HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Southland Times, Issue 1190, 9 July 1869, Page 6

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

MOTION OF WANT OF CON- j FIDENCE. The following is a condenced report of the speeches of Messrs Fox and Stafford, on the want of confidence motion, taken from the ' Wellington Independent' : — ' Mr Fox, in rising to move — " That this House has no confidence in the j present Government," was received with j loud app^use. He said a motion of this sort, if successful, usually resulted in the extinction of the Ministry against whom it was directed, but he was not confident that this would be the case on the present occasion after the experience the House had last session. Naturalists knew there were some animals which were remarkably tenacious of life, but they were animals of low organisation ; animals of ' a higher organisation were killed readily. Last session every measure of the Government was defeated ; on one occasion they even threatened to resign ; the- Opposition challenged them to appeal to tne country, and the Government almost j pledged themselves to do so ; and yet they found the same Ministry still sitting j on those benches. It had been hinLed to him that it would have been better for him to have allowed the Government to develop their native policy before bringiu<* forward this motion ; but after the experience the House had last session of the difficulty of drawing from the Government any intimation of their policy, he considered it would have been folly on his part and of those who did him the honor to follow him to vainly waste tirce in awaiting a development of tbc measures of the Government. Moreover, they were not there now to discuss what the policy of the Government had done during the past year, and to see whether the Government had improved the position of the country during that time. In order to show how the country had been brought into its present deplorable state, it would be necessary for him to criticise military operations. He might be met by the argument that not being a military man he had no right to do so. This might be a fair argument with regard to the details of the operations but any man of average intelligence and a moderate acquaintance with the affairs of the country was competent to criticise the general conduct of the war ; and to say whether the Government had brought the country into its present position, and whether or not the coun<' *y had, since the commencement of the war, been drifting deeper and deeper into disaster. It was necessary for him to recapitulate what bad been said last session in order to make his subsequent remarks clear. The general effect af General Cameron's, General Chute's and other operations was toplac the natives in subjection, and leave to the Colonial Government the carrying out by civil regulations and civil measures the pacification of the natives, and the binding of them to us. To do this required the maintainence of a competent force ; an attentive watchfulness ; a thorough knowledge of the natives and of how the interests of the natives were interlaced with the Europeans ; it required in short, ail those qualities which a Ministry ought to possess. How was that duty performed ? It came out in the course of the debates last session that it had been discharged by the Government in the most perfunctory and careless manner, which led to those disasters in which the country became involved. Abandoning the high objects which they ought to have kept in view, they gave themselves up to forming political combinations for the purpose of keeping themselves in office. (Hear, hear.) They let the country drift, drift, drift, without prescience or control. (Hear, hear.) There was at that time only one man capable of carrying out to a successful issue the business which the Government had to do on the East Coast — that man was Mr Donald M'Lean, Superintendent o*F Hawke's Bay. (Hear, hear.) And how did they use this chance which Providence had placed in their hands ? Why, they sacrificed it to a political combination, whose only object > was to maintain them in office. (Hear, hear.) They sacrificed him for the sake of the political services of Mr Whitaker. This was three years ago. The Government might, as they did before, deny this, but he had the statement of Mr M'Lean for its truth. No matter whether Mr M' Lean was directly set aside or not, the action which the Government took necessarily put him aside. The Government's denial was self-contradictory. Mr M'Lean sent in no reports for two years ; and what must have been the negligence of the Ministry, if having placed themselves in such a position with Mr M'Lean, they did not find it out for two years. What was tne immediate resuito -Jr tiua conduct ? Why that, when the House met last year the