ACCIDENTS AND OFFENCES.

South Canterbury Times, Volume XV, Issue 2065, 5 November 1879, Page 2

ACCIDENTS AND OFFENCES.

THE LAMP EOPGEItY CASE. WAGI ST K UIA LIC XqUI It Y. Wc resume our report James G-oodman : 1 am clerk to Mr H. D. Thomas, Chistchurch. That is my signature to the deed ; tliafc is also the signature of Edward James. I saw James sign it on the 28th of March last. Manning was present, and I think Saunders, but lam not certain. A cheque was given to me for £599 before the deed was signed. To the best of my belief Saunders left immediate!}" the cheque was given, ’ and left us to complete the purchase. lam not certain that the deed was read to Saunders. I entered the cheque in Mr Thomas’s books as received, and I went to the ißank and got the cheque cashed or marked. I think I got it cashed. When I came back Manning said: “I have arranged with James to borrow £SOO of the money on security of the lease of the Pleasant Point .Hotel and furniture.” James said that was correct, and he would do it provided Mr Thomas approved of the security. I said I could not recommend the security, and if he were determined to lend, as we had been acting for Manning in some other transactions, I had x’athor he would see some one else. Manning and him had some talk over the matter, and Mr Thomas came in. and it was arranged if Mr Saunders would borrow the money he could have it on an agreement to mortgage the 100 acres. Mr Saunders was not present, and it was arranged that £SOO was to be left in Air Thomas’ hands to lend to Saunders, and I gave James a cheque tor the balance of the money, less Mr Thomas’ costs. The cheque I believe was for £B;], I gave the cheque to James, and he left with Manning, and I saw no more of him. To Air Joynt: the money was placed in Air Thomas’s hands to lend to Air Saunders if he would accept it, and if not to invest it. Air Saunders would not accept it for some time as he did not want the money, but ultimately Air Saunders agreed to take it and it was secured by agreement to mortgage, rural section 9079. I prepared a statutory declaration made by James, that he was the original purchaser. I know tho handwriting of Air H. D. Manning. The letter produced is in his handwriting. It is as follows : “ Christchurch, Alarch 21, 1879. “ Air A. G-. Saunders,

“ Hcsr Sir, —A friend of mine lias two sectioiis in Timaru district for sale, and I think cheap for cash. Ifow, if you are in a position to find about £-5C J cash I should be agreeable to share the profits if any after tire expenses and sale of same, u r hich sale I should suggest shall take place as soon as it is transferred to either } r ou or nryself, as my friend, Mr E. James, to whom the land belongs, cannot stop in town many days. “An early answer will oblige, “ Yours truly, “ H. D. Manning.” '£9 Mi’ Iveid: James was iii the Jay

before the deed was signed. J |.o came in with Ur Manning and gave instructions for the preparation ol'Mw convevance. There was a memorandum signed by James agreeing to sell 100 acres of land to Saunders for 060.). James was quite sober at the time. II e was told by mo that the conveyance would be ready in the morning, lie came alone in the morning and said ho bad emue to sign the conveyance. I read over the enuveyance to him and ho signed it, Mr Saunders and Mr Manning came in shortly afterwards.

To Mr Tosswl.il ; Mr Manning and James were present in my oillcc on the 2/tb when Saunders came, and the question was raised as to whether the purchase money should be 0j<):)or 0600. Saunders asked Manning whet Iter it was worth ,06 )0, and said “ I will give you ,060!) for it, provided you pay expenses.”

Andrew Piuwell ; I am DeputyRegistrar of Deeds, Christchurch, and ’produce a,n assignment of agreement H. D. Manning and S. Manning dated 30th Seolember, 1870, affecting rural section 0070. Also an oillcc copy of agreement between H. D. Manning and S. Manning, dated Oth April, 1870.

To Mr Reid: 1 am not quite positive Unit the original deed is not in the ollico in Christchurch.

