HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Southland Times, Issue 1002, 12 August 1868, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Weditesdax, 15th July. The House met at 5 o'clock. The Speaker announced that the address in reply to his Excellency's speech had been presented, and that the Governor had been pleased to make a reply, which he read. Mr Cracroft Wilson, C.8., on leave given, asked the Defence Minister whether he had received any reliable information as to the attack on the redoubt at Patea, and if so, whether he had any objection to communicate it to the House. Col. Haultain said the only information yet received by the Government was contained in a short letter from Colonel M'Donnell to Col. G-orton, which he read to the House. Papers relating to Arbitration Courts were presented.. The Usury Bill, passed by the Legislative Council, was read a first time. Mr Stafford moved for leave to bring in a Bill intituled an Act to Establish Boad Districts, aDd generally to provide for roads and public works without the limits of boroughs. Leave was given, the Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be printed. Mr Beynold3 moved for a return shewing the cost of all Commissions appointed during the recess, and the fees and other allowances paid to individual members of these Commissions. Mr Stafford suggested that the wording of the resolution should be so altered as to include the Commission very recently appointed to inquire into the charge against Mr Kynnersley on the "West Coast. Mr Reynolds altered his resolution accordingly, and it was agreed to. Mr Hall obtained leave to bring in a bill to amend the Provincial | Audit Act. The Act passed in 1866 had j shown one or two defects, and the House j would no doubt see the desirability of amending these. Kef erring to clause 12 of the Act of 1866, it would be found that the obvious intention of the Act was that any Provincial Government should be allowed to -speadj — in— any financial year,, without special authority . from .the Provincial Legislature, a sum equal to one-twetitieth'of th 6 ordinary ' revenue of the province during the. proceeding year.. Thus, say the revenue to be £100,000, there was a margin of £«? ,000 given to the Executive. \He thought he was qnite correct in statingjthat to be the intention of ' the " Act's but his • attention^ as Treasurer, having been called to the fact that in one province an amount had been appropriated largely mrexeess of this proportionvof«the- revenue of -the preceding year, he was then told that the Act was interpreted tairiclude not merely ordinary revenue- but. .even any amount, .coming into the Provincial Exchequer by loans, j so that 1 if £100,000 had been borrowed, that' would- authorise the Government in the following year in spending another LSOOO without authority. It was clearly not the intention of the Act that the amount borrowed by a province in one year could be-the measure of the margin; allowed to the .Provincial ; Executive in. the next. <0n the point being referred . to. the Hon the AttorneyGeneral,' he had said that in strictness the Act miglit bear that interpretation ; and it w^s t.hecefore, now proposed to remove, this doubt. Agai% "the" Provincial authorities were required -to furnish

certain accounts to the General Government, but not in any particular form or time. The Government proposed to add words to say that they should furnish these accounts within thirty days of the termination of the quarter, and in such form as the Governor might prescribe. M.r Haughton trusted that when the Bill came before the House, the Acting Treasurer would take into consideration soniei other matters. There were very obscure readings in the Act of 1866, and he had known even Provincial Councillors to read the Bill very variously. One point he wished to draw attention to was, when the Superintendent expended money without an Appropriation Act, and the Council refused to sanction it, it seemed doubtful whether the Superintendent was liable to be surcharged with such expenditure and also incur the fine of LIOO. It appeared also doubtful whether the Superintendent became ex officio or personally liable, and he might refer here as a case in point to the case of the Superintendent of Otago, in which the opinion of the Council was divided on this legal view. Mr Ludiam suggested that the meaning and practical bearing of the words ' expenditure* contract, and engagement" in the Act of 1866,-flhould be made perfectly clear. Mr Borlase pointed out that there was another question, namely, as to the power of the Superintendent to delegate to any person the right to sign a war- ! rant during his unavoidable absence, the Bill was read a first time and ordered to be printed. Mr Graham moved for a return of sales of confiscated lands, between July 1, 1867, and June 30, 1868, specifying the province, locality, acreage, and amount received in each case. Also, for a return showing the outlays attending the management, sale, &c. of these lands. The motion was agreed to. Mr Stafford obtained leave of absence for Mr Fitzherberfc for six j weeks, on urgent public business. Mr Fitzherbert was expected by the Panama mail of next month. Mr Cracroft Wilson, C.8., brought up the report of the Select Committee on the petition of certain inhabitants of the city of Christchurch, praying for the amendment of clause 74 of the Resident Magistrates Act, 1867. Mr Cargill rose to a point of* order. He thought a principle was involved, which was not sufficiently met by the report. The petition was said to be invalid because one signature was not as it ought to be. He did not see that the informality of one signature should invalidate all the rest. A long discussion ensued as to the policy of rejecting a petition because one or two names attached were informal, but the Speaker ruling that it was informal the subject was allowed to drop.

