THE MAIN HIGHWAY.

Shannon News, 14 October 1927, Page 1

THE MAIN HIGHWAY.

COST OF PIONEERING. HOROWHENTJA COUNTY PAYS FOR EXPERIENCE. TEX PER CENT LEVY WILL BE NECESSARY. The report which has followed the investigations of the Works Committee of the Horowhenua County Council into th© construction and cost of the Main Highways scheme in the County was discussed at the meeting of the Council on Saturday, and the report was adopted with some slight amendments. It showed that out of £80,704 so far spent on the scheme, £13,933 has been expended in excess of the estimate, and of this excess £11,787 applies to the section from the Waikanae river to the Otaki bridge. The Chairman indicated that most of the remaining work could be carried out with the 10 per cent which the Council is allowed to raise in addition to the original loan of £74,000 (which was subsidised by the Main Highways Board to make a total estimated cost of £148,000). The Le-vin-Wirokino Bridge section, however, is postponed until the future position can be closely considered. At the commencement of the meeting of the Council on Saturday, the Chairman, replying to a request by Cr. Jensen for information regarding the discontinuance of work on the Main Highways, stated that he did not know the exact number of men put? off, but practically the whole of the men on the Waikanae-Te Horo section, with the exception-of one spreader and the gang running No. 3 crusher at the Te Horo pit, were off. The length between Otaki and Manakau was completed except for Bevan's corner and the strengthening metal. The formation of the Shannon-Makerua section was finished, and a section of the formation between Makerua and Tokomaru north boundary was about completed. The question of what work should be done next would be dealt with at the next meeting of the Works Committee. The work- now being done was that of strengthening and of supplying chips and metal for penetration. THE COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDATIONS. The report of the Works Committee was as under: Your Committee at their last meeting considered a report submitted to them by the Special Committee which was'appointed to consider the position of Main Highways expenditure and such other matters as may be deemed expedient in connection therewith. We submit with this report a statement which shows: (a).Estimate of each'length of Main Highway for the Loan Poll. (h). Estimate of each length ■of Main Highway after survey. (e). Expenditure on each length to date. (d). Excess of expenditure and estimated amount required to complete each section.

After due consideration and investigation your Committee have to submit the following recommendations: — 1. That the Council concentrate on the completion of the main highway from Waikanae to Tokomaru,'and that the length from Levin to Wirokiim Bridge be held over in the- meantime until the Council are in a position to decide what action can be taken. 2. That before construction work is commenced on a new length of Main Highway, the Engineer first supply the Council with an estimate of the cost.

H. That the Engineer supply to the Council monthly, a return showing an approved estimated construction expenditure on each length of Main Highway and the amount spent to date. 4. That a" return of the income and expenditure of the various crushing plants be supplied to the Works Committee quarterly by the Engineer. 5. That prices for metal carting be submitted to the councillors for the riding concerned, before being agreed upon. 0. (a) That no wages be paid or transfers made for metal supplies or hire of plant prior to the same being approved and certified by the Engineer, (b) That the Engineer set aside at least part of a day prior to wages being paid to approve of the same and certify, (c) That all accounts for payment 'be initialled" by the Engineer prior to a voucher being drawn, (d) That the Engineer set aside the Thursday preceding a Council meeting for certifying accounts and general Council business and that he also attend the Finance Committee meeting prior to the Council meeting. 7. That the various foremen, in charge of gangs be supplied with time books for alternate fortnights, so that the same might be available to the Engineer and the Finance Committee for a fortnight after each pay. 8. That Mr Callander be made available, as soon as possible to attend to by-laws and the requirements of the

