MORNING SITTING.

Southland Times, Issue 1070, 9 December 1868, Page 2

MORNING SITTING.

The Speaker took the chair at 11. 10. Present — The Speaker, Messrs Blacklock (Provincial Treasurer), Armstrong, M'Clure, Pearson, Monekton, Howell, Basstian, Dalrymple, T. M. Clerke, Johnston, Eoss, Pratt, Daniel, Hately, and Longuet. MINUTES. The minutes of the last sitting were read and confined. TELEGEAPH TO EIVERTON. Dr Mgnckton moved — " That this Council recommends the erection of a telegraph line from Invercargill to Eiverton, and accepts the condition required by the G-eneral G-overnment, of supplementing any loss in the working expenses of the same : provided that such loss, if any, < shall be repaid out of any subsequent i profit accruing from the working of such • line." He said, that in submitting the i resolution to the House he was asking but little for an important work. He was aware that all telegraph lines were under the control of the General Government, and upon it would devolve the cost of constructing the line. The subject had been brought before it, and in reply to the petition forwarded by tho people of Eiverton to Wellington, it was stated that if a gurantee was given to make up any deficiency arising from the working of the line after it was constructed, the request of the peti toners would be complied with. He believed that if the telegraph line was extended to Eiverton it would from the first pay working expenses. It could be kept ia efficient operation at a very small cost, at the outside £40 a year, and probably for about £25. If we considered the commercial advantage, it would be not only to the business men of Eiverton but Invercargill also, the very small responsibility the Council was asked to was so insignificant that it was needless for him to enlarge upon the subject. Mr Daniel, in seconding the motion, remarked, that the advantages derivable form telegraphic communication were now so well known and appreciated that comment on his part was unnecessary. The cost of constructing the line would be but trifling. As the railway to Winton was to be gone on with, the telegraph would doubtless also be constructed, and a slight deviation was all that would be requited to continue it to Eiverton. Dr Hodgee. son supported the motion. The Provincial Tbeasueeb said the G-overnment was not apposed to the motion, but he thought in its present form it would not be deemed satisfactory by the General G-overnment. If it constructed the line, although at first no surplus over-working expenses were expected, it would look forward to an increase of business in time paying the cost of construction. He would therefore suggest that the words after "working expenses of the same" be struck out. He would also draw attention to a remark of the seconder of the resolution, with reference to it being connected with a line to Winton. If that was the express desire of the the promoters of the work, it should be stated in the motion. Dr Monckton, as mover of the reso. lution, was quite willing to adopt the suggestion of the Provincial Treasurer, and strike out the latter clause of the motion, and as to the direction the line was to take, that was a matter for the consideration of the G-overnment that constructed it. Telegraphiccommunication was what was wanted, and to go into details as to how the line was to run would be undesirable. The motion as amended was put and carried on the voices. PAYMENT OF MEMBERS. Dr Monckton moved— "That tbis Council disapproves of any money being paid under the vote for country members' expenses, except to such members who are legitimately entitled to the same by an enforced absence from their distant places of residence, and being thereby entailed with travelling and maintenance costs.'' He said it was with considerable reluctance that he had brought forward this motion, but he did so on public grounds. On a former occasion, when this subject was discussed, one member, he would say, a member with retrenchment proclivities, had been forced to admit that he had made a commercial profit from being a member of this House. He held that when it was decided to pay country member. £1 per day, during the sitting of the Council, it was intended simply to compensate for tbe actual loss arising from travelling and town expenses, and it was never contemplated that a member, an honorable member of the House, whose residence was only about sixteen feet beyond the boundary should, upon the plea of being a country member, take a pound a day when he had not suffered loss and incurred no expense in the discharge of his legislative duties. As he before stated, one hon member had regularly drawn his pound a day while it was patent he had not been put to an expense of even eighteenpence a day while attending the Council. He maintained it was an abuse of a useful provision. The payment of country members was never intended for any other purpose than to reimburse members from a distance for the actual loss arising from their having to leave their business, and travel long distances iv order to be present at the sittings of the Council, and from their local Knowledge make plain the wants and requirements of the districts they represented. Dr Hodgkinson- seconded the motion. He had hesitated in rising to second the resolution, not from any misgiving as to its importance, but in the hope that the hon. member to whom the remarks of the previous speaker had evidently been directed would have had the good taste to second it himself. He would in a few words say that he entirely agreed i