On the motion of Mr Hall, the House went into committee to consider the motion that a temporary supply of £100,000 be granted. Mr Travers wished to point out that great inconvenience arose out of the mode of procedure which had been adopted for some years, and which was now being adopted with reference to the question of supply. It wa3 important that the financial statement of the Treasurer should be before the House at the earliest possible period after the commencement of the session ; but the excuse that had hitherto been offered was that the accounts of the country had not been made up till a considerable period after the commencement of the year, and that it could not therefore be made till the accounts had been made up. It appeared to him that the financial year should end on the 31st of May instead of the 30th June, and that an authority should be given to the Government to expend onetwentieth of the sum granted for the whole year without again applying to Parliament. Mr Hall said he agreed, to a considerable extent, with what had fallen from the hon member who had just sat down. He thought it would be well if the House could be placed in possession of the usual financial statement sooner than was at present the case. But it was found by the Government that, owing to the accounts not being made up, this was impracticable. He had, however, to object to the hon member using the word ' excuse.' The necessity for having the accounts was really the reason for the delay. (Mr Travers said that he only used the word ' excuse' in the Bense of reason;) As far as the members of the Government were concerned he could assure the House that the matter would not be lost sight of. The motion was agreed to. On the motion of Mr Eichmond, the House went into committee to consider leave, being, given, to. bring in a bill to regulate distillation in New Zealand, . and for granting- a duty .on spirits distilled in New Zealand. 'In committee, Mr ; Ludlatn said that he quite agreed with the .motion which the hon member had brought forward, and considered it a wise regulation that spirits should be allowed to be distilled in New Zealand. Distillation wa3 at present carried on- •■although- no -duty- was paid. Another thing which it would be desirable to introduce into this country, wduld.be the admission of Australian, wines. at a lower dutiable rate than is, at present charged on them. If this were effected it would be the means of introducing j into this country wines of a first-class quality/ On the other hand, if the; Australian colonies would make a reduction on the duties- at. •present imposed upon— New — Zealand - beer, — it - wouldstrengthen the commercial relations between the two. countries. , The-Austra-lian wines which would thus be brought to this>country would be superior to the English and foreign wines at present imported, Mr J.^O'NeiTl hoped that the Government would not assent to the proposition to reduce the duty on." wine. It would wear the appearance of class legislation and be 'unfair' to the working classes, j who seldom used Australian wines: Mr Richmond agreed with Mr O'Neill in objecting' to clas3 taxation, or rather he thought the educated and easy classes. But he differed from his honorable friend

in thinking that this could be effected by the tariff. The main consideration in a customs tariff must be the raising of a revenue, and it would be found impossible to use it as a means of graduated taxation* It was questionable whether, such a commercial treaty as Mr Ludlam proposed was one which would be considered constitutional. It would put England in the position of a less favored nation, and might not be assented to at home. Mr Graham wished the New Zealand Government could induce the Australian Government ,to receive our timber. A union between the two countries would be of great service to both, and the exchange of natural products would add to the prosperity of both. Mr Travers said that perhaps the Government would give the House some idea what effect this proposed Bill would have upon the revenue of the country, and also enlighten them somewhat upon what the machinery of the Bill will be which will carry it into effect. He would further ask how far the introduction of the proposed Bill would be the means of increasing the number of. the army of officials at present engaged in this country ; also what effect it would have on the general finance of the colony? Mr .Richmond doubted not that