DR. MENZIES AT THE THEATRE ROYAL.

Southland Times, Volume I, Issue 73, 16 November 1864, Page 2

DR. MENZIES AT THE THEATRE ROYAL.

His Honor the. Superintendent having invited) the electors of Invercargill to hear his opinions on' th 6 affairs of the Province, the meeting took; place 1 ast night, in the Theatre KoyaL f Long before the hour announced, , (lialfrpast ; seven), groups were gathering at tlie corner of I Tay and Deveron streets j and as soon as themain doors were opened,; a dense crowd rusligd into the place.- . The stage was occupied by oiir. leading -townsmen,; of every shade of opinion.. ■ -A:iittle after the . appointed hour, His Honor stepped on- the- stage; accompanied by I. .I*. Watt,; Esq., and other gentlemen. -■..-■; „ - Mr.. D. Mitckem, then moved that Mr. Watt: take the chany .which did not seem to meet/witK the approval of; those ' present,: as the propbsal 'was greeted with loud .cries of "Ifo ? no." _;_' r ; • Mr. Daluyhple seconded. the motion, and : : j . Mr. Watt accordingly took the .chair;; ' ; ' . ; After giving his opinion on the duties; of :cHairanariand a.u-'iie^ce, lie l-ead tlie notice calling the meeiisg. aadintvodliced tlie canaiaat«. : ; - : ; ; Dr. Me.vzies spoko at first in a tone so low,* that he was nearly, inaudible at the reportcra' table while she , uttered , , Ha first ■sentences//, He was.., understood ,to say .that .befoi;a going;. any further there; were no; politics he would 'decline 'to discuss if they,afiVcted's remarks, which could -not he,, heard,- he referred toj the prospects of the' town' the'Waka--tip gpldnelds were ;dpj ancT ;the > linfluence that event had r upon all, elafioes .v^ ' lt ! became ;irh-; portanib^he said;, "tio;, &P&-: a; nibre- direci\rputo than through. I) {media ; improve ; 6ur roads, : and find a more, direct . courab^to :the Walcatip. : The i existing roads were inH^rbTed r Bo. fox^ they could 1 be, and the Q-overnnienib 'Btrained 'every nerve | tq. open up a7mprp diiedtioiii^; which 'wpuld i put Duriedin^out of tlie'question; The ro^wai I. a- difflloult ; and pxpensive^one. "He; bfelioWd .-hf spoke within limits wlibri v he said it coit 1540,000. But tho work grew upon their handaj on^'O^ligbd them to carry It but ni order to gain "the -'tratilo; although 1 it: : B o happened that 'owing tp^yariouß caußeß—poßsibly the market in Dunodiri offenttg a bettor choice, or prices not so high, or merchants at tho Wakatip haying connections there r and none in InT6rcaT'gUl* i ~StJU ; traflio was carried on, in Dun>ediii now yfhicb, he hoped aooa to se^ialnvereaMill. This wad iavolvod tine Province iv a great cjeal d£ ■. expense, but ofcnei' oxpenseß tho. proximity, of .'ti\© Wakatip m^e salarie? ris^, : wagoß^riae. All "Jbis, in itEe s course r ol : 1afe^;; months,- had the, disagreeable efiedt^. of, Ringing i t)iom-into dob^t, ;.';|^lV I%^%fi,o|,compa^elyj1 %^%fi,o|,compa^elyj Uttl^impprtance, ttrQti^# b^ftts liad^egunJ fef fees di^ wot do m, >4|teif bmim btmr

the faco of it '-became clear that t&0 >p road alone -would - not be" 'sufficient io bind OU» commercial "connection with r the;i]Wakatip. A.^^JM tramway was Jihen broached ;\but,.after a nirdis^ j^>j^ cussion, it was '"decided in the Provincial Cornwall- '" not to have it. Some further lime elapsed, when it was agreed to construct a railway, and in order to carry out that a large loan- became- necessary.-. . The Bluff railway was also commenced with a large _ loan^.and all this, involved .them so heavily in * debt that it was necessary lo obtain* stall further *• loans. These were very considerable — and by -^ and bye — pending the sanction of these loans by the General Government,' the Province was under the necessity of, obtaining advances from thej banks. 