PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
TUESDAY, 29th JAN. 1867. The Speaker took the chair shortly after 7 p.m. Present — Messrs Johnston, Swale, Lumsden, Clerke, Clark, Tosback,, Pearson, Wood, Blacklock (Provincial Treasurer), "Wilson (Speaker), Crerar, Nurse and Drs Hodgkinson and Menzies. On the minutes of the preceding sitting as read by the clerk of the Council" was engrossed, a resolution passed by the Chamber of Commerce— transmitted to His Honor the Superintendent — and brought under the notice of the Council by the Provincial Treasurer in an informal manner (pointed, out at the time by the hon. member for Longwoad.) The Speaker pointed out the impropriety of what had been done and said any recommendation should have been presented as a message from His Honor. In the form in which it had been advanced it was disrespectful to the House. The Provincial Treasurer said it had not been intended to have the resolution placed on the minutes. Mr Wood moved and Mr Clerke seconded that the paragraph in the sninutes referred to be struck out. Carried. The minutes as amended were then confirmed. Message prom His Honor the Superintendent. No. 2. To the Provincial Council of the Province of Southland. The Superintendent begs to transmit to the Provincial Council the " Appropriation Ordinance, 1867," and recommends the Council to make provision for the specific services mentioned therein. Jno. P. Taylor. Superintendent. Superintendent's Office, Southland, 29th Jan., 1867. The Provincial Treasurer then moved — " That the Appropriation Ordinance 1867 be read a first time." Carried and the bill made an order of the day for second reading at the next evening sitting. Mr Armstrong, pursuant to notice, moved — " That in the opinion of this Council it is expedient to make provision in the Southland Waste Land Aet^ 1865, for regulating the sale and leasing of Mineral Land. That it is also expedient to repeal section 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, and 83 of the same Act, relating to the management of timber lands and to substitute other provision. That it is expedient to adopt the pro visions of the Otago Waste Land Act, 1866, relating to the management of mineral and timber lands, which provisions are contained in the 53rd. 54th, 55th 56th, 57th, 59th, 60th, 66th, and 116 th, 117 th, 119 th, 120 th and 121 st, sections of the Act. That in addition to, and subject to these pi'ovisions, the Waste Land Board should be empowered to make bye-laws for the more efficient management of timber land. That it is also expedient to confer a right of pre-emption, at the upset price, upon persons who shall have before the 30th NoTemher, 1866, settled and made improvements upon land in Stewart's Island, a right of pre-emption over such land, and a block of five acres circumjacent thereto, at the upset price. That power should be given to the Waste Land Board, with the consent of the Superintendent and Executive Council, to sell Town Lands (except those within the limits of Invercargill, Campbelltown, and Eiverton), without selling them by auction and at the same price as the upset price at auction. That trustees of religious bodies should be permitted to purchase sites, not exceeding an acre, in town, for Church purposes, at the upset price, such sale to be made by the Board, with the advice and consent of the Superintendent and Executive Council. The hon. member explained that the alterations and additions proposed in the resolution were taken from 4he Otago regulations. The Provincial Treasurer in seconding the resolutions stated that as regarded timber the existing law was not found to work well and by leaving power to the Waste Land Board to make regulations applicable to the circumstances of different districts a great advantage would be gained. Mr Lumsden said that with the information in his possession he should oppose the resolution. Perhaps, however, the government could explain the reasons for the alterations. Mr Armstrong with reference to the fifth clause of the resolution said it was to give occupiers at the time of sale of town lands the opportunity to purchase at the " average " not at the " upset " price as misprinted. This was allowed by the old regulations, but had been omitted from the new. Mr Wood considered the power sought was unnecessary and perhaps not very safe. There was a well-known method of arranging the difficulty foreseen which was when any land was sold at auction with buildings upon it, the purchaser had to pay the owner for them at valuation in addition to the price of the land. Dr Menzies asked upon what recommendation the resolution had been brought forward. He had himself recommended the insertion of clauses relaring to mineral lands as likely to lead to the development of mining industry, but was not aware of any other. He asked the hon. member the question because it seemed to him (Dr M.) that the mineral clause might have passed
