TEE PROVINCIAL TEEASUEER AT THE THEATRE ROYAL.

Southland Times, Issue 711, 19 August 1867, Page 3

TEE PROVINCIAL TEEASUEER AT THE THEATRE ROYAL.

"Mr Cleske (the Provincial Treasurer) i-met the electors of the "Waihopai dis--trict, to render an account of his political conduct, whilst in the Council. The first part of his explanation was listened to with attention, but considerable dis:turbance was created towards the close rof the meeting. Mr Pratt was voted to the chair. Mr Clerke after making a few introductory remarks referred to statements made af a previous meeting by Mr BJaekilock relative to the action of _the government of whicn the latter; was the leading member. He (Mr C.) ■. characterised them as unsatisfactory, and said that the report of the Committee appointed by the Provincial Council had not been controverted—that certain things had been done for which no satisfactory explanation had been given — they remained a mystery to that day. The contract for the finishing of the Bluff Eaibr ay was supposed to be let for 25,000 acres of and, to be paid on the completion of the work. There was then a letter which had been much spoken of [the letter in terms of which Messrs Smyth, Hoyt & Co., agreed to forego all claims or. compensation on account of delay caused" by Dalgety & Co.'s line on No. 2 contract.] Mr Pearson when a member of the Council made great capital of it and insisted its effect would be that no claims for compensation could arise. But when he quitted the executive another construction was put on it (the letter) and they had been told that— by the advice of a lawyer— it had been set aside as of no value on the ground of no consideration having passed. If it. had "beenreally the intention however, from the firstto regard the letter as a mere form used for a certain purpose, there should have been oneto that effect from the government to Messrs Smyth, Hoyt & Co. As it was, their letter ought to have been filed as a government document — for although it had been said -there was no "consideration," he (Mr Clerke) thought a very sufficient one had been given in the concession of progress payments, &c. The contract was let in January 1866— -in June of that year the alterations were made— the contractors were let off the fencing, the Mokomoko branch, &c., in fact they 1 were let off altogether— (applause)— and received in every way a quid pro quo. Yet what was the consequence to the province. Mr Blacklock took credit to himself for having " arranged" a claim of £4700 by the payment of .£I2OO. Now he (Mr C.) would ask if any man. held a good enforcible claim for £4700, would he forego it for £1200? (Applause.) He (Mr C.) confessed he did not understand Mr Blacklock's explanations the other night on that platform any more than in the Council ; the only conclusion he could come to was that there had existed an intricate web of contracts made and broken and "arrangements" entered into, the precise i>earings of which, could only be known to those h*Ting knowledge of the motive