'In the' course 'of' 1863,> the' bank? r gar"». J<i their, accommodation ~very; fairly ;• but* toward* > the end of that year, they changed, their tonfr^-* ~ and, to to use a -common phrase — applied! -thV./ " screw." The advances .were given with rery great reluctance, and only on special cases. In the end of January last, the Government ascer- -■ tamed that the Bluff railroad required a larger/. expenditure than was anticipated; and so,. seeing. Various debts accumulating, it -became necessary ',»" In February and March, to pass bills for borrowing large sums of money. The position of the Province was clearly understood by thelmemberß of the Government, in February, and the provisions they made, if sanctioned by the General Govern-lii 7t inentwould have been sufficientto abate theembar* • . l rassments which occurred. If these loans had been 'sanctioned by tHe General 1 Government,-; ha >~ had very little.doubt but that the Provincial .Government would have .escaped the serious embarrassments it had suffered! ' It might not have escaped all, but it would have escaped considerably, „ and certainly the humiliation the Province had suffered. The' prosecution- of these, ..works wm stopped. Had it not been that the Government -„ were able to raise and expend a quarter., of a million, was expended in the Province, serious rain might have occurred. The General Govern- , ment, in slighting the idea of giving further loans J* just at the time the pressure began to be felt here, __ it was understood at once that the Province" was ~ perfectly paralysed. When the expenditure of 'a \--; Province exceeded the amount of revenue which, it can command, the only manner it could con- 1 tinxie works necessary for its well-being, -was by borrowing. But these loans after passing the Provincial "Council, did not take effect till sanctioned by tlie General Government. In this case the General Government did not advise His Excellency to sanction these bilk, and, what was Tinfair, it did not indicate any other course it would -be willing" „ to assent to. No doubt the General Government' had made advances to assist the Provincial' Government for a time, but it was clearly^ recognised? by both Governments that it was merely preliminary, pending other arrangements. He did not think the General Government -had acted fairly by the Provincial Government of Southland in not having as yet, indicated apy mode whereby a permanent solution of the difficulty could be lnade.;^ There was ( another alternative opened. It was possible 1 enough that other gentlemen niay^, by this ■ 'time, or, shortly after the meeting of the Assembly, will ( be in office and entertain different views, as" to the course to be taken, for the Province in the. circumstances. However this might be, the only true mode opeV-' to the Province to get loans, was to obtain tha sanction of His Excellency. He 'would remark here that- he sincerely hoped that the new Council would" - 'take the first of its. [, : spare jtime ,i% consider, .this subject in order that its : 'exprebi6ri f of" opMiori- might be sent to Auckland on the '2nd of December. '•■He. Jmewshovr members of Assembly felt before Christinas " thuei '' It", waV' qiiite^ necessary that the expression of opinion' from }the CbuncUshould reach tlie'J Assembly;, because that body wpuld^bejreluctani;, to entertain the matter, unless some member'cbuld 'lay^upon the table an expression from the new Council. Otherwise'the'l Council was powerless. ,;He£ was afraid .there !would Be aTfeeliiig" in the; Assembly -against-Pro--yineial loans; because: they- might possibly militate': . against the selling-value of their ownkrge loariY/ The true course 'would be to cbitsolidafce^all^Pro'vincial loans, and . make • a..- good case- for.r this ■ j that woiUdentitle ifc'to such' further eunis it might require:— ~He next referred .to the Escort; ? 'queßti6ii,"'''. land 1 -;.,,, defended]; the GtO* ;Ternment: in the Bteps it had taken before startling the gold escort from the Lake/ He held it was only courtesy to ( a sister Provipce^to .-consult* with the, authorities of that Province, firsts jiefpm' ithe Government' here ; took" any steps.- : ' : -\M- great .deal of correspondence on* the subject was the result ; and when Ofcago would give no assistance, theri the escort VaS established: > The next point was the relations of thre" Superintendent, with tho Provincial Council arid Executive. He defended the course he had taken on grounds^ and read COpiOUa extracts "from the motadn3y\messages, memoranda, and replies wliich- hadgpasßeilibfttween him aud the late Council. . Theposjtion of Superintendent he compared to that of -an Upper " House. The whole matter appeared ixr him to lie in a 1 nut-sheU.; The j Provincial Council desired to have more power ; it attacked the -Superintendent ;: and ;as, both' side* got warned neither could be free from blame. The Education Oreinance lie dilated -upon at great length. That had