PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Southland Times, Issue 1035, 9 October 1868, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

EOTJETH SESSION". & • MONDAY, sth OCTOBERj 1868. i EVENING- DIKING-. The house resumed this evening at 7.30. Present. — Messrs Blacklock, (Provincial Treasurer,) Armstrongs M'Clure, Monckton, Pearson, Basstian, Stewart, Clerke, Pratt, Ross, Johnston, Swale, Hately, Danielj Longuet, and Butler. SHEEP ASSESSMENT. Mr Stewaet asked the Provincial 1 Treasurer what was the state of the Sheep Assessment as prior to the collec- | tion of the Assessments of this year — what sum do these now amount to ; whether the amount has been placed to the separate account of the Sheep Assessment in the Bank, as the Government pledged should be done, upon the forma- | tion of the Sheep Board. | I The Peoti^ciai Tbeasttbeb. in reply j I laid a statement on the tabJe showing the position of the Sheep Assessment account in the Treasury books. The balance to the credit of the account at the periods alluded to in the question was sespectively £5 5s id> and £604 JUs lOd. Eegarding the second part of the question, he informed the hon. member that although the intromissions for the department were kept in a distinct account in the books, the monies collected were lodged to the general provincial account in the bank. No provision was made for the opening of a special account with the bank, and if he (the Treasurer) were to deposit to any account but the general one, he would not be able to draw upon it when required. It was therefore requisite that the sum should be placed to the credit of the provincial account, the Audit Act providing that all monies drawn by the Treasurer should be drawn upon that account — otherwise it would not be available for the payment of the officers of the department. He did not see how this was to be avoided, and would be happy to confer further on the matter with the hon. member, or other gentlemen representing the squatting interest, with a view to having the account in question placed in an entirely independent position. Mr Sttjabt said the money was collected for a specific purpose — the payment of the inspector — and considered it unfair that it should be at all mixed up with the general account, or applied to ordinary purposes. He had been informed that although there was this large balance in hand to the credit of the account, the inspector had recently applied for salary due, and had been unable to obtain it, presumably because thei c were no funds. The Pboytbtciali Tbeasubeb further explained that the inspectors salary was voted by the Council, in the same manner as that of other officials. It had not been paid because the last Appropriation Bill passed had now lapsed — not because there were no funds — and could not now be paid until the Bill to be brought in this session had been passed. PUBLIC WOBKS. Mr Clebke asked the Government to place on the table a return of all public works done without having been tendered for, since Ist May last. Mr M'Glttbe laid the required return on the table. OREH RAILWAY. Mr Clebke asked the Government what they intended to do with reference to the completion or otherwise of the Oreti Eailway. He said the matter remained shrouded in doabt and uncertairitv, and he thought it time the Government explained their policy with reference to this question. It would be well that the Council were in possession of the fullest information regarding the financial position of the Province. They all knew that the lowest tender for the completion of the line was very low, and if that tender wa^s still open for acceptance it might, have great influence in determining the action of the Council. The Pbovincial Tbeasitbeb — Would the hon. member state the amount of the tender ? Mr Cleeke— Some £15,000. The PsoviNCLjji Tbeasttbeb — Ho! ho ! This is something new Mr Speaker I was not previously aware the hon. member had been, present when the tenders were said to have been opened. Mr Ciebke — I will not allow the head of the Government to throw any imputations on my character — that can stand for itself. (Oh ! oh !) I became acquanted with the amount of the tender in the same manner as the members of the Government may have became aware of it, or anyone else, it was quite public, and freely spoken of throughout the town. The Pbotikciai. Tbeastjbeb — I threw no imputations on the hon. member's character, buf; he did not before explain how he became possessed of the information, and I repeat that the whole blame, if any, rests with the Council for interfering with the ordinary functions of the Executive. Had the Government had its own way nothing of the sort could possibly have happened. The Speaker, with the leave of the House, remarked that the members of the Government themselves did not appear to know what to do with the tenders, and it was at their request, or in consequence of their hesitating action, that the Council had interfered at all. As a member of the Council he must repudiate all blame. The Provincial Tbeasubeb, in reply to Mr Oierke's question, said the Government intended to call for fresh tenders whenever financial matters had been arranged so as to allow of such being done, and it was their intention then — unless the Council decided otherwise — to open the tenders in the usual way, in the presence of tenderers, and submit them to the Bail way Engineer. Mr Aemstbong would like to know where aud when the Spefker learned thai; the Executive " did not know what to do with the tenders."