natives on the East Coast were in a highly dissatisfied and disorganised state, and complaining of the broken pledges of the Government. Never was there an act of greater infatuation than the manner in which the Government had dealt with the Chatham Island prisoners. Having rightly transported those natives, they became so careless as to leave the door open for their escape. But thiß was not done before warnings had been given by Mr Bolleston and other officials. Only a few days before the escape took place Mr Ritchie warned them in the most emphatic manner that conspiracies were forming amongst the prisoners. Yet, in reply, Mr Gisborne informed him that the Government led him to believe that his alarm about the state of the prisoners was unfounded. On the West Coast a most unfortunate state of affairs grew vp — a conflict of authorities. Mr Parris was exercising a direct action upon affairs ; there was Mr Booth, whose actions did not show him to bethed'scretest of individuals ; and Colonel M'Donnell, all exercising authority. Any watchful Government would have at once put a stop to such a condition of

things. He charged the Government with this, that being in power at a time when most important objects were to be effected, they suffered us to drift, miserably drift into that state of affairs from which they were now incapable of extricatf og us. He would now proceed to criticise the military operations that had been carried on. That conflict of, authority existing at the period to which he bad alluded, Titoko Wrru, evidently keenly on the watch for an opportunity to resume hostilities, set some of his young men to comintace operations in the manner natives gejet> j ally did. They began horse stea l '^ Unfortunately they took one of Mr Booth's horses ; and Mr Booth, acting as Eesident Magistate, arrested the wrong men — took the wrong horse, and had of course to return the horse and set the men at liberty. Any ona could understand what the effect of this would be i upon the natives. Then the natives murdered soaie indivduals ; and finally it became necessary for the Government to take the matter in hand, which they did j 1 their O\\n faekion. Coloael M'DoDald then came down to Wellington, and he would quote from that gentlemen's book to show how utterly incapable the Govern ment were of understanding the gravity of the stats of affairs a .thatti-ne. Mr Stafford is stated by Colonel M'Donnell to have said in reply to his remonstrances against abandoning the Patea district ; " I don't care ; the Assembly would not vote the mouey." As an additional evidence of how little the Government understood the crisis impending, he might remiad the House that at the end of last seosiou several hoa. members drew attent:on to fie fact that war was impending on the East and West Coasts, and the hon. member at the head of the Government said that not more than 250 men could be brought aga : ust us at any part ot the country (hear, hear) ; wb'le the then Postmaster- General said that the war would not cost per day more thai the sittings of that House did. (Mr Hall : No, No.) Well, at any rate the House understood h : .m to say so. The obje2t of the Government was evidently to throw ridicule on the war. [Mr Fox then proceeded to review the events which subsequently t/aospired on the West Coast.] Colonel M'Donnell, than whom a better commander we never had, and whom he hoped to Eec again in the field, proved beyond all doubt that for mere political reasons —to keep the Ministry ia their seats— he was urged against his own w : sh and that of brave Von Tempsky and his other officers — he was twitted with the alleged successes of Colonel Whitmore — alleged successes which had since proved to be defeats — and urged by the petty selfishness and poor ambition of two or three men to retain their seats in the Ministry — until in an u^^ovuunate hour he made the attack upon Te Ngatu-o-ce-Manu. Then the hon. Defence Mnister who had been glued to his seat in the House, while all .this was going on, went up to the West Coast, and imnaed ; ately ordered the abau- j donmeat of the Patea district. He was j willing to give all credit to Colonel Whitmore for being a zealous and energetic officer; but his zeal was not tempered with that discretion necessary to constitute a good commander. He doubted whether the expenditure and operations under Colonel "Whitmoce bad produced ' results commensurate with their magnitude. Mr Fox proceeded to criticise Colonel Whitmore's operarions on the West Coast. Colouel Whitmore, instead of gradually advancing from Wereroa to Wairoa and thence to Patea and thus keeping Titoko Waru always in front, advanced at an angle, and thus gave Titoko Warau an opportunity of outflanking him, an opportunity which the latter did not lode an. hour in seizing, By this means thers was