PUBLIC MEETING.

Southland Times, Issue 1145, 11 October 1869, Page 2

PUBLIC MEETING.

DR MENZIES AT THE THEATRE ROYAL. The Hon. Dr Menzies, one of the candidates for the representation of the town in the Provincial Council, met the electors of Invercargill in the Theatre Royal, on Friday evening last, Bbh inst., the lower part of the house being crowded. On the motion of Mr J. W. Mitchell, seconded by Mr Garthwaite, Mr Harvey was voted to the chair. The chairman, in introducing the speaker, said they had met for the purpose of hearing Dr Menzies' opinions on the important political topics of the day. He was glad to see such a large gathering, as it indicated a lively interest in public affairs, and trusted that not only Dr Menzies, but others, who might have questions to ask, or remarks to make, would get a fair and impartial hearing. The Hon. Dr Menzies, who was received with cheering, then came forward, and said he had again to thank the electors for the honor they conferred on him by asking him once more to become one of their representatives. The times were critical. Questions would require to be considered in the coming Council of greater importance than had ever come before any previous one. The state of the province was such that many feared it would never recover. There were no funds available for public works, and, although this was not the most correct criterion of the state of the province, it was the most obvious one, and therefore attracted most directly the consideration of the people. There was one thing, however, which he regretted to observe, and which he considered of far greater moment than a temporary want of funds, and that was a very noticeable and general feeling of want of confidence in our prospects. That of itself was a serious bar to progress. Nothing could be more detrimental than this, as when men lost hope they were incapacitated for carrying on cheerfully their ordinary pursuits. Several remedies had been proposed, but he would confine himself first and chiefly to the most prominent, as its consideration would also bring out subsidiary schemes. The remedy which some advocated, with all apparent sincerity, was re-union to Otago. This was a most serious question, and dealt with issues altogether beyond the scope of the Provincial Council. The aspect of the question from this point of view — the colonial one — was most important, but the Council had not power to deal with this part of the question. He was convinced from experience that to add to the power of Otago in the General Assembly would be most injurious to the interests of the colony. He need not, however, enter at length upon this part of the subject ; what we had to consider now was the aspect of the question with regard to its effect upon Southland. The views of the re-unionists might be considered as embodied in the report of the commissioners which had been published, and on which he would comment. The terms of that report were evidently based upon the provisions of the Bill which had been thrown out in the ' Assembly. They were illiberal, and not nearly so equitable or favorable to Southland as the Bill itself was. For instance, clause 7 of the commissioners, basis of union provided that the laws of the two provinces should be the laws now in force in Otago, except the Land Eegulations, the whole to be subject to alteration by the United Council, whereas the Bill had secured to Southland a continuation of existing laws. Clause 8, which provided that the " laws be assimilated by united Provincial Council as soon as possible, saving all existing rights under existing laws of both provinces," was a curious one. The commissioners could not surely take credit for regarding existing rights, seeing that was a matter which belonged

to, and came under tne protection of, the common law —^the commissioners had nc power to deal injuriously or otherwise with existing rights. In dealing with the boundaries, the commissioners proposed to include , a portion of Otago iv the future district of Southland, but it was not made clear what land laws were to be in operation in that annexed portion. As the Southland laws were to remain in force in what was no\v Southland, and the whole increased district was to be administered by a Land Board at Invercargill, it appeared probable that the same Board would have to act under two distinct and conflicting codes of land laws. Such an absurdity as that would speedily attract attention, and required only to be pointed out to ensure remedy by the legislative action of the Council. What direction that action might take, was however, a serious matter. With regard to the Eegristrar's Department, that was also entirely a General Government affair. With reference to the provision for the future redistribution of the representation, it was very material to know whether it would be based upon population, or upon revenue, as the two would have a widely different effect. The commissioners, in pointing out some of the benefits they considered would accrue to Southland from union, considered her indebtedness to the General Government as the cause of the " present comparative stagnation of trade, the crippled state of her finances, and the inability, consequently, of