The Speaker had learned it in the Council, when the Executive had referred the matter of opening the tenders to the Council. He could not remember any arrangement whereby the Council had reserved to itself the power of dealing with them. He remembered a resolution of last session, to which he referred the House, approving that no final arangements should be come to without the knowledge and consent of the Council, but nothing more, consequently the blame reverted to the Government. The Provincial Treasurer could not see how blame attached to the Government any more than anyone else. They had entrusted the documents to the keeping of a fixed servant in the usual way, and if they had been serruptitously. obtained from that officer it was simply a general calamity, which all had alike to regret. With regard to the calling for tenders when not in a posi- ] I tion to go on with . the Works, he would state that the. Government was anxious to ascertain the probable difference in cost incurred between cash and land payments, and that it was not unusual to accept tenders conditionally. The Government had placed the tenders unopened before the Council solely from a desire to acceed to what were considered its wishes, not from any inclination to shirk responsibility. Mr Armstrong said the Government were as much in earnest as ever to have the Northern line completed, and when in a position to do so would immediately call for fresh tenders, which they would not wait for the Council to open — unless it positively decided otherwise — but open themselves and decide at once. The Executive were not afraid of the Council, though desirous of gaining its approbation, and would act independently if occasion arose. The Speaker thought the hon. member out of order in some of his remarks, and his language threatening, he had never heard of any Executive in the colony speak in such difiant tones. Mr Armstrong thought the Speaker himself further out of order than ony one else. The Speaker insisted on his right to regulate the proceedings of the House, and he was justified in making the remarks he had made. The matter was allowed to drop. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Mr Pearson asked leave of absence for the remainder of the session, for Dr Hodgkinson and Mr W. H. Calder, the former, on account of ill-health, being unable to attend, and the latter requiring to be absent from the Province. Leave was granted. ORETI EAILWAY TENDERS. Mr Clerke moved-^-" That this Council views with alarm the evil consequences likely to accrue to this province from the fact that the tenders for the completion- of the Oreti Railway were surreptitiously removed from the custody of the Government, and opened, and they are of opinion that the case demands at the hands of the Government a vigorous and public investigation, with the view of criminally proceeding against any person or persons who may be so liable." He brought forward this motion, feeling it the duty of the Council, as representatives of the people, to give an expression- of its opinion regarding this disgraceful matter. He did not think the Government had taken sufficiently vigorous steps in the matter. They must have known, what every body else knew, that a certain contractor had been seen with a list of all the tenders with full particulars in his possession, and he ought at once to have been apprehended. He did not think such a step would have endangered the GoGovernment in any way, although they might probably argue such a course wouid have placed them in a false position. The matter was clearly one for magisterial enquiry. It was looked upon outside with feelings of horror and disgust. ■ It had cast a stain upon the whole province which would never be wiped out entirely, and it was but fair, even to those partially implicated, that the thing should be thoroughly sifted. He did not altogether blame the Clerk to the Superintendent. He did not believe him guilty, but he had, through giving way to a failing, been made the dupe of others ; he had probably been 'hocussed.' It was clearly the duty of the Government, however, to trace the matter out. They should have inquired in whose company the clerk was that night until he became unconscious, and then traced the further movements of such parties. Had this been promptly done the guilty person or persons would at this time have been in the Invercargill gaol, instead of being safely out of the province, after throwing upon it an odium it would never cast off. He felt strongly on this matter, arid must express himself as he felt, because of the rascality of the thing itself, and because, in considering it, two ugly questions were unavoidably presented to the mind, the first being — "Is this the first time such a thing has happened in Southland?" or "is it only the first time it has been found out?" The whole affair was humiliating in the extreme, and he trusted the Council would so express itself as to repudiate all blame, and, at the same time, its abhorence and regret for what had occurred. He was sorry to hear Mr Armstrong express that the executive were henceforth determined to do as they liked, whether it pleased the Council or not. [ If such was to be the case better have no | Couucil at all He had also been astonished to hear other members of the Government throw the whole blame of the affair upou the Couucil. He was of opinion that the Council had only taken up the subject of opening the tenders, in consideration of the long series of mistakes, or worse, which' had occurred in connection with such things in the past. He still thought the Government to blame, for some of their number a,t least must have been aware how very far the .officer entrusted with the custody of the

