PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Southland Times, Issue 627, 4 February 1867, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

THURSDAY, JAN. 31. EVENING SITTING. The Speaker took the chair at 7.15 p.m. Present.— The Speaker,. Messrs Lumsden, Swale, Clerke, Johnston, Howell, Wood, Blacklock, Crerar, Menzies, Armstrong, Toshack, Nurse, Clark, Pearson, Cowan, Hodgkinson, and Ciithbertson. After prayers, the minutes of the previous sitting were read and confirmed. |. r l)r Bf#dgkinson laid on the table the report of the select committee on the desiitdSility of completing the Northern Railway as far as Winton, and leasing both lines for a term of years. Read ; and its adoption made an order of the day for the next sitting. The Provincial Treasurer said that before proceeding to the business on the order paper, he would inform the Council of the decision come to by the Government since asking for an adjournment last evening. After reviewing their position the Government found that they could not fix the responsibility of forming another upon any individual member. The Government had acted throughout this session with a great degree .of openness, and although some hon. members disputed their management of the public affairs, they were not predisposed to take umbrage at any member on that account. The Government were quite aware that the action of hon. members last night was for the purpose of effecting a certain object. This matter was so apparent that the Government thought they would tafee time to consider what course it was advisable to pursue under the circumstances. For the future it was the intention of the Government to conduct the business of that House in a stiictly constitutional manner, and if they found at any time that they had not a clear working majority, they should resign whenever they could fix the responsibility of forming an Executive upon any member. Mr Armstrong complained that the opposition to the Government was conducted in an un-English manner, one hon. member standing forward and giving a blow, then retiring, to be followed by another in the same manner. He would merely point out to hon. members that they would benefit their constituents and the province much more by lending a helping hand to the Government. A message from His Honor the Superintendent was announced, which was as follows : — Message No. 4. To the Provincial Council of the Province of Southland, — The Superintendent encloses herewith a letter from Messrs Reynolds & Co., the present contractors for the Provincial Government printing, and in compliance with the request contained therein, recommends that Mr C. H. Reynolds be heard at the bar of the Council Chamber. (Signed) Jno. P. Taylor, Superintendent. Superintendent's Office, Southland, 31st Jan., 1867. The following is the letter referred to in His Honor's message : — " « Southland Times,' Office, " Invercargill, 21st Jan., 1867. " His Honor the Superintendent. " Sir, — We have the honor to request that your Government will recommend to the Provincial Council the necessity of the attendance of our managing partner, Mr C. H. Reynolds, at the bar of the Provincial Council to explain certain inaccuracies that have appeared in the report of the Printing Committee, and on the subject of the printing contract generally. " We have the honor to be, sir, " Your most obedt. servants, " Reynolds & Co." r It was resolved that the message should be taken into consideration in "connection with the report of the Printing Committee. : - Dr Hodgkinson after hearing the explanation of the Government, withdrew his motion, — " That it is the opinion of this Council that there are no sufficient [ grounds for taking any such action as would lead to a resignation of the present Executive." Dr Hodgketsom" in moving — " That in the opinion of this Council it is desirable that the Executive should, without delay, obtain from the Railway Engineer a report, giving full information as to value and nature of the works on the Bluff Harbor and InTercargill, and on the Oreti Railways, respectively, and should then advertise for tenders from contractors for the completion of the Oreti line, and the working of the two lines in conjunction for a term of years, on conditions stated, and with stipulations that the Provincial Government shall have power to resume both lines on certain dates stated, and on the payment to the contractors of such a sum as shall be mutually agreed upon," explained that since he had given notice of that motion, the railway committee had held another meeting and given in its report. Under these circumstances he would not press the motion, but allow the matter to be taken up when the report was considered. If, however, hon. members wished to discuss the matter at present he should leave his motion. , Agreed to be withdrawn. iMr Wood's motion that the sum of £150 be placed upon the estimates for the Campbelltown road was again postponed^. 7 .-,.. - Printing contract. ;sfr Lxtmsden ill moving " That the Repprjtr of the Printing Committee be taken into consideration," explained that it r would be necessary to refer to a few facts in making that motion. What had i directed his attention more particularly to the question of printing was the publication of the accepted and rejected tenders in the " Gazette " of October last. He couldn't understand how the prices for jobbing were vastly higher in the