Motor Vehicles Act, and generally act'B in the capacity of assistant engineer. ■ Your Committee also make the fol- ■ lowing recommendations: — '9 9. j.nat tenders be called for the do- ■ viation at Mr George Bevan's, Otaki. ■ 10. That tenders be called for fenc- ■ ing the drain on the Koputaroa-Foxton H Bond for a distance of approximately ■ half a mile. —F. J. Ryder, Chairman. ■ ANALYSIS OF CONSTRUCTION ■ ESTIMATES AND COSTS.. ■ The return furnished to the Works'■ Committee by the Engineer was as fol-Bj No! 1 HIGHWAY (WELLINGTON-H AUCKLAND, VIA TAEANAKI). H TE HORO RIDING. ■ Waikanae River to Otaki Bridge. H Estimate for Loan Poll 23 ' 74 M Estimate after survey 23,95aH Expenditure to Sept. 10 35..742M Excess of expenditure over -J^^ estimate 11,78^H Estimate of amount required to complete 2,00^8 OTAKI RIDING. ■ Otaki Bridge to Manakau Stream. .■ Estimate for poll 14,48^H Estimate after survey 16,14f1H Expenditure 9 ' 42 -^l Manakau Stream to Waikawa StreamJM Estimate for poll .".. 6,27 H Estimate after survey Expenditure 6,s6^H Excess of expenditure ; 59^B| Required to complete 20J^H WIROKINO RIDING. H Waikawa Stream to Levin South ~^fl Boundary. -Hi Estimate for poll ll,oflßH Estimate after survey , 10 ' 2^H Expenditure llf^^^H Excess of expenditure I;^jH Required to complete Levin to Wirokino Bridge. J^H Estimate for poll 27 ' 7 SH (Survey not complete). Expenditure n i^l NO. 60 HIGHWAY (LEVIN-PAL-^B MERSTON N. VIA SHANNON).M| WIROKINO RIDING. BB Levin to Waoku Stream. Estimate for poll 10 'v^^fl Estimate after survey Expenditure Excess of expenditure Hfl Required to complete

Waoku Stream to Wirokino North Boundary. £ Estimate for poll 13,533 Estimate after survey 14,413 Expenditure nl *- TOKOMAEU. Wirokino North Boundary to Shannon. Estimate for poll ' 6,(i06 (Survey not complete.) Expenditure ml - Shannon to Makerua Railway Station. £ Estimate fdr poll 11,272 Estimate after survey Expenditure 3,533 Makerua Railway Station to Tokomaru North Boundary. ... £ Estimate for poll 23,204 (Survey not complete.) Expenditure 1,639 TOTALS. £ Estimate for Loan Poll 148,405 Expenditure to Sept. 10 80,704 Excess of expenditure over estimate 13,9f>3 Amount required to complete four sections 2,700 THE CHAIRMAN'S COMMENTS. . The chairman, in moving the adoption of the report, stated that the recommendations had „ been before two committees- and had been agreed upon, with slight amendment, by the Works Committee. In the first place, in connection with th-c Main Highways scheme, an estimate was submitted prior to the loan poll. After the survey was made, an amended estimate was put in, which was submitted to the Highways Board and approved by them. Referring to the return now supplied, the chairman said that the excessive expenditure was not serious on any length of the road except as it applied to the Te Horo Riding. The total excess in the County was approximately £14,000. The committee had analysed, to some extent, what had brought that about; and, whilst they had not complete figures, they found in the first place that the County Engineer (Mr W. N. Anderson) had suggested that the shoulders of the highway were responsible for a considerable amount of that expense. The chairman was of opinion that they were responsible for about £3OOO of it. Except on the length between Otaki and Te Horo, the whole of the stuff in those shoulders had had to he carted. He referred to the six inches raised above the level of the old road; there was not the filling under them that was estimated previously. HEAVY EXPENSE FOR METAL. Another item responsible for a good deal of the expense was the added strengthening metal which was required, particularly on the swamp section, and a good deal on the section between Te Horo and the Otaki bridge. It" was a section which they had thought would be one of the cheapest in the County, but it was a most irregular piece of road, being up and down and partly in the swamp. It w r as impossible to cut down in the swamp and make suitable cuttings, so they had had to fill the valleys and bring them up to the.highest spots. There had only been a thin crust of metal and they had had to spent £3BOO for extra metal there. With regard to the clean metal and chips, there was a difference between the Engineer's estimate and the cost that had had to be charged. The amount of metal was the same, but the amount, that had to be charged was in excess, and the Engineer found that this was brought about by the plant not producing as cheaply as he thought it would and because he did not take into consideration sinking fund and interest on its running cost and making provision for the renewal fund. Consequently he had had to increase the cost to the extent of 5s a yard on the metal, which accounted for £3100; also on 3000 yards of chips. There was an extra culvert on that section, which cost £7lO. The culverts put in some years ago, had been completely crushed, particularly in the swamp area. Presumably the balance of the excessive cost had gone in filling. Apparently, on any other length of the road that they had analysed so far, there had been no great excess of expenditure over the estimate, despite the increased price that had to be paid for metal and the shoulders that had to be built. Were it not for the excessive expenditure in Te Horo, they would be well within the estimate. It might be suggested that any excessive expenditure had been wasted. He did not for one moment admit that because there had been excessive expenditure there had been extravagance. A grave error had been made in the estimate for this section —that was practically admitted — but to say that if any other method •had been adopted there would have been any great saving, he did not think it would be correct. Whilst there had been a great deal more expense than the Council anticipated when 'they submitted the scheme to the ratepayers, he did not think the committee were making this report with a view to saying that the Council had been negligent or that there had been grave extravagance or any great waste. In a, big job like this, one would expect some leakage and waste, but he did not see that that had happened. He did not think it would have been possible to have saved any great amount of money. It was very disappointing to the Council that the Te Horo riding had been one. where there had been such excessive expenditure. He was not going to admit, and he did not think that anyone could suggest; that it would have been better left alone. OTHER SECTIONS. With regard to the section, Otaki bridge to Manakau stream, said the chairman, it was felt that it would