tenders had lately given way to a certain failing, and ought to have been aware that such documents were unsafe in charge of such a person. He thought the Deputy Superintendent and the clerk should each have had a key of the safe in which they were kept, in such a way that the papers could, only have been obtained when both were present. It was for these reasons — want of ordinary cave and prudence, that he censured the Government. Mr Johnstone, in seconding the motion, could not see how the Council was to blame. Probably neither any member of the Government nor any other human being could possibly have foreseen what happened. He thought it very illogical on the part of the Govern^ ment to argue that they could not be expected to anticipate accident, and in the same breath blame the Council for what had occurred. No harm could reasonably have been expected to ensue on simply placing the tenders on the Council table. With regard to the alleged failing of the Superintendent's Clerk, he must say that he, for one, had never heard of it before, still he did not look upon him as the guilty party. It was clear, however, that blame attached somewhere, and it was equally clear that it should be brought home to the right persons. He was therefore of opinion that some such motion as the one now before the House should be passed. Mr Dalrtmple had not intended addressing the House on this occasion, nor would he now say much. He remembered long ago reading JEsop's fable of the wolf and lamb drinking at the same stream. He thought Government was coming things the same way, blamine the Council — the lamb — for what itself had done. Of course, as a member of the Council, he must bear his share of the blame laid upon them. (The Provincial Treasurer — No, you are an exception.) Mr Dalrytnple was glad to hear it. He had been intimately acquainted with business proceedings for thirty-eight years, but in all that experience he had never met with anything equal to the recent affair — he did not know what to call it — was afraid to give it a name. He felt a difficulty in keeping cool when he saw a House like that shutting its doors upon the public and expelling reporters, during the transaction of purely public business. The Government knew months ago, they had not a shilling to spend. What on earth then, had made them advertise the railway ? Who would call for tenders to build a house when he had not a penny in his pocket. (A voice — anybody, if he had plenty of property.) He thought the whole action of the Government resembled more the manipulations of an expert at the pea and thimbles, than the straightforward dealings of an honest trader. A short time ago, he had warned the House against this railway mania, explaining as well as well as he could, how things were likely to turn out, then advising them to farm the money they had. The Provincial Treasurer had then got up quite coolly and said that plenty of money would be forthcoming to employ labor, to make roads, and to build rail"ways too. (A laugh.) You may laugh sir, continued the hon. member, but laughing won't do. Mr Basstian thought it would have been unfair to the contractors had the Government opened the tenders while not in a position to go on with the works. They ought to have given notice of an extension of time, say three or four months. The Council was right, therefore, in passing his resolution at former sitting, and although the result at present appeared a very disastrous one, it might yet turn out a very good one. It was but right that the Council should give those people the opportunity of taking their tenders home with them again, if they thought proper. Mr M'Clttre thought the Government justified in -every step they had taken. By the course they proposed they would save a whole season, and would be in a position to go on with the work as soon as funds would allow. It was quite usual for tenders to be accepted conditionally, and in the present case the contractors themselves were quite satisfied, having passed a resolution amongst themselves to that effect. Mr Armstrong felt inclined to sit still and say nothing. He was getting so accustomed to abuse he did not mind it much. Mr Dalrymple had spoken strongly, but his remarks were as false as they were flowery. (The Speaker thought false too strong a word to use in that House, and Mr Armstrong modified the expression accordingly.) Mr A; continued — Mr Dalrymple had, however, been a consistent oponent of the railway throughout, and it was only to be expected that he, and others who thought with him, should make the most of the unfortunate affair which had taken place. None of the supporters of the railway scheme had, however, seemed to think that the Government were to blame. With