PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
v' r? Iff j — !**"""* * ' y There not--' being a quoi'um of» the \slouse present up to a quarter of an h&ur v pß_t the hour of meeting, Mr. Speaker adjourned the . '1 f fil. _ _ 'X'';.i-i'jS:~ii:~& '.ft- ■■"s»'#is Mojtday, 25th 1 July. - - - '^^e'gPEA'K^^ and soon /afterwards- opened- the in themsnal-ma-meT:—- 935.0 -following -membei-s- were present, viz :t— Messrs., yTarlton.^Howell, Calder, Chalmers, Pearson^; I Sbott,{ Nurse, ! Armstrong, BS^or^'j^HaVveyV'Wa^Wilson.'.':. T'.^A'i'^'lOOO i The mmiitesv.ofrlast'f meeting*. were read and confirmed. : i' il & -'i '-' x> - "*- 'A 'i-' MINISTERIAL DISEI.CtTLTrES. Mr. PEAKSON .reminded- .the House, that on Eridayv last; His, Honqr^tlie,' SupQrintendentjhad sent 'for lum,'anu th^t'g|htlen>eii' willing tb'act&s ; an Executive had;been^ot.'' J It - was not usuaroh sueli occ asioiis to ; foraf'a' compact with His Honor "f " but, in" the " present "'cdnditibn "of "the : Prbvmbej ;V?he& £(Miv.'{. <Pears6n)Ci 'co'nsideredMiit I absolutely necessary—that»-thiß should be done. He referred to'the^ESCutive/Q^din^nce at present' m- for,ce^ disallowing the Amendment^ passed last session,, acted cpniiary: to,the t^sb,e» . Cjf jfch^ public. ; ! In consequence of ' thisf ' it 'became'- necessary^that '! ' "a "compact should .be~e)it'e^ j -. (Mr. Pearson) r -therelbre i prbpbsed^the following: .terms'to the other 'gentlemen uwhoi were.propo|ifd ] i as members of the "Executive, and they agreed/ 1 with-them :—.... .;..., — ..,„„^.„,-,.^.— ._~—,~ ♦,-,..-- j i "1. That the Executiye.is to,be responsible to \ ■ the Provincial Council for - t;he "'actions of the_ Go- 1 ; ,ver"nment' V ori- every Jpbirit within tEeihmitsf|>f \ i Provmcial legislation^ Oi^Vcul CI. f ; "2. That they must have the control in all I • matters that iare- purely; "provincial,? 'such having! ; *noTeference-to powers -delegated- -to tee- Superin- f , tendent by" the'; Governor,.; on while thef : gentlemen, wining'to "act as an Executive \ ■ are of opihibii that at 'is ''desirable thai they'shduldj I be consulted, but leave it optional with thef • Superintendent!.' -■' ' - ; • ' '' ' : -' ; '--'-- ;; ■'■-:■■ '•■■'■■ | i b. That in all such purely Provincial matters | .; as ' expiamed '' in." clause 2, /the Superintendent! : Bhbuld"'cbhsult his Executive aad " act strietlyinf I accordance with' thb opinions' of the majority." | ■x Tp rfchis-i His Honor demurred j but, requested! : him '(Mr. Pearson) 'to can* next day. ' He did so, | ; andreceivedthefoilo'wmgmemorandum onNo.ir— > " Tliat the adniihistration~bf the affairs 'of the! Province /-half" be- conducted- 'by Ithe.'S.uperinten-f dent, acting with *he ; advice and consent of ; the| ' Executive Council hi all matters which 'are under | the control of the Provincial' Council, and als6"in| matters which are beyond the control of the| Provincial Council, where such a course is, pre-j. scribed by the /authority conferring the power off . administration." (Memo on No. 2.) ..- r j "The entire control of the Provincial G-over/n-| ment.wbuld, '-under such provisions, be 'given over* to the Executive; the position; of; .the Superin-| tendent would be little else than tliat of Chairman! ©f the Executive, having little or no power in the] , administration. "Such a fundamental alteration^ in the Constitution of 'the Provincial Government! . aa" this arrangement will amount ; to, .should'bej ; effected only; after a due deliberation and by legis -j lation." ...... !' He (Mr.' Pearson)' pointed out that this would* be'Openingup a wide field for future dissensions, j In fact it was opening ; up; the; whole question! again . wluch had been so funy discussed in last| Council which wasunanhnous