without challenge, while on the other clauses there was a possibility of discussion. Mr Armstrong repeated his previous explanation. Mr Peabson said that as the suggestion came from himself, or rather the Waste Land Board seeing the defects of the existing regulations, thought it would be well to introduce amendments for the consideration of the General Assembly. As regarded timber licenses the present regulations — making one sweeping provision for everybody — acted harshly. For instance, the £5 license to cut timber applied only to the cutting down, irrespective of the use it was put to. Thus a sawmill, employing two men to fell, could consume an immense quantity of timber, while the settler who paid the same license would use much less. Of course it would be absurd to check sawmills, but he thought they ought to pay a proportionate license. By the old regulations the Waste Land Board had power to make bye-laws to that effect, and had in consequence in some instances raised over .£lO0 — although an extended area was granted certainly. He thought it only fair as regarded the Stewart's Island clause that occupiers should have their land at the same price as everybody else. It was not a great boon. The date was fixed (30th November, 1866) when he (Mr Pearson) returned to prevent complications. As regarded the provision for town lands, possibly some of that land might become township, and it would be a hardship to make a man pay for his own improvements, and he thought nothing could be fairer than to let him have the land at the average price other sections brought. Moreover, the plan of valuation referred to by the hon. member for Campbelltown (Mr Wood) might prevent the bidders from going as high as the average price. With regard to other clauses of the resolution, they were based on the Otago regulations, and as they were drawn up by experienced persons they should act well. Dr Menzies suggested that the clauses of the resolution should be put seriatim, in order that the Council might modify them. Mr Armstrong said the Government was willing to adopt the suggestion. Dr Menzies thought it would have . been better if the Government had indicated the nature of the substitutions they proposed to make. Mr Armstrong named certain sections of the Otago Land Act. Mr Johnston said they had heard a good deal about hasty legislation, but this was the first time they had been asked to swallow a bill wholesale. Mr Pearson did not think they could ' do better than to adopt clauses of a bill prepared by experienced men. Mr Wood said they should be chary of • extending the powers of the Waste Land Board, which already possessed too much power without being responsible to anybody, He would not willingly repeal existing laws in order to give exclusive power to make bye-laws to the Waste 1 Land Board. They should come before the Council. Mr Pearson had no objection to such a plan, but would merely observe that it ' would render them inoperative. The bye-laws were required merely to meet contingencies as they arose, otherwise the Waste Land Board would adhere to the , letter of the law. Suppose some applica- , tion about a sawmill came in, and they had to wait until the next meeting of the Council ? Now they were only asked to give to the Waste Land Board — some of whose members having had ten years' experience might be supposed to know more, or at least as much, about what . was required as the Council — powers to meet unforeseen contingencies. Mr Armstrong agreed with Mr Pearson that the powers asked were merely to suit the exigencies of the times, and to , save delay from one session to another. Mr Wood had always understood that the Waste Land Board was merely to administer the laws and not to make them. He did not think any injurious delay would arise — there were many other matters of greater moment that had to be delayed — and but little difference would be made to the revenue. He did not think it desirable to upset existing regulations in order to meet contingencies that might not arise. Mr Lumsden would move the substitution of the words " Superintendent and Provincial Council," for " Superintendent and Executive Council." He said the Waste Land Board was actually more powerful at present than the Council and j he wished to curb its action. Its members administered the most important business of the state as they pleased — perfectly uncontrolled and he thought that the powers sought should only be conceded in the way at present followed with reserves which were made by the Superintendent and subject to the approval of the council. He (Mr L.) quite agreed that people should not be despoiled of their property and that the Waste Land Board should make interim provision for their protection in the event of its being required and the council would no doubt vote accordingly. He did not think what he proposed infringed at all on the liberality of the provisions of the clause. Dr Menzies asked what was the area comprised in the original pre-emption of land beyond which it was asked to give a right to five acres at the upset price. Mr Pearson — The Waste Land Board never supposed it was in addition. Dr Menzies thought he was misunderstood and again asked "what area of improved land was there." Mr Pearson — " Not more than two or three acres to each person." It was not much of a privilege they asked, it was not a free grant. As regarded the amendment of the hon. member for Invercargill he appeared remarkably jealous of the powers of the Waste Land Board. He (Mr P.) thought that if the Superintendent, the Waste Land Board and the Executive could not come to. a fair understanding in
such a matter (as the sale of land without "" auction) they must be a very incompetent body. He thought there was some misunderstanding about the matter. In giving the pre-emption asked they only gave people power to buy at the same price as that paid by others — at the average price. Such power existed by the old ordinance that Came into force in Southland after separation, and he had never heard any complaint of his (Mr Ps.) having charged too low for sections so purchased but*?Hrthe contrary sometimes that the price was too high. He reiterated the expression that " if His Honor the" Superintendent, the Waste Land Board, and the Executive, could not properly arrange such a matter they must be disgracefully incompetent." Mr Aehstbong agreed with the hon. member. Mr Toshack thought it would be a hardship if people were deprived of their improvements. , , Mr Wood remarked that he should like to know from the