EVENING SITTING.

Southland Times, Volume III, Issue 45, 19 February 1864, Page 6

EVENING SITTING.

The Speaker took the Chan* at seven o'clock. Present — Messrs. Scotfc, Calder, Stuart, Wilson, Howell, Tarlton, M'Kay, Cowan, Sogers, Beaven and Chalmers. * jSTotices op Motion. Mr. SCOTT gave notice, that at to-morrow morning's sitting he would move — " That a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, requesting that a sum may he placed on the Estimates for establishing a library for the use of the Council." Mr. CALDER laid on the table the report of the Select Committee appointed to- consider Mr. Chalmers' petition. He moved that it be read. Mr. ROGERS seconded, and the Clerk fead the following : — •" Irom 'iLLke inquiries which your Committee have made, they find that fche office of Interim Treasurer was the first office to which Mr. Chalmers was -appointed ; but previous to his appointment this ofiice had been offered to another gentleman, who was not appointed because incapable of finding sufficient security. This gentleman was not a member of the Provincial Council. After having held the office of Interim Treasurer for some time, Mr. Chalmers was gazetted Sub-Treasurer, and held tlie office for the space of seven months, when he was appointed Provincial Treasurer. "At tlie time of this latter appointment we have not been able to ascertain that any communication was made by the Superintendent tp" "any other member of the Executive as to the nature of the office, that is — whether it was to he regarded as a permanent or a political office ; but every member of the Executive, .'■ atthe time of the appointment, believed the appointment to be one of a permanent character, and that the opinion never appears to have been entertained by the Executive who then held office, that it would ever be considered one of a political nature. " W. H. Calder, " Chairman. " Henry Rogers, "W. F. Tarlton." Mr. CALDER moved— ■' That the report be adopted." The Committee had laid, in substance, before the House, exactly the evidence they had been able to collectMr. ROGERS seconded the motion. He was not aware whether he was able to bring up the original motion, and asked if it was still before the House. • ; Mr. SPEAKER said it was for the Coun-. cil to decide. -.Mr.. COWAN" submitted that there was simply, the question as to the adoption of the report before the House, r Mr. ROGERS was quite ready to take that view, and simply second the adoption of thereporfc.. ,; Mr. WILSON, after having the report again read, thought the Superintendent was a member of the Executive. . He would have Mm take 'the: advice of the Executive Council, but would be the last to seethe Superintendent snubbed. , Here was a reportMr. ROGERS rose to order. - Mr. SPEAKER ruled that Mr. Wilson was quite in order. Mr. WILSON continued by saying they should see what they could do now for the future, since they did . not know what to do •with the past. Therefore, he would move in effect— "That' whether the office of Provincial Treasurer was a political ""one up to this time ; the Council, declines to determine." When the re2Jort was brought up, it was quite right to # read it, but whether it was right to adopt it was another matter. Some members -had doubts ■on the subject, therefore he made the amendment. „ Mr. CALDER explained that the report was simply an epitome of the evidence;, and ,he was quite willing- to withdraw it, if .hon.

