AFTERNOON SITTING.

Southland Times, Issue 885, 20 January 1868, Page 1

AF TERNOON SITTING.

THURSDAY, 9th JANUARY. The speaker took his seat at half-past twelve o'clock. After waiting for sometime, there not being a quorum present Mr Johnston drew the speaker's attention to the fact that the members present had waited the fifteen minutes required by the standing rules, when he (the speaker) declared the Council adjourned until one o'clock, and left the chair. A number of members arriving just at the moment, and excusing their lateness on the ground of the discrepancies existing between the different clocks of the town, Mr Speaker resumed his seat, warning hon." members, however, that their arrival ought to be regulated by the clock in the Council Chamber, and that in future he would adhere punctually to the rules with regard to time.. He would expect hon. members to attend promptly at the hour specified in the adjournment. The house then- proceeded to business. Present — Messrs Blaeklock (Provincial Treasurer) Armstrong, Monckton, M'Clure, Howell, Hately, Daniel, Dalrymple, Clerke, Johnston, Swale, Lumsden, Ross, Longuet, Pearson, Calder, and Wilson (Speaker.) After prayers, and the reading and confirmation of the minutes of previous sitting — COUTiESPONDENCE. The Speaker placed on the table a letter, and report from the Provincial Auditor, stating the amount of unauthorised expenditure for 1867 to be within the limits prescribed by the Act. LIABILITIES, CONFIRMATION ORDINANCE, 1867. "Mr Cleeke said, if in order, he would like to ask the Government why they had not laid on the table the correspondence with the General Government re lative to the last "Liabilities Confirmation Ordinance," which had been promised to Tbe supplied at previous sitting.

The Provincial Treasurer explained that the correspondence was ready to be laid before the Council at the time promised, but the debate of the previous evening had been so protracted that by the time it was over it was too late to bring forward the correspondence, he now, however, laid it on the table. Mr Clerke moved that the correspondence be read; read accordingly. Mr Clerke, referring to a portion of one of His Honor's letters to the Colonial Secretary, wherein it was stated that .the question of allowing the .Bank^of^^ South Wales cdmtnisaioii - on certain transactions at the rate of one per ceut, had passed the Provincial Council without a disentient voice ; would request the Clerk to the Council to turn up the minutes of the sitting referred to, as he felt certain that considerable opposition had been made to the allowauce at the time. © On referring to the minute book nothing could be found showing that any opposition had been made to the question of commission. Mr Blacklock volunteered an explanation to hon. members, who expressed themselves certain as having spoken against it, to the effect, that although one._or two members had objected at the time, no formal motion had. been made, and the question being carried without a division it appeared on the book as if carried unanimously, and. that consequently, judging from the minutes of Council, the Superintendent was justified in saying it had been passed without a dissenting voice. ROSLYN BUSH KO AD. Mr Swale in xnoving — "That a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, requesting j that the sum of £200 be put on the Estimates for repairing the Roslyn Bush Road." Said that he did so knowing the urgent necessity that existed for something being immediately done to repair and render viable the portion of road on which it was intended to expend the money* if it was obtained. Probably the name Roslyn Bush Road was not sufficiently explicit, or comprehensive enough to enable hon. members to understand how extensive the traffic was passing over the road in question. Not only was there a great deal of local traffic by the settlers of Boslyn, Long Bush, Rakahook, and Mabel District, but, draymen going to greater distances were in the habit of using it in order to avoid a very bad piece of the main road, which they could do by going along the dry ridge via Rakahook. and joiuing the East Boad again at Dacre. The district road had thus been cut up by extraneous traffic until it was utterly impassable, I and it was but fair that some portion of the expense of repairing it should be defrayed by public money. Mr JoHsrsTOjr seconded the motion, and in doing so explained .that the road in question was formed some five or six years ago, when works of that nature were apt to be hurredly done, the consequence was that the culverts were improperly built, and were now broken down aud useless. He thought the sum asked a very modest one, in fact quite inadequate to the purpose. j Mr Swale explained that it was the intention of the settlers of the surrounding districts to supplement any sum Government might grant either by money or labor. Mr Ltjmsden said this was the first time a question of this nature had come before the Council and should not be hurried ovei\ He thought the settlers ought to have availed themselves of the privileges of the "Roads Ordinance," formed a local Board and levied a rate upon themselves, and then came forward and asked the Government to subsidise their efforts. It was, however, plain that they (the settlers) took the right view of the matter, and were prepared to take steps in the right direction, as they had stated their willingness to assist. He thought this a fitting opportunity for the Council to refresh itself on the question, as it would no doubt come before them again. ' District road boards were working successfully in Otago. The settlers must arouse themselves to action and be prepared to tax themselves — the burden need not be heavy. The power to increase or lighten it would be always in their own hands. It seemed to him that District Boad Boards were what were required, notwithstanding the elaborate scheme of the member for Oterainika, whereby the whole power would be vested in the autocrat at Wellington. Mr Pearson said the hon member for Invercargill (Mr L.) must have been led away by his rather vivid imagination, or must bave a very hazy impression of what his (Mr Pearson's) resolutions were i intended to produce. It was evidently the enteation of Mr Swale to obtain a subsidy from Government to assist the settler's own efforts, which was precisely what his system aimed at. By having a central Board much expense was saved in working. District Boards had been tried in Victoria and proved a failure, the expenses, in some instances, (cited) exceeding the rates collected Mr Dalltmple said he could gather from what had been said by members of the Government lately, that they were willing to assist, by subsiding, the efforts of the settlers in the maintenance of side-roads, provided the management of the works were placed under the charge of the Provincial Engineer ; whichhe thought ' was quite right. He would like now