probably be (lone well within the amended estimate, judging by the expenditure up to the present. The amended estimate was £1657 above the

estimate submitted at the loan poll. On ,~ the section Waikawa stream to Levin - south boundary, the expenditure was ;?■'- which was less than the original esti-

mate. There were two or three bridges which were included in a separate estimate, but not in the main estimate submitted to the Highways Board, and they had become "excessive expenditure." These were at Manakau (estimated to cost £400), Waikawa (£2000), and Kuku (£200). There bad been no survey on the section, Levin to Wirokino bridge, for which the original estimate was £27,731. For the section, Shannon to Makerua railway station, the second estimate was £I2OO more than the first, and £3533 had been spent. This section could be completed with the unexpended balance. With regard to the section, Makerua railway station to Tokomaru north boundary, on which £1630 had been spent, the survey, he believed, was finished, but the second estimate was not complete.

"The position we have arrived at," the chairman added, "is this: that the investigation reveals or confirms the excessive expenditure, as it affects the proposal as placed before the ratepayers at the loan poll; and if we raise 10 per cent, on the loan of £74,000, it will leave us in the position that we will practically complete the road from Waikawa to Tokomaru and build these bridges, and the balance left out of the loan will be about £4OOO. "As far as the Wirokino section is concerned, we will practically be short of the money to com-

plete that section. "That is the position after this analysis, which is as careful as we can make it. What it has divulged is that the excess is in the Te Horo riding, which will, have to bear the burden unless Cr. Jensen is able to have them all declared main roads. Cr. Jensen: I hope to. NO EVIDENCE OF SERIOUS WASTE The Chairman: If .£14,000 more is to be spent, £7ooo'of it will fall on the riding. That means that £SOO more interest and sinking fund has to be found by that'riding. That is not the whole position. When the loan poll was taken, the position of Te Horo was better than that revealed in any other riding; it had a greater balance. The other excessive expenditure, while we Avould much"rather see it come out within the estimate, is not great. The economical side of our calculations has not been such as to cause any grave concern; but as far as Te Toro is concerned, it is rather grave. The only outstanding feature is that we are getting a really first-class road, which is somewhat of an asset. I have spoken, not to make any excuses, but for the purpose of trying to reveal the true position as Ave found it. You have to take an estimate as an estimate, and until it is proved wrong we must accept it as nearly right. Any engineer is liable to make a mistake, and in tins case there are various factors that have contributed to that mistake being made. I don't for one moment admit that because excessive expenditure has taken place over the estimate, anyone can point to any very grave waste. If anybody can do so, we. would be only too pleased to have that position pointed out. There is not the slightest doubt that if we were tackling this job again, we Avould not go about it in quite the.same manner as in the previous work. That is to say, if we had to do it as pioneers of this scheme in New Zealand, we would want a more careful estimate taken. This would have to be done after a complete engineering survey had been made before we could conclude that the estimate was the right one. A flying estimate may be all right, but you may make very grave errors. There are certain parts of our plant which we would not have the same as in the past. It is experience that has taught us that. While we have endeavoured to get the best expenditure of the ratepayers' money, our experience has shown us that we have made some mistakes in that direction. I have discussed with the Engin-