apparently given great dissatisfaction to the^^ community, -but 'it should 1 be remembered that in a .young country its first efforts at legislation must be very crude. He read from a "'mem-irahduni^lie had madej:;the results which had followed . the efltorts of other Proviiicea in New' ' Zealand^ and: the' Australian • Colonies,' in this^direction. The question,- he- said, had received the iitinost consideration from the Education Board, but no definite plan of amending the present Ordinance had been; agread'to. He was surprised that, every candidate who .had announced , himself • condemned* the' 'Education Ordinance, yet with; one exception, no one, was prepared to "supply them with a better. The exception was f Mr. Tarltoni aud with hisl system the speaker could not agree altogether. It was a master the Provincial Council could decide. Aa to the Eoads" Ordinance, it clearly could^ not' be expected that Government - should make all roads « in the Province. ■ He considered that Government . should make the trunk roads7 but ; this was; also a subject-fpr; - the Council to deal with./ 7 ; HeJ exonerated huTlSQlf .and Other^; from ar^Bha^iin^ie obnoxious measure of r li : aising the price of v lan3L -;Ia conjunction with 'the "nienifasrs :for' Wallace, the^present TLaM^ Bill "as Ifc ;: staiia& : was brought into the House, with the exception T ; that : the price determined .on „wa3 205. ;. per ;;..acre. When th* bill wab introduced into the 1 House of Representatives', I the • . members intimated their interition rof opposing 1 the bill unless - the - price -was , -raised- to £2 par acre... Meanwhile fclioy Still lielfl On tO thefonner price, tatja^last fcto . Otago'meuibfersc'aine ; ra ah 4 said " We jtmistnoi let you sell 1 your lands at 20s. i per "acre;; and with a crown grant,' while wb have I deferrdd'Tpayments, "unless yOu'raisefthe price to? 4os.- per. acre,- we^^ll oppose the bill'. 1 ' They founbl it simplyj impossible .* to'carry it/.and the only schance "wasjtojßubnwt to the ■ increase -br - have/ it negatived, that ' is, to hitve 7 ' rib '.'''-bill;" or ;!ithe/;larid ; at 40s. per acre. 'He (Dr. Menzies) still thought the bill with land at £2 per, acre was preferable to that of Otagp-TW& ite/'interniinable deferred payments. He "'tti'ei^^Btttd^biftt one of the chief plans for { conducing" to"^o"prosperity ; of the ProvinCb^WOttlS b^ J that of large immigratiori. The first sMplbad of immigrants which arrivedwas in SeptettVlJoriaSS/andv from; that time*to tbit the ;. j tofoll^umber of amyals were tiaeses-— 937 twsiited and? nori^as^ste&rimniigwint*. Tlvo largo introduction'' of this latter class ii&SL" more tbanm any)qfcher j\ray t^nd ito the prosparifey ;pf the Province. '[' t Many camo >} well supplied with money j^ i!n fact^ he ' woulS 5 racn|ion .tnat , in , the ; very last slu^ iome i-'Kalf-a^ddzeii • families could muster" as "many thbUß«cd» if hftC\ bought farma ready made. Tlieaa »re |£ho Imenifo "Want • here^— men swHoi will .SettkuOM. pli Elands of r the . APrpvince— ;naon >'«f|tb.- strong? haMi, x land stout Hearts to encounter -^fflculties at pie ./ loutaot. Ithasalao been argued -that free inpii* | gratibni if it: didj occasion present eipenw, wojgld | •TJjnfcuplly be. beneftoioi inasinuidx is ■ an inapMiifo ? in, the Oulßtoms revehue migHfc Ife; oipectad l^wft M^iwiiß'i^Mlr^^ "* ■■ ■:■ -„*■ %j, M ■ "tr

land, or to give grants^of > hind there;- jj where;after the Bettler-has.spent.seyeral years in land, he only r arrived - .at . a point equivalent to that in whictfth'e-'settler 1 finds^ -himself in. this iProvince at the outsetl A .. friend of his writing from ihe-iPrpvince ipfiAuckland— from ; that, part; ■which<iNfa(i T^onsidereoL the 'finesfr-— had' written him tO^tne'eiffect^fliat ho Trould 'prefer -land -• in Bouthlftud afr £2 per acre to land tfiere qnagranfc He then expressedhiti gr,eat cpnfidence;inthe future of Southland^b'm.iti agncultural^^prbspectß, !l and its geographwal4»o'Ritfcb'generaliyl> > He dwelt on the importance of our ponnectiqn with the goldfielda;; of the-neighboring^Province, and_ the importance^ tobe attached^ our cWef^ enhaai^d'inatew weeks,' through its! connection by the electric telegraph with other ' Provinces; and ie had reason to believe that-by the end of the preßeflt r ßtimmef I .telegraphic commumcation would be established., petween.