regard to Mr Ay liner's reputed failing, he might say that he himself had not been aware of it. He had always found Mr Ayltner .do anything he had to do well. That his duties were not heavy -was not his fault. He (Mr A.) was not in the habit of frequenting bars and such places where possibly Mr Clerke had noticed Mr Aylmer's "weakness. He should be inclined to regard ths present motion as one of -want of confidence, and thought the Council should be careful in imputiug anything to the Government, and wait until they had time to bring in a report on the subject. Mr Pearson had stated at the time Mr Basatain's motion was under discussion that the Government were, through no fault of their own, placed in a very awkward position with regard to the tenders. They had every reason to expect that necessary fun N would have been forthcomingfrom the General Government, the £42,000, wMuh had been borrowed in excess o;i account of the Province, but a pending ministerial crisis had temporarily. interfered with business. He thought they ought to get this money

or what land they opipor- 1 j tunity offered. It hail been just v,a tosa up whether Mr Staf^rd :pr out. he "had decided to remain iii, but- in the event of the other party getting in they might find their land revenue taken away and spent elsewhere. It was a falacy to suppose that each province would only be called upou tp pay according to its own debts. In tl|e event of provinces being which was almost certain, i%e i wKole land revenue of the colony would constitute a common fund and he spent without reference to locality in which raised. x>They should, therefore, take all they could get while there was a chance. He had thought it best, in conjunction with Mr Badstian, to place the case fully and honestly before the con-. tractors, and to allow time to see what should transpire at "Wellington. ;The contractors had met and considered the : matter, and were- satisfied. Had the proposed course been carried out, the lowest tender would most likely have been accepted, and there the matter, would have ended. He would not like to vote either for or against %c motion, and if put would leave the House. He thought probably that the object of the resolution was obtained by the discussion which had already ensued, and that it h<»-d better be withdrawn. It cast a slur on the Government, when there was nothing to show that the Government were not using every effort to have the matter sifted, and at the same time it was well it was brought forward as it showed the people the Council were alive to their duties. Mr Daniel would not support the motion until convinced Government deserved blame in the matter. After some further discussion, Mr Baestian, for the satisfaction of the house, would ask the Government whether they were taking steps to find the guilty parties. I The Provincial Treasurer replied in the affirmative, and the motion was then put in the following amended form:— " That this Council views with alarm the evil consequences likely to accrue to this province from the fact that the tenders for the completion of the Oreti Bailway were surrepitiously removed from the custody of the Government, and opened, and is gratified to learn that the Government is making a vigorous investigation, with the view of proceeding against any person or persons who may be liable." Mr Armstrong said the emendations made took away a great deal that was objectionable in the motion, but he was still of opinion tbat its discussion was injudicious, and might have a bad effect on the investigation being made. After some further explanation from Mr Blacklock, the motion was withdrawn. Mr Steuart asked the Secretary if it is this intention to cancel or temporarily suspend the order for the plant for the Winton Kailway, pending information being obtained as to the future financial prospects of the Province. The Provincial Treasurer replied that the Government had no intention of cancelling the order, although they had thought of suspending it, but that had not been done, as the order, being but a small one to a large firm, was probably by this time completed. Further, that a portion of the material was required although the "Winton line was not carried on, such as two steam cranes for the Bluff wharf, and machinery for turning railway wheels, work which they had now to send to Melbourne. Mr Pratt moved for a select committee, consisting of Messrs Eoss, T. M. Clerke, Armstrong and the mover, with power to call for persons and papers, to enquire into the general management and working of the B. H. and 1. Eailway, with the view of reducing the expenditure and offering greater inducement for goods traffic. He said his object was not to interfere with the Government, but rather to strengthen their hands. It was generally believed that the railway might be more economically worked. Mr Armstrong seconded the motion, which was carried. On the suggestion of the Provincial Treasurer Mr Basstian's name was added to the committee. Mr Pearson presented a petition from a number of the inhabitants of Taystreet, praying that a portion of the reserve proposed to be constituted an Hospital endowment, might be set apart for purposes of immigration. The petition was received and