ih its opinion s oh it.] He, however, stated to His Honor that he would; show it to the geiitleKien' he proposed acting with? hhn, and the result was'their agreeing to the fbl-? lowing :— " - f " The Executive to have the entire .control, in? ; all matters relating-to- the- expenditure-of moneys,! and otherwise relating . to fmances--rto-_eall for ali! tenders, and decide r ,pn theh.' acceptance,.dr T other-j wise— to. appoint and dismiss all servants'of,, the* Government — 'to see' ail correspondence prior io| its being 'answered, and 'decide on the.itefms o£j ■ reply — to have the entire control; of carrying into! effect any iinahciai scheme which may be.resolved) upon." i .- , . -. , e . - _ \ .On reading the first paragraph, His Honor said! he did' not see his way' to' accede to it. •'NbTy-Vit* seemed tb lirm (Mrl Pearson) that of all the prb-i positions ma.de it. was. the iinost reasonable — that: ; an Executive -responeible to the Council shouldj ! have the entire management of the' ihohey voted! : by that Council; ' Hedeclined at the -time entering! • into any- argument on 'the matter,- arid : simply^tbld| His Honor, that it was only on this basis .thef Executive would act. He also stated,"-however,| that while he, 'himself, './would deci..edly declines forming.,, an Executive except these ,, conditions i 'were agreed' to, he would bring them' 1 before '<the; House; and, if the Council thought otherwise, \ \ perhaps some other- members -'would undertake'; i the work, for certainly he would not. He con- j sidered- ; that the matter-was'pretty- well delibeVated- . upon in the last Session, and would 'that; '■, the" opinion then'come to was the real opinion -of; ■ the Coimcu on Hhe^ : subject. 'He had done Ms; '. duty -'4n;;attempting- po ; form- an .Execut-ve^and! : assist in trying, if to restore -pu-blic 'con-'; i fideiice. If the House .chooses to take a'oifferenti i view of the case, andfbelieyed that the dividedj ! system of responsibility; should go on, he would; ! oppose it, as 7 it, was conviction thati : the system was wrong.' ' '' /' *' '"'' ,- ! Mr. 0 ALDER asked .if the 'hon. members'j j names for the prop'ose-PExecutive should not be"; s given. .V. J. '!' ■''. '•' '.i (>. j Mr. PEARSON, WjOuld have named them at| ! once, had ;His Honor/ made < any objectiou to thei I gentlemen personally,' but his objections Were on a ; | matter of principle. As question ,had been| ; asked, he would' state that' the^gentlemen _ proposed,! 1 were Mr. r Qhalmers, as Provincial '.Treasurer,' 'with! Messrs-. 'Sogers,-' Harvey, and himself as col-J .lea'gues,;' '/'. -'. '}». j H '/< ~; f ! LEAVE OV ABSENCE. j:" \ At ,tMs. stage, rofithoproqe'edingsj :'?..swiil I Mr- WILSON concluding that the subject.hadi dropped, requested on behalf of . Mr. Cowan leave! of absence for'the' remainder of the'- session. Leave; was, granted, r , --<. c • f. : :-i»q.-;. : j ■•■.v.'!-:'. -:!^I I }' A ;; j was resumed by .* t ! Mr. PEABSON, who wished the House to 'give] some 'expression' bf ' oii the "remark's- that; had been made. -He had told- His Honor -that hel would inform,him of the opinion jof the House, sol .that he might, adhere to his r views ,or,.modify. them! as he thought fit: • c.,i.,, t M li -^ \ Mr. ABMSTBQN.C- was f sorry .older .members, had hot given theii- 6pi-u6nsoxiithe'ihatte!r already i He thought tiie 'resolutions brought forward by : Mr' Pearson should be strictly adhered to. It was the* uiiahinabus' bpihibh of the"cbuntry'th"at'-th.e Super-| - intendent should not govern without a responsible Executive, y, y y ? ■ yr >_ y, o JI J A i~n i Mr. CALDEB, reminded;- the Council, %at| during last session^ the jsubject,.had been discussed} for at least twenty' da^s,-'atitl ; it' was_ not at all; likely the members" of^ that House would" eat"tHeir| own words, and -reverse the- decision then come to.! • ffi foever. h'adlbuti one opinion on the tmattelj.