Samuel Manning; I am a brewer in Christchurch. I produce a copy of an agreement. Mathew Henry Oram . I am a hotel keeper residing in Christchurch. 1 know H. D. Manning prisoner before the Court. I remember the lasi November races. A conversation took place at my hotel in Manning’s presence. Maiming spoke to me privately that evening, and said (hat he know whore the man was to be found. This was with reference to some land in Timaru, about which there was a conversation in the room. He said lie believed ho know whore the man was that owned it, and wanted some money to go and find the man. He told mo Hie town section was worth ,010;)!), but wc did not go into the value of the 100 acres. Ho asked me to go in with him but I did not do so. Some time after tins another conversation took place between Manning and myself in reference to dames. Air Manning told mo ho had been to Farudalc, and I asked him whether ho had found the man ho had been searching for. Ho said lie had seen the man up there, but it was a curious thing, it was a man of the same mime, and that ho was not aware that lie owned any laud in Timaru.

To Mi' lvcid : lam not aware when this conversation took place. It took place in the City Hotel, Christchurch. I do not recollect any other conversation which took place. . Joshua Page I have been' a' stablekeeper in Christchurch. I know .H. D. Manning. ,I own laud near the section in dispute. I had a conversation with 'Manning about the land about a year ago. lie fold mo lie thought that lie knew the man that owned it, and that he was somewhere in the iXehson Province. He said ho had heard a conversation in the City Hotel, which led him to believe that dames was in the .Nelson Province. We had a author interview, and it war; arranged that ho should go up, and I was to pay expenses For him. It was agreed that if it was the man, I was to had the money to purchase the land. Wo laid an agreement in writing on the subject, but I don’t know where it is now. I saw him on Ids return From seeing dames, about a week or ten days atterwards, and he told me it was not the man dames who owned the section, but that he was (juilc willing For a consideration to personate the man. I did not agree to it. Afterwards lie called on mo when I was ill, and I told him I would have nothing to do with it. J. paid him his expenses For going up. I think Pin. 1 sued him afterwards For that amount. I got the money. To Mir Joynt: After I heard the land had been purchased, I met Mr Manning again, and said "1 hear you have bought the land.” Ho said " les, lie Was the man alitor all.” I said “what an infernal .scoundrel you must be to throw me over. 11l sweat yon For my money.” "We parted, and had nothing to say on the subject since. To Mr. Held : I might have said “111 make it rather warm for you,” I was not aware of the terms on which it had been purchased. .Before Manning; went an agreement was drawn up For James to sign. I meant, by throwing mo over, that I thought he was binding mo in telling me that the man lie had seen Avas not the man, in order to make a better bargain, and Avhon I beard that the land had been sold, this Avas my conviction.

Henry Gibbs: I am a laborer residing in Timaru. I have been ID years in Timaru. I remember a man named Edward dames who had some property here. I believe he had 10i) acres at the back of the (own. and a quarter-acre section in the town. 1 knew him well. Hone of the throe prisoners is any way like dames of whom 1 am speaking. 1 never saw Manning and ,lames together. When dames was in Timaru lie used to stop at. the Timaru Hotel. Jleforc he went, to the West Coast, Maiming and Melton had the Timaru stables. That was in .1 SOS, some mouths before the (Ire. .1 believe dames went to the West Coast about the year 18t>d. just when the rush commenced. It was Mellon, I believe, who had the Timaru hotel about tha t time. To Mrdoynt; 1 was pretty intimate with James. I worked lor him and knew him ihreeor four .years in Timaru. Ho came back Ironi the West Coast to buy the property. He was away two years or longer, on the West Coast before Ire returned to buy the properly. Tito lire was in iStJS, and it was alter that lie came haek to hay (lie property. I am not positive of that. .1 know that, ho bought the property only by hearsay He remained two or three months in Timaru at the time. The prisoner is much lalj.er ami not so stout as l,l;e original Edward dames. To Mr ileid: dames left; for the West Coastal- the first of the rush. Iml I could not swear I hat it was -in J, Mi:! or IS(H. 1 cannot swear positively

whether .Fames had left or not when Manning and Melton had the stables. To Mr Tosswill; I know James on the West Coast. I was with him there. This was was 11 or 15 years ago.