!*Tpower. (Applause.) He (Mr C.) would J tell the meeting the nature of the contract (?) of January 1866.; . It was a mass !,pf erasures and cofrections-r-it V/wajs'' in fact no contract at all,;, but. a mere memo■randum of agreement,. and there was no record of its acceptance. ! What he maintained was that if no tender in accordance .with the advertised- conditions had been received— -if the tender could- not have been accepted in . its entirety, another competition should have been invited. He (Mr C.) : believed the "contract" never saw a lawyer's office, but was just sent to Mr Marchanfc's office. As to theEcdes affair, Mr Blacklock had said that it was a <' mere assumption " fo assert "that if it could have' been managed by the Executive with the General Government the Council would have heard; no more about it." JHe would 'read extracts from minutes [proving that- the -matter of payment to Dr Eccles was under discussion, and ithat it was only when a certain difficulty presented itself 'that it was decided to call a "session extraordinary" of the Council]. He thought that showed that if it could have been avoided the matter would not have come before the Council. (Applause.) Another mistake they made was to throw the whole onus on" the Superintendent, for although they did riot say so in so many words, they led every man in the Council tb-believe that the arrangement was entered into by His Honor on his own account. The same with regard to the salaries [of the Waste Lands Department]. There was then Mr Blacklock's statement, " that when he left office the railway was paying. Singularly enough, when he (Mr Clerke") took office it was not. If the meeting were collectively to go to the Bluff by railway on a particular day the line might be said to pay [for that day] ; but it is not likely that they would do so often. Well, Mr B. had included, the traffic caused by the Governor's visit — one as little likely to recur :^frequenfly u as'f6r all present at • the meeting to agree to take trips together to the Bluff. (Applause.) Mr Blacklock had said that a certain party had broken pledges (hear, hear, with startling abruptness, from Mr Irvine), that they were traitors, &c, in the. matter of the railway resolutions. He (Mr B,) had spoken of a meeting at which Dr Hodgkinson was the only one who walked out. At that meeting Mr, Blacklock had said, " Oh, . we are only v talking about the matter," and ;; said nothing about a pledge, or he. (Mr !C.) would not have, stopped, as he did not wish to have his action trammelled. With respect ; to questions asked Mr Blacklock by an elector— whether if the resolutions had been passed the Superintendent could , not have' dealt with the 210,000 acres in the matter of contracts as with, 1000 acres — he (Mr C.) was distinctly of opinion that the Council would; have forfeited all controlling power. From the tenor of a letter by Dr Knight to the Colonial Secretary (letter read) it appeared that he. anticipated no difficulty iv obtaining a. tender for the completion of the Oreti line— that he thought the work could proceed without delay. As a matter of fact he (Mr Clerke) might admit that when the resolutions were pending in the Council he was undecided whether to assist in passing them, trusting to the promise of the Blacklock Executive to resign, or not. But when he, considered that it was competent for Superintendent to have kept them (the Blaeklock Executive) in office for a month, during which time they might have bound the province to any extravagant arrangement, he made up his mind and he was since glad he had . taken the course he did. ; t He : was favorable to , railway extension ((hearr r hear), but with- • put the "arrangements" or any of the — -r— (a. voice : " Shenanagin ") — Yes, that -would express it. He had been long impressed with the belief that the place, as a settlement, could not afford to await the tardy process of ordinary roadmaking, and really thought that if they could only contrive to get £1000 worth of work for £1000 the province would be benefited by more railways, but not otherwise. Mr Clerke closed his remarks by saying that should he be returned to the Provincial Council his bestj endeavors to forward the railways might be depended on— that ho would exercise due discretion, and trusted that next time all conditional tenders would be placed before the Council before acceptance. With regard the Superintendency he must decline to pledge himself— for one thing he would vote for no one opposed to railways (applause) He was now prepared to reply to questions. ;,-... The following questions and answers are taken from a.: number of others that ; were asked, but which are quite uninportant: — ?; . : ; •Mr levine — Mr Clerke, when you obtained office, did you or did you not object to move the promised resolution for a dissolution of the Council ? r Obiection being made to the question being put by a non-elector .of the Waihopai District, the Chairman ruled that it was out of order. r ; Mr Osboene objected to the Chairman's urling, and moved "-that any: gqntlemao ia the meeting asking a queatioa