no force between Titoko Waru and Waugauui ; and consequently, Colonel Whitmore found it necessary to return and attack Titoko Wa-'u at Motoroa. The pa was of such a character that, could a vei'tical fire have been got, T.'toko Waru must have beea destroyed ; Colonel Whitmore, was ob^'ged to rely on his small arms, and finally had to retire, on Patea, leaving Titoko Ward between himself and Wauganu\. The pas of Wereroa and Nukumaru were the keys ox the whole district, and if these were in our possession, Wanganui would be impregnable. Mr Fox then alluded to the evacuation of Wereroa, Nukumaru, and the whole of the district a:"ter the unsuccessful attack upon the Wereroa by Titoko Waru. It was we I ', for the Colonial Secretary to laugb ; since he had never suffer ed thelosses and trials which the people in these districts bad suffered. Befo-e Colonel Whitmore left for the East Coast, bs head-quarte-s, , wo:t} > actual iy driven in to wAttia u'oe miles of Wanganui. After Co'oDel Whitmore had been for sjme weeks on the East Cor?t, he retuned to the West Coast. Titoko Waru was then gefctvag short of food, his young men were discontented, and everything was favorable for an attack on Turan^aiki, which Co'oael Wbitmore determined to make. He gave Colonel Whitmore more credit for courage in coming to this determination, but ie was oue ox those occasions oa wh : ch he bad not erercised much di • cretion. The proper miiita-ry way to surround a pa of tbat kind was not to bring your men close up to the fence ; but to close up, at some little distance, all meaos of io^cess and egiess, then march up with a bold front, and drive out the natives, who would then fall into the power of the parties posted in the rear. But Coloael WbiLmore le"t the back-door open ; and it was the old story over a^in. He (Mr Fox) had beea told by a trooper, a very respectable man, that the latter mentioned to Colonel Wnitmore before the attack a way in which the pa could be surrounded and was told to mind bis own business. Colonel Whitmore's subsequent pursuit of Te KooLi did him great credit ; but it merely resulted in his finding himself in the arms of some friendly natives. Mr Fox then com-

tnented on circumstances connected with j Colonel Whitmore's application for assistance from Taranaki. The Govern- j meut had the other day said that it did ] not matter that the troops were not sent, j since Colonel Whitmore had written to say that he did not want them ; but Mr Pav.-is's own letters showed that, if Colonel Whitmore thought Titoko Warn had left Te Ngaire, Mr Parris was of opinion that he was still there. Garbled documents had been laid on the tab'e respecting the dismissal of Mr M'Lean, j but which showed that the e'-.'ciimstances of his case and that of tbe Supe-inten-dent of Taranaki and Mr Par* is were exactly similar, save in that the Government committed a great breach of confi- | denee towards Mr M'Lean, in not ioformiag him of their intention to bring down Eopata and the Ngatiporous. Tefc Mr M'Lean was ignominiously gazetted out of the service. Tbe parallel between, the cases was a most striking one ; aa ignomioious dismissal in the one case, while, in. the other, Mr Parris and Mr Richmond wer3 patted on the back. Colonel Wtp'tmo.-e \».. _,on the West Coast from six to e'^ht muntbs, dur'ng the whole of wh'e'i me he had only one engagement wo i,-.«y of the name — that at Motaroa. TltokoiWaru can boast of having ach'eved the g -eatest victory ever achieved by a naUve over uhe Europeans. An unknown maa a year ago, he has suddenly atfca : ned a high repafcaiion, he has driven off our settlers, lived on our food, threatened the town of Wauganui, and now that his young men are tired, he retreats, in Mojil fashion, to recruit for another campaign. The in'ormation which he hnd obtained d ; d not just';"/ the torpid expressions of praise respecting the m itary operations which were used in the Governor's spaech. He observed that Mr Path, Mr Davis, Mr Preece, and he was sorry to see his friend Sir William Martin had also got mired up in the matter — authorised or unauthorised, had entered into negotiations with K'ng Tawhaio; and endeavors bad been made, but unsuccessfully, to obiain a sight of a certa'.n leLter. Other people, however, might have be^n more success ul, and he had seen a document which pu i oorted to be a letter -from Titoko Waru to Tawhaio, giving an accouot of the rscenb campaign on the West Coast. He did not, however, pledge himself to its authenticity ; but would read it to the House as showing Titoko Waru's idea of tbe campaign. [The hon. geutlemau read tbe letter amidst much laughter.] He did not wish to compare General Chute with Colonel Whitmore, as such a comparison would be invidious. He did not wish to detract from Colonel Whitmore's opsrations, but merely to show how little