THURSDAY, AUGUST 19th. FORENOON SITTING.

Southland Times, Issue 1116, 20 August 1869, Page 2

THURSDAY, AUGUST 19th. FORENOON SITTING.

The Council met this morning at 11 o'clock. Present — Messrs Wilson (Speaker), Blacklock (Provincial Treasurer), Taylor, Mo nekton, Dairy mple, Boss, Johnston, Kinross, Howell, Calder, Swale, Daniel, Steuart, Pratt, Basstian, Pearson, Hately, M'Clure, and Hodgkinson. The minutes of yesterday's proceedings were read and confirmed. At the suggestion of the Speaker no notices of motion were given in, the Order Paper already embracing more business than would be got through in the course of one or two sittings. TE ANAU ROAD. Mr Steuabt " asked the Government what action had been taken with reference to a representation by residents of the Te Anau district, regarding the superintendence and completion of a certain piece of road within that district by the Boad Engineer." He thought it necessary to state the circumstances giving rise to the question. Sometime ago the Te Anau people applied to the Government of Otago and Southland to have the roads in question formed. The Otago Government gave the sum of £500, and that of Southland undertook the laying out of the road, and the supervision of its formation, as their share of cost. Certain alterations from the original plans and specifications had been allowed by the Road Engineer, which had given dissatisfaction, and it was desired that the Surveyor who drew out the plans should be appointed to make an examination of, and report upon the works before the contractors were fully settled with. He thought it the more necessary to be particular in this matter that Otago had contributed the funds. Mr Taylor replied that he had received the representation referred to, and on the same day, by the same messenger, returned instructions to Mr Dun das, the Purveyor in question, who was then in J that neighborhood, in compliance with the expressed wishes of the residents, he i also begged to lay on the table a report (afterwards read) from Mr Dawson, the Road Engineer, explaining why the alterations complained of had been made. IMMIGRANT'S BILLS. Mr Pearson, in the absence of Mr Ci/EBK, " asked the Government to Jay on the table a memo, of all Immigrants B.lls due, over due, and coming due,

showing the date of maturity of each, aud by whom accepted and indorsed." The Provincial Treasurer promised the information required, as soon as the papers could be made out. BLUFF HARBOR DUES. Mr Stettabt " asked the Government to lay upon the table a return of th« pilotage dues taken at Bluff Harbor from January Ist to June 30th, together with the rate charged there, as compared with that levied at other ports of !N"ew Zealand, and the reason for any difference in the scale of dues that may exist." He understood the harbor dues levied at "£ke Bluff were only half what were charged at all other New Zealand Ports, and he thought that under the financial circumstances of the province they should be raised to the same figure as elsewhere. Mr C alder regretted the question was not in the form of a motion, as members were prevented from speaking on it as at present put. The proposed alteration was effectad, as several members intimated a desire to give an opinion on the subject. Mr Calder then drew the attention of the mover to the fact that the Bluff was different, especially with reference to steamers, to other ports, inasmuch as it was merely a port of call. He knew of one line of steamers which continued to call solely upon the urgent solicitation of the local agents, their calls being generally attended with a loss. The raising of the dues would effectually put a stop to their entering the port, and instead of increasing the revenue would involve a loss. In their scheme of retrenchment the late executive had abstained from increasing shipping burthens at the Bluff solely on this account. Messrs Pratt, Basstian, and Daniel, also deprecated the idea of raising the charges, but would not object to thequestionif put simply with a view to obtaining certain information. Mr Steuart, in reply, understood that steamers generally came in without the assistance of a pilot, consequently the matter would not affect them, and he was of opinion that other vessels, discharging their whole cargo, should be charged the same here as elsewhere. Mr Tatlor stated that there waß a difference in charges in the case of vessels discharging whole cargoes. The Provincial Treasurer said the information asked for should be laid on the table as soon as possible. IMMIGRANTS BILL 9. Mr Stettart asked the Goverment " what amount it has recovered of overdue Immigrants Bills since Ist January last. 1 * The Pbovxstciai, Treasurer replied fchafc between Ist January and 30th June, 18(59, £189 had been recovered. QUARRY RS3ERVE3. The Provincial Treasurer was proceeding to ask leave to bring in a Bill intituled, " Sale of Quarry Reserves Ordinance, 1869," when— Mr Calder suggested that all Bills should be postponed until the question of the position of the Government was settled. It could not* he contended, be alleged that the Government had the confidence of a majority of the Council. If this course was not adopted, it would probably lead to a suspension of the standing rules, in order to introduce a direct motion on the subject. The Provincial Treasurer explained that the Bill was a purely formal one, and might be initiated without reference to questions of policy, at the same time he had no desireto press it. He was, however, obliged to the last speaker (Mr Calder) foe informing him what he (Mr C.) consideredi the objectof his last night's motion, and the result expected — No confidence, and & turn out of the Executive — (Mr Calder, no, no!) Messrs Johnstone, Basstian* Dalrymple, and Hodgkinson, opposed the introduction of the Bill, on other grounds. They did not think it right to tamper with reserves, or to devote to purpose* other than that originally intended. Mr Tatlob explained that the hind in question had simply been reserved from sale. That it was much larger in extent than if as necessary for the purposes of quarrying, and that there were several applications in for the portion that could be spared. Mr Kinross agreed with previous speakers, as the injudiciousness of bringing in Bills while matters affecting the stability of the Government were impending. If pressed, he should move its being read six months hence. Mr Pratt felt disinclined to assist in the transaction of any ordinary business until a more important matter-annexation — had been disposed of. He was aware that that subject was to be introduced immediately the question between His Honor and the late Executive was settled. The Speaker begged to state his opinion that the House was in a dilemma. Neither annexation nor any ether question should, or could be properly discussed until the House had determined whether they had an Executive Government or not. (Hear, heaar .) The Provincial Treasurer withdrew the Bill. ORETI RAILWAY. Mr Pratt asked the Government |* if they had received any communication from the contractors for the Oreti Bailway, announcing their intention and ability to proceed, with the railway works in a more vigorous manner." He put this question because His Honor's address stated that cerfcaiu hindrances to the progress of the works had been removed, and no information was before the Council to show what those hindrances were, or that any ever existed. Mr Taylor, in reply, would read the latest telegram he had received from the Contractor, Mr Abbott, dated at Dunedin 14tb inst., as follows :— " Financial and other arrangements all completed. Certain to come by Rangitoto, and will Boon make up for lost time. " FINANCIAL STATE OF THE PROViNCE Dr Hodokenbon. moved-^-" That the. financial difficulties of the Province of {Southland are such as to necessitate some immediate relief or complete re-