eer the necessity for our work to go on as far as our money will go. It is the opinion of the committee that that will probably complete No. 1 Highway as far as Levin and No. 60 Highway between Levin and Tokomaru Practically all the construction work has stopped at this stage, because those sections on which we were engaged are completed The Coun- . cil has to decide what construction work must go on. This summer, unless certain construction work goes on, the paving plant will not be fully employed. Between Levin and the Waikawa stream the paving work will be completed with the exception of Bevan's Corner. There will be a section at Tokomaru and at Makerua, and it is hoped that there is a possibility that one length of that will be completed this year; but if there is not sulncien. to keep the plant employed there next season, it will be necessary to have construction work on other lengths to keep the machinery going. 1 have suggested to Mr. Anderson that he submit to the next meeting of the Works Committee a report as to what lie advises should go on, so as to be in a position to. meet the required work as far as the whole of the plant is concerned during t-*e coming season. The Chairman formally moved the adoption of the report, and the motion was seconded by Or. Ryder. COUNCILLORS' CRITICISIMS. Cr. Jenson stated that members of the Works Committee had .only had the report before them for * few minutes before debating it. ¥nm February Ist to March 31st a certain amount of metal had been crushed and put out on the toads, also from April Ist to September 10th, amounting to 18,880 yards. It would e necessary to know how much of that metal had gone to the Otaki riding, before they could see how the Te Ho'ro riding stood. Speak' ing from memory, he thought that the metal estimated for the To Horo riding was somewhere about 16,000 yards. He did not know how much of this had gone into the Otaki riding. There was, he believed, an item of about £BO for repairs to plant, and that seemed to be charged to the Te Horo riding, In-

cluded in the figures was £3OOO which was allowed for extra filling after the shoulders were built'.

The Chairman: I should have allowed that first, because the shoulders were built on top of them. Cr. Jenson: The only solution is that we have been supplied with wrong estimates. The second was a survey estimate, and there was no guesswork there! Between the two estimates for Te Horo there was only a difference of £2ll. To make an estimate like that you are not acting altogether on the blind. I appreciate that it is a most difficult section on which to make an exact estimate. I feel somewhat alarmed that the work has not been checked and that the Council was not made aware of the facts 12 months ago. WORKING IN THE DARK.

The Chairman: If there is any blame upon us, it is because we Avere not aware of any excessive expenditure taking place until six months ago. •Cr. Jensen: Twelve months ago we ought to have been aware of it. Cr. McLeavey; Nothing like £14,000. Cr. Jensen: The loss we anticipated is trebled now. We cannot help it; but I do hope that we will get the adjustment between the ridings. Otaki ought to bear the burden with us. We all enter into this contract with each, other. The.crusher was erected there, and surely that is not going to be borne by Te Horo riding; nor should the repairs be paid by it —that comes out of the revenue which it may earn. As regards the Otaki riding, they are certainly getting all the daylight put into their* work so far as crushing is concerned, and that daylight work is certainly less in expenditure. Why should the Otaki riding have the benefit of it? I ask that they share with us this extra cost; it is only a fair thing. We should never have started on these highways on the riding system; we should have made it all county work. We would have borne an equal burden, and it would have saved an enormous amount of office work. Coming to some of the other sections, last year we were assured that some of these sections were in credit. Now we find one section £llOO in excess over the expenditure, and another one £594. How has this come about? If these figures are correct, the figures w*e got before must have been wrong. I suppose the money is spent—but hOAV Avas it spent, and why are they so much behind? I would like an explanation of these matters. I am sorry that our riding should be burdened to that extent, and that this should be sprung on to us Avhen Ave should hav-e knoAvn fhe position 12 months ago. SYMPATHY FOR TE HORO.