to hear the Government give a clear and ! distinct expression on the subject — say i they would give as much, or half as much, as 'was raised by local contribution. The Provincial TitEASiritEit said the custom hitherto had been to give a subsidy equal to one half the amount raised "by local effort. In the present case he would be willing to give £200 if 4he settlers raised £100, in consideration 1 of the road having been used so much for traffic not local. . Mr AuusmoxG thought the discussion of .. Jbhe. ; questioDu K^aJtp^9-.&er , "When the estimates' were before the House would be the proper time, and when the money, uecessary had been appropriated tor main roads. Ifc would then be seen how- much could be spared to divide among district roads. Me Swale said he totally disagreed with District Road Boards. It was all | very well to have a Board and tax a [ district for maintenance of a road which j was used by the settlers only, but it was I very different with the road in question, which was to all intents aud purposes a public highway. He was glad to hear that the Government was so liberally disposed. Not a penny of Government money had been spent on this road for the last six. or seven years, aud he thought the settlers were not asking too much now. As showing their willingness to h<;lp themselves he might mention that they had even put some hundreds of loads of facines on the main road without one penny from Government. The motion was carried on the voices. APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE, 186 S. The Provincial Treasurer asked leave to bring in a bill intituled the " Appropriation. Ordinance, 1863." Dit Moxcktcn" seconded. Leave granted, and Bill read a first, time. Second reading made an order of the day for next morning's sitting. •DEPARTMENTAL EETRENCHMENT. Mr Dalrymple asked the Government if it was their intention to bring forward any scheme of retrenchment in the' departmental expenditure of this Province. The Provincial Treasurer said the best answer he could give to the question would be found in the Bill just placed on the table. Mr Daluymple asked the Government if the Council of this Province has any control over the salaries of the Waste Land Department. The hon. member, in stating 'his reasons for putting the question said, that at last session but one a measure of retrenchment had been brought forward and reductions made in this department. He and the public outside believed that thereby a certain reduction in expenditure had been effected* It was subsequently found, however, that on the reccommendation of the Superintendent the action of the Council had been set aside by the authorities in Wellington, and the salaries of the officials had been maintained at their previous amount. Dr Menzies had brought the matter before the Legislative Council but was opposed by our , old friend Major Richardson, and defeated. He (Dr Menzies) had, however, taken the opinion of the Attoruey General on'the question,and was informed that the action taken to set aside the decision of the Council was illegal. He i wonld not further waste the time of the ] House, but simply put the question. The Provincial Treasurer. Yes. Mr Dalry.mtle. moved—" That in the opinion of this House the departmental expenditure of this Province is far too extravagant for the present population." The hon. member spoke at great length i on the necessity that existed for retrench- j ment on a large scale being carried out. | He would not like any officer of the Government to be underpaid, but he would do away altogether with unnecessary departments, and amalgamate others. From the bill just tabled it appeared that about £18,000 would be required for the year for purely Provincial purposes ; while, the General Government required some £10,0U0 more, raakiug £28,000 to be paid by a population not exceeding 8,000 souls, or something over £3 10s per head, which sum was doubled by the interest and sinking fund on the ; Provincial Debt. The hon member quoted extensively from Adam Smith's .Wealth of Nations, statistics showing the comparative cost of Government in different countries some hundred or .more years ago, especially dwelling on the cheap Government enjoyed by the early settlements of America — the Pilgrim .Fathers' Colonies. He instanced, the case of the Post Office here as being ruinously extravagant, costing some £SOO peranuuin. He said a similar office at home would bo conducted by some grocer or baker, in- connection with his other business, for £60 or £70. He also referred to the faci»- of there being three highly paid Resident Magistrate's within a short distauce of. each other. The one at Bluff being virtually within forty minutes of Invercargill. Other departments he could name were equally expensive, but he need say no more ; the whole was in fact monstrous, and he warned the Council that they must grapple with the question. It was. of the utmost importance, affecting their very existence. He was allied with no party in the Council, nor; did he bring forward the question for any party purpose, or with any personal object, but simply on its own merits. He 1 trusted Home member I would second it, that the opinion of the 1 Council might be obtained.

