SOUTHLAND DEBTS ACTS.

Southland Times, Issue 1013, 31 August 1868, Page 3

SOUTHLAND DEBTS ACTS.

(From Hansard, sth August, 1868.)

Mr Dillon Bell moved For a return of all certificates issued by the AuditorGeneral under the provisions of the Southland Debt Acts showing the total amount certified to be due by that Province ; the date at which such total amount was recorded in the Treasury, or became known to the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer ; and whether any, and if so, what sum has been raised in exces3 of that amount. The return now asked for was with a view to ascertain the exact position of a sum of money which he could not help thinking had been put int6 the Public Debts Act of last year by mistake. He found when that Act came down to Otago, and was very much surprised to do so, that the schedule contained the following items in the £1,114,000 which the Colonial Treasurer was authorised to raise ; viz., first, a sum due under the Public Debts Act of £380,000; and secondly, a sum of £42,000 as due to the - General Government. He was perfectly well aware when he saw these sums that they were incorrect, as there was no such thing as a liability o f £42,000 over and above the other amount, but he supposed by some error this £42,000 had been placed in the schedule. When, however, he found that, notwithstanding the fact that there did not exist £380,000 of debt on one account, and £42,000 on the other, yet the Colonial Treasurer had raised in England the whole snm of £1,114,000, it became necessary that the House should be acquainted with the total amount of certificates the Auditor had given as to the liabilities of tho Provinces ; and secondly, what time this total became known to the Colonial Treasurer. His going further into the question would depend on the production of the papers, when probably he would find it necessary to request the further attention of the House to the subject ; but he should feel obliged to the Acting Treasurer, if he should so think fit, to explain to the House how this additional sum had. been raised, and what was proposed to be done with the money. For his part he imagined that if he had been in the positiou once more of Colonial Treasurer, and had an Act of this kind empowering him to raise money in England, he should have taken care not to raise money unless really due, and at any rate the honorable member would see that it would be very difficult, without a special appropriation of the House, to deal with the money. Under the Southland Provincial Debt Acts of 1865 and 1866, the liabilities were stated not to exceed £380,000 ; and if it should turn out on the certificate of the Auditor that the £42,000 was included in that sum, then it would be absolutely necessary that the House should have again under its review the raising of the latter sum and its application. He thought it only right and fair to call the attention of the Government to this fact, and perhaps the Acting Treasurer would not object to say whether a mistake had occurred in the schedule of the Act, as the course he (Mr Bell) should take on a future occasion must depend on the reply he received. Mr Hall said the Government would be very glad to accede to this request as far as possible, but he might state at once that the certificates issued by the Auditor covered £332,663 17s. Id., exclusive of interest to accrue, which, to the 3 1st December, was £59,811 Is. 3d., making a total of £392,444, a sum rather in excess of that stated by the honorable member. The Auditor's certificates came to the Treasury at the end of July, but the returns showing the sum originally due showed it to be very much in excess of the amount put down in the Public Debts Act. This original debt had been reduced by sales of waste lands in the Province of Southland. In the absence of the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer he was unable to state by what process the precise amount put down in the Public Debts Act was arrived at, as there were no records in the Treasury to enable the question to be answered. In reply to the latter part of the question, if a sum had been raised in excess of the amount required to pay off the Southland debt, it was obvious, as pointed out, that any sum so in excess could not be appropriated by the Government without special authority. The return would be furnished as soon as possible. Mr Stafford could hardly see how the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer could have had any exact knowledge as to the precise amount. The process of converting the debts was still going on when he went home. The Bank of Otago was a large creditor, and undertook to take land in

exchange for the certificates it held ; and all the certificates were not issued when Mr Fitzherbert went home, nor were they even now ; for he knew of one case where a private person, entitled to a certificate as a creditor of the Province of Southland, had never yet received it, and he was led to believe that such was not.an isolated case. The motion was agreed to.