-the^ Bluff , and^^;the whole Middle " Islandj'.aß ' 'far ' »s._C6'6k's Strdits. 'He thought it*was ; *sckrdely /possible to i attach! too_, much importance to this undertaking, and to the •ffecfrgenerally it wquld.haye pn the prosperty of the Province. '"' He ftieif 'referred ! j to the country districts, and remarked that while .others i have; been suffermg from^^e^ere^depresMon, the rural ■ettlements of 't%e 'Province has been '.progressing most satisfactorily. /J: He' 'said - anyone who had xidden.4ately,^or; withi? ; Q 6 J. P ast 7 e3X > oTer *^ c Tarious^istmcts -of : Jhe« Proyince^ cannothaye^ failed to observe this. With reference to tlie •ction -of tie^ GfeheraL ; Assembly -asc to; bur. land r»venue,iie-j3y,iiLO,mea]aß_fel^cqnndent^that our territorial revenues would not be appropriated" by the^^sseihl^^^uldr they v require -them to^ meet heir "own l necessities, and he would ask-^-Doesit ip't'apjpear'^ise fto anticipate our Territoriai Kevenues^pl'such;, an extent by borrowing-moneyVon^m^sc'-that.itfw^ of the power }?f -" the : G-enefal GlpTernment to lay hands • on it. ' He '^tholight ! ho ! provmce' ! of ' tlie colony could boast of reproductive wprks : of a character like epxß (a'laugh-) ;. That is 'when they i will be COBipieifcd.' "He thought it would -be a'great mis- ' take: to hand over the railways to the Gf^eneral G-overnment. :As .trustees of the province' and its • funds they would greatly err, and the evilwould fall on our children's, children: He was. prepared to say that these railways would yet be-reproductive to an extent^ which we dreamt' not of, and even with the pYlsfent traffic over the" route' traversed, calculations had been^made; ;wMch were very gratifying. He then" read" "over in detail the annual cost "and revenue of both lines of railway as f urnlshed'to him on careful calculations. The annual COsfe" of working the tßluff line was estimated at £6,000 ; interest and sinking fund on £180,000, £14,400 ; in all, £20,400 — as annual cost. The estimated, revenue,. calculated, on the traffic now carried on between the 1 Bluff and luvefcargill by water carriage and otherwise, is £20,800. As to the Oreti llailway, the copt of working had been estimated at £3700 per annum, and the interest on debt £8000 (?)— in all, £12,500. Now, he had received two estimates of the revenue which might be expected from the line, and the lowest was £10,000 a-year, while the Inghest was as much as £20.000. He considered that we should be great gainers if the actual revenue even approached those estimates. 1 He might be considered disingenuous if, in talking of these railways^ he omitted to say what it would cost to complete them. ; The Bluff line would require £30.000, and. the outstanding liabilities on that line amounted to £18,900. Tha Oreti line would require £31,000 to complete it, and he thought would be finished for the. sum of the loan. The Bluff Railway would exceed in cost of construction the sum of the loan. There had already been a considerable excess, but there would yet be 'a sum of £50,000 required. Still we must not leave the lines as they now are, and they must be completed. He suggested a loan for this purpose, which would be met by tho revenue accruing^ : from these works. In the course of his address, Dr. Menzies said the General Government norr claimed 5-Bths of the Customs' Revenue, but they had the power to glTe US only l-Btli if they found their necessities required it. In the North Island, where we can fix no reasonable time for an end of the war, which has been so miserably conducted for some months past, depend upon it we may look at any moment for the whole of our Customs' Eevenue being appropriated by them if they considered they required it. But out of all .this it wa3 pleasant to reflect that we could discover a silver lining to the dark cloud. We ha-se a large extent of excellent land, although our roads are IVOt yet of a first-class kind, and then we have B&ilways (laughter) which he fairly balieved at no distantdate would be largely productive. He would hope that those who went to the Council to conduct the affairs of the Province would be men who would nofc take a gloomy Tiew of matters. They should be men who have the utmost confidence in the future, and a sincere faith in the wisdom and orderings of a higher providence. He thought they might