AFTERNOON SITTING.

Southland Times, Issue 881, 13 January 1868, Page 2

AFTERNOON SITTING.

THURSDAY, 9th JANUARY. The speaker took his seat at half-past twelve o'clock. After waiting for sometime, there not being a quorum present Mr Johnston drew the speaker's attention to the fact that the members present had waited the fifteen minutes required by the standing rules, when he (the speaker) declared the Council adjourned until one o'clock, and left the chair. A number of members arriving just at the moment, and excusing their lateness on the ground of the discrepancies existing between the different clocks of the town, Mr Speaker resumed his seat, warning hon. members, however, that their arrival ought to be regulated by the clock in the Council Chamber, and that in future he would adhere punctually to the rules with regard to time. He would expect hon. members to attend promptly at the hour specified in the adjournment. The house then proceeded to business. Present — Messrs Blacklock (Provincial Treasurer) Armstrong, Monckton, M'Clure, Howell, Hately, Daniel, Dalrymple, Clerke, Johnston, Swale, Lumsden, Ross, Longuet, Pearson, Calder, and "Wilson (Speaker.) After prayers, and the reading and confirmation of the minutes of previous Hitting — CORRESPONDENCE. The Speaker placed on the table a letter, and report from the Provincial Auditor, stating the amount of unauthorised expenditure for 1867 to be within the limits prescribed by the Act. LIABILITIES, CONFIRMATION ORDINANCE, 1867. Mr Clebke said, if in order, he would j like to ask the Government why they had not laid on the table the correspondence with the G-eneral Government relative to the last " Liabilities Confirmation Ordinance," which had been promised to be supplied at previous sitting. The Provincial Tbeastjkeb explained that the correspondence was ready to be laid before the Council at the time promised, but the debate of the previous evening had been so protracted that by the time it was over it was too late to bring forward the correspondence, he now, however, laid it on the table. Mr Ciebke moved that the correspondence be read ; read accordingly. Mr Clebke, referring to a portion of one of His Honor's letters to the Colonial Secretary, wherein it was stated that the tjuestion of allowing the Bank of New South Wales commission on certain

transactions at the rate of one per cent, had passed the Provincial Council without a disentient voice ; would request the Clerk to the Council to turn up the minutes of the sitting referred to, as he felt certain that considerable opposition had been made to the allowance at the time. jQn referring to the minute book nothingcotil^rbei'ound showing that any opposition had been made to the question of commission. Mr Blacklock volunteered an explanation to hon. members, who expressed themselves certain as having spoken against it, to the effect, that although one or two members had objected at the time, no formal motion had been made, and the question being carried without a division it appeared on the book as if carried unanimously, and that consequently, judging from the minutes of Council, the Superintendent was justified in saying it had been passed without a dissenting voice. ■ ROSL¥N BUSH ROAD. Mr Swale in moving — " That a res- J pectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, requesting that the sum of £200 be put on the Estimates for repairing the Eoslyn Bush Eoad." Said that he did so knowing the urgent necessity that existed for something being immediately done to repair and render viable the portion of road on which it was intended to expend -the money, if it was obtained. Probably the name Eoslyn Bush Eoad was not sufficiently explicit, or comprehensive enough to enable hon. members to understand how extensive the traffic was passing over the road in question. Not only was there a great deal of local traffic by the settlers of Eoslyn, Long Bush, Eakahook, and Mabel District, but, draymen going to greater distances were in the habit of using it in order to avoid a very bad piece of the main road, -which they could do by going along the dry ridge via Eakahook, and joining the East Eoad again at Dacre. The district road had thus been cut up by extraneous .traffic until it was utterly impassable, and it was but fairjihat some portion of the expensdrtofecepairing it should be defrayed by public money. Mr Johnston seconded the motion, and in doing so explained that the road in question was formed some five or six years ago, when works of that nature were apt to be hurredly done, the consequence was that the culverts were improperly built, and were now broken down and useless. He thought the sum asked a very modest one, in fact quite inadequate to the purpose. Mr Swale explained that it was the intention of the settlers of the surrounding districts to supplement any sum Government might grant either by money or labor. Mr Lttmsden said this was the first time a question of this nature had come before the Council and should not be hurried over. He thought the settlers ought to have availed themselves of the privileges of the " Eoads Ordinance," formed a local Board and levied a rate upon themselves, and then came forward and asked the Government to subsidise their efforts. It was, however, plain that they (the settlers) took the right view of the matter, and were prepared to take steps in the right direction, as they had stated their willingness to assist. He thought this a fitting opportunity for the Council to refresh itself on the question, as it would no doubt come before them again. District road boards were working successfully in Otago. The settlers must arouse themselves to action and be prepared to tax themselves — the burden need not be heavy. The power to increase or lighten it would be always in their own hands. It seemed to him that District Eoad Boards were what were required, notwithstanding the elaborate scheme of the member for Oteramika, whereby the whole power would be vested in the autocrat at Wellington. Mr Peabson said the hon. member for Invercargill (Mr L.) must have been led away by Ms rather vivid imagination, or must have a very hazy impression of what his (Mr Pearson's) resolutions were intended to produce. It was evidently the entention of Mr Swale to obtain a subsidy from G-overnment to assist the settler's own efforts, which was precisely what his system aimed at. By having a central Board much expense was saved in working. District Boards had been tried in Victoria and proved a failure, the expenses, in some instances, (cited) exceeding the rates collected Mr Dalltmple said he could gather from what had been said by members of the Government lately, that they were willing to assist, by subsiding, the efforts of the settlers in the maintenance of side-roads, provided the management of the works were placed under the charge of the Provincial Engineer j whichhe thought was quite right. He would like now to hear the Government give a clear and distinct expression on the subject — say they would give as much, or half as much, as was raised by local contribution. The Pbovincial Tbeastjbeb said the custom hitherto had been to give a subsidy equal to one half the amount raised by local effort. In the present case he would be willing to give £200 if the settlers raised ',£IOO, in consideration of the road having been used so much for traffic not local. Mr Abmstbong thought the discussion of the question altogether premature. When the estimates were before the House would be the proper time, and when the money necessary had been appropriated for main roads. It would then be seen how much could be spared to divide among district roads. . Mb Swale said he totally disagreed with District Eoad Boards. It was all very? well to have a Board and tax a district for maintenance of a road which was used by the settlers only, but it was very different with the road in question, which was to all intents and purposes a public highway. He was glad to hear that the Government was so liberally disposed. Not a penny of Government money had been spent on this road for