members thought they were affirming a principle against 'which they had objections. Mr. SPEAKER considered thafc Mr. . Wilson's motion was a different one altogether. It was not an amendment. Mr. CALDER agreed, "rand asked leave to withdraw - , Ms motion. It really did not' matter ; whether the Council adopted the report or not, as it* was simply evidence, to bo. taken for what it was worth. .. Mr. M'KAY pointed out a small error 'that had crept into the report;. It said that the whole Executive, did not consider the office a political appointment.. He, for one, never, considered it a permanent appointment. He thought the 'report should be. modified on tMs head. Mr. COWAN on looking at the petition, saw that, its very back-bone was a request for the House to express an opinion,, arid ,. he wOuld he sorry if it did not clo so. If they received the petition^ it. was certakdy their duty to pronounce, upon it.! Mr. SCOTT did not tMnk '/the members" were prepared that evening to give an', opinion, He thought the report should -he on the table, and the opinion could be given at some future, time.:, ,-*.,,.'■..-.... ; . Mr.-, CALDER asked leave to withdraw Ms motion, and' lay the. report on the table. - Mr. BOGERS seconded, and the motion was. agreed to.- ..,--.-' r- ,- ' /^HE ESTIMATES. Mr. CHALMEBS said, that beforo the Estimates were passed, he thought it bettor to go on with other business. He therefore craved leave nofc to consider the Estimates just then, but adjourn them till Friday, or, if neccssaiy, still later. Mr. STUART seconded the motion. Mr. BOGERS moved as an amendment " that it is the opinion of this Council that the relations at present existing between the Provincial Council and His Honor the Superintendent, and the absence of any Executive Council in tliis House precludes tMs Council from ontering into any more measures than absolutely necessary for carrying on the business of trie Province. Thafc on passing a now Representation Bill, passing an Appropriation Ordinance for such sums as are already expended, and for such sums as will meet the necessary expenditure until 30th June next, tliis Council memorialize His Excellency the G-overnor for their dissolution ; and that His Honor be respectfully requested not to have the Estimates prepared until the 30th June." He woidd not have brought this motion forward, but he found that the question still remained before the Council wliich existed when they first assembled. The whole of the measures brought forward which he considered necessary, were put ofi 1 from day to day, no one forwarding them because the relations between the council and Superintendent were the same. He saw no chance of any end to this, no chance of tho measures wliich are most important. Bills to raise money, to be laid out they did not know how — being passed. Perhaps might be spent by a -Superintendent with arbitrary powere, perhaps by one with the powers vested in and by the constitution and tho Provincial Ordinances. Everything depended on who was to lay out the money, and till that was first decided, whether His Honor was right in exercising unlimited power had the right of paying off the officers appointed, ordering any works to be proceeded with or stopped, ma-king alterations on works ordered or passed by the Council, so that they exceed the amount, not five per cent., but afc one jump, — as was mentioned by a member of liis Executive, — thirty per cent, of the amount at wliicli tbey were originally passed to his surprise within the last month. He (Mr. Rogers) apologised for having broken the thread of Ms argument, and would begin again. These measures then were still before them, and they did not know how the money was to be spent. It was undoubtedly the fact, because last session they passed an Ordinance to mako this Bluff and Invercargill Bailway, and the sum of £140,000 was supposed to be sufficient ; now they were asked for £40,000 more, and surprise had been expressed by His Honor and the Executive that they had to call for that amount. The idea- of a Government being surprised that it should requu-3 £40,000 more a month back than it did twelve months back. That was one < »rdinance. Another was for the loan of £25,000, for the town of Invercargill. He had no doubt- that sum might be very well spent on tho town ; but not having tho money, he thought it hard that tho Council should borrow it to lend it to the town. The reply received the previous night from His Honor, entered into the particulars of a dispute about a matter minor in itself, but which some members of the Council considered touched at a principle thafc ought to be supported, had been the cause of arriving afc the present climax. Ifc had caused nearly the whole Council to pledge themselves not to form an Executive, and without thafc he did not consider the G-overnment legal. The notes wliicb had p-issecl between the Superintendent, and, in the first place, the gentlemen who sigued the memorandum to him ; in the second place, the reply, from the Council to the remarks of His Honor, in his address to the Council ; aud, siuce then, the reply of His Honor to that reply, which again calls for an j answer, extended the difference to an indefinite ) time. It must be closed. They could not agree on that point ; let them hope a now Council woidd. It was impossible for the Council t-o agree with His Honor on the subject they differed upon afc present. Therefore it was his opinion — and he had tried to express not only his own opinion, but that of others — thafc they shoidd pursue the plan indicated, wMch was, that siuce the present Council could not agree with His Honor as to the rights of each, the sooner they were dissolved the better, and tliat those important measures, may be, and should be, left to fche new Council. They should be left to a Council working in unison with the Superintendent, and not in one in antagonism to Mm. After a brief consultation with other members, Mr. Rogers asked leave to withdraw the amendment he had just made. Mr. TARLTON asked on what ground '■ Mr. CHALMERS,— To enable Mm to bring forward another motion. Mr. TARLTON thought it a pity the motion was withdrawn. Tho motion was then put and carried. THE NEW RAILWAY LOAN. The House went into Committee on the Debentures Bill, No, 1, for raising £40,000 for the Bluff and Invercargill Bailway. In the course of considering it, the following letter was read : — " Invercargill. February 13th, 1864. " Sir, — I understand that an impression exists in the Provincial Council, either that the cost of constructing the Bluff Bailway has exceeded my estimates for that work, or else that in the progress of the undertaking, additional works unforeseenin the original designs has become necessary. " I hope that you will convey to the Council the assurance that rieifcher of these opinions has any foundation in facfc, and if there should be any disposition to maintain such a charge, I trust, that the sense of justice of fhe Council will cause them to allow it to be investigated. " I have the honor to be, Sir, " Your obedient servant, ' "Theo. Heaxe. " Nathaniel Chalmers, Esq., M.P.C." The second clause was passed, and the House resumed. PROPOSED DISSOLUTION. Mr. BOG-EBS moved—" The suspension of the Standing Orders, that he might be enabled to move without grvmg notice of motion." Mr. CHALMERS seconded, and the Standing Ordere were suspended. ;