rejected than in the accepted tender, and thought there must W something at the bottom of it. On enquiry, he found. the price in the accepted tenders were much higher for that description of work of which the Government required most, and he (Mr L.) suspected that the loss on one schedule would be mafce up by the profit on the other. The quality of paper on which the Government documents were printed was not according to the specifications. Instead of being the makers size of foolscap, up to a certain weight, it was the common news paper cut down to the size. Another fact was that the length of page had been gradually diminishing. This was the' most serious matter, the quality of paper was not so important. The hon. gentleman then referred to the \ alterations and erasures rcade in the accepted tender, and said that matter j required explanation- He (Mr L.) next took the advertising contract. The price per inch at which the advertising was accepted was a very low one ; but at the same time he noticed in to-day's paper that a Government advertisement was spread over a much larger space than was actually necessary. But the Government while accepting one tender gave advertisements to the other paper at the old scale. Th%t was one way how the printing account came to such a large amount. He would therefore move that the report be adopted. Mr "Wood said it was desired to have one, of the interested parties before the bar of the House. If they were to have any evidence given on the other side, they should pause until they heard both sides, and they would be better able to form an opinion on the subject. Mr Armstrong suggested that the report should be again read, which was agreed to. The Provincial Treasurer would refer to a few of the items mentioned by his colleague the hon. member for Invercargill (Mr Lumsden). The hon. member ! had said that the accepted tender was, in fact, higher than the rejected one. Such was not the case. The only method the Government could adopt in deciding the matter was by putting marks opposite to the various items, but in doing so they also took the quantities into consideration. The number of marks was in favor of the accepted tenderers. As they were not experts, they could not adopt any other plan. As to the quality of paper, shortness of page, &c, the House would not object to hear the explanation of the successful tenderer at the bar of the House. With regard to the contract for advertising, the Government were aware that the accepted tender was a very low one. Notwithstanding that, it was necessary to insert certain , advertisements in a weekly paper which had a circulation in the country districts. These referred to sales of townships, and were paid for at the rate of the tender of the proprietors of the " Times." Since then the proprietors of that journal declined to accept advertisements any other way than at scale rate. The alteration of figures in the accepted tender was not a very serious matter. It was quite customary, and he had seen it done in documents conveying large properties. If they were initialed, it was quite legal. To show that the present contractors had got no great catch, they had asked the Government to free them from the contract, stating that it did not pay them. That showed the Government were not paying an extra price. He would move that the recommendation in His Honor's message be acceded to. Mr Armstrong seconded. They should not decide against the printer hastily. It was only just and proper that he should be heard in his defence. After some further discussion, it was decided that Mr Reynolds should be heard at the Bar of the House. That gentleman made a long explanation, which may be summed up as follows : — That the deductions of the committee were fallacious — that Mr Lumsden's assertions were inaccurate — that no partiality was shown by the Government in deciding the tender — that it mattered very little whether pages were an inch long or short, in consequence of blank pages being charged — that the usual rule adopted in other provinces is to give advertisements to the paper that had the largest circulation — and that the deviations from the specifications were quite immaterial, and did not entail more additional expense than about 30s per annum to the Government. Mr Reynolds was listened to throughout with attention, was thanked by the Speaker, and retired.

THE ESTIMATES. The Provincial Treasurer stated that during the past financial year circumstances had arisen in connection with the affairs of the Province that required explanation, more especially those having reference to the items' ordinarily coming under the head of " unauthorised expenditure." Hon. members would recollect that since the last sessionjan Audit Act had been passed by the General Assembly, which contained a clause — a very|stringent and a very just one — against the expenditure of moneys that had not received the authority of the Council. He (the speaker) contended that in small communities like this — where the elasticity of the revenue was not remarkable—where the chief supply depended upon the Customs three-eighths, and other local items — such as dog tax, publicans licenses, &c, — where there was an absence of land revenue — the source, he (the Hon. Treasurer) might say, from which hitherto the supply was derived for all necessary public works — that the supreme legislature had exeicised a wise and discriminating judgment in affirming that all public moneys should be first appropriated for the particular object for which they were intended, and not otherwise. This course would, however, incur some trouble, as the Auditor's duties would become not only increasingly arduous, but matters that might have escaped the notice of the Council, and which the Government might see the necessity of carrying out,