^lfj they were going tbh'ave a'Gbvernor at all, it shbuldj be withiairesppnsible^Exeeutiye./ irf-rf- ' } Mr. HARVEY complained ,of the House show-j ing mdifference" 'in' 'the matterl He commented! "on renmrK'^ade^y^eiffain' Tirairm'^bors'lastl session/andJgave -it as* -IS¥ ppinibn that; Sßfis^ Honorj jhajd/shpwrifavdpggedness and.stubborness that>wasj ; disgusting. ; i •^fr^^^&^^^^-.^^Q^oyia^^^ \ not at once confess, to, carelessness on the subjects j they should give an" 'opiiiibnj 1 ' He did not know Kow tlie Stxperiittienileii't liacl ;;| beeii fxxtxrseA, \ -Ta/ab it ! •'Beometl"to-have'been4n- , the-*past'agesr---His-EEonor seemed to think, and 4 think correctly, that if he agreed to this, ha wouiaf-be^reduced to the positjon. of a mere chairnian'f.bf|;iKb Iri Executive. .Quitej ; right, and a very hon^r&bie^p'oßitlon'it would be ( getherpand wbndered-if-it-could possibly be agreed^ ; ,to fbrloifelnan to say^ you.slall hav&aE' fliofwbrk,| I t re>p;oxs^iffi^a^dl^^*&i ikSlM^sM^ e^^ j ! power. He maintained^ that the whole powers ; should be held by the^Executive, who were the}
<6_F]-tHw y .-Hffihafft • M>j*_t_*" -* ifi_L- - _ sg=^ » . kcu RAoiSb vfeadof {h«arl^l. which &9_|||pn njpf|,jfor- Ip t "simple ?e||jj|^ jthgj||| . up to th"a^fimelip-e i Coulfisil 1 nnghtj haro! hei^^,the PPo^'ej^of i^nrese^emb_,rraslml_'^^^Efßheld they» could "do^|iofhing , ''till His Hoh'oragreed to govern with the liavice of an Executive pos. sessing the confidence of the House— If, after awhat-had^assedfhe^erused-^ sibility .was taken entirely off the shoulders, of the #rb^^cialrGou^^ pntirery on I&osb*of His Honor. *~ It would be mehtione'd to" 4um.j&Ua>thj|^ ■ not sure, Wt^that.gimdler, tb^o, existing* Ordinances H) ; the Superml;ehd^n#~~cb^nd~^OTC^ : ja/xepntrvCY—bnt Whetlier^hliTwero^th'e'^se^rnb^ , the Province actuaJlyj required atthe^reisenttime ' that it should.' i-bt^be so': , '" i /*"-'• ';' : ' , The PHOJimiA i T^JREASTJBEB, asked>for some r deiinite 'resolution on the subjects - ; -£^*S?jM <^ Mi-. PEMIRSOS 3 would be b.aj>g|if fthfpra. meihbcr. 4 br6ught..one ( forward. X^i*'i£^^ : &sl*& ThVPirtoYlNdi&L'^^ . they should; -haveia, written,- and not a -verbal re- . port. Referring to previous remarks on the sub- ; je'gt,sher cpntended-that^the. and /Executive should ha^e. seats in; the House, and \ hold them no longer than 4 . htey possessed the coni fidence of the House.^,,, ... } ".:.-.-,.f „ , i.,;^} rj ' . Mj.% PEA^,DN/t|fe^ gbing'tp legisKte ifor tnb/futpre, and- npt.fprithe present. They werethere'to consider what should be done; dUrmg^the ? neST'three or four months, ajft'er Viftch.^^ /ffie^pr^sent^Cp^'cii would npjpnger existi^'Th^^^^ Superintendent the views enunciated by the hon. member^bffif it* didj it'Swc^ld^belLushle'ss.*' *J The PROVmcM.^ asked if His. Honor., the .Superintendent positively, refused to be- guided 1 by'the^opinion of the-Tnajonty-of tne Executive ?, H OH iIZH T9TU ti ij. Mr. PEARSON" replied by again reading His Honor's answer to paragraph. "No. 2 of the pro-p'os^Oompyctir-*He — which I } -atO^g' Jusele^l?cß o^ek^p%ow— would be simplified if the" proposed compact were adopted. ~ .._■' ' ~-^,^ r .^ -•,- -' ; ' -.*.-- '' 'Th^^PEOYESrCIIIi A TREAST^KMRga^eda if the Superintendent -positively refas#& r^ s >dofsdi? • again- read th^pa^sp^tpl^nd I stated that, besides., rßas(Hprror Haa verbaliy said He was not prepared, to take Buch\a f position. He : would keep' tKb" one he' had'- held, and" ke 4 dp it intact for Jiis ; successor;- ■..,-,& «. wr ,v,,fs. ( -i/r .»