read. IMMIGRATION SCHEME. Dr Mongkt-on resumed the debate on Mr Pearson's Immigration resolutions. Although a strong advocate for immigration, he had been considerably startled by the magnitude of the scheme of Mr Pearson. From its details he concluded the Government were already in communication with some parties at home who were prepared to carry it out. Mr Daniel had expected the hon. member (Mr Pearson) would have said something about the adaptability of Stewart's Island for settlement. As he had said before, that island was qualified to maintain a large and flourishing population, provided the right sort of persona were sent out. The class he would like Co see there were capable of shipbulding, and conducting fisheries. The same class were the shipbuilders of Auckland and elsewhere, and were most valuable colonists. They would return a large revenue to the Province, not only through using the unequalled timber of the island in boat and shipbuilding, in exporting lumber, and such like, but in establishing and carryiug on whale and Other fisheries. It was disgraceful to this country, as well as a great loss, that vessels from other colonies should load ; with oil at our very doors. He learned that from Hobarton alone, there were nine vessels engaged in whaling and sealing on the coast of New Zealand, chiefly I off Stewart's Island. A few years ago, j there were three vessels belonging to the New Eiver, engaged in the oil trade, but now there were none. As showing that seals were plentiful, hemightstatethat recently a Maori boat, after a short trip, returned

with nearly 500 dn&J&ssosߧ£&S&k worth from 18|tol^ts iiffltißt&Eßnttttg^ rmt^^^hileffc^ereiwere plenl^o^BjMi $ hi^tiie waters far; superior to th<p^inon# ; of which so much was said, Snd^bftwhielfc so much was spent. He would say iiripoti the right class of men* and you will soon stop the importation of a great many articles of consumption for which money had now to be sent out of the ProvinceHe would give them the land free, and believed it would pay to do so ; the island would Buit the<n admirably, and they would make their fortunes. He hoped the Government would soon bring forward a scheme which would induce the" right sort to come and settle here. • Mr Pea.bson replied at . considerable 1 length. He agreed with Mr Daniel as to the suitability of Stewart's Island for Nova Scotian, or similar immigrants. He had no particular, bias for Germans, but still he thought them most desirable settlers, and that they would conduce greatly to the prosperity of the Proviiice. He recapitulated his arguments on the: labor question, and thought it would Be a good thing to give grants of land on deferred payments to working mennoir here, so that when employment was scarce tbey might occupy .their time no their own sections. The Pbovincial Tbeastjbeb was in favor of the general tenor of the resolutions, but thought so heavy a drain on the land revenue, within such a short time, might interfere with works of public utility. . : xv Mr Abmstrokg would support the resolutions if only to show his ktei«e desire to see the Province populated. He thought, however, they were castle building. After discussing a railway scheme, which there was not money to carry on, it seemed absurd to vote so large a sum for this purpose. Mr Pbatt disagreed with a large portion of the resolutions. He thought any scheme might be managed by the Gtovernment, and could not see the necessity for the creation of new Boards for every project introduced. The scheme already in operation was, in his opinion, sufficient for the requirements of the Province, and heunderstood thatanumber of immigrants were expected in November. If a Board was necessary he thought the Waste Land Board, not being overburdened with workji might manage it. Mr Pea.bson re-explained his object in placing the scheme in charge of a nonpolitical Board. He had no objection to the. Land Board taking charge of it. In defence of the Germans he said they had proved good colonists whereverintroduced. He would like to see the resolutions passed as an indication of our views to the General Assembly. The motion was then put ana carried on the voices, after having been amended to read, that payment of Ijhe £10,000 should only be made from monies raised from sales made from the block of land reserved for such purposes. -'■■**,-' Mr Pearson then moved— "That in the opinion of this Council, it is desirable that a special colonial scheme of Immigration, independent of any local efforts on the part of each province, should be at once undertaken by the General Government, (2) " That the Honorable the Colonial Secretary in 1862 published in the appendix to the journals of the House of Bepresentatives 1863, viz :— the introduction of immigrants by the issue of debentures, having ten years currency, to be given to any firm contracting with the G-overnment to select and ship immigrants to New Zealand. " That sections of land varying from 60 to 100 acres be given to such immigrants on landing, to be repaid by them together with the cost of their passage in instalments extending over a period of eight years. "That for the purpose of carrying oiit these resolutions, and Act of the General Legislature should be passed, enabling