hitherto withoutparticular thought, would, under the new system, become extremely difficult of accomplishment. He (the Treasurer) would now briefly make allusion to Schedule B of the Appropriation Ordinance. The items under this head were to enable payment being | made under the Audit, Act of amounts due, nearly all formerly appropriated, but which could not actually be paid fore the Audit Act came into operation. The same remark might be applied to Schedule C and D. (The hon. member here entered into a long explanation with reference to the items contained in the above schedules), and then continued — The estimated revenue for the year 1867 will to a considerable extent, by a wise system of economy , exceed the expenditure, an d he (the speaker) will endeavor to classify it under its various headings, in order to 1 simplify as much as possible. In the first place then the Customs revenue is at a fair and reasonable calculation, estimated to yield the sum of £14,000; the last year it realised upwards of £12,000* and since the increased tariff has come into operation, it would largely increase the duty on every article of consumption ; the sum mentioned above might fairly be calculated upon. Under the head of Pilotage the amount is set down at £700, last year the sum of £587 waa realised. The Dog Tax is estimated at the sum of £600, and there is no ground for supposing that a large sum will be obtained. The sum of £150, it is calculated, will be raised from cattle sales and branding fees. -Although not a strict item of revenue, yet the sum of £400 placed under the heading of " Fines" under the Sheep Ordinance; last year they amounted to £455. Cemetery fees will reach about £50 ; also the sum of £10 from weights and measures. Whether it may be regarded .as a sign of prosperity or not (the hon. speaker said), nevertheless the large amount of £800 is calculated to be realised from publican's licenses. Number* of houses that were formerly . closed are now being re- opened, and applications are daily being made for new licenses. The revenue derived from the accommodationhouse licenses is put down at £500 ; last year it was £450. Auction and special licenses cannot fall short of £100 ; hawkers, grocers, and wholesale licenses will realise about £510. The immigrants bills will possibly realise about £600, exclusive of the cost of collection. There are only a few other items, such as rent of ferries, £300 ; jetty tonage dues, £100j Eiverton jetty, £125 ; and miscellaneous, £700, — this item realised last year, £1092 14s Bd. In conclusion, I now move that the Appropriation Ordinance, 1867, be read a first time ; and I trust I may be permitted to observe that a calm and, patient investigation will be made in every item of expenditure, and that no unnecessary impediment will be thrown in the way of the Government in carrying those measures necessaiy for the public interest, and for the general good of the Province. Mr Clerke asked the Government if they would support the report of the Entrenchment Committee in its main features. Mr Armstrong reminded the hon. member for Waihopai that he woul^ have to give notice in order to ask this quesstion. Mr Clerke moved the suspension of standing order 27, to enable him to ask the question. Agreed to. Mr Armstrong : Yes : as far as the Government consider it expedient and to the public interest. Mr Pearson suggested that the report of the " smallest amount of sustenance" committee should be read .over again, in order to refresh the memories of members. Seconded by Dr Hodgkinson. The report having been read, Mr Pearson entered into the consideration of the report. He said it would Jbe well to determine at once if the entire recommendation of the report should be taken into account. If; the committee had wished to consolidate departments they should have put the Gaol under the charge of the Commissioner of Police. It could have been efficiently managed by that officer. In doing away entirely with, the New Eiver service they would have to depend upon the Bluff Harbor and Invercargill Railway. If an accident were to take place to that line they would be placed in a very awkward position. He (Mr P.) thought that: provision should be made for a pilot at the Heads. Mr Cowan did not see the necessity of going into that matter, as it was already provided for on the Estimates. The Speaker : The hon. gentleman in possession of the House is quite in order. Mr Pearson continued, that in the[ report the salary to one member, of the Waste Land Board was recommended to be discontinued. He (Mr P.) had stated before the committee that it was necessary to pay one party in order to ensure a quorum at their meetings. There were only two salaried officials on the Waste Land Board, and the quorum consisted of three members. With regard to the warden on the goldfields, he would merely say that the fees derived up to the present time nearly paid the salary of that officer. If there was no provision made by the Provincial Government for the goldfields the General Government would tafe» all the fees. Taking the whole matter into consideration, the probability was that the benefit to be derived from the adoption of the report would not be so considerable as the committee thought. It was not advisable to irritate the feelings of individuals, as the public service would not be enhanced thereby. The practical result would be that the £689 odd proposed to be saved by reductions in salaries would be more than lost to the Province, and $hey would never be able to tell how. It might appear peculiar for him to take up the defenceof the Government officials:" As for himself, it was a matter of small consequence as he was happily independent ox a re ?

