserve," but it went on to state something more, viz., that the Government views were the only ones that could possibly be arrived at by the Council — ■ indicating, in fact, that the opinion of a majority was in favor of a pirticular course, and therefore uot leaving: room to devise " other means." Two courses, it wib said, were open — taxation or reunion — but he held that re-union with Otago m°ant taxation whether they would or not. The hon member proceedel to point out that the Bluff Harbor departmental retrenchment wa* , the work of a Government of which Mr Calder was a member, and went on to say that the Address contained an extraordinary blunder, proving to him that it was not the work of the Supejiatendent, who was known as a statistician. He referred to the statement respect ni emigration and immigration, which, as had been shown by Mr Lumsden, was in error for 1867, and as the published statistics proved for 1868 also, the population, allowing for the excess of births over deaths, being but little short of 1000 greater than stated. As to the " crushing burden of debt," he had thought that fallacy was disposed of by the ventilation of the subject ou a previous occasion. There were also assertions made tbat the Council really had no knowledge of tbe amount of the floating liabilities of the province for instance, and he should suggest the insertion of the words "the Council regrets to learn from your Honor that the floating liability," Ac. He hoped the Government would as soon as possible give a clear detailed statement of the financial position of the province. Some of the words in the latter part of the address, he thought, might have been omitted with advantage — but he should have something to say by and bye about the report. He really could not account for the constant tendency of some hon. members to heap dust and ashes on their owu heads, or keep up the cry of " stale fish," or parading wounds and bruises to extort sympathy ; and concluded by moving the alteration Sreviously noted. Motion agreed to, and 'eply thereafter adopted on the voices. THB IF PBOFB.IA.TIO.S' ORDINANCE No. 2. Mr Caldeb, in asking leave to bring in a Bill entitled as above, stated that in March last, when the previous Appropriation Ordinance was brought in, he had expressed the opinion, that the finances of the province were not in a good condition — nor did he draw a hopeful picture of the future. In fact his statement was at the time characterised as gloomy, dark, j foreboding, &c, but it was not so dark as the reality had proved. He never had looked at things in the same light as the hon. member for Invercargill (Dr Menzies) ; he had never pretended to s^e the sun when all was darkness, or that things were in a flourishing condition when the reverse was the case. He held that it was best not to bolster np the position of the province by such means, for, when they asked relief they would be referred to the statements of great resources, and be told, " why do you not develope them and help yourselves." Those glowing statements had an evil tendency — the simple truth was preferable. Ho believed if they had told the General Assembly of the real state of the province, evea last session, it would have so dealt with the affairs of the province as to have afforded some relief. A though the Government in March last took the. view they did, they endeavored to retrieve the position of the province by the most unsparing retrenchments — that met, however, anything but fair cooperation on the part of the head of the Government. Of those retrenchments he should not then speak farther than to say that one — the leasing of the railway — effected a saving of at least £3000 per annum — how much more he was not prepared to say, for the expense of the line had been increasing to such an extent that it was hard to tell where it would have stopped. The Bluff Harbor they had touched with tbe greatest reluctance, and the Council would no doubt agree with the Government that in the state things were, they should nob for a hundred pounds or so impair the efficiency of an important branch of the public service. He regretted that the revenue for the year ending in June would, according to their estimate, be comparatively small, and for a reason that he would explain. In April last, a difference arose between the Superintendent and the Executive on the question of payment of the railway contractors. The Executive held that, according to the plain terms of the contract, they were not bound to make their election to pay in land or cash till the completion of the contract ; and on the ground that it would bring the railway land into competition with Crown land, to the detriment of the public interest, they declined to make their election. That Executive waß got rid of and election to pay ia land was soon after made by their successors. The consequence was that foreseen by the dismissed Executive. Land sales fell off — in July, only £211; August, £240; September, £141 ; and October, £526 was received from that source, or a little over £1100 in four months. Yet the Government that, in defence of the public interest, took up the position he had described, was abused right and left. It was then the time to state to the Council that many of the liabilities had been incurred in consequence of the action of that Government having been disallowed by the Superintendent. The total amount to be provided for was in round numbers £37^000— the estimated revenue about £20,000. If a deficiency of that nature did not warrant the course proposed in the estimation of the hon. member, Mr Lumsden, then .nothing would convince him — for the sums included in the Ordi-

nance were simply for amounts due, and to car.-y on the public service — no new worKs were co.itomplated, with the exception of the Woodlands road, which, as hon. members were aware, waa undertaken tor the s;j<>ciil purpose of localising an important industry, c>lculated to advance fie iit '.rests, not only of a class, but of the province generally. The fun Is for the work were to ba provided by the sale of 5000 acres of land, pursuant to an arrangement endorsed by the General Government, the precise terms of which, and the correspondence, he had not yet found time to read. An item of £850 12s also required explaaati m. An agreement was m:ide with Mr John Morrison, who undertook to send out emigrants to the extent that £5000 passage money would reach, and take payment in land. Subsequently, the late Superintendent, while in Wellington, cancelled (by lector) that agree- , ment, whereon Mr Morrison applied for the £850 as due for emigrants already sent out. The agreement, he might state, was still in exist -nee, an I it was possible that the Superintendent's _ letter of cancellation was illegal — seeing that it was written without the advice and consent of an Executive — but for a reason thit he would state, it was expedient to make the payment applied for by Mr Morrison — or rufcher place hint in the same position as other public creditors. It was this. In 1868, the province had the land in its own hands to deal with— the interest for that year was capitalised but that was no longer the case. A contingent sum to Campbell and Eobertson, as creditors of the Town Board, and the Bank of New South Wales for commission of one per cent, ou sale of debenture*, was inserted to place those claims in a position to be legally dealt with. Both sums had been acknowledged by the 1 Council, although he was not personally satisfied of the justice of either, aud Dr Knighthadalready objected tooneof them. The reason these amouts were not placed on the estimates last session was, that it would unnecessarily swell the estimates, but it was now in view of a certain event desirable to have them appear on the estimates. This by no means made up the whole of the claims that might be in existence, indeed, it was quite possible that a short session would be requisite hereafter to consider and place them in such a legal shape that none should suffer. He had not much more to say, further than that although the province had been singularly favored by successive colonial governments, hebelieved that at the present tiim further assistance could not be expected, and that the only wav to carry on tbe most important parts of the provincial machinery, police, gaol, and harbors,, would be — if re-union were agreed to by Southland and Otago —to appeal to the General Government for temporary assistance, pending the carrying into effect of the change proposed. He deemed it right to say this much to the House — to place it in full possession of the hopes, the fears, and the course proposed by the Government, so that none might say there was concealment. There wa<», of course, no scheme of expenditure to sketch, there being none contemplated Mr Webstek enquired whether Mr Calder could state what the claims he bad alluded to as pending were, or their probable amount ? Mr Calder explained that several early purchasers of land in the province had claimsagainstthe Government, on account of certain infringements of the original conditions, amounting to about £800 ; there were also, he believed, several other sums to come in. SHEEP BILL. Mr Stetja.rt obtained leave to bring in a Bill entitled the " Sheep Ordinance, 1866, Amendment Ordinance, 1869," and its first reading was ordered for this morning's sitting. On the motion of Mr Wilson, the House adjourned at 1.30 until 7.30 p.m.