had been done. It was, however, the case tbat General Chute bad, iv twenty-four i days, taken three of the strongest pas on the coast, and marched thro a;* h the bush to Taranaki. On the East Coast no doubt something had been done, but with no important result. Had the native allies been furnished with coboros, they would have taken Ngataoa by themselves. What aye the Government doing at tbe present moment that it is likely to terminate the war? The bon. member in charge of native affairs bad srid the other day that Titoko Waru would be taken; but tb.e only "way iv which he was likely to be taken was in the mode little boys are recommended io use for catching birds — by putting salt on his tail. He was simmy negotiating with the tribeo ia tbe inter : or for reinforcements; and would come down age in as soon as Irs preparations were made. He hor>ed the Government would satisfy the House whether these negotiations with tbe K'ng were be ; ng carried on with the.'.? authority, Yo? io would be almost disastrous for tbe county if iadVciurls were a'bwed without authority, or with tbe co^.usioa of the Government, to negotiate wiih leaders of tbe rebels. He would, u^ess the Goveromeofc admitted it, acqaic the Government from all comp'i.ciu/ in such negot-ations ; bat would not acqn't thejn if they did not stoo a^l uoauobor'sed negotiations of this kiod. What are we goi.Dg to do for the "future to stop this noise- able war, which is b inking booh islands to irretrievable bankruptcy? He calculated that it was impossible for us to have spent less during the past year tbaa £300,000, at wlr'ch rate we are sti'l spending. Can we go on soeiding in this way? Judg-og from the geaeral tenor of the Governor's speech, it appeared that Government intended to carry on the war on the same system as at present and with the same objects. If such were the case, it would be utterly hopeless. We should, as be Tore, fight the rebels daring tbe so ramec, and they would rot ; oo iutu tko forests to recruit during the winter ; and we shoul 1 be left to pay the bi'l. What was the self-reliance policy? Were we defeediig ousselves like the backwoods men o" America ? If the settlers of the various provinces of the North aud South Islaad were to shoulder their rifles and march to Taupo, he codld understand that. There was,* it appeared, no want of sel? ?eli"ance in keeping a regiment if you could ; there ! wai no waat o self- reliance in writ lug ' begging lettei'S to the Home Government for a guarantee for a loan ; but there was a want of self-reliance if you asked for two regiments of troops ! Even Mr Weld had fallen away from the self-reliance poUcy, and bad always had the assistance of troops. He believed that, if it had not been for the miserable driblets of troops in different parts of the colony, we shouM not have escaped greater disasters than we had experienced. The town of Wanganui wofld undoubtedly have been attacked. Supposing the troops now in the colony were taken away, together with the men-of-war, weie we prepared to defend ourselves ? Large numbers ofthe natives were only awaiting the withdrawal of the remaining troops iv order to commence an attack. The hon. member in charge of Native Affairs, in a speech delivered at Ta.ranaki, foreshadowed an attack up the King, which would draw on a general struggle with the natives. '

The hon. gentleman had said the Grovenmentwould be nopartvtoagainblin^policy, but was there ever a more gambling policy than one which trusted solely upon the chance of a few troops remaining in the country. He was no opponeot to the self-re 1 i<mt men; but was in favor of asking for a few troops. The despatches roni the Colonial Minisi .-y had never s'sked for troops. A policy w'nca put an cad to the maintenance of those filial relations which should exist between the colony and the Home Government, was a suicidal policy. There wa3 nothing derogatory in our looking to the Imperial Government, for assistant c ; New Zealand was the child of the Home country, and was eno'tled to be assisted ; and it was _ a frlse independence to refuse to ask for it. The present policy of the Government was that which they (the Opposition) complained of last session; they were drifting into a geaerrl war. He was afraid that the words with which an article in the Government or^an last year commenced "Tbrnk God, we a.re in for a geneivl w*>r," indicated too truly the policy of the Govern meat. It was true that if the whole force of the colonists of the North Island were brought to bear agaiosfc the natives, the latter would be crushed; but at the cost of the utLer destruction of the colonisation of the North Island, at the expense of the South. On aaother subject he would j remark that the Government had made unceasiog efforts to suoverfc the Constitufon of the colony. Was the Government