duction of £50 in his salary ; but it was those officials who had the misfortune to have families — as he held it was a misfortune if they were not in a position to keep them properly — that would suffer most. He (Mr jI P.) was quite prepared to pitch his tent in the Feejees, in Japan, or in any of the South American colonies where there is plenty of good hunting ground, and he fancied that, from his colonial experience, he was a very good adept at hunting. As a general rule eyery Government official ought to be an educated man. That took a long time and cost their parents a large sum of money. They were therefore entitled to expect a good return for that expenditure of time and money. In this Province the amount of trust reposed in the officials was very great indeed for the simple reason that they had never been in a position to keep a sufficient number of clerks to pick up the thread of the business in each department. If that thread were lost through the resignation of any of the officials in the various departments, and he held that snch a result was not at all improbable if the reductions in salaries recommended in the report were acted upon — the results to the Province would be disastrous. There were only the head and one clerk in each department, and the responsibilities they had to undertake were very great. He maintained that the Provincial Government service of Southland had been singularly fortunate in obtaining a class of officials so singularly able and trustworthy. The hon. gentleman then gave some statistics as to the amounts paid for bodily labor, and asserted that it was much higher than they were paying for intellectual labor. They could not obtain clerks to take the places of the present officials, if they determined to seek " pastures new." The next question was, what prospect had "they to offer to those officials? In a bank or in a merchant's office a clerk had a career before him. In the civil service at home if a clerk was honest and attentive he was certain to rise to a position. It was a constancy, with a certainty of obtaining a pension at a given time. Here, each time the Council met, the officials were liable to have their salaries reduced, and when the winter of old age came on they had not even a workhouse for them to go to. They knew they could not support a benevolent asylum. He maintained that the cost of living was higher here than in any of the other provinces of New Zealand, and the salaries were lowest. The hon. gentleman then referred to the time when a member of officials were paid off, and after a considerable delay their salaries paid in greenbacks — to the profit of the storekeepers, who would only take them at a heavy discount — to prove that they had been treated harshly, and had suffered from the depression. In countries which were cheaply governed, particularly Austria, Russia, and Prussia, a system of bribery and corruption prevailed to a very great extent. If they gave men less than they could live upon, they must expect that they would not do their work honestly. Mr Pearson then -referred to the Land Department in Dunedin, in. which there were ten officials employed and there was no more land sold, and the records were not more difficult to keep than here. The trifling reduction recommended in the police department could not effect much good. The efficiency of the staff prevented criminals from coming here. The hon. gentleman then referred to some remarks made by the hon. member for Rosslyn (Mr Johnston) when addressing his constituents in reference to that department. He (Mr P) believed the gentleman referred to had not enquired into the subject, or he would never have made the statements which he did. Under the present system of Government he knew that the defence of government officials was unpopular. He did not ask any member of that Council to take that unpopularity. He was quite prepared to do so. When he looked round that House he felt convinced that he looked upon the faces of men who would never prostitute justice at the shrine of popularity. The hon. gentleman resumed his seat after having spoken for more than an hour. The House then went into committee on the Appropriation Ordinance, 1867. After some discussion it was agreed to vote the supplies for six months only, so that, if the affairs of the Province should be in a more prosperous state at the expiration of that period, the salaries at present reduced might be raised to the amount at which they stood at the end of the year. A discussion took place on the first item of reduction, which resulted in 13 voting for, and 4 against it. The amounts thereafter taken into consideration were generally agreed to as they were printed. A stand was made against the reduction of 6d per day in the salaries of Police Sergeants, but on a division the reduction was carried by 9 to 7. Progress having been reported the House adjourned at 12.50 a.m. till 11 o'clock next day.

FBIDAY, Ist FEBTJARY, The Speaker took the chair shortly after 11 a.m. Present Messrs Blacklock, (Provincial Treasurer,) Wilson (Speaker) Clerke Armstrong, Crerar, Cowan, Clark, Howell, Cuthbertson, Hodgkinson, Lumsden, Johnston, Pearson, Nurse and Dr Menzies. The minutes after the rectification of a clerical error respecting the adoption of the Audit "Report, were confirmed. Mr Cowan obtained leave to ask the G-overnment with respect to a clause of the Cattle Branding Ordinance 1862 authorising the levy of a tax on sales of Cattle, but which had remained in abeyance, whether it was intended to hereafter enforce it, the Commissioner of Police who was also acting as Registrar of Brands having in one ori;wo instances of late made applicatioitfor it. The Provincial Treasurer replied that