j should be answered," which -was seconded • I aiid carried. He 'said it was in his rej coUectipn' ,;.that, the Chairman oin; L a farmer :■ occasion made no „ objection to, nbn-electors speaking. . ; - ■■■■■•■ .-■ IMr ; Clebke— (lir reply to Mr Irvine's question).' Yes,;; I 'did hesitate, 'as I. thought it would be better for another to move it. I felt some reluctance to move, in the matter. (Laughter.) ; y c ■-,, ! Mr C. H. Eeynolds— Did you not aiterid a meeting- at the Treasury, previous to the railway respiutiona being brought before the Council, , and approve of them? ■ ■■•■• ;■- :'■■■■ ■.■:>■■■ ! j Mr^CLEBKE —^Yes : — I did rot object to j them then, but upon after consideration ijsa'wthat they were premajure. They Vere being hurried through in one, night, when they should have had aweek's, consideration. ■ '•'■ JMr Eetitplds— Are you avare of the existence of a letter from t\e Colonial Secretary, Mr Stafford, unAr date 3rd August, stating that he coild. not set a^ide the land. in terms of the amendment? ■■'""' : j Mr'CLEEKE— ]STo, lam not. . I Mr. Eetwolds— Did yoa not- see a letter from the Colonial- Secretary to theProvincial Government under that date, and speak to me upon the subject this morning? ! l ; ; Mr. Clebke— r-In reference to the letter Mr. Eeynolds alludes to I thought. he had it from the Electoral Association. It appears that the gentlemen of the '* Times,' obtain information in advance of the Government. ■ | A voice — And quite right too. (Applause.) . . . . Mr Eeyitolds-^I obtained the information from the Electoral -Association. (Applause.) ; M.T.A.J. Smyth now came upon the platform, , amidst, , . cheering and .interruption. -He* saick — As Mr. Clerke had said much With reference to the contract between the' Government ancl Messrs Smyth, Hoyt and Coi,, he would., wish; to ask Mr. Clerke a few questions. ;lst.- — in the original contract did you not see any clause with reference to progress payments ? Ans.-^-ZSTo ; it was only, an agreement, drawn up in the railway station, Mr. Marchant's office, and was riot a regular contract. Mr. Smyth, in explanation, stated that : in January 1866, the Government called i for tenders for the completion of the Bluff- Harbor and inyercargill Eailway— I that Smythy Hoyt and Co.'s tender was accepted. A few days afterwards the contract was sighed. He had signed thirty-four plans,, arid an agreement of forty-four folios which he produced^ and ...from. it... read the progress payment clause. ]?our months was the stipulated • time for the completion of the works and we were prepared to carry it out, but the Government could not give.. possession of the line. When I commenced the work I had the Government in my own hands ; but knowing the cause of the difficulty that prevented them handing over that portion of the line (contract 2) we consented to the second agreement, which was the same as the first, with the exception that it excluded Messrs. Smyth, Hoyt and Co. for claiming special compensation for delay and breach of agreement that was caused. Mr. Clerke had stated that the line was not finished, and we now, would ask that gentleman if he. could point: out what part of the line was riot finished? Mr. Clerke— No ; I cannot, but there are no certificates of Completion. i.:: Mr. Smyth, in explanation, stated that there were certificates of completion,; but that theportion that was alluded to was part of contract No. 2, where it was thought advisable to depart from the original specification, with the intention of ultimately erecting a stone storm-. wall instead of the timber one. agreed for ; and for this Smyth, Hoyt and Co. allowed. £1,200 to be retained. The £1,700 claim was for actual cest of cartage, lighterage, &c, arising from the Government not being able to give possession of that portion of the line to which he had alluded. ''"... A voice — rHow many teams had you in use. Mr. Smyth — Some three, with three horses to each. A voce— Did the Government keep time against you. , -Mr. Smyth— No, it is not necessary. He then resumed his seat amidst much cheering. Avoice— What course would Mr Clerke pursue to secure the offer of the 210,000 acres. " '■ ■• - ; v-- : - :: --- ; •■■// . / ; No answer. : : •.:..' . ' Mr Eeese asked Mr Clerke — Did you not undertake to carry out the survey ot the lines ? A— yes. "Will you „. explain the reason that it has, riot been done. A — The Executiye and the Superintendent were not of one mind. We suggested that the ; Eailway Engineer, Mr Simpson, should be entrusted with the work. His Honor objected. We than mentioned Mr Paterson, to whom no objection was made,and we communicated with that gentlew | pian, but through illness, Mr Paterson had riot been able to come down. In answer to the question had an' agreement been