'■■'Mr. BOG-EBS then moved, as a motion— "The amendment he withdrew/ His re-, marks on the subject were to the same effect as those already. given. ■:■■_'■-■.■ *'• Mr. SCOTT seconded the motion. : -,--■■ .. ;Mr.' .WILSON observed that all the Bills already brought into the House "were for what •was considered works of necessity to the Province. He had no objection to the principle of the 'motion/ but to give more tune "to -'wind tip the present 'affairs,' he suggested that the trine should be extended to the 30th June, wMch would end and begiri the financial year. Besides being 'mid- 1 - winter, little pr .notMng could be done On the roads or other -public "works. -•'■•■"'' Mr. BOGERS would be ..-happy to /adopt the suggestion. Yh-. ■-.• ■ ■■ ■---. The time, 'wMch in ; the original motion was limited ' to three months, was accordingly altered to 30th June. Mr. CALDER heartily ''concurred with almost every sentence in the motion. At the same tiirie he ■*' thought the House should proceed with His Honor's reply, because since His Honor, had joined issue With, the Council on one or ''two points, it was possible when they were- brought forward, His Honor - might come to the same view as the Council. Before adopting the resolution, therefore, he woidd . consider the reply, answer the points/ and allow His Honor the opportunity of doing what; he was: wished to do. The resolution woidd shut out the possibility of getting thafc, and he recommended deferring it till they had considered the reply. Mr. SCOTT agreed with Mr. Calder's remarks. Mr. CHALMERS moved that the debate on the question be adjourned till after consideration of His Honor's reply. Mr. CALDER seconded the motion, which was agreed to. Mi-. TARLTON asked if there wa/S any motion concerning the Superintendent's reply ? Mr. CHALMERS believed it was moved to consider it on Friday. Mr. TARLTON : By whom ? Mr. CHALMERS : The Council, I presume. Mr. TARLTON : But by whom ? Mr. CHALMEBS referred to the minutes, where it was inserted " moved by Mr. Chalmers, seconded by Mr. Cowan, &c." Notices of Motion. Mr. BOGERS gave notice that at to-mor-row morning's sitting he would move — '" That in the opinion of tMs House a complete system of retrenchment and economy is absolutely essential to the security of public credit ; that the experience of past years has shown tlie utter usclessness of expenditure upon roads during the winter, and thafc therefore no monies further than the sum sufficient for maintaining those portions of roads which are worthy of being so maintained, shall bo expended. That the* staff of all such departments as may be safely reduced in numbers shall be so reduced ; aud the strictest economy observed throughout the whole departments. " Mr. WILSON gave notice that, at tomorrow morning's sitting, he would move " That a special committee be appointed to inquire into the construction of the 131uff Harbor and Invercai'gill Hailway, with power to call for papers, persons, and reports, and for leave to report from time to time. Committee to coimsisfc of Messrs. Tarlton, Scott, and the mover." Tho House then adjourned at 8.40 p.m.