such provinces ..as deisred to take advantage of the scheme. "That the administration of all local arrangements connected with the scheme 09 vested in the Board of Immigration established in each province, to jrbich such immigrants be sent/ " That^copy of these resolutions be transmitted to His Honor the Superintendent and our Bepresentatives in the ' Assembly, W^ the request that they will use their utmost endeavors to obtain the initiation of such a scheme during the present session of the General Assembly." He would not detain the House by supporting this motion in a long address. He did not propose to confine the scheme to any nationality, his principle object being'tokell the land on deferred payments, by borrowing money on debentures running for 10 years at 6 per cent. He had no doubt Messrs Godefroy or some similar firm or firms would take up. such debentures, and send out the immigrants by whom the money, would be refunded, before it became due by the Government. Mr Longuet seconded" the motion pro forma. Mr Johnston thought the hon. member had wisely excluded the German element from this resolution, and that if we had any boon to offer it ought to be first offered to those of our own blood. We were under great obligations to Great Britian for protection, Ac., and should offer any advantages we had to give to her people first, fie believed in a mixed race, but would not like to see a large body of an alien race introduced too suddenly. Mr Aemstbong was afraid it would scarcely do to entrust the Bending out of immigrants to a mercantile firm, which was not likely to be very careful in its selection. He might as well order a ton of books without specifying their character. He" believed, however, that ; a colonial scheme was the best >; J&rthe provinces cried each other down /in* fhe immigration market. Southland nad suffered much in this way, not being represented at home. Ji - ; Mr Boss approved of the principle of the motion, but thought the province could manage it better than the General Government. He was in favor of Ger-

man immT»ranEs ; - ? ss :u they were more settled, in their habits than our own couoiirymenj who were much : given tc „ roaming about when they came to the •'■ -^ -•■-.••••■ Mr Dalbymple would like to see im--1 migration recommenced provided the right. clas3 came— the yeoman class ol our own country. If the sending out oi immigrants was entrusted to a firm we should most likely be supplied from German poorhouses.. If land was to be given away he thought those who were Sere already/ and had borne the burden and heat of the day should come in for & share. Mr Peabson replied that what was intended was to call the attention of the General Government to the fact that what we wanted was to have some firm at home willing to advance the money for passages. If a firm could be found in England so much the the better. Mr Da&ymple was mistaken in saying he wished to give the land away, he only wished to sell it. To see a family on every section of 50 acres or so. He did not want to see it pass into the hands-of speculators. The Cape of Good Hope and Queensland Bad both been supplied with ;•■ immigrants through Messrs Godefroy, and had found their selections most suitable. The same firm would no doubt be equally careful of our interests. The motion was then put and carried. Mr Dalbxmple withdrew his motion regarding Cattle Tresspas, a bill being before the house which would meet the case. ELECTION OF SUPEEDTTENDENT. Mr Dalbtmple moved—" That the manner of electing a Superintendent in , accordance with the 'New Provinces Act/ interferes most injuriously with the free and independent election of membrs of : Council in this Province, and does prevent eligible men from having a seat iii this Council, simply because they differ in opinion with the majority of the electors of a constituency as to who should be Superintendent. That there are instances whereby it would be impossible to elect a Superintendent by an absolute majority of the Provincial Council, without a compromise of prin- 1 ciple, and departure from that political! rectitude and independence which should - guide the public action of every member of this Council. That it is the opinion of this Council that the Superintendent of this Province should be elected in the manner prescribed by the ' Constitution Act' for the election of Superintendent of ; such Province. That the Representatives of Southland in the General Assembly be requested to give effect to these resolutions, by having a Bill passed for that purpose in the Colonial Legislature. That a copy of these resolutions be forwarded to the Honorable the Colonial Secretary." The hon. member introduced the motion in a speech of some length. Mr JoHKSTONE, in seconding the resolution, also spoke at length, but the fact that a Bill; now before the General ■, Assembly would probably Bupercede all action on this matter, seemed to divest the subject of all interest, and the motion was consequently carried without debate. The PaovpfCiAL Teeasubeb moved the second reading of the ' Tolls Ordinance,' • after which the House went into comr. mittee on the Bill, and passed it seriatimThe House adjourned at half-past 11 o'clock, until 7.30 next evening.