made with Mr Paterson; Mr Clerke saidi rib definite agreement had been' mtade ; it ,was left. over." until he cainQ ; i; 'I', ; Mr Be^olds^rAre-yQu ooita\v:are tKat. the Colonial Secretary objected to. advance any more money for surveying the'-n ortfr line on the ground that two .surveys had already been made ? ' , ..',,■ ]„ ' c ' Mr Clebke— Ye3. T : <: " ,' .•■ 0; : In answer, to a question, Mr Clebke stated, that a claim ..had been niade'for £7 per day for-professional; services by= a ; gentleman connected with the railways, but as the ; account was still unsettled, he did not "think he, should 'mention the n Hme. (Cries' of name, name ; was it Dundas.) If I must answer — yes it 'was*- ,: ! Mr T. Sloan— Will Mr Clerke telLus wihat the Government,' of which he is the ; head, done since they have bebn in office. ". (Loud laughter.) He could - not reply to, so indefinite a question. (Hisses; and groans.): This question was asked , ;Mr Eeynolds. asked if Mr. Clerke would now state who he would vote, for as Superintendent. Ans. — I say I will : not pledge myself to answer any question as to the. election of a Superintendent, further than tha"t I will support no one that is not an advocate of the railways. (Hisses.) . Mr Blacklock— Are you aware that plans and specifications for the completion of the Northern Line with iron rails have been made. Ans. — -No, but I believe the Provincial Engineer capable Sor the work, with the outlay of a couple cf hundreds for overtime. Mr Blacklock said Mr Patterson's opinion was the reverse of that, and stated that with the leave of the meeting he wOuld read a letter from, the Colonial Secretary, with reference to an assertion made by Mr Clerke, which, would prove its incorrectness. . . . • : i [Here a scene occurred that almost b|afles description. Mr Lumsderi, a member of the Executive, jumped up, and in a' most excitable manner protested against. Mr Blacklock addressing the. meeting at all. Immediately afterwards, owing to the calls of the audience for hispresence on the platform, he commenced crawling over the heads of the audience in a most extraordinary and ludicrous manner, known as " all fours j" his hat fell *>ff, his hair bristled' wildly about his face, which was of ghost-like paleness j. he" ■gesticulated in a violent manner, at Mr Blacklock, and the meeting commenced: hissing him to such an extent that remin ded one as if a legion of rattlesnakes were let lbose. Mr Blacklock now, in answer to the calls of the audience,; went . on the platform ; on advancing to the table to speak, he was loudly cheered. Mr Lumsden again became excited. Here the uproar became furious, in the midst of which ; Messts Kingsland and .Perkins appeared on /the platform, the first, urging the right of Mr; Blacklock to speak, the < latter looking nervously desirous of saying something, 1 but couldn't;' while Mr Eumsden in a faint state from over exertion, got possession of a.. chair, and acting on the urgent advice of his friends, sat down, and became somewhat calmer. After silence was restored, the Chairman ruled that if anyone was to . be heard in making a statement it was Mr Blacklock, but that gentleman had consented, owing, to his (the Chairman's) suggestion, to defer it until the questions had all been put.] ■;■".. ■■.■■■■;..'. . „ . • .. . Mr GrLMOTTB — In the event of your being returned to the Council, are you prepared to accept the office you now hold, should it be offered.to you. Mr Cleeke— Yes, certainly. Mr Gilmottb — When you first accepted office, you and your colleagues expressed a doubt of your own ability 'to manage the affairs of the Province, and urged that as a reason for a dissolution ; has your short experience , of official duties led you to alter your opinion. . : ..,, Mr Clebke — Yes, I don't find the duties -very heavy, and the office is comfortable and nice. Mr Gilmottb— l am an elector of the Woihopai District, and am anxious that we should return able men to the. Council. One of the local papers says we do not think for ourselves, I think that statement falsified by the fact that the two leading men in last Council, the Speaker and yourself, were returned by that district. I wish to maintain our prestige .and return capable men. In the event of Mr Blacklock regaining office, would you again bring forward a want of confidence motion. Mr Clebke — That depends on how he behaves himself. (Laughter.) Mr Gilmoue — But you have already, expressed an opinion regarding Mr. Blacklock's . fitness for office; would you not, for consistency's sake, feel bound to oppose him the moment he assumed office. Mr Clebke repeated his previous answer, which being objected to, the Chairman ruled it was sufficient. Mr Osboene asked Mr Clerke— Are you aware that Dr Knight recommended that land payments should be 'made : in 2000 blocks ; which would you prefer. Ansl, ~I certainly should prefer larger blocks, than 2000, as by that. system " spotting" would be encouraged, Ques^Would

you reject the railway fspi.enie : if the 20001 ?, adre blocks were insisted_upon. :JLns.r=T^ Jl tayeja : great. objeetipn. toi the/ smaljlj/. blocks, but would .takeTthat^rather than npt have the railways; ;; Qu.es. — Are you M favor of vote by : bail6tl. and if :i eldcted, Jwpuld you take ;act r i6n: A to obtain it. .'^|ns:-^Tes, as as' A' •■ few;::7pther' ;:unimijpirtant :t having begnjput.. '\^j '\'^ r ,'.^^':\l'.'.r I r.v jMr W. Peekins proposed, Mr Fredric^ ;. .*^ud^^ ( *That--in^the-opinioupof'-thiia--'T.- .Mi' Clerke; ia a^fitM^ p^dper'persbri ib Vepreseflt/thQ "^aiho^ai " •-■ District in the Council.',^ '. parried. J " ", j Mr Blacklock now attempted to address:, the meeting,' but. the!. Chaubmap'. ? quickly left the chair,' after, a yate,. of" a tJiarika.^had been • tendered^~and- the^ proceedings . abruptly terminated. ~ - r ''