Cr. Catley: I feel very sorry for the position in which Te Horo is placed. Cr. Jensen: What about your oavu? Cr. Catley: Ours is nothing compared with yours. Cr. Jensen: Yours is not finished yet. Cr. Catiey: I lived 30-odd years down there, and I feel very sorry that you have got into these difficulties. Just how you haA'e got into them is beyond my comprehension. When .you see the small expenditure in:.the Wirokino riding compared Avith Te Horo, it is very hard to arrive at. The figures submitted are largely conjectural. The Engineer must surely have very much under-estimated the cost. I have always looked on it as a long strip of filling, and as the metal had to be carted it could not be other than expensive filling. When I compared the cost per mile with the other sections I eould not arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. In my opinion we have not been quite as rigid as we ought to have been; but even if there was not one copper Avasted, Ave could never have done the work for anything like the estimate —that is quite plain. There have been leakages, hoAvever, which, I maintain, could have been stopped. You have been charged Avith the cost of erecting the crusher when metal was crushed there for Otaki, and that should have been apportioned to the ridings.

EXPENSE WITH THE CRUSHER.

• The Chairman stated that thi plant was originally eivcted at Ohau, out of the loan money raised for the machinery. When the plant Avas shifted the charge Avas a burden on the Te Horo and Otaki ridings. The adjustments between those two ridings were going to be, from the Te Horo point of \ r ieAV, subject to a very close scrutiny. He would see that there Avas no charge made to Te Horo that should rightly be make to Otaki. Whereas the first erection of the plant Avas charged to the machinery loan, the subsequent erection Avas charged against the metal that was delivered from the crusher. It Avas very difficult to adjust these things. They had not been able to do the Avhole of the crushing at the originjal site. Whilst the crushing plant Avas a very fine one, it Avas not absolutely suited to the class of metal they had to crush, because of the means they had to take to deliver the metal to the crusher. Probably two smaller crushing plants would have been much more economical. They would have cost less to shift and could have followed the supplies of metal much more closely. The Council had evidently been wrongly advised, because their plant Avas more suitable for dealing Avith a metal or rock face, where the material Avas in one position. What they should have had Avas a mobile unit. This one was mobile at a cost, but the cost Avas too great and it had imposed a burden on the riding that Avas consuming the metal. As to adjustments of accounts between Otaki and Te Horo and any otfier riding, he would have the accounts carefully analysed, so that they would be in a better position to know j where some of the expenditure had gone.

Cr. Kilsby: What was the cost of shifting the crusher from Ohau to Te Horo?

The Chairman: The cost, including the erection of power lines, was about £3OO, of which about £BO was the cost of taking the high tension line to the plant from the existing line there. You could not have gone to a better spot tor boulders, but it only works for a

certain time and the supplies are gradually getting further aAvay. A CHANGING WORLD. Cr. Catley: I feel that Ave have very much in this riding to be thankful for, after Te Horo's experience, especially Avhen you consider that it is impossible to hold the old style of road in anything like decent shape, with the traffic nearly double Avhat it Avas three years ago. The Chairman: With 22 service cars running each day. Cr. Catley added that it Avas not possible for any engineer to draw up anything like a correct estimate in this connection. The only course by Avhieh they could keep on the safe side Avas by over-estimating; then, if an engineer's Avork came out beloAV his figures, he Avould get the credit for it. Conditions in these days had changed greatly. In the city the cost had run as high as 100 per cent, above the estimate, and the city and suburban highways shoAved an excess "cost of 80 per cent.

The Chairman: It is a neAV world.

Cr. Catley: I don't think the Engineer has been as tight as he might have been. He should have laid himself out to do better than AA-hat has been done. So far as we have gone in this riding, I am very Avell satisfied, but before Ave go any further Ave are going to have a report from him. I did move once that work stop in this riding. We knoAv where Ave stand iioav, and if, after having a further report on this riding, we go on and get into bad Avater over it, then it Avill be our oavu fault forgoing on with it. When this scheme was first brought before the ratepayers' meeting I Avas rather sceptical about it.

The Chairman: You Avere quite justified.

Cr. Catley: I believe the Avearing of the road is there; only the finish is not quite there. The Chairman: We are improving in that. -

Cr. Catley: Undoubtedly;; but Avhat should cost pounds to do is costing hundreds —taking off the shoulders. A couple of months ago the" Higlrways Board told us to put the grader on and take off the shoulders Avhieh they wanted us to put there. It does nof give one much confidence in them.