^' f=^ uy>T ■■ ' TheP^R*OVI^CIAL"TREA^tmER,aB the 'only representative^of the-,Grpvernment hi s the Council, ; felt it right to "make certain enquiries. He Baid i he .was_-sorry to . the. Superintendent of f the 'Prdvince had att«^p'ted'te^ ? revive ! thelold'di^putes. The fact was,'^ they waihted WtfoVernmentjandHvere perishing for want of-itj and he was extremely sorry tlieSupernitennent, a^d%btTsee_uTlns duty to agree^with.any gentiemenjwho, were£ prepared- to conduct the Government- -with . him. __He, again contended that,, a resolution on the subject should be^submitteu. :^^ J 'M«<; KLiSiK J>»>£.J.O Mr. CALDER -though'. <ti undesirable that this should be done, because at present it could not be so carefiuly Y drawn.~up as r would- embrace every,thmg.that^ was wanted'. "He considered it more prudent for-the^ mover^'tile'mat^r'W-ciarryback to His Honor the impression of opinion that must have, been received from what had been.said. 'So* adverse opinion'to* the ad^erse>o|)inipn ri to the memo.'s read'had'been given/^'^/. /- -. r ' Mx. ROGKERS madeAsomo Jremark/s^ahd^the subject dropped, .without any , Resolutions being put, it being understood that Blr/'Pearson would make,,a verbal statement t to r ;Hb|-Hpnpr ,of what was the opinion of the Housed , , ' MISAPPEOrEIATINQt EAIIiWiX > 'ifrx}r_)sV "" j Mr. PEARSON asked the'Prdvihciai Treasurer " what craft it is that came from England." r The PRO V^NCIAIj Make your questibnVa/nbticel?6f. motion, and I will be prepared, to answer it. Mr. PEARSON" thought the hon. member would be prepafM^J-aTariswer at once. The question would,, have been put in the usual form, .butlbefora fe^ drawn. " lei's,ooo of ;^s,ooo""'Vah^^liaol already gone, and if ; another £15,000 were to go '< tb^morrow^Ke did" not ~see'h'6w"the"railways were to be completed. > -yyj 7/ :^srxr The , PROVINCIAL jTREpURER pointed out theßesh'abihtyfbl-itimelbeing^v such questions,, if, a correct^eply jwas wished for. As to this "matter, 1 he" "could 1 's|y^ that' the £7,000 asked for was for raiiway~material, and therefore - came ; wi.thin the: -meaning;,of "Jhe, terms, of /-loan. Whe&erithe diaf%presente -and some.odd--pounds,_.w^s_tiieJkßt^eicoiild not rsay, but}herwas ratiaernafraid^trwasjnp.t.^-? > -. ?r - Mi.-PEARSQN{wqiu^agam;^ any„cha^ce_.of-_puttingla^top..'3bJJ;b^sl_co^ ,drainrpn i; a fu^d^:bich|Ya^.for,a specific purpose ? ByltheterWpf^^e agree^ "the cb'nfa-actor ;fq^ linej^he jpt. as . to „haxe.,one„nip.^h , s_n^ot^ payment. He (Mr. . Pearson) did. not,^ee how 'thatcbuld ; bb'done^ v j^»— °; ! ' « y- l ir^lJ - /The PIiOVINC-Aa_ ,i TRE^irRER^^r/ome explanatoixreniarkj |U as^bf r "3^ o _^ be v a Provincial Treasurer?" "True.. jtheyTeld funds r for'a^' specific^pnrpbse ; from London came "forlwhat-was'-feally going^to be used "bix" " " railway "works;" were't^ honored? ;; : 'He\cdriciuded^^ h be r done ; ■ that they couldindt construct' S nor tMrn line, and at the same time not pay for material'!?) be used w 6n~the~Blun^linD:~ ~ : '.■-; •-———- rr ,J MrnpAl-I)ERl;cei-iniente'dxbn th'^Simelan'chqly position theisProvincjevtwa^tjih, as ,-revJeale"d by/ the Provincial- Treasurer's- statements.— On~the-one t-hand, : 'they'iwere vlobhge.dco-to; 'meetl ;the%Loird.on. drafts, Jog ' theira creaUtJxo.uldKhJay^Tgon'€g there j on the other.-hand,ai&eyo\yer£>t^d^^ ■ tOtthe-contea«tor«far-t}ie^ which they could^ptjjul^lj.fprtworks whiclTwould be the means of faN^g l thVpi*dvince; and amid all this* they "had nj£~one^tp~ ~lopk~to ~fbr"a"dvice~or assistan.ee, save^/^an|wb;p|wswLld do nothing but take his own w^^Ktnß^fey^|pf the otSer New Zealand Provmces^tKe/Jpqsitijin must appear huiniliating.- ) and disgfa^ceM.