PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Southland Times, Volume III, Issue 47, 24 February 1864, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

i MONDAY, 22jtd FEBRUARY. MOBOTG.&TTINGK f -Tho Deputy Speaker took the Chair &\ a s ouartor past 12 o'clook. ' : Present, Messrs. I Chalmers, Cowan, Y M'Kay,. -Jackson, Scott, I *^ ft ider, Wilson, Howell, and Beaven, ■;;■ { Mr. roWAJf made tho folio wing motion, ■ -ffhioli was an amended form (by permission of * the Houso) of ono on tlie same subjoot jjlacod !an tho now 0 * 65 -* in ; hi 3' name:— "That a 1 yjsneotftil address, be.presented to His Honor , \ t he Suporintehdent, informing* liim tliat- it is f jjjg opinion of this House tliat under the-pro- ! yisloa* of tho Pi*ovihcialYC3'OVornir\e'nt: Ordinijnce.Ko. 8, 1862, ; all .jpdwers that: can ho [ Ideally conferrod'by tho said Ordinance should I jby •' the Superintendent; only ' i yith the advice; andconsent of an Executive Council. Moro especially, it is the opinion of I this Council/ 5 that all monies appropriated by \ it should be' expended under the supervision jof a Q Excutive Council, chosen trom its who will be responsible to thisCounj dl. This House most respectfully desire 'to be \ joformed whether the Superintendent concurs j in those views." - He said, in bringing forward j a naddress, such as the motion referred to, he > mfaht state^that, the question involved had '- been frequently discussedby the Houseduring j the past week, and it was his firm belief 'that * the more it.wasdiscussedj; the more' intricate, i the more difficult it became ;' the longer it was ; prolonged, so much the longer would tliey be , I in coming to a solution. ITie foiin in which tl he brought forward the address insisted on j His Honor the Superintendent giving a very I simple reply, " yea "or " nay." "He believed ; that in drawmg ;up the form of the ? resolution on the : address » referred, to j he i had done so in exact accordance With the ] views of hon.members of that YHoiise^ but if i it were not in accordance -with those views, he -*, -would be most* happy if any member would propose ah amendment embodying mpre : par- : ticularly his views.- The answer which they I would receive- from his Honor the Super-'' ■■ intendent woidd be a guide for theh 'future, \- conduct, and it. was of the utmost importance \ that it should embody more particularly fhe principles on which they were to act, and V actions would depend. If an affirmative reply was given by His Honor, he (Sir. Cowan) presumed that in -the appointment of an Executive, everything would be carried on as * hitherto ; but if His Honor's reply was iv the from the* decision of which theh* future -negative, the only course the House would ; be to request a dissolution. A negative reply would, at all events, remove the onus of retard- : mo- the pubhc interests— of retarding the Province, from the members of the Council, and placing it on His Honor. Mr. CALDER, after suggesting a slight amendment, which was adopted, making the motion as above given, seconded it. . Jlr. WILSON thought the wording of the Ordinance left it open- for His Honor to take advice and act without the consent of his Executive in several other matters than those ♦specially referred to by the address. Sir. CALDER remarked that the same wording had been introduced in the Otago Ordinance. Mr. TARLTON wished to ask whether tliey intended in that expression of opinion, tbat the Executive Council was alone to be consulted on those powers which the Ordinance, referred to in the resolution, specified as those belonging to the position of tiie Superintendent. (" No, no," from Mr. Chalmers.) Mr. COWAN said certainly not. There were many others competent to advise His /^OHor besides his Executive Council. "(Mr. CHALMERS said there might be orfier matters which they coidd not , compel Eis Honor to consult them on, and which if he did, would only be by an extension of courtesy on liis part. If, however, they agreed with the terms of the address referred fcin the resolution, it would be the means of defining the powers of the Executive Council in such a way that there would be no misunderstanding them. Mr. WILSON would propose an amendment, which, although embodying the same views as those in the motion, and with which he agreed, he considered was better worded, and embraced the question more immediately before the House. The Superintendent ofthe Province had made a direct demand for a specific charge to be made against him, and tlie adoption of the motion woidd leave thefr answer in the samestate of doubt as before. He considered it" was wrong of the House to shirk His Honor's demand. It appeared to him as'if the House was afraid to answer His Honor's demand. ("No, no," from Mr. Chalmers.) He would therefore submit the following as an amendment — " That, in reply to His Honor ' the Superintendent's demand, that the charge indirectly conveyed in the " note " signed by nine members of this Council, and subsequently endorsed by the Provincial Council, should be made specifically and openly, the Provincial Council would respectfully submit that the evidence submitted to the Provincial Council by the late members of the Executive Council is, that His Honor the Superintendent made an appointment* to an important office — namely Engineer of Roads and Bridges — contrary to, or without the consent of the Executive Council. That for the good government of the Province, and to insure the • amicable relations that should subsist between the Superintendent and Provincial Council in all matters purely provincial,' 'aiid not delegated powers by a higher authority than the Provincial Council, the Superintendent should administer the functions of Grovernment with the advice and consent of the Executive G-o---vernment. That the members of the Executive Council should be directly responsible for their action to the Provincial Council." " That it has been stated to this House that your Honor has acted without and contrary to the advice of the Executive Council in one instance, for example, in- the appointment of Engineer of Koads and ' Bridges." The amendment not being seconded, lapsedMr, TARLTON was disposed to think that the best thing the Council could- do in such an important mattter was to do nothing