the Government did not intend to levy under the Act, as it had«been so long in abeyance. Dr Hodgkinson moved^the adoption of the report of the Oreti Railway Committee. It appeared the Committee had not been unanimous in their recommendations, and that a protest had been made by one of the members, but not noted in the Report. The protest was read and by consent appended. A long discussion ensued. Ultimately the report was adopted on the expressed condition that the consent of the Council was to be obtained prior to the acceptance of any offers. Mr Cuthbertson then moved " that the report of the Audit Committee be taken into consideration and adopted." The Provincial Treasurer made an explanatory statement. After a brief discussion, the report was adopted. The House then went into Committee on the Estimates. In the Hospital department certain reductions were made, and a sum voted to cover the present cost of management for three months. After that time a contribution in aid — the institution to be transferred into the hands of the public. Mr Pearson asked the Government whether there was auy intention to remove the Harbor Master at the Bluff. The Provincial Treasurer replied that the report was unfounded. A long discussion took place, the Government declining to disclose their intentions. Ultimately Mr Clerke gave notice of motion on the subject. The New River Harbor department supplies were voted for three months, and a subsidy of £105 for a Pilot and two boatmen, for the next three months. £50 was voted as salary for one member of the Waste Land Board. A lively conversation took place on the item £500 to defray the expense necessary for the proper reception of the Governor. The sum was passed on the understanding that the General Government would refund "reasonable expenses." The Chairman then reported progress. »

Evening Sitting. The Speaker took the chair shortlyafter 7 p.m. Mr Lumsden pursuant to notice, moved a series of resolutions bearing on the education question, and explained that the defects observable in the bill submitted by the Government were to some extent remedied by the clauses he proposed. As, however, the Bill had only been in the hands of members since the previous evening, it was probable that many other deficiencies would have to be supplied in committee. The consideration of the clauses was agreed upon. Mr Cuthbertson moved that the liabilities of the Town Board be undertaken by the Provincial Goverument. After some discussion a committee was appointed to inquire into the subject. Message No. 5, from His Honor, was then received and read. Mr Clerke moved that no change be made in the Harbor Master's department the Bluff. The motion was put and carried. The House then went into committee on the estimates, and after some alterations had been made, an adjournment took place.

SATTTBDAY, 2nd FEBI7ABY. The Council met at 11 o'clock to-day, when an address to his Honor, requesting, that the sum of £100 be placed on the Estimate to do necessary works to the Steamer Southland was agreed to. Also for the" sum of <£lf>o for painting and repairing the Provincial Government buildings. The House then went into committee on the Appropriation Ordinance, when the various amounts having been filled up, progress was reported, and the third reading made an order of the day for next sitting. The Provincial Liabilities Confirmation Ordinance passed a second reading, and was likewise made an order of the day for the next sitting. The Education Amendment Ordinance, after the addition of a series of amendments and alterations, proposed by Mr Lumsden, passed a second reading, to be read a third time at next sitting. The House then adjourned at 1.50 p.m. till 2.30 p.m. On resuming, the before-mentioned bill's were read a third time and passed, and the Provincial Treasurer moved, seconded by Mr Armstrong, that the House adjourn for a fortnight, to be prorogued at that date by notice in a Gazette.

The following is Mr Diifident's speech at a presentation supper : — " Ladies and gentlemen— l beg pardon. (Laughter) Mr Chairman, ladies — ladies and gentlemen. (Cheers.) In returning — in rising to return, ladies and gentlemen — in returning my sincere thanks for the great and distinguished, though merited— (laughter) — unmerited — (cheers ) — honor you haye — I have just — -just conferred — (laughter and cheers) — permit me to say that I I beg to assure, ladies and gentlemen, that nothing I can say on the present occasion can sufficiently express my — your sense of my kindness — (loud applause and laughter) — will kindle a most — I can assure you, ladies and gentlemen, this is — -this is the happiest moment of my life — (renewed applause) and in — in returning — returning from the bottom of my heart — (cheers)— it is perhaps unnecessary — unnecessary to say anything — (cries of 'go on') — and I trust I have said nothing — (laughter) — nothing on the present occasion that— but I'll not detain you — ladies and gentlemen — (yea, yes, go on') — and by saying that — have said more than I intend to say on the present occasion— (hear, hear) — I . can only say that — that in returning my sincere thanks, I — l beg most sincerely to thank you." (The speaker, on resuming his seat was rewarded by several rounds of applause.)