The Chairman: It Avas quite iioav work to them, as it Avas to us. We are really the pioneers of this in New Zealand, and Ave hope that the others will benefit by any faults that are discovered. Mr Anderson proposes to consult further with the engineers of the Highways Board Avith reference, if possible, to erecting less costly shoulders.

Councillors: Hear, hear. The Chairman: I made the suggestion, and I think it a good one, that before Mr Anderson reports on this, he shall consult the engineers. If they say that he must build the shoulders, the responsibility is as much theirs as ours. I am glad that Cr. Catley recognises that there is a responsibility attached to (them.

Cr. McLeavey said he Avas A'ery sorry indeed that the estimates had been exceeded by so large a sum. As for the Wirokino Riding, they Avere going to try to obviate any excess, if possible. It seemed to him, hoAvever, that there was no money to finish the Avork in the Wirokino riding. The Chairman: No. CONTRACTS SUGGESTED. Cr. McLeaA r ey: I don't see Avhere it is coming from. I am a great believer in contract, Avhere possible. The Chairman: You knoAv that our neighbouring county tackled it, and it Avas a sore point. Cr. McLeavey: I mean that for carting, wherever possible, Ave should haA'e it done by contract. A big leakage has been in the night-Avork system in Te Horo —working in the paddocks at night. The Chairman: That could have accounted for only a few hundreds. Cr. McLeavey: There is a lot of Avork to be done here yet, in the Tokomaru section, Avhere there has been practically no money spent yet. We ought to knoAv if it is going to be over-expend-ed, the same as Waikanae. We went before the ratepayers for a definite sum of money for a bitumen road throughout the county. Noav Ave are not going to do it. How Ave are going to Avriggle out it is very hard to say. The Chairman: We are not going to wriggle out. You Avill tell your ratepayers that you have done the best under the circumstances and have exceeded the estimate, and it is for them to say whether there has been Avaste or not.

Cr. McLeavey: I got quite a shock when I saAV the return of expenditure. The Chairman: Not a bigger one than 1 did.

Cr. McLeavey: To exceed the estimate bv £14,000 is a very grave disaster.

A CAUSE OF INSOMNIA.

! Or. Kilsby: The more I think'of this j the worse the situation appears" to me. , One gentleman asked me if I had any sleep. I said no, I did not. The Chairman: I will own up to a few black nights over this myself. Or. Kilsby: If you have thought over it as much as I have, I quite agree with you. The excessive expenditure in the southern riding appears to have grown larger each day. It seems strange that the Engineer should exceed an estimate "of £23,000 by onehalf; it appea?«?~as though there is some considerable blunder somewhere. We talk about Public Works engineers making blunders, but I think this is one just as bad. I think something should be done to try to get a better method of working than in the past. It appears that we must alter our method of construction in some way, to cheapen it, in order to get the amount of work done that is in the estimate. If we cannot get it done in the estimate, it is no use having estimates made. On the face of things to-day, there is something radically wrong somewhere. The crushing plant cost a fair amount of money. That was purchased on the advice of the Engineer. Had it been put in the Ohau or the Otaki river bed, it would probably have beCn of more advantage than ;#here it is to-day. So long as there

is a river at Ohau, there will be many thousands of yards of metal to come out of it. No one can deny that it is a far better class of metal than we are getting off of any of the surface ground. Cr. Cat-ley: The Highways Board would not allow it.

Cr. Kilsby: I am not talking about what they allowed or did not allow, ' but the quality of the metal. Cr. Catley has said that it would be best to over-estimate. I think that that is just as big a mistake as to under-es-timate. If we had estimated £40,000, it would have been overspent, just as it is to-day. With estimates we should try to get as near the price as possible, and if we work on right lines I don't see why„we could not do that. In reward to the future, I think we should try to get all the roads done. We will have £15,000 or £16,000- less to spend than we should have had. I should like to know if there are any means by which we could bring some influence to bear on the Highways Board to have them help us to adopt some other system of putting down our road. If we could get together, we might persuade them to adopt some cheaper method which would enable us to carry out the full quota of our work for which Mr. Anderson has taken out estimates. There is not enough unanimity between the Highways Board and the County Council at present to bring about such a- thing; but | we should try to work together more than in the past. In the meantime I we are in a fix to know what to do to complete the work ■ The Chairman: \es; I would like a cheque for about £IO,OOO. Cr. Kilsby: If we could get that from the Highways Board we would be set, but we cannot do that as things are at present. LIMITATION OF SUBSIDY.