when the; hon. gentleman was appointed Commissioner of Customs, he would always be ready to give the fullest information and. statistics upon all subjects connected with his department. He would frankly confess that at present the G-overnment was not in a position to give the House such a statement as that which his hon. friend required. In a case where an experiment is thus to be tried, his hon. friend must know that it was impossible to give any reliable statistical statement. The army of officials about which his hon. friend had spoken would not be increased in the present year as the work would be done by the Customs' Department under the Commissioner of Customs, and the Secretary as Inspector of Distilleries. Mr Wood said that when this question was, on a previous occasion brought before the House, there were some who considered the duty of 8s on spirits distilled in the Colony as too high. He considered that if the duty were further reduced it would be likely to prove sufficient inducement for the employment both of capital and labour in distillation. It would tend to increase the growth of grain, especially barley, and he believed that legislation in this direction would be attended by beneficial results to the whole Colony. Mr Travers did not intend, by any remarks which had fallen from him, to rouse any ebullition of feeling on the part of the hon. the Commissioner for Customs, but only to mention certain points upon which he thought it was the duty of that honorable gentleman to enlighten the House. What would be the probable cost of working the bill which it was proposed to pass into law? Would the outlay requisite to carrying it into effect be justified by the return which it would bring to the revenue of the country? Mr Richmond said that the honorable member for Christchurch seemed to forget that the bill introduced no novelty. The law as it stood allowed distillation at the rate of duty now proposed. The bill embodied the regulations and penalties which the Government were before authorised to impose by Order in Council. The substance of the law was passed three years back, at the strong desire of the agricultural interest. The Government had never been sanguine that the illicit distillation at present carried on would be put an end to by the passing of the proposed Act. The only way in which distillation could be carried on and made remunerative would be on a smalL scale, and that would not answer for the revenue, — it would cost too much in supervision. He thought that nothing short of free manufacture would establish the industry in New Zealand. Before giving up the revenue on home manufactured spirits, a substitute must be found, and it was no time to be trying experiments with the country on her beam-ends in finance. Mr Burns was glad to see the matter brought before the House. The rate of duty at present levied was the stumbling block in the way of successful distillation. Until the duty was brought lower there could be no successful distillation carried on. Tbe resolution was ordered to be taken into consideration next sitting day. ne ; Pencarrow Lighthouse Land Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed . Mr Hall moved the . second reading of the Ferries and Bridges BilL He~said the Bill was for the purpose of preventing the evasion of tolls" at bridges and, ferries. It, provided that the. Go verhor could' declare the' Act to be 'inoperatioh, and, in .any ...disjarict not within a province, appoint some one .to exercise its powers ; in other cases the Superintendent, would dp so. The. Bill provided that no person should cross within one mile of any ferry or bridges^ and ferries. TEefe weremany livers in" the"country that at certain seasons of the year were impass-* ablt,.and,,ii{ was. desirable, in., order that bridges might be erected over them, that this 'payment should be secured.' If tolls were allowed to be, evaded in a particular district, the result would, be, .that that district would, be deprived of the benefit. An Act on this subject existed in Otago. The Bill" provided a penalty not exceeding £5 for the evasion of a toll:" 'After considerable discussion, the second reading was agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be committed. Col. Haultain moved the second reading of the Interpretation BU1 V Mr,Travers intimated hia intention of proposing an amendment in committee. The Bill was read a,, second ; .time ; and committed. The Hquse^then, .adjourned.