Bafelj leave tho rasults of their endeavors to that ruling Power. " That shapes our ends, Rough hew them how we will." (]©ud cheering.) He would now be happy to answer any questions which might be put to him. A disturbance now occurred in the upper part of the house, occasioned by one or two persons under the influence of liquor. Peace was, however, after a short time restored, and A variety of questions were then put to Dr. Menzies, which we have been compelled to condense as much as possible for want of space. He »aid if elected to the Council, he would certainly Btandfor -the Superiufendency. If not chosen Superintendent he could not say how long he would sit in Council. However, if re-elected Superintendent, he should be reluctant to leave his ! post till he found the Province in a much more prosperous condition than it has been for some time past: 'He acknowledged the .fact , of a writ being served on the Government at the instance ; of M'Kenzie and Co.. contractors, and that tho Province was in their power to the extent the law allowed. Sundry questions were put to Dr. Menzies on the subject of the attempted change of name of -In vereargill to that of Clinton. It was he who introduced ; tho Bill into' l the I/egJslafcire Assembly. In tb.o proposed ehano-e (which received the concurrence of the Council) no disrespect had been meant to the Car-; gill family,- but it was out of respect to the Duke of Newcastle, who had done such a great deal for the whole colony. He had not asked the feeling of the people on the change, and the bill was thrown out, inasmuch us there had been no evidence before the Assembly of the expression of public opinion on the subject. A : series of questions and replies now ensued between.Dr. Menzies. and Mr. Stuart, on the subject of bis action in Auckland respecting-relief to ' the Trbviriee/ i In reply to another question, he (Dr.: Menzies) said it was' the" rule for heads of departments rto signvouchers for money previous ■to payment. , There was\ one occaszonj however', "on which this'had' been departed from, ■ but -the voucher in question was now under consideration;. Several .questions were asked on the ','Priecr of-Land" question." When in Auckland, Tie had not thought it necessary to first consult the people Cof Southland before agreemgtp ? thß raising. of the jmce.tp £2 per acre. Ho would endeavor to ': obtain; '& if *h° '■ people s 'took i«feps 'it,-' and %ere * supported l . by • v thb T Cb\iuciI r in' We 'matter; ■' (Dr, Menziee) 1 • was 'prdssnt'when tha tender dp •£22,000 odd for rr ihb ' Moi6mbW> Jetty « was/ a^cepied^ 1 but-iMx, - Chalmerv iras also ihen : a member Of tiis : Excou« tire. , fie; said tjM».7^arltOTi'» fttateaientm that morning's pkper wis incorrect as to Mr. Chaltoer^dealings in tHis- matter. He must have been misled >y .the dates in : the : Qmeite:i •-'■■} ' r ' T ln-' reply f to' £ ''question aia- to- whether Mr. Wilson's statement on the hustings that morning ; wfts"cijrreet,'(in*r,eiererice td : the menHorial to Hsr * ; ; 'arid T 'fh'6 Q-overnor oft the ;Waste Lands Act), Dr. Menzica said he was not conscious that i ' :! 'Mf; : "Wii3b^ J fr6mthe'iront:6f: the gallery, no^ teggcd'tb'put'tKo'iiieetijig righfc : 'oH. the question, fS^tli h& reitfrabefrwh&l he had fvimsAy stated on -.the-hußtmgsv-and*.. jernfutked reflection Mthfi-BwWa,fd Jf<?Wa=Qn the aciipn,, of fche }. : 3Prpyincmi 'j£suw\,i* to Mq# 'H'*Tio£fifWXdiflf(

I no intentional neglect or ' withholding ; of the memorial on /the part of "Ms' departments^ In reply to the following (juestioh; " Was! it not your intention finally to^^;disppse : of the ' Representation Ordinance when you, in "March lasfc, withheld the Governor's consent." "He said "Such an insinuation is a base slander." He said the i question of abiding/, hyj; tho majority ;i of his i Executive was Ojie of casuistry. " , Several other questions of "minor importance -were asked arid duly answered, on-which 1 ■ --U ;'./-■ Mr. EjN&siiANDi moved, -and" Mr.nGsisow -Beconded, a resolution to the effect that Dr Meii"ziesj was a fit and, proper person to. represent "Invercargill in the Provincial Council! ; '- X Inhere beingno amendment, the motion was put i and passed amid loud cheering.; ;{ ,r : )['.\ ■/,.;• ./,'.; A vote of thauka to ., the .... chair terminated the .. proceedings. * ' * \ , ■ \ . . . . ... ..;. ..