hon. member for Waianiwa, so soon as he could call his attention (Mr Pearson being at the time engaged in close conversation with another hon. member), if the pre-emptive rights would be found among the townships recently marked off. Mr Peaeson (who had by this time closed the private conversation) said — " Oh nc, they applied to rural land." Mr Lttmsden, in reply to the remarks made by Mr Pearson, said that if the Waste Land Board were an independent body there might be no need for the proposed alteration. But he looked upon the Waste Land Board as almost entirely composed of Government officials, and including even a member of the Executive. The Waste Land Board was not therefore a neutral body at all. Mr Lumsden concluded by saying that Mr Toshack appeared to have misunderstood him, as he had no wish to injure any of the early settlers. Then there was nothing to hinder one individual from buying up a whole township. Mr Pearson (with great warmth) — Impossible, Now, really, the Waste Land Board is a neutral body. 1 have always tried to act on it as apart from politics, notwithstanding my seat in the Provincial Council, which I shall hold but for a short time. I can honestly say that I have never allowed political considerations to influence me. Indeed I have always treated my bitterest political adversaries with not only courtesy but an excess of courtesy in order to prevent such a thing as an impression that my politics interfered with the business of my department Mr Pearson went on to say that the idea of the hon. member (Mr Lumsden) was fallacious. The pre-emptive right was only to cover buildings and improvements, and as to the buying up of a whole township it was never contemplated. Dr Menzies thought there was some misunderstanding in the matter, and proposed the clause should be divided — the one part applying to Stewart's Island and the other to all over the province. He thought also it should be made more clear whether the recommendation applied only to towns likely to arise in Stewart's Island. The resolutions ultimately passed without further division, with the following alterations : — lnstead of " within the limits of Invercargill, CampbellLown, and Kiverton," the words "townships already declared " to be substituted. Instead of *' upset price at auction," " average price at auction." Mr Peabson asked the Provincial Teeasurer if any provision had been made with the Tasmanian Acclimatization Society for the transfer of Salmon and Trout ova to Invercargill during the next winter, aud further, if any correspon- ." dence had taken place upon the subject ; and suggested that a small sum of money be placed upon the estimates k> defray the expenses of the transportation of them over, and the preparation of a proper pond for breeding. He understood that the Province of Canterbury was about to . take steps to get some ova from Tasmania. As the salmon ova took three or four years before the young fish spawned ; he (Mr P.) suggested that Southland should join with Canterbury in that matter. The Provincial Treasurer replied that no correspondence had recently taken place on the subject. About 18 months ago the Tasmanian Government had offered to supply Southland witL ova. The suggestion was a good one and the Council ought to adopt it. Mr A. M. Clack moved — " That it is desirable that clause (JO of the Southland "Waste Lands Begulations, 1866, be abolished." He did not think the clause would have appeared if it had been anticipated that runholders were to be so heavily taxed in connection with the stamp duty. Mr Clark here read the list of duties leviable. The tax was a great hardship and was so apparent, that he (Mr C.) did not consider it necessary to make any lengthy remarks on the subject. Mr Peaeson seconded. The clause was inserted at his suggestion ; but in doing so, he did not anticipate that stamp duties would be imposed. Under the present Land Eegulations, the runholders were forced to buy large tracts of land, and to enable them to do so, they had to borrow money. He considered that the burden was more than any particular class ought to bear. Mr Wood did not see how any class should be let out of their obligations. They had all to pay stamp duties, and he did not perceive that it pressed more heavily upon runholders than upon any other class. Mr Cleeke thought that sufficient cause had not been shown why the clause referred to should be abolished. He should like to see some means devised for lessening the burdens of his fellow-colo-nists who were less able to pay. Mr Ntjbse thought the case stood' on its own merits. The runholders were taxed twice for the same thing. Mr Lumsden would vote for the motion as he considered the charge an ex-
ceptional one as regarded property generally. Dr Hodgeinson thought in the case of the transfer fee it should be abolished. Mr Pearson explained that there were three distinct taxes upon one transaction. Dr Menzies considered it a special tax which he had opposed from the first because it was oppressive. He should support the motion. The motion, on being put, was declared carried. Mr "Blacexock's motion — " That in ihe opinion of this Council an . Auctioneer's License entitles him to sell Beer and Spirituous Liquors in quantities of not less than 2 gallons, or in cases that in mercantile business pass for that quantity," was, after considerable discussion withdrawn. Dr Menzies brought up the report of the committee on the appointment of a salaried officer in the "Waste Land Board, &c, which was read, and laid on the table. The Provincial Treasurer moved — " That a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, praying that the sum of =£200 be placed on the Estimates for the purpose of paying for the application of Laud