PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Southland Times, Issue 679, 5 June 1867, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

— ■ — ♦ MONDAY, 3rd JUNE, 1867. The speaker toot the chair at 7 p.m. Present, Messrs Howell, Cowan, Toshack, Nurse, Boyd, Armstrong, Blacklock, "Wood, Clerke, Clark, Lunisden, Boss, Swale, Johnston, Menzies, Cuthbertson and Hodgkinson. The minutes of previous meeting were read and confirmed. * Two notices of motion by Mr Lumsden (relative to the railway projects) having Deen tabled. Mr Clebke after an expression of regret that the duty Jiad not fallen to abler hands, announced that lie had succeeded in forming a new Executive which had been accepted by His Honor. He stated that his associates and himself only took office on the distinct understanding that a resolution requesting His Honor to recommend to His. Excellency to disBolve the Council would be passed, which they (the Executive) would recommend to- His Honor to forward to the proper quarter. They were in the meantime agreed to act only as a provisional Go- j vernment to make no depart- i mental changes— unless absolutely necessary- — and to place on the estimates a sum for the preliminary survey, -of the Eastern line. They hoped in this way to have things in a tangible shape by the next session of the Council. He might mention that the Government comprised Messrs Lumsden, Ross and "Wood, he (Mr Clerke) holding office as Provincial Treasurer and Secretary. He would defer further explanation until the Executive, change was gazetted in due form. Mr Ltjhsdes- said he believed his own views with regard to the Railway question were pretty well understood, but he might say a few words in explanation of ' what he might call the conservative policy by which they were actuated. In the interview with His Honor,the latter was given distinctly to understand that the new executive would endorse a resolution for a dissolution — it was perhaps unnecessary to state the opinions His Honor expressed, as he agreed to. forward the resolution in accordance,, with constitutional usage. He (Mr-L) had rather to refer to the action of the previous Government, which asked for -st." carte blanche in. the disposal of 2 10,000 acres of land — without check of any kind. He considered the plans were not laid before the Council in a way to induce them to give such untrammelled powers to any Government, even under the- supposition that the General Government would provide for some check. But practically the past Government had asked the Council to abrogate its own functions— to accede to what was more like imperialist practice than that of constitutional Government. The propo- , gition of the Companies was^ in effect, " we will; buy "160,000 acres of land, if such a railway is made." A similar proposition might be made by any private purchaser of land, "who wanted a piece of road made, to the .value or £500 to £5,000. It was a proposal of such an exceptional nature, that they could not accept it without due consideration of what national advantages were to be gained to balance such a departure from rule. The Companies were prepared to do much, and the Council had:, -been told not to stand at a few thousands— -the Province was to be to the Company as Jonah to the whale, but he feared, with such implicittrust, it would be turned out at last a mere\ skeleton. The magnitude, and nature of their propositions" should exact the greatest caution, and,although he was favorable.to the formatjjon c of 'a .railway,, he was not blind to the fact that, it was possible to pay too much for one; He (Mr L) had not for- ' gotten the " old railway mania, .qr. the action of a capricious public, 7 Many, were present in the Council "who knew how ardently r both public and Council had urged on '.works, had v said " strike the , iron! while it . is hot, - don't lose the golden, opportunity," and so forth, but when a crisis came • these same persons^ turned round and reproached the rashness of the government! There should be at least unanimity before proceeding with such gigantic works ; but hie saw opposed to them a party representing an interest second in importance to none in the province; and their arguments were at last deserving of serious consideration. Remembering the censure lavished on the last occasion, the question " why did the gentleman at the head of the government, not veto the extravagant proposals," he (Mr L) was on the iodk-'out to avoid the old pitfalls- —