* If--. an-. Executive Was not'fonried in a day or two, 'tb!o only course, for. } the~^Tro7incM,^Council would be, to dra-v<|r' up a^'mem^rM-b? 1 fhe §^neraLQ-pjern-ment, 'stating the views tff the : Hpus/e\appypo|itipn. .6i the 'Province', then ! ¥ach> ifiembeV^q^ejily'ldigo ■ home. ' --He felt- it '& pain-tp^com^^here^mgli- after night, and afV^r r;/ all?'-i6thm'g !^as. ( done. He asked for a suspension oflthe iWdibg Oroers, %ho thiifcTJhe -^might'^6veotheC&llo f wj%^iblution, -Tviz.?:-^! .If tyXK ... ... ,'., .... -«|«sdS . '"-That.tliis-'CJoimcil having heard tha.explaiiStionß of those memberffiwho) have unsuccessfully endeaybrelcf. to Tp^-M)Ei|3utr^e)"^fft o% JßJiihion -that-the- spirit of- the-memprandum r ßubmitted-by them^tojhi^ Honor the Superintendenjg subetantially embodies the views of this Housewith regard .to the formation of axTExecutive." \^' Mr. HO^^LL-eec^nded^the^re^ was carrie'd' withbut'furtner diacussiohr .W O Jii;PBOP-irA_&6i T T&mxAxbzs. 51 laMr. CHALMERS obtained the suspension of the standing orders toallow-bim to move the following resolutions :— .„ ..,..,.." +' "1.-^^'.qq&^W^^-SSS-m'.'- the : determination of the to continue the administration of "the affairs of the Province, independentl^off; tlje contirol of Executive officers responsible tefthis CounciC 7 * '"" *" ■■' "2. The Appropriation - Act, No. 3, ,1864, sanctions a scale of expenditure totally inappro.^riat6 to" the present .;condit^.nlpf the Provirfc|, .this~Counoil-»-iS'-therefore-.of^.~6pirdon-Ithat /.a-i-ear and largelyqre'duced lAppropriatidnf Act ought to be introduced. "" """ y K "' - -:':,.. '£ :"&. ShoulH theCpresShtiCouncil belprdfogned without a newV£_£bpropria^4'^Qr(linance be^g InteocLvLcacL, thia Conncil—protesta against til© COXI--.-IffiH^SGe^pf^xpimditur^ v|£ # "4' The , Council is, 0% opniion that the cbntuiied non-pa^inehtTbf'^ums owing, by the Pro♦T^JialsCHjv&rn^ tdifrlraceful -'i-tb^ the- -Province^, and r thifft€ouncil pie l^es itself to^umte^&^tf s^y provident measurea-by-which these debts may hquida'ed?sjfl^otjM}lß^h;^h^^ or other securities of a negotiable character, bearmg'in^lSMfiSepßWm---^ = " ' ; ! Mr: CALDER seconded, the adoption of the j resolution^SO^:a^
."■ Tho"_?RbY_-_Td--iii.#^iAS at considerable length o^XeWd^^noii^fclSuses in the series of " res~oluTEibW,^and r^oVvowttod ' the "issuing of exchequer notes on which ; the banks were -willing to advance money. t .' ? ~ . . . ....'*.'■;.,. . Mr. PEAI^OI-f moved .the adjoui-imeiit <6f tlie debate, .till the fohowing sitting, ; .as ,it .wotuhLbe well' to s6e if the Superintendent might^notchange Ma mind, in. the obst^ate course he was pursuing. $.6" hoped? 'the amendment' for ' an' adjournment ■ttCuJdinpet; -with the views of the House. ____•.' "WlhSO'S 'secdi-ded. tiw'-inendmcnt, wliich was agreed - tp.- ■■■'•-;"-■"■-;"■'■"" ".' : """'-"' "■■" On the of Mr. ..Pearson, seconded* by Mr. CEalinerßj'the House then adjourned. yd NOTICES OP MOTION.' •'< Y> > ,'-- Mr. PEARSOj-T to move at the next sitting, that the fee to be paid for'license'to depasture on tho waste lands of the Crown, Sunder the'Tegulationa .;to be based 05 the proposed {land regulations, passed at this session of Councflj be ( V(! / Mr. SWALE to more that a respectful address bo presented to His Honor,, l tl_eSupoi , mtendent ) requesting, him- to set -apart a portion or the whole of the rese'ryediancl, Viz;, ' sections 22,, 23,, 24, ,25, block VIII," In ver ciEtrgiUHi^ctrcds," for Educational purposes. ; * 1y y ;.; yy y j, -V y_ i_- y. T
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Southland Times, Volume I, Issue 24, 26 July 1864, Page 2
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2,472PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Southland Times, Volume I, Issue 24, 26 July 1864, Page 2
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