The Chairman: We advocated that the Levin-Wellington road should receive a higher subsidy than pound for pound, but they were not inclined to declare it a Government road. If the user is to pay for the maintenance of roads, Ave may get an Act next session and they may take over the future maintenance. If they did that for a road constructed up to a standard, we could still make two ends meet. That is Avhat we want—a road that is constructed and paved up to a certain standard, and that the user should pay the whole of the maintenance. I am speaking of penetration roads, where maintenance is exit down to the lowest point. Cr. Kilsby: We have borne the heaviest expense up to the present time. The Chairman: I am quite prepared to make any representations, within reason, that you like to suggest, to the Highways Board; but they are bound by the Main Highways Act and amendments, and cannot get outside of that. However, I see by yesterday's paper that the Prime Minister and the Public Works Minister have been considering whether the user should pay. When a new Bill, comes before the House, it will be our time to see that we get full and proper protection, and to urge our representatives in Parliament to see that our position is properly protected. The Board " has refused, after repeated requests, that we should get a higher subsidy than pound for pound; but it has been proved by the extraordinary expenditure on a section of this road, that the request was more than justified. QUALITY OF THE ROAD. Cr. Kilsby asked if it would be advisable to have a penetration system of two inches or three inches instead of the four-inch/ system. The ■Chairman: You can seal your road, but when it comes to the user maintaining it, they will want a reasonable road. Cr. Kilsby: A surface coat of an inch will wear a long time if it has the foundation underneath it. The Chairman: I think they will consider two-inch penetration; but the amount saved I don't think is much. That is not our trouble down there, and this Avould not have stopped our overexpenditure to a great extent. Cr. Kilsby: Your over-expenditure was due to the filling and shoulder work.

Cr. Bryant: I don't think we ought to put down a cheaper road. It-is better to put down a good road, even if we don't finish it. "

Cr. Ryder said the first thing he would like to touch on was the fact that the Te Horo riding was the only one that was anywhere near completion.

The Chairman: Otaki is almost as near completion as Ave are. Cr. Ryder: I don't want to see Otaki in the same plight as Te Horo, and we should lay stress on this, that while other ridings do not show the comparison that Te Horo does, is it not that they are not advanced to the same position? How much more bitumen have you to buy for Te Horo?

The Engineer: It is all purchased and on the ground. Cr. Ryder: While I feel that No. 4 crusher is mostly a mistake, I feel that the mistake largely lies with the Engineer. I don't think with Cr. Kilsby that we have any river-bed where it could have been used to any better advantage than where it went. We have not a river-bed to compare even favourably with a spot where Ave put the crusher at Ohau; it cleaned up the paddocks, and avo could not supply the metal. At Hautere there Avas a more favourable spot, but the same thing applied. If the crusher Avas going to a rock face it Avould be all right; but tAvo smaller plants Avould hav r e been better for us and Avould have saved cartage, which is where most of tho maney goes. With regard to night work, I think there has been a mistake in having that; it has been very expensive.

The Chairman: That does not account for our over-expenditure. Cr. Ryder; It all helps. As regards the Engineer approaching tho highways people in connection with the shoulders, I think that we could do with a less amount of metal as a penetration course. It has been stressed over and

again that the piece at Te Horo and the little piece at the Settlement have stood up to all the wear and tear except at the edges. I cannot see why it is necessary to put four inches of metal on to a solid foundation. I think two inches would be equally as good. It is the very top coat, almost one-six-teenth of an inch, that keeps the rain out that is the foundation of the road, provided that the foundation underneath is correct and that you keep the water out of it. It is the wearing surface and the keeping out of water that makes a perfect road." When you first open up a papa road it is as solid and good a road as can be made; provided that the water is kept out, it is good for all time; but let the water get in, and you could not get a worse road. When Mr Anderson is interviewing the engineers it would be most advisable to go into that. We have got to make economies somewhere.