now prepa'ed with anything better than that wretched Eoad Boards Eill which wa« pitched out of the House with tbe contempt of both sides ? They kept irritating the mind of the country on this subject ; and ought to bring down some well devised general scheme. The bon. member sat down amidst great applause. I Mr M'Leaa seconded the motion p. ? forma. The Co'ou'al See.:e.a«y, on rising, was received w\h loud cheers. He sa : d the s )eech just made was a very suggestive eViibit-00, and woald sink into men's m : ads wnen i;he stage effect w-th which it was so" rounded had ppssed away. When hoo. members considered the grave posit'on o?the iouit. i «r, they would sjy — this is not tbe ma. a, this ia not the th'ng, which is wanted ! The hou. member had enunciated no policy ; he had spoken like a man who felt bound to Bay as little as I possible. He had heard the hon. member sometimes with pleasure, and sometimes without pleasure, speak and evoke the j enthusiasm of the House ; but on this occasion, apart from the applause of the claqueu.s by whom every leader of party had i.obe surrounded, he had been mcc ■w ; th perfect coldness. The hon. rr embee was bound to have contrasted his policy with that of the Ministry. The hon. gentleman had spoken as though he only had zeal — he only had ability — but had he not already been tried ia the balance, aud had received what no other Ministry in New Zealand had received, the unanimous support of botjj sides ofthe House in carrying out his views ; and what had been the result ? He had traversed the length and breadth of the colony sowing those runangas which had become the curse of the native race ; and at the end of his time, he and his friends were compelled to confess that his policy was a miserable failure. On his coming for a second time into office, he had three millions of money to spend, while the war was confined to one part of the island ; and the result was, lhat having poured out money like water, he left tbe natives unsettled, the couutry in a deplorable financial condition, and ran away to the sea of Galilee ! The hon. gentleman had made a string of assertions, with his usual adroitness, in a putative '< manne:'. The Government waa now in a position in military affairs, which no other Goveratnent had beea in beibre : they had to carry on operations in one part of the county, and to waLch narrowly mother part, whe^e an outbieak might occur at any moment. Tip to the present moment that outbreak had not come; but no one could say that it would not come. (Hear, hear). The Government had been expected to carry on operations which required the service of trained men and skilled commanders with a very small and untrained force, and with a knowledge that it was desired that that force should be still less. He should allow those of his colleagues who were more intimately acquainted with the circumstances to which the hon. gentleman had alluded to answer them in detail, but would answer some of the more general assertions. Mr Whitaker was never placed in Mr M'Lean's posivioti on the East Coast. He had oofcVng to do with native matters, nor did he act as a^ent of the General Government south ofthe East Cape. The only allegation which Mr M'Lean could make last year was that the Government had acted according to law ; and that the claims under the New Zealand Settlement Act were sent to Mr Whitaker, who was the person designated by the Act to receive them. The Government never made or contemplated making Mr Whitaker agent for the district south of the East Cape. A more marked change had never taken place in the opinion of Mr Pox regarding the merits of Mr M'Lean since he bad been in power. Tnis would seen by referring to the opinions expressed by Mr M'Lean before the Waikafco Committee in 1860. The very man who ought to have been the right-hand man of the hon gentleman when he acceded to office was the up- j. to whom he gave the cold shcul dec When the Waikato war broke out, did Mr Fox give unrestricted powers to Mr M'Lean ? He did not ;but gave him tbe cold shoulder. So fa • from tbe Ministry sacrificing Col. M'Donnell to preserve their places ; last session they sacrificed themselves to Col. M'Donaeli, as they gave up four votes ruther than remove Col. M'Donnell from his command. The Government had never sacrificed any of their servants. He gave the most unqualified denial to tbe words which Col. M'Donneil, or those who wrote his pamphlet had put into his