the last six or seven years, and he thought the settlers were not asking too much now. As showing their willingness to help themselves he might mention that they had even put some hundreds of loads of facines on the main road without one penny from Government. The motion was carried on the voices. APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE, 1868. , The Pbovincial Tbeastjbeb asked leave to bring in a bill intituled the " Appropriation Ordinance, 1868." Db Monckton seconded. Leave granted, and Bill read a first time. Second reading made an order of the day for next morning's sitting. DEPARTMENTAIi RETRENCHMENT. Mr Dalbymple asked the Government if it was their intention to bring forward any scheme of retrenchment in the departmental expenditure of this Proj The Pbovincial Tbeasttbeb said the best answer he could give to the question j would be found in the Bill just placed on the table. Mr Dalbtmple asked the Government if the Council of this Province has any control over the salaries of the Waste Land Department. The hon. member, in stating his reasons for putting the question said, that at last session but one a measure of retrenchment had been brought forward and reductions made in this department. He and the public outside believed that thereby a certain re- i duction. in expenditure had been effected, j It was subsequently found, however, that on the reccommendation of the Superintendent the action of the Council had been set aside by the authorities in Wellington, and the salaries of the officials had been maintained at their previous amount. Dr Menzies had brought the matter before the Legislative Council but was opposed by our old friend Major Eichardson, and defeated. He (Dr Menzies) had, however, taken the opinion of the Attorney General on the question,and was informed that the action taken to set aside the decision of the Council was illegal. He wonld not further waste the time of the House, but simply put the question. The Pbovincial Tbeasttbeb. Yes. Mr Dalbymple, moved — " That in the opinion of this House the departmental expenditure of this Province is far too extravagant for the present population." The hon. member spoke at great length on the necessity that existed for retrenchment on a large scale being carried out. He would not like any officer of the G-o---vernment to be underpaid, but he would do away altogether with unnecessary departments, and amalgamate others. From the bill just tabled it appeared that about £18,000 would be required for the year for purely Provincial purposes ; while the General Government required some £10,000 more, making £28,000 to be paid by a population not exceeding 8,000 souls, or something over £3 10s per head, which sum was doubled by the interest and sinking fund on the Provincial Debt. The hon member quoted extensively from Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, statistics showing the comparative cost of G-overnment in different countries some hundred or more years ago, especially dwelling on the cheap G-overnment enjoyed by the early settlements of America— the Pilgrim Fathers' Colonies. He instanced the case of the Post Office here as being ruinously extravagant, costing some £800 per annum. He said a similar office at home would be conducted by some grocer or baker, in connection with his other •business, for £60 or £70. He also referred to the fact of there being three highly paid Eesident Magistrate's within a short distance of each other. The one at Bluff being virtually within forty minutes of Invercargill. Other departments he could name were equally expensive, but he need say no more ; the whole was in fact monstrous, and he warned the Council that they must grapple with the question. It was of the utmost importance, affecting their very existence. He was allied with no party in the Council, nor did he bring forward the question for any party purpose, or with any personal object, but simply- on its own merits. He trusted some member would second it, that the opinion of the Council might be obtained. Mr Johnston, said he had pleasure in seconding the motion, but differed with the hon mover in the way he had used some of his figures. He should have separated charges incurred for purely Governmental purpose, from those for other obieets, such as expenses of Public Works Department, donations to Hospital, and other items. He would also demur to instituting unconditional comparsions expenses of governing different countries at different times. The value of money at the time had always to be borne in mind. At one time, a penny a day was a field hand's wages in England. Such a sum would scarcely do here. The cost of commodities had always to be borne in mind. He might instance the Provincial Treasurer's salary, which at one time was £500, and was now only £300 ; and yet he believed the £300 was as good a salary, taking the cost of living at the different periods into consideration, as the larger amount. Mr Abmstbong said he would join any member who could show him where a salary could be safely cut down or an office abolished. Mr M'Clitbe thought the best time to discuss the point would be when the Estimates came on. Mr Lfmsden thought there could be no harm in going into the matter now, as it would remind members that the question of retrenchment would have to be kept in view when passing the Estimates. He thought the figures quoted by the hon. member for Oreti fallacious in that they were inapplicable to our case. A great part of the expense was incidental to the giving of self-government to a small community. While we wished to have that, we must be content to pay for it. He would have considered Mr Dalrymple's anguments unanswerable had he been

discussing the question of re-annexation to Otago : as it was, they were scarcely in point. He would, however, support the motion. Mr Peabson spoke at considerable length on the subject, and quoted several paragraphs from De Toqueville, a subsequent writer to Dr. Smith, explanatory of the causes conducing to the cheapness of the government of the American settlements alluded to. He also instituted comparisons between the cost of government in the various provinces, from which it appeared that Southland was not the most expensive. Mr Dalbymple replied, and the motion was carried. LICENSING ORDINANCE. Mr Blacklock moved that the further consideration of the Licensing Ordinance be postponed till next morning's sitting. — Carried. The House then adjourned till 7.30 p.m. — •