The Chairman: Don't let it be false economy. Cr. Ryder contended that the Settlement section was not properly prepared. POURING IN METAL. The Chairman: There is no piece ofroad on the West Coast that had more preparation. For 15 years we poured metal in there as hard as we could and as much as the finances of the Wirokino riding would allow us to. It cost twice as much as any other road in the riding. It gave the foundation, though, and that is why it was such a success. Cr. Ryder: 1 think the foundation Mr Anderson has given is second to none and that it will stand to us. Cr. Kilsby: I would like Mr Anderson to point out whether he thinks the bitumen, when hot, penetrates the full four inches.

The Engineer: Cr. Ryder saw it tested.

Cr. Ryder: Yes, it is right to the bottom." It was fully alive and in good order; it was as plastic as india-rub-ber. There was not a place where there were the slightest signs of deterioration in the bitumen. Cr. Whyte: When we met the ratepayers we decided to put down a permanent road for them. Regarding the Tokomaru section, Wirokino north boundary to Shannon, approximately one and a-half miles, £6600 was the first estimate brought out by Mr Anderson. Has he any idea what is the estimate now?

The Engineer: I have not gone into that. It is not taken out yet.

Cr. Whyte: The estimate was at the rate of £4400 a mile. Then we have the section, Shannon to Makerua railway station, three miles, practically a flat road. Mr Anderson told 'us he thought that it would come out without any alteration. Then there is the most expensive portion, Makerua to Tokomaru north boundary, 4£ miles, £5167.

Cr. Barber: That is subject to correction, as there was a deviation. Cr. Whyte: Is there any likelihood of that deviation?

The Chairman: We might get a major deviation. Cr. Whyte: Cr. Barber and I would be pleased to meet the Engineer any time and go over the Tokomaru Gorge and find out definitely what boulders they have there. MINOR AMENDMENTS. On the motion of Cr. Barber it was decided to amend clause 3 of the Works Committee's report to provide for the Engineer supplying a monthly return to the Works Committee, instead of to the Council.

Suggestions for the better functioning of the Works Committee Avere made by Cr. Barber and Cr. Jensen. The chairman expressed appreciation of the manner in which the Council had handled the report, and the apparent desire on the part of members to do what they could to improve matters. Nobody regretted the position more than he did, because he claimed to be the father of this roading scheme, and it Avas a severe disappointment to him that it had not panned out as he would have liked it to do. He did not think it Avas suggested that the Council had been a failure. There had been errors of judgment on their part, and on the part of the Engineer, Avho was not alone in the profession in having made such errors. The speaker had made the suggestion that the big crusher was not as suitable for the Council's work as they had at first thought. Mr Anderson Avas not altogether to blame | for that—he had had to seek advice in regard to it. Where he had failed, and the Council too, Avas through want of knoAA r ledge of Avhat the country would produce that was covered Avith boulders. It Avas not the ease that there was an unending supply of metal on it. That AA T as one of the reasons A\ r hy, Avith this crusher, they had failed. As far as -the highway Avas concerned, they were going to get a very good road. An engineer, unlike some men, Avhen he made mistakes Avas unable to cover them up. The speaker Avas quite ready to accept any blame attachable to himself; and there Avas blame in that the Council Avere not cognisant of the true position much earlier. He Avas not admitting that this knoAviedge Avould have altered the situation very much. He did not Avant it to go forth that the Council had been lax and that they had not given the attention to the payment of accounts and the expenditure, Avhich it Avas necessary for a local body to give. They had decided noAV to make the control even more rigid.

An addition to clause 5, moved by Cr. Jensen and seconded by Cr. Kilsby Avas adopted providing that in the ease of the Main Highways, prices for metal catting shall be submitted to the Works Committee.

Clause 7 Avas strengthened by the addition of a provision, moved by Cr. Jensen and seconded by Cr. Catley, to ensure that the time of starting and finishing /work by the employees shall be entered in the time-books.

The report as amended was adopted, and it was resolved, on the motion of Cr. Barber, seconded by Cr. Whyte, that the Works Committee consider, at its next meeting, the question of improving the system of its functioning. The meeting then concluded.