mouth, wltfb regard to the ruin of the P^tea District. He denied having said o? thought of sriying, "the sooner the better " Cut bono ? For what possible reeson should be wish for the destruction of the Patea d'Sorict. The retreat Vom aid the giving up of Manawapou wps by tbe act of Col. McDoaoell, and w^s not done by inso"uct ; ons of the Government ; bat he forbore to criticise this movement. He could have stated this ?p,st session, but see<nsr that Colonel MDonnell wj»3 a f?,Uea man he wou d not add to the opprobr'um heaped upon him, and the Government bore the blame. The hon. gentleman whose speech was a mere recJiaufe of last session, had raked up the affair of the escape of the Chatham Island prisoners, and spoke as though it were the only escape which had been made, quite ignor'ng Kawau. Mr < Kolleston had never given any such warning as alleged by the hon. member. Of the hon. gentleman's speech it might be said that what was new was not true, and what was true was not new. He did not state at the end of the session that not more than 250 men could be brought to bear at any point against us ; at the time l,he statement was made there were only ! 180 men under Titoko Waru and fighting i hal not commenced on the East Coast. The Minister of Defence at the end o? the session stated that the condition of affairs was very ssiious, and larger supplies would be required for defence than had been voted. Before this war broke out, there had beea no fighting for years, the Governor had traversed pares of the 1 country formerly hostile ; at the openmg of the previous session Government had congratulated the ITouse upon the peaceable state of the country, a congratulation which waa accepted ; and the Government were justified, considering that the delicate operation of floating a large loan in the money mprket was going on, in not making in the opening speech of next session any allusion as to the probability of a war. It was not the patt of a Government to unduly tnagnifiy danger. As soon as it was evident that a war was commencing, the Government did not lose a moment in coming down to the House and asking for money. When Colo o el Whitmore first went to the Wesb Coast he bad such a sma 1 1 force, and so disorgair sed, tbat he found the fi sfc recessa »y thing to do was to arouse that eip/it de corps wh'ch had " om some re?.son o? other become extinguished. Ia saying tb's, he fast r«o reflections upon Coloael M'Doaaell, aHhoo^h sorr-e of the men we're a«kJrg for i'lie'? discharge because they would rob serve longer under that officer. Tn a s'lort t'me Cornel Waifcmo^e got b : s mea ioto such oroer as to be ab!ej;o take ( ; [- e(n >nto ibe busiv the n?,ire o? w*rch hal be Ye been su3k : eutto verify them ; and fi<?a IT y, made an attack upon the enemy, which, altboi?^b. unsuccessful, had such an effect roo ■> L»*9 men tbat they reL" -ed w'-ih. a be. w opVoa of themseVes thia that Vi. • wVcb vhey had cc !;e 'ed ihe bush ; ptig\ v jde? ihe ci 'camsivuee-*, this ro^hfc be coas"de"ed equal to a r'coo"<r. Colooel Wa'^nore h?d^ on more t^?,i oae of»e:->s-"on fought and d Iveu Trek T'-Loko W?ru. Had the hon. geji-le-Dan spent a liit*e less time m writ'-ig out a port'on of h's speech ia t*ie form of a lelber, he might have become be" tee acquainted with "acts. Colonel WVtmore had left Te Ngaire be.Ye w.'itiost the letter to Major Brown. He (Mr Staffo?d> was not as as was smroosed by the 'ion. member laughiog at the destx'uct'oa of property, but at the hon. gentleman's curious mis-siatements. Messrs ITrfch, Davis, and Preece went to Wa ; kato without the authority and even tbe "orekaowled^e of the Government. I" ihe Governmeat were not able to present individuals acting in th'S way, it wa 1 ? largely owing to the hon. gentleman haT'ng prevented, on more than one occasion, tbe passing of a law g'ving the Govecomeut such, power. He did not know whether the boa. gentlemen was a I tot-,! oc partial disbelieve? in the eelfreli?nce policy. Had the Government applied for two regiments of troops they would be justly liable to the censure of the House, as the Legislature expressed its wish last session that the regiment then in the colony should be sustained on i the ground that Lord Carnarvon's stipulation had been complied with, and the ! Government had no right to go beyond this, as they would bave been involving the country in a large unauthorised expenditure. The Government, as would |be seen by the published papers, bad | been very c?reful to go neither to the ' right nor to the left of the expressed i wfsh of the Legislature ; but the question might of course be recoasids'*ed. He had put a series of categorical questions to the Secretary of State re T ative to the terms upon which troops wovld be furnished to the colony; and an answer to this would probably come by the next mail ; and the Legislature would then have something definite before it. He had his opinion as to what that answer woald be, but wonld ke3p it to himself. In reply to the request of two or three members, the hon. gentleman said he had no objection then to say that he believed the answer wonld be "no" to each question. As to tbe Ministry asking for the assistance of the navy, and