he was not so green as to. walk amongthem. Having regard to general and not merely local interests, the Council should have in its possession the documents necessary to shew the advisability of carrying out the works as proposed, in a constitutional manner. He trusted the young government would be met with forbearance by the Council. From inexperience they might be apt to make blunders, but in the endeavor to do their best to conduct the business of the province in a proper manner ; he hoped they would not either expose themselves to the charges of rashness, dishonesty or carelessness. [Some little delay took place at this stage of the proceedings, the members of the former government having retained their usual seats at the head of the Council table— the impression having obtained that the new executive should not formally *' take possession " until gazetted. It having been decided otherwise, a . change of seats ensued.] Mr Lumsden in reply to an hon. member, explained that Ms Honor was opposed to a dissolution, he did not say distinctly that he would not forward the recommendation, but that he would certainly cause it to be accompanied by such an expression of opinion as to the dangerous results with regard to the railway scheme, which might follow its being carried into effect, that he had little doubt the Stafford Government would refuse to consent to a dissolution. The Executive was however led to understand that if his Honor did not recommend a dissolution, the responsibility rested with him, they on their part as honest men were bound in good faith to the Council to recommend the dissolution. The ; Speaker pointed out that the motion for a dissolution was not before the House. Mr BiiACKLOCK laid on the table a letter just received from the Colonial | Secretary relative to the Oreti Railway, ; and moved that it be read. The following is an abstract of its provisions: — The General Government approved the prin- : ciple of completing the work on the following conditions. 1. Land to be given in payment at the rate of one acre for ! every £1 value of work. 2. The contract price to be the cost as estimated by an engineer appointed by the Provincial and General Governments. 3. The land to be taken by the contractor in blocks of not less than 2000 acres, unsurveyed land. 4. Progress payments on certificate of Engineer.. 5. The provisions of the Waste Lands Act to be adhered to in respect of frontages of land selected. 6. That the Provincial Council recommend a grant of 60,000 acres of land for the purpose. Mr Clerke tTien. moved "that a re-, spectful address be presented to his Honor, requesting him to recommend His Excellency the Governor to dissolve the Council as early as possible after the close of the present session." In support of the motion he said its- object was the. cardinal point in the policy of: the present government, it had long been apparent to everyone that a dissolution was necessary, and although he had felt some diffidence in forming a government, not being conversant with the routine business, yet he had felt it a duty to accept office provisionally. ' The province had long suffered, severely from the impossibility of forming an executive with ease. As the Council was at present constituted no matter what Executive held office — or whatsoever grave differences existed on points of policy, it 'could not be put out owing to- the difficulty of forming another. Under such circumstances there was the possibility of the government becoming careless of public opinion. Moreover, on the" railway question they were in possession of very insufficient information, and although he was in favor of railways it" was a questionfor the eleetor"s,theprßsent Councii having been elected on the special question of the Superintendency, and not in view of such works! Certainly new members had come in to fill vacancies since> but' a '.patched- lip Council could not so well represent public opinion on a .ques^on of the kind before thp IJouse as one newly elected. Mr Wood, in a few remarks, endorsed" the J - views expressed by the Provincial Treasurer. . .; Mr CpWAS". believed the motion wouldreceive the unanimous support of lion members; and believed it would result ir the reconstruction of the Council within three months. ■■■•■ ;.. Mr CuthbertsOjS" would, support the motion— the difficulty of forming a new Government had long been apparent, and in fact, a similar resolution was lost last session against a majority of 1. Mr Toshack would support the motion on the same, grounds. ;. Mr Johnston said there were many arguments to be urged in favor of the motion, which might be based on facts that he hoped no hon member would then allude to. Dr HoD.GKmsojr did not .think the public interest was consulted by the motion, but regarded it simply as the fruit of a political intrigue, the winding up of a plot which had been hatching since last session, and ridiculed the rea-