carrying out provision for rapid and easy communication with outlying districts, excepting by a ruinous sacrifice of her landed estate." He differed with the concluding portion of the sentence, for any outlay which produced "rapid and easy communication " could not be ruinous. The present; outstanding liabilities were, doubtless, a cause of much of the present embarrassment, and by paying these, Otago would, no doubt, give us immediate relief ; but this was not enough. The commissioners had commented on the natural wealth of the district, which would conduce to make the united province flourish, but he would remind them that we might as well secure the full benefit of out own resources by developing them ourselves. He was glad to find the Otago commissioners acknowledge that a large portion of that province came naturally within the geographical and commercial limits of Southland. Referring to the assertion that union would give greater facilities for road-making, he said, no doubt the Otago Roads Ordinance had worked well, but the Southland one, if carried out with spirit, was as good, in fact he believed its principles were better. In Otago the Central Board, at Dunedin, had the power of suppressing district boards, and of appointing a commissioner with full powers in its place ; in Southland, Government interference was limited to the work being carried out under their own engineer, purely as a scientific man, and to the withholding of the subsidy in cases where the engineer was of opinion the money was not being properly spent. This system he thought more in harmony with the spirit of a free people (cheers.) The report as a whole was intensely vague, a clear admission that ' the commissioners could do nothing but recommend certain things to their respective Councils, which in turn would have again to refer them to the Assembly. There was no guarantee that any one of the proposals would be adhered to. The whole thing simply amounted to an expression of good will and good wishes on the part of commissioners as individuals. He was almost certain that most of the terms would be warmly contested in the Otago Council, and probably in the new Council here also. It was also noticeable that while the commissioners expatiated upon the presumable benefits Southland would derive, nothing was said of the advantages Otago would secure by re-union. One obvious advantage was the easy access a large portion of her present population would then have to port, but even this was only hinted at. He considered the whole basis, as it was called, amounted simply to this : — " The commissioners think Southland should be absorbed, and drop to an outlying district." He would advert to a few of the benefits Otago would gain. Two years ago Southland's landed estate was valued at one million sterling, the valuation having been made for the information of the Assembly when discussing the railway question. Land had been sold since then, but the enhanced value of what remained, and the increased pastoral rents and assessments, would maintain the original estimate. She would also gain the asset on which our money has been spent — the railway — which was of great latent value. Ultimately, as population increased, and as the lines themselves were extended, tapping, as they should, a large portion of Otago, the owners of the railways, whoever they might then be, would find themselveajin possession of a property yielding a very handsome revenue. She would also gain direct easy access to her territory on the eastern bank of the Mataura. This district found its natural outlet at Invercargill, and suffered by being joined to Otago. When the railway question was before the House, Otago members discouraged the idea of our making a line in that direction ; the inference clearly being that she wished to hold us in check until she could, by a line from the Clutha, herself tap the district from the Dunedin side. Another advantage of the utmost magnitude, was that Otago would gain possession of a splendid harbor. He was assured by more than one captain that the state of the entrance to Port Chalmers was becoming critical even for a steamer, through silting up. As there was no danger of such a thing occurring with the Bluff Harbor, it became an enviable acquisition. Finally, the additional political power she would gain, by an accession of four more members in the Assembly, was a great matter, and was

no doubt the miinspri'ig, ih; Otigb's movement for annexation. He could not see any beuefit accruing to Southland, but all the other way. Dhe commissioners themselves say theirevenue and expenditure for each of tie districts, Otago and Southland, " should be kept separate, as a matter of account," and if so, where was the advantage of re-union. The difficulty now was, that our revenue left no margin for public works, and if our expenditure was still to be based upon revenue, in what better position would we be ? Certainly it was proposed to give something now, but he did not believe assistance would extend beyond the first bonus ; the other districts, in which the revenue was raised, would never consent to their money being spent here. Under the Roads Endowment Act of 1868, Otago was bound to devote forty per