Mr Johjtstox, said he had pleasure in seconding the motion, but differed with the hon mover in the way he had used some ot' his figures. He should have separated^ charges incurred for purefy Governmental purpose, from those for other obieets, such as expenses ol Public Works .^Department, donations' to Hospital, and other Jtems. He would also demur to instituting unconditional comparsious between • .expenses of governing different countries at different times. The value, of .money at "the time had „ .3.lw.i>,y. s « jto^be^orirs '-.ittcmind^ f Afc Qnp : tlm^ " d a day' was a field -h {Tim's wag&s''* in England. Such a sum would scarcely do here. The cost of : commodities 1 had "' .always .to be borne in mind. He might instance the Provincial Treasurer's salary, which at one time was £500, and was now only £300; and yet he believed the £300 was us good a s.iiary, taking the cost of living at the different periods into consideration, as the larger amount. Mr Ami strong said he, would join any member who could show him where a salary* could be safely cut down or an office abolished. Mr M'Clure thought the best 7 . time to discuss the' point \vbuld be when the Estimates c:i me on,. "V % ; •■,■•'- : "-" Mr Luiis'DE^'th.buglit there : cbuld be no hh-vin in going; into ttVe matter now, as it would remind members that the" question of retrenchment wonld have to be kept in view when passing the Estimates. He thought the figures quoted by the hon. j member for Oreti fallacious in that they were inapplicable to our- case. A great part of the expense was- incidental" to the giving of self-governraen^'to a small community.*' While we wished to have that, we must be content to pay for it. He would have considered Mr Dairy mple's anguments unanswerable had he been discussing the question of re-annexation to Otago : 'as it was, they were' scarcely in point. He would, however/ support the motion. > - ;»;• i! - Mr Pbahsox spoke at considerable length on the subject, and quoted several paragraphs from De Toqueville,.a subse-quent-writer to Dr. Smith, explanatory of : the' causes conducing toil he cheapness 'of the government of the American settlements alluded to. He also^ instituted comparisons between the cost of government in the various provinces, from which it appeared that Southland was not the most expensive.' -: : -• . - ' Mr Dalbtmple replied, and the motion ■'. was carried. j • ; LICENSING: ORDINANCE. , Mr Blacklock moved that the further consideration of the Licensing Ordinance, be postponed; till. next morning's sittings — Carried.- .- . -.'.••:/ ■••■■: The- House then adjourned ti11, 7.30 p.m. . - , : . .'-,....