construction of administration, ni a accordingly invites the confiieuc^ of the General Government ns to any contemplated scheme of relief entertained pre- i sently by it to guide the Council in consideration of its future conduct" He brought forward this motion because no relief could be given to the province by the General Government without legislation on the part or the Assembh, and as the session must be drawing near a close, it was necessary to bri^g our condition prominently forward at once. It was not to be expected the Government would step in to our assistance unless we did something to stimulate them. If we remained inactive our affairs were likely to be be overlooked. In the meantime our position was so critical that it was doubtful if Government would be able to pay departmental expenses. Salaries were already in arrears, and, in fact, unless by some fortunate circumstance turning up, he did not see how the affairs of the Province were to be carried on, supposing the Province to continue its separate existence. On the other hand, should reunion be decided on, it would take some time to carry it into effect and what was to be done to carry on the Government iv the interim- He did not anticipate opposition to the motion as it did not, in his opinion, commit the Council to anything. It was simply a request for more light, and aajone opposing it he must, consider as living in darkness in preference. He would not like to impute motives, but thought the action of any member offering opposition would he liable to suspicion. Mr Steuaet seconded the m°tion ; £ c thought it well to know whether the General Government had any scbeme in process for our relief, and that in discussing the question of annexation the alternative should be before members. Mr DalißTMple opposed the motion on the ground of its being simply a waste of time, the General Government h avin g already distinctly stated that our only course was either to sell our land o r re " unite to Otago. It was no use going to "Wellington for money, they had non© t0 spare, being in difficulties themselves. Not one farthing would be got from that quarter. He knew that plenty of peoP^ were waiting to buy up the land at 10s or 78 6d an acre, which would be ruinous, tmt might occur any day, therefore, to his mind, there was but one course to take. Dr Monckton could not understand the opposition to this question, unless on the supposition that members preferred to remain in the dark on an important matter. The Government might of course, have asked, but the question would have more force coming from the Council. Mr M'Clttbe supported the motion. It would not only throw light on a subject, but would circumscribe the field over which their ideas were to stray. Annexation, reunion, absorption, annihilation, and many other modes of extinguishment were talked without its bpi"g understood what other course was open to us The reply to this question would put us right in that reapect Mr Dautel also supported the motion. Mr Caxdeb, the supporters of the resolution misunderstood the grounds on which opposition was offered. It was not that the information sought was not wanted, but that it might, and ought to have been obtained long ago. He also objected to the motion, on the ground that it was calculated to raise false hopes. The House should also remember that the General Government had already been applied to, by the late Government, when it had clearly intimated its intention. Both the present and past Colonial Ministry knew our position as well as we did ourselves. They put down the provinces in a classified list — defaulting and sound — those who paid their interest and those who did not — and Southland had long been on the wrong side. But there was another thing underneath the motion which hon. members did not seem to see. It was in effect asking the General Government to indicate how the Government of this Province was to be carried on. The assertion that the Colonial Treasurer's statement need not be accepted as definite, was quite fallacious. Mr Yogel was then the mouthpiece of the Ministry in everything relating to cash, and after giving utterance to such statements in the Assembly, was it likely they would set them aside at the request of the Couucil. It was also inconsistent to invite the General Government to take certain action, while at the same time it was contemplated to invite the people to decide on the question of annexation, which if adopted would render the other unnecessary. The Govemmeut might uttain the information without asking the Council to stultify in future action by committing itself to all that might be implied in the motion. Mr Joanston opposed the motion. Mr Basstian thought thp motion savoured something of want of confidence, being brought in by a private member. He thought it should have been introduced by the Government. Mr Taylob said that Mr Calder, in saying " the General Government had \ clearly refused further assistance, should have confined himself to stating that they refused to do it in the particular mode his Government wanted. Mr Caldeb : "You told me the Colonial Secretary had said to you — 'we will do anything for yeu, but dont ask money ' — and that covered everything but the land." Mr Taylob, continuing : — Mr Stafford's last telegram stated that had he remained in office, the scheme for lightening our burden to £12;000, then to £9,000, and ultimately to nothing, would have heen again pressed upon the Assembly. So that it was not exactly according to facts to say that the General Government had clearing refusee further assistance. .... Dr.HoDGKmspif replied at some length to the objection raised, and contended that no argument had been adduced to deter him from pressing the motion.