Henry Durand: I am a gunsmith living in Timaru. I have been close on twenty years in Thiaru. I remember a man named Edward James, better known as Cornish hied. I am' quite positive that neither oi the prisoners are like HI ward James. I knew him here in 18(55 or 18(50. There was no other man of the same name here. He used to stay at Melton’s Hotel. I think Manning had the Timaru stables at that time, bull am not certain about it. I am under the impression that Waldcn sold the stables to Cornish iS r ed. To Mr Joynt: James was a light complexioiied man, light brown hair, and sandy whiskers, about Meet 8 or 9 inches, stout built, broad across the shoulders, and rather stooping. He was here several months. I was carrying on business in the town then. Ido not recollect that he ever returned to Timaru. He was a tolerably steady man, used to take care ol; his money, but occasinally got on the spree. He was laboring about the town then. I think I should know him if I saw him now. To Mr Held : I am not certain that Manning had the stables then. I was living about 150 yards away from the Timaru Hotel, and could not sec the persons who kept the stables, as I was about TOO yards away from them. I passed the stables every day, and to (lie best of my recollection Manning kept the stables then. To Mr TosswilH There is a great deal of difference between the Edward •James 1 knew It or 15 years ago and and the prisoner, Edward James. I swear positively the prisoner is not the Edward .lames that was here in ISGS and 18(5(5, known by the name of Cornish Aed. To Mr lie id: I have said to Manning when lie asked mo was ho not like tiro man, “ Yes, by having sandy whiskers only.” J ohn David Eogers: lam a butcher, living in Timaru. I hold possession of a 100-acre rural section, JMo. 9079. It is the section described in the deed produced. Manning and Saunders came to me on this section in April last. I did not know Saunders then, hut I knew Manning. I was introduced to Saundcr by Manning, but I did not catch the name ho called him. I was yarding up sheep at the time. Manning said, if you have got a minute to spare, I should like to talk to you. I said I would be with him in a minute, as soon as I had Uni shed what I was doing. Saunders ■ said he would like to speak to me and we walked away across the paddock, leaving Manning standing in the yard. When we got about 10U yards away Saunders said, “Docs this land belong to you P ” I said “ Ho.” He said Who does it belong to P ” I said " I believe it belongs to an absentee, but I have fenced it in some time ago.” Ho said,‘‘This is a nice piece of land; I should like very much to rout it.” Ho asked me whore the man had gone to. I told him I did not know. Ho then said, “ Is there any chance of llnding out where ho is P ” I said I could not say, as he had not been heard from for a great many years. He then asked mo if I would know the man if I saw him. I said “ Ho, he had left the dis trict before I came.” He said, “ Well, he is standing before you now.” I said, “ 1 am very glad to compliment you on having a very line piece of property.” 1 then asked him where he had got to for so many years. He said : “I have heard all about that.” He said thou he had not made up his mind as to what he would do with the laud, that he did not know- whether he would sell it or not, and that if he did not sell it lie would give me the iirsl chance to lease it. I said all right. He then enquired of mo the value of land all round the ‘place, and 1 told him that I paid JHS per acre for a section of land adjoining it. He said he was leaving in the morning, mid that he would like to make arrangements with me that night. Wo met by appointment that evening in the Grosveiior Hotel, We went into a private room and I said to him: “ 'What do you suggest about the land?” He said he bad seen bis agents in town, and they advised him not to sell then as the money market was very tight. He said ho would like to lease it to me. and give me the first offer of it. He asked what it would be worth per acre per annum. I told him I was paying 15s per acre for leasehold close by. He said he thought it was worth £1 per acre per annum. I then asked him what length of lease he would bo inclined to give. He said lie could not guarantee it longer than three months as he might make up his mind to sell it. He said I might have it for a few years, but that lie would like to be able to get rid of me at three months’ notice. • I said I should like to consult my solicitors before I entered into any agreement about it. He said it was as well io settle it that night, as ho wished to get. away Itrain the next morning. At that time a man named Jvirkwood came in and said, “ Hallo Saunders, arc you down, hero? I see you are in business,” and be withdrew again. I said, "Is your name Saunders?” Ho said, " Yes.” I said, “yon led me to believe your name was Edward James.” He said. " Oh, no, I never said my name was J ames.” lie said, “ I only said I was owner of the hind.” I said. “ Then you have misled me, and i’ll have nothing more to say to you.” He said, " I am the right fill owner, I have got