cent, of her land revenue to roads, and she had been in the habit of giving two pounds to every one pound raised by districts for this purpose. Last year, however, she had to reduce the proportion. Thus Southland would only obtain for road- making that to which she, with other districts, was entitled in proportion to her land revenue, and even to secure that the districts would have to resort to self-taxation. It would be folly to trust to anything beyond our i bare legitimate share being given us i after the first bonus — the first ! burst of generosity. He thought the advocates for re-union had raised hopes which could not be realized, and which, supposing union were consummated, being disappointed, would but embitter subsequent discontent and remorse. In short, the district would find itself in the same position as it was before separation.' Statements had been made of Otago's liberality to other districts, and they had not been contradicted, although easily refuted. He might instance Oaraaru, which out of a land revenue of £300,000 or £400,000, had only got some £45,030 B pent in public works — far short of what it was entitled to. Or take the district in which he himself resided. It was treated with the greatest neglect, until the inhabitants remonstrated, when out of a revenue of £20,000, they were grudgingly given £2,000. Seeing that the outlying districts of the province of Otago complained that they were badly used, the question then wai whether Southland could expect to fare better than Oamaru? He (Dr M.) thought not, considering that Oatuaru was a better producing district than any other in Otago. He thought that the published terms left us in the same position as before, there was no solution of our difficulty, and no guarantee that if the conditions were accepted they would be carried out. The advantage assumed, of relief from immediate pressure, by the payment of our debt, was all we could gain by the project, and as some time must elapse betore this could be done, we should have in some way or other to meet our difficulties. If we succeeded, we did not need Otago. The real difficulty j. was) to tide over the present emergency, to provide for present debts, to carry on public works ana give a stimulus to production. Was this posssible? he (Dr M.) might ask ; and would answer " yes, with a strong government, and no bickerings," especially with the value of the particular asset at their disposal, and its effect on the resources of the province, The great question was to develope latent resources, and to increase general prosperity, and the true policy was to increase the value of the railway, by the addition of other lines. If good roads tended to bring laud into cultivation, railways did much more in that way, and in addition to the increased cultivation by small holders, we should obtain the benefit of the Agricultural Company's operations, if the railroad, were agreed to be constructed to the MaUura. There would be a larger traffic on the Bluff line ; from £30,000 to £40,000 additional per annum would be spent in the town ; and an important district wouldbe tapped. In his own district settlers had been deterred from operating by the carriage cost, and by railroad extension agricultural operations would be carried on whereat present they were but thought of. The province was well suited for the growth of barley, and especially for the production of malt, and, with cheap carriage, malt could be sold at a profit in Melbourne, and possibly supersede a great deal of the imported article. The prosperity of the country evinced by bringing land under crop would induce immigration, and tend materially further to benefit us in many ways. With increased facility for carriage, the wool from the district of the Pomahaka would find its way hither, and increase the value of the railway. He (Dr M.) had no doubt but that the railway might be floated off for a considerable sum, which might be appropriated partly in payment of the debt, and to bring hither immigrants, a matter which had been neglected. It was subject for remark that during the last three or four years, while the population of the Province had been stationary, the Customs revenue had been decreasing. Why was this ? The Dunedin merchants, with duty paid goods, had undersold our merchants, and perhaps the explanation of this was the absence of direct communication with home. A storekeeper at the Mataura had explained his dealing with Dunedin on the ground that he could be supplied more cheaply than in Invercargill ; however explained, the absence of the business was a loss to the Southland merchant, as well as a loss to the Province of the Customs revenue. In conclusion, he was of opinion that if the country was true to itself, and returned a Council representing the intelligence of the community, that Council would find a way out of the gloom which now surrounded, us. When he said that he firmly held this opinion, the electors would not be surprised that he should regard the advocates foe re-union as 1 cravens who had not the courage to fight i the battle out themselves. (Great cheering). Dr Menzies having resumed his seat)