son assigned by the new Executive for taking office — designating it as an admission of incapability. The hon member then proceeded amid some laughter, to. state in the most unreserved manner, his estimate of the qualifications and antecedents of the respective members of the new Executive and the opposition. Afterwards he declared the object sought to be obtained was £the removal of the J Superintendent; for whose intellectual and moral status the hon member professed a profound respect. Mr Aemstbong agreed with the remarks of the hon member for Eiverton, and stigmatised the motion as part of the Macchievellian policy of a class whose tact could not be too much admired, in having succeeded in shelving an important question, and making use of other members as tools. He thought that to press the motion would have a most injurious effect, although if the resolution I proposed by the previous Government had been passed, he would not have | cared so much. He thought he should walk out if it came to a division. Mr Lumsdej* characterised the remarks of the hon member for Eiverton | (Dr Hodgkinson), as in bad taste, and thought he did wrongly in endeavoring to cast a slur on those who took office in the face of the difficulty of forming an Executive. In allusion to Dr H's imputation of plotting, Mr Lumsden hinted that their so-called " conspiracy " had possibly had the effect of breaking I up some other conspiracy. He concluded by expressing regret that the late Govemment did not ask His Honor to adopt the constitutional practice of asking His Excellency to refer such an important question as that of railways, to the country. Mr Aemstrox'G considered the question was settled. Mr Lttmsden went on to say that he did not apprehend any injurious delay from the course proposed —he had more faith in railways than to suppose they would be lost to the country. He was perhaps sometimes slow in taking a bargain, but at all events he had the satisfaction of having his money in: his pocket, with the reflection that " there were as good fish in the sea as ever, came out of it." The Wellington government would at anyrate give them the credit of acting a's good business men, and in the end he was convinced that calm consideration would shew that they did as they ought under the circumstances. A wholesome opposition was essential to responsible Government, and he; only retained his seat in the Council, wnilst in failing health, under a deep sense of public duty. He hoped that the conduct of tho Executive of which he was a member would be creditable to thjsm, and concluded by remarking that he should refrain from comment on what had been said respecting the head of the government. > ■ Mr Blacclook defended the late government, and said they acted in accordance with the instructions of the General Government. It mattered little whether what they did was^ unbusinesslike or not provided they attained the object sought. As to their having asked for extraordinary powers, they had not done so- — hon members appeared to forget the "Railway Commission Ordinance." Until their resolution was passed, no further negociations could take place; of what use then would be a survey of the line when the Company might turn round and renounce the scheme. He asserted that the present movement ,was not a repetition of the old Railway mania, and pointed ,„ out. that the difficulties which then arose came from the Province not having funds, ]ust as a merchant who ordered goods and paid for them by bills would be embarrassed if he could not get money. But in the present instance they had beforehand^ the funds provided, (in land) so that it was impossible for the works to come to a standstill on that acpount. It was clear that the object of the resolution '■ was to remove the Superintendent, they (the Executive) having offered to retire, but he (Mr B) did not know where they would get a better one, or one able to do more for the Province ..thjin was, done under his roof. No matter how irksome their position might be under' the General Government, no matter though they had to eat humble pie, jif they could only get on. - \\ Dr Mebtzies denied that undue delay would be caused, and explained that the •crash, of three years ago was caused, not asiM'r Blacklock hadstated, but through the works costing more than estimated, and the non-sale of debentures. He regretted that the hon. member for Eiverton should have allowed himself to make the allusions he had, and compared the conduct of the hon. member to that of the automaton Justice in one of Cruickshank's books ; these, when wound up, were made to say ' (referring to the ordinary charges that came before them), to the one — "Riotous young man, I regret to see the position you are placed in ;" the other (to the policemen) "you must be drunk." The hon member, "(Dr Hodgkinson) for one year and a half a member of the Govern nent, only coming up to town for the session, acted as one of those antoma-

tons, invariably expressing on the one hand, admiration of the Government, and on the other, horror of the obstructives (Laughter.) The motion was then put and carried on the voices. • The House then went into committee on the " Sheep Ordinance 1866, Amendment Ordinance, 1867." Mr Nurse . taking charge . of thek bill. The . alterations were of a technical nature only, and intended to supply certain ommissions. The other business on the order paper either lapsed, or was postponed, with the exception of Mr_ Cuthbertson's motion, for the " consideration of report of/committee on salaries in the "Waste Lands Department. The report after a brief discussion was adopted without a division,' Messrs Blacklock, Armstrong, - and Dr Hodgkinson expressing their opinion that the matter was merely one of punctilio. The House adjourned at 10.30, to the next evening-