Mr Calder then proposed an amend- l ment to the following effect, " That the ! Superintendent be requested to obtain ' from the General Government information as to whether it intends to assist this province in its present financial difficulties." Dv Hodgkotson obtained leave to withdraw his motion, as the amendment would fffect all that was aimed at. Mr Daletmple seconded the amendment, which was then carried as a substantive motion. ANNEXATION' Mr C alder moved — "That this Council is of opinion that any bill introduced into the Assembly by the General Government permi ting the re-nnion of provinces should have especial reference to tho union of Southland to the province of Otago, and that the Superintendent be requested to forward the resolution to the Colonial Secretary by the first opportunity. He thought that if annexation was to take place it would be well to have the machinery in existence for effecting it as sooq as possible after is should be decided on. Mr Taylor had pleasure in seconding the motion, as it did not pledge the Couucil to that course, but merely affirmed the principle that if it was to be effected no obstacles should be unnecessarily interposed. He presumed he would have the opportunity again of speaking ou the subject of annexation itself, to which he was opposed, and would not enlarge on it now. Mr JomrsTOtf in supporting the motion intituaeed that he only waited the opportunity to table a resolution tending re-union ifcself. Dr Hodgkxnsok thought the motion committed the Council to annexation, and therefore couldnot support it. He thought it would be time enough to provide the machinery w.-ea the people had resolved to re-unite. He did not think the time which would necessarily elapse before a Bill could be again brought into the assembly would be lost, as the subject was one requiring ample time for consideration. Mr Dalrymple supported the motion at considerable length. Mr Kesboss said that had the Council met when it ought to have done this resolution would have been unnecessary, as there wouJd have been plenty of time for the discussion of the subject and the bringing in of a B'll in the Assembly afterwards. As it was the only way to remedy the delay tras by tbus providingtor the wishes of the people being speedily earned out. Mr Dakiel supported the resolution. Mr M'Clitbe spoke against the motion. It clearly committed the Council to annexation. It was making provision for what was apparently a foregone conclusion. The argument that it would save time was enormous. Even supposing reunion to be agreed upon it was desirable that it should not be affected too humidity. He instanced the difference in this respect between Great Britain and France. In the former radical changes were generally permament. In the latter they were the result of impulse, did not secure the objects sought, and were soon again upset. Mr Ross thought none so blind as those who would not see. Ha had seen enough of the signs of the times to convince him of what was the peoples wish m this matter. All hesitation had consequently gone from his owu mind. The great nnmber of Bignitures to the memorial presented yesterday showed there would be a clear majority. Dr Monckton said a large number of the names alluded to were those of diggers, whose opinion on politics were formed solely with reference to law 3 affecting only themselves, and who therefore should not have been asked to give an opinion on a question like annexation. Mr Daniel regretted to hear the member for Longwood express himself as he had done with regard to the diggers, many of whom were old residents in the province, and freeholders. Dr Monckton explained that his remarks cast no reflections on the diggers as a class, but simply meant that they looked on the question from a point only affecting themselves . Mr Peabson thought if 'twere well 'twere done, 'twere done quickly. Mr Caldeb having replied, the motion was ultimately passed on the word " especial" been struck out. Mr Johnstone without notice, moved the postponement of the consideration of all bills introduced, until the question between the Superintendent and the late executive had been settled. DELAY IN CALLING COUNCIL. Dr Moncktost volunteered a personal explanation of the cause why the meeting of the Council had been twice postponed. Owing to his unavoidable absence a legal quorum could not be formed, and he consequently pressed the Superintendent to make the prorogations. Had the business been gone on with while he was away, it might have given rise to an idea that he disapproved of the action of his colleagues. The Speakeb placed on the table the report of the Provincial Auditor, which was read. The House then adjourned until 7.30 p.m.