No. 848, to enable the Receiver of Land Revenue to complete the issue of a Crown Grant." He (the Treasurer) niaxle that motion pro forma, and brought the matter forward to keep it alive. The same motion had been agreed to by the Council 18 months since, but the Government was not then in a position to adopt it. The land referred to was applied for by the deceased Mr M'Kinnon while this province was part of Otago, and the Superintendent of that province— in whose hands Mr M'Kinnon had placed his funds — passed a cheque, while in Southland, for the amount, which was dishonored. The family had since been settled on the land. — Agreed to. Mr "Wood's motion — " That a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent praying that the sum of d£lso be placed on the estimates for the purpose of forming and metalling twelve chains of the Campbelltown road, viz., that portion running parallel with the Bluff and Invercargill line of railway, and extending to the eastern end of Campbelltown," — was, after some discussion, again withdrawn until the Financial statement had been made. Mr A. M. Clark begged leave to withdraw his motion for leave to bring in a bill entitled the " Carriers' Licensing Ordinance," as he had not been able to get all the information that was desirable; but at the same time suggested that it should be a Government measure. — Leave granted. Mr Armstrong asked for and obtained leave to bring in a bill entitled the " Education Ordinance Amendment Ordinance, 1867." Mr Wood moved — " That this Council is of opinion that His Excellency the Governor should be advised to visit and inspect those gigantic agricultural establishments in the eastern districts of the province." He (Mr Wood; thought that these gigantic farming operations were as interesting as anything they could show His Excellency, and he hoped the Governor's visit would be attended with good results to the province. Seconded by Mr Clerke, and agreed to. Mr Clerke asked the Government if they were aware of any discovery of gold at Stewart's- Island, and whether the Commissioner of Crown Lands had been applied to for protection by a prospecting company, who, it was stated, arrived here with a fine sample of gold ? He asked this question for the general information of the Council. It might have some weight with the members in passing the Estimates if there was any truth in the report. He (Mr Clerke) had seen that day a very good sample of gold found in Stewart's "island. He had been informed that the prospecting party wanted a policeman to shepherd their claim. Mr Armstrong replied that the Government were aware of the discovery of gold in Stewart's Island. A party of the name of C alien had shown a very good sample. The Government had issued orders for a policeman to be sent over there with the prospecting party. Mr Pearson had ascertained from the Commissioner of Crown Lands that the prospectors had asked for and obtained protection. Mr Clerke asked the Government if they were aware that the scale of charges on goods passing over the Invercargill Jetty "for the year 1866 was increased in favor of the lessees after the tender had been accepted ? He was informed that such was the case, and he wanted to ascertain if it was a fact. A deputation had waited upoo the Government complaining that the alteration pressed heavily on the merchants in town. He (Mr Clerke) understood that it pressed very heavily upon a class of the community they should do all in their power to encourage, namely, the Companies. They should place as few obstructions as possible in the way of importing farming implements, and this alteration added considerably to the cost of heavy packages. There should be a good reason given why the increase on Jetty dues was allowed. " They could not sacrifice the interests of the community for the sake of one individual. The Provincial Treasurer replied that lie was in a position to answer the question. When he assumed office the tenders had been issued with regard to the letting of the Invercargill Jetty. He had the agreement before him, and the scale of charges. After the tenders were accepted, it was found that no provision had been made for heavy packages. That was an oversight. The scale was arranged with the jetty keeper, and published in the " Gazette." The jetty keeper paid a high rent, and was liable to meet with serious losses through these heavy packages breaking the trucks (which he had to keep in repair), and besides, the lessee had to keep a number of men for the purpose of handling them. There was
nothing said about heavy packages in the scroll of the agreement on the last occasion, leaving tenderers to assume that provision would subsequently be made, as had been the case formerly. The following notices of motion were given : — Mr Clerke, to nwe " that a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent requesting him to forward a recommendation to His Excellency the Governor, praying him to dissolve the Provincial Council." Mr Swale to move " that the Government be requested to bring in a bill at the next sitting of the Provincial Council for the purpose of closing a portion of the track leading eastward from Invercargill, viz., from the old Wairopai Bridge to the furth. r end of Long Bush." Mr Toshack to ask the Government if any, and what, rent is being received for the Ferry known as Longford, Mataura. The House adjourned at 9.50 till 7 p.m. next evening. «,
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Southland Times, Issue 620, 1 February 1867, Page 2
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3,883PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Southland Times, Issue 620, 1 February 1867, Page 2
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