with the resolution, and hoped the House would coincide with him in the opinion that it was one of importance. Mr Dalrymple was compelled to conclude that he was the member to whom the previous speakers had so eloquently alluded to. Still he was not prepared to support the resolution in its present shape. He had drawn his pound a day, after learning that Mr Wood, M.H.R. when a member of the Council, and being no further from town than he was, drew his. If the motion had been to do away with payment of members it would have received his hearty support, as being a good step in the direction of 'retrenchment,' but-, as it stood,* it was one sided and unfair. ' Who are legitimately entitled.' Who was to decide what members where legitimately entitled? It would take an army of lawyers to settle that point. He might grow eloquent and poetic on the subject but he would forbear. If all the members would give up their claim to the. pound, he would give up his willingly, but not until then. As long as others drew theirs he should continue to draw his. The motion was then put and carried. MR WILSON'S LETTEE. The standing orders having been suspended. Mr Johnston moved (without notice— "Tbat the letter of of Mr H. Wilson, with reference to the report of the Road Engineer laid on the table on the previons day, be taken into consideration." He said he had brought the matter forward because he knew there was great dissatisfaction among the contractors at the way in which the making of the deviation portion of the Bluff Harbor and Invercargill Railway had been let, and some investigation was required. Mr T. M. Cleree seconded the motion. He did not approve of these kind of resolutions ; as a rule the House should not interfere in contractors com plaints, for if they did, the table would be inundated with letters of a similar description, however, in this instance, he thought there was some reason for the letter of Mr Wilson being discussed. It appeared to him from what he had heard, the Road Engineer had gone out of his way in drawing up his report, and by implication damaging the credit" of the contractor mentioned, for to report that he did not think he (Mr Wilson) could do it, was to imply that he had not means to obtain the plant required for the work. This was doing what no Government Engineer should do under any circumstances, and the matter required investigation. Mr Armstrong opposed the motion. He thought it was the duty of the Road Engineer to report upon all tenders, and if he was faithful in those reports, and complaints had to be made, it was the Executive, and not the Council that should investigate them. Dr Hodgkinson would oppose the motion. He thought it would be interfering with the functions of the Executive to an unjustifiable extent. Mr Calder would oppose the motion, as he looked upon such matters being discussed by the House as wrong in principle, aud most injurious in practice. It was essentially a matter for the Executive and not the Council, and it should never have been brought forward. If the members were to be ear-wigged by contractors, and their grievances, or^imaginary grievances, made subjects for debate in this House, there would be no end to the discussions that would ensue. The motion was put and lost without a division. RAILWAY SUPERVISION. Dr Hodgkinson rose to resume the debate, as set down in the Order Paper, " On the cost ot supervision of the railway works," by Mr Patterson, Engineer. He thought so much had been said on this matter that he felt somewhat in a mist, but he would say that Mr Patterson's demand was excessive, and he should oppose his offer being accepted until further information had been elicited from the Government. The Provincial Treasurer said he thought the memberrs must have been under some misapprehension as to the debate. A motion was before the House to the effect that the Council vote a sum of money to enable the Government to pay the salaries of efficient engineers and inspectors for the railway works, not to exceed £1,500. This had nothing to do with the offer of Mr Patterson ; it was simply to place tbe Government in a position to secure a full supervision of the works. The whole of the money might not be required. Mr Johnston would move as an amendment — "That Mr Conyers, the Eugineer of the Bluff Harbor and Invercargill Railway, be appointed to supervise the construction of the Oreti Railway." He thought that the offer of Mr Patterson could not be entertained for a moment. He thought the Province had already had enough of Mr Patterson, who had been well paid for doing scarcely anything at all. When he received the appointment to superintend the finishing of the Bluff Railway it was by tender, and what was the result ? Mr Patterson, instead of supe intending the work as it had been expected he would, sends down a young man who had been five years in an office in the colony, and was only about twenty-four years of age, to whom everything was left. Mr Simpson might have in tneory known something about railway making, but he could not, and did not in practice j yet to him was left the whole of the work. Mr Conyers was an efficient engineer, ; he knew every branch of railway work, and since the Bluff line had been under his charge it had been vastly improved. He believed that Mr (Jonyers, with competent inspectors, would see the work executed better than Mr Patterson nrould, and at a much smaller cost. Give that gentleman a moderate increase of salary, and good inspectors, and the work would be done well. Dr Monckton made a few remarks

condemnatory of Mr Patterson's offer. Mr Pearson said he rose to speak to the amendment, and hoped to put an end to the discussion. The question was simply should the Province pay so large a sum as that demanded by Mr Patterson for supervising the railway works. He said decidedly it should not. This gentleman had already received an immense sum for doing very little. He was sure there were gentlemen in the Province well qualified to do the work required equally as efficiently as Mr Patterson and his young inspectors. What had this gentleman done for the money that had already been paid him ? He had regularly paid visits when cheques were to be obtained or vouchers signed, and with equal regularity went away again. The House was told that to satisfy the General Government, an Engineer of reputation must be employed. Well, we had professional men , quite as competent for the work as Mr Patterson, and if it was desirable or necessary to obtain a colonial stamp for the work, let Mr Balfour, the Colonial Marine Engineer, be employed, and then we should have the genuine stair p of authority, and at a small cost. A long discussion ensued, in which most of the other members took part, and a multitude of suggestions and amendments were proposed. The feeling of the House was strongly against Mr Patterson being employed on any terms. The Provincial Treasurer in reply to a question, stated that the Government had never contemplated accepting the offer made. The motion of the Government for the appropriation of £1,500 for payment of supervision of the railways, with a few slight alterations, was put and carried. MR PATTERSON. Mr Calder obtained the suspension of Standing Orders, to enable him to move, " That the amount required by Mr. Patterson is excessive, and the Council does not approve of his being appointed on the terms, or any similar ones." He said the subject had been so thoroughly discussed no remarks were necessary. The Government knew the feeling of the House on the matter, and would doubtless pay attention to its views. Mr Pearson seconded the motion. After a few remarks from the Proyincial Treasurer and Mr Armstrong, the motion was put and carried. EXECUTIVE COUNCIL ORDINANCE. Mr Pearson asked leave to postpone the motion standing in his name until next sitting. Leave was granted. The House adjourned at 1.30 till 7.30 p.m.