at all (a laugh), seeing that they were hot. unanimous in the opinion expressed. He was quite sure that neither the resolution nor amendment expressed his views on the subject.. He was not convinced that the Council ought hot to he consulted as to the exercise of* all 'other powers possessed by the Superintendent. After a few words of explanation. from Mr. Calder and the mover of .the resolution; it "was put by the Deputy-Superintendent and carried without, any dissent.. THS LATE APPOINTMENT Ol* BOADS ENGINEEE. Mr. CHALMERS having obtained the leave of the House, moved the following -as a substitution' of the motion standing/ in '-' his name oh, the notice- paper :—" That-until His Honor the Superintendent has an opportunity afforded him of explaining the manner in wliich thei appointment of Engineer bf Roads and Bridges was made, this House, from the the evidence adduced, hasbeen led to assume ihat the provisions of the Provincial Government Ordinance ; have not been adhered to, in as far as consulting the Executive* Council is concerned, and respectf ully requests liis Honor to give ah explanation ofY the matter.; .Eur-? ther} this House 1 demands that no independent action should be taken by His Honor in matters in which a Superintendent is: bound , by the Ordinance above referfed-to to, act only with the advice and consent of ' the Executive Council. This. Hoxise also /Cbiisiders that His Honor should in ail -matters consult -his Executive "Council, . for although no Provincial law can control vHis' ..'Honor's 'Action- 'in the exercise of pbware .oonfeirfe'd 7^^ byYa: superiorY

Logislfttoe, tlii&HotisG totisiders that those powers are conferred only for tho bone St of the Province, and thafc His Honor, in acting by the advice of the Executive Council mi theap, matters, would more ft&irly represent tjie true position of a Superintendent.' Mr. WILSON, in seconding the resolution, explained that he would not have -brought forward his amendment ;on the previous motion of Mr. Cowan, if ho had known tho terms of. thp ono then proposed by Mr. Chalmers j but* he had not had an opportunity of soeing the raotice.pftpor.bofore*.;, :-,,yA- :z - ! V- y j Mr, TAKLTON considered the resolution, before 'the Hdiise tho most * tmgtatesmanliko doanJnent lio : had ever seen;- -He thought they ot^ght.to giye, lib Honor an. opportunity of explaining his 1 reasons, tfhey had no right to assume whether they were, or were not; quito in accordance with a certain Ordinance. /There -shp.iild boya vcle{vr ; ; ,statome>nt ; :of ; ;the charge, ni order to allow Ifis feonor to niake a' cl6str statement to the Cbtincil'ini'eply, and, if after hearing both sides, it was found that the Ordinance had been violated, it would then be competent for the Council to express its. opinion* ;, ;y /. yyy- ■ ■'■ y "' Mr. CHALMERS thought the hon. member had better, perhaps, move an amendment to the resolution. .Mr.- TARLTON would have been prepared with one, had he only known before the terms of the motion to be proposed. He had, however, a rough draft of a resolution, which he had drawn 'up on Saturday When 'the question was before the House, and which he would submit as an amendment. It was as follows : —" Your Honor has seen fit to convene tliis Council without the existence of Executive advisers. The under-current of assumption which, by your Honor, is said to pervade part of the reply to your Honor's address, has arisen from this event. Measures of the utmost importance involving an expenditure to an enormous amount have been laid before us, concerning which not only has advice not been taken, but no legally constituted body exists to give council on any matter to whatever extent it may affect the well-being of the Province.- We need scarcely say -that whatever causes may have led to such an event it is as inj imous as a precedent as it is fraught with damage to the public weal. This, Sir, is : * all that tliis Council ' endorses.' " ' Explanations ' have certainly been given to this House by gentlemen who composed the late Executive Couucil which may have influenced our opinions, because such explanation directly iinpimed the conduct of the Superintendent as frequently acting without his Council's advice. The following case was specified. That in the month of His Honor promised the appointment of Engineer of roads, &c., to a gentleman previous to consulting his Executive Council at all on the subject, aud before intimating that such a promise had been given, wished an expression of their opinion on the case, when on finding it unfavorable he stated to them before leaviug for Auckland that in the event of the gentleman's non-appeaeancc in a reasonable time the Deputy-Superinten-dent and other members of the Executive Council were to advertise for candidates for the aforementioned ofhce, and yet at the same time, and unknown to the Deputy-Superin-tendent, his Honor left such appoint ment with the Deputy in an enclosed envelope addressed to the gentlemau at present holding the ofiice." Mr. M'KAY seconded the amendment. After some cross firing between Mr. CHALMERS and Mr. TARLTON, with regard to the signification of the term " assume," which had been introduced into the discussion, Mr. BEAVEN said he had great doubts whether it was advisable to enter at all into the question, If tlie charge vm* proved, they woidd stand in the same position as before. The question, lie thought, was not whether His "onorhad acted witliout the consent of his Executive, but whether lie intended to do so in future — that, it appeared to him, should be the rftil question between His Honor and that Council. Under those circumstances, he thought it would be better to drop the present charge altogether. Mr. "WILSON was in favor of keeping to the terms of the resolution. His Honor had demanded that a charge should be made openly, and specifically, to give him an opportunity of meeting it ; why, therefore, should the Council shirk the question, and not give His Honor the opportunity he had a right to ask for. "Let the charge be made distinctly, and not " assumed," by the House, and by adopting tlie resolution, he behoved it was not assumed. The amendment was lost, and the original motion carried, without a division. The House adjourned at twenty minutes to two o'clock.