the chairman intimated that it was now competent for any elector present to put questions. An Elector— lf the candidate knows of any scheme to get us out of an insolvent state, let him propound it ? Dr Menzies — Our position is not an insolvent one ; our landed estate alone is worth far more than double our debts The income from that source is, how. ever, irregular, and therefore the present difficulty. Sales one month might be nil, and next month be thousands. Mr Reese would ask if Dr Menzies could propound a scheme of immigration? Dr Menzies considered it was the province of the Government in Council to propose a scheme. Mr Wood — "Did Dr Menzies advocate devoting the monies arising from pastoral rents, and land revenue in general, to the settlement of districts, roads, bridges, and immigration. Dr Menzies would apply the land revenue proportiontely, to immigration, roads, and public works. Mr Wood— ls Southland now able to carry out the duties of a province ? Dr Menzies — Just now ; certainly not, but Southland has already devoted large portions of her revenue to reproductive works. Some little cross-firing here occurred between the speaker and Mr Wood relative to the sum spent by Otago on public works, when Dr Menzies resumed. He took credit to himself for having opposed the Otagan disposition to borrow last session, and stated that in 1868, when the land revenue of Southland was £29,000, she had expended in public works £25,000. Mr Osborne would enquire why it was objectionable to increase the power of Otago in the General Assembly ? Dr Menzies — It was difficult to answer the question without going into antecedents. Up to 1865, the Maori question had absorbed the principal attention of the House; lately it was generally remarked that Otagan questions were assuming that position. Their proclivities in the way of log-rolling were well known, and by that means they had perpetrated a fraud on the colony. The provincial liabilities were taken up in 1867, and on account of all sinkiug funds and interest there had been paid in from year to year (in 1867) £114,000. When the colony assumed j the responsibility, it was entitled to all accumulations. The question was left open, and Otago seeing its power in the Assembly, claimed the £114,000, and by ' the log-rolling process actually obtained £45,000. Mr Wood — It appears some gentlemen have offered to purchase land to the extent of providing funds for the con- 1 atruction of a light railway to Long Bush. I would like to know whether the money would not be retained on account of our debt? Dr Menzies — I apprehend the offer is made on certain conditions, and that unless a guarantee is given that these conditions will be observed, the purchase will not be made. An Elector — Do you consider it advisable to extend the railways ? Dr Menzies — Certainly; the more they are extended the more valuable they become, and the more certain to be remunerative. Mr Reese— Did Dr "Menzies approve of the action of the Superintendent in reference to the late Executive ? Dr Menzies had nothing to do, and would not meddle with, that matter ; he agreed with the action of the Superintendent in one point, and thought the Executive must have been blind not to see the advantage of pushing forward the railway. Mr Osborne — Is there a possibility of the constitution being altered in 12 or 18 months, so as to secure the revenue of the Middle Island to itself? Dr Menzies regarded this as a very important question. It had been generally considered that the extension of the Thames goldfield would settle the Maori difficulty. There was no probability of a change in the constitution until after a new; Assembly had met. Mr Osborne — Is there a probability of the provincial system, being soon broken up? Dr Menzies thought not, as the Assembly would not deal with such a question in its expiring session. He would not be in favor of a separation between the two Islands, but would like the provincial system superseded by that of counties and boroughs. In reply to Mr Reese, Dr Menzies said he was not in favor of an export duty on wool, being opposed to all protective duties. Mr Mitchell here proposed, and Mr Robert Tapper seconded, a resolution declaring Dr Menzies a fit and proper person to represent the town of InvercaTgill in the Provincial Council. Mr Osborne—" Why was the Ballot thrown out by the Upper House ? " Dr Menzies supported the Ballot in the Upper House, where it was carried ; it was lost in the Lower. The Bill had been altered in the Upper House, as it did not ensure secrecy. It allowed Government to ascertain how votes were given. Mr Osborne — Would Dr Menziea be in favor of selling the land under £1 per M.GTO Dr Menaies believed the land sales under present regulations would do all that was required to put us in funds. Mr Osborne, by leave of the meeting, got upon the stage and addressed the audience, dwelling emphatically on the evils likely to accrue from tinkering with the constitution, instancing the alterations in the land laws, which led to spotting, and the present Executive Councils Ordinance. He believed the province would yet float, and advised the return of educated and thoughtful men. The motion was then put and carried with apparently two dissentients, and the meeting dosed with the usual vote ol thsnki to the Obairnan.