refusing that of the army, the Ministry considered that the House by passing a vote of thanks to the navy, was desirous of availing itself of the navy's services. Mr Weld had applied for the removal of the wbole of the troops before he left office ; and did strike some very effective blows with only colonial troops. Mr Weld had of course to act according to circumstances. Mr Weld had acted rather hastily ; and might have got the I for^e he required had he waited. TJn- ; fortunately, Mr Weld would no longer be in a position to take part in New Zea- j land afiairs. He said unfortunately, because the condition of puble affairs was getting such that it was disgusting our best men and driving them out of the country ; and the action taken by the hon member was conducing

to this effect. "Whatever may be the future action taken and its result, it would have to be taken by ourselves ; it was useless to look out of the country for assistance. This native difficulty met the country in a period of great commercial depression ; when they had a part of the country deliberately propounding to themselves whether it was not their public duty to declioe all liability for i native affairs, because they were separated I from the Noi oh Island by Cook's Strait. If the South Island bore a part of the country's liabilities, and perhaps for the nreseot tbe latest part, they did not bear the whole ; aad must remember that if they left the North Island to itself lest it should become bankrupt, they were go<ng the way to make themselves bankrupt. Apart from sentiment altogether, it was the interest of the South Island to aid the North since its own prosperity was affected by the war ; wh ; le it was a part of the bounden duty of the Southern Islaod, not only to consider what persona were to govern the country, but to aid in devising a plan by which they could get the North Island out of its difficulty. He bad read assertions in the Southern papers tbat the South Is 1 and would not poy one shilling for the North Island. Toe South Island would have to pay it, wheLber they liked ifc or not ; or they would baee to take over the whole of the labilities of the colony. If this native difficulty were seized, in a few years the No'fch Island would be the richest part of the coJony ; and this should be considered by the South Island. Moreover, as a matter of justice, the South Island was bouod to stand by the North ; since the magoi Scent laaded estate of the South Island, which had already produced as much as the whole of the debt now hanging over tbe country, had been freely presented to tbe South by the North Island. Tbe South Island could not button its pockets so long as any of that estate remained, and Bap it would not pay anything iawa.cls repressing outbreaks in the North Island. They must either have a common obligat-on or a revision of tbe a T-ogetnent of 1856. Still, he was not prepared to say that some concession m ; glit not be made, and that when the North Island had recovered itself, the South Island might not properly ask it to Ivke upon itself the future liability of its defence and to pay for the present expenditure. He had thus sketched out a measure which it would be the duty of {be G-overnment to afterwards elaborate should the House continue to repose confidence in them. In some parts of the North Is^nd, teo, where the inhabitants were temporally called out for the defence of their own hearths and homes, a lower rate of pay might properly b 3 given. For the South Island to say that it would not t>ay auythiag moi?e for the North Island was one o" the most futile delusions aay reasonable roan ever indulged in. The coosideration of the interests of the EngHsh bondholders woald make the Eo^-'sb Government keenly alive to the effect which the separation of the Islands would have upon their bondholders' ioi crests. The hou. gentleman had given the Government no opportunity of ex* pound'ng its native policy ; and had made bs pu -ely a questions- of persons. If he was convinced that the bon. gentleman had a pa-ty with hi-n of sufficient ability and number to form, a Government and cocomaod a working majority in tho House, the Ministry would take the e?'.']iest oppori unity, upon his Excellency's return of plac- ag their resignation ia his hands. The only native policy which the bon. gentleman had, so far as the Government was aware, was that he sketched out las session — of handing over the management of nat've affairs to the Superintende its. Tbe natives had yet shown no inclination to regard the boundaries of proeincea. The hon. gentleman having laid no policy before the House, and not ncving, so Jar as he could see, a pa^Ly oapable of forming a Ministry, he (Mr Stafford) should not feel it necessary to place bis resignation , m the hands of his Excellency the next day. (Loud cheer 3.)