llic deed,” in id pulled the paper from his poeket. 1 said 1. did not wish to see the document, and did not want to have any t i'ans;ietion with Jam ; that he could use his remedy through the Court. I left. then. 11 e did not produce the conveyance before Kirkwood came in. Subsequently (o this conversation I had several offers in. reference to the land. In dune Mr Goodman came to soo mo in my shop, and said Saunders had come down from Christehuivh to try and settle about the laud. 1 had been .served with a wrii for CIIOO, by Saunders, previous to this, I went to see Saunders with G v’euuuui; iu the

Grorveuor Hotel, that’ evening. Saun dors said he wished to get the matter settled up, as it would save a lot of expense. I said I could not consider any oilers that he might make, and we made arrangement to meet in Messrs G-odby and Toss will’s office next morning. Wo met next morning. Mr G-ood-man and Mr Tosswill were present. Saunders stated that he wished to make us an oiler. I don’t think he made any oiler himself. I believe I offered to give up possession for £IOOO. They offered to allow me for all the improvements, which came to nearly £4OO. I declined this, and they said they would go to law. I said all right, aud left them. Mr Goodman said they had served another writ ou me. The second writ was served at the suit of James, and was for £I2OO, mean profits. To Mr Joynt; He never said he was not Sunders. Saunders said to me “The owner of the laud is standing in front of you.’ I don’t remember saying to Saunders in the Grosvenor Hotel. “ If yon had not told mo your name was James I would have given you up the land in the first instance.” I told him he led me to believe that his name was James. Saunders did contradict me and say “ I did not say that I was James.” I told you I was the owner of the land. Ido not remember replying, “ Yes, I was in a flurry at the time, That is what you did say.” I inquired for Edward James when I went to the hotel to see him. When Manning introduced him, I could not catch his name. I had got two or three descriptions of Edward James previously,and I understood him to be forty. Iliad been told Edward James was coming to Timaru on the day that I met Saunders on the hind.

This concluded the case for the prosecution.

James Goodman: On the 23rd of June last I called on last witness, and recollect a conversation between myself and Saunders as to what took place at their first meeting- Eodgers said to Saunders, “ If you had not represented yourself to he James I should have given possession at once.” Saunders replied, “ I never represented myself to have any other name.” Saunders said, “ Do you recollect Manning introducing me to you as Mr Saunders, on my asking you if you would know the owner of the land if you saw him, and my saying. ‘Well he stands before you now ; lam the owner of the laud.’ ” Eogers replied, “ I thing that is correct, old hoy, I was naturally Hurried; I hardly knew what I said.”

To Mr Tosswill: There was nobody except myself, Mr Saunders and Mr Eogers present. This completed the evidence, at 10. 45.

Mr Joynt then proceeded to address the Court, and argued that there was nothing to show that Saunders had any hand in the transaction, and that he was the victim of what was appearently a fraud.

Mr Eeid deprecated the course taken by his learned friend in trying to throw a slur upon the other prisoners so as to exonerate his own client from complicity in the affair. He argued that there was not sufficient evidence to warrant .sending the case before a jury. His Worship said that as far as James and Manning were concerned there was no question about it that their case was one which should go to a jury. He had given careful attention to the case of Saunders, and he felt that he had been so mixed up in what appeared to he a gigantic fraud, that for his own sake he thought it was better for him to go before a juiy. He would therefore commit the three prisoners for tri:il.

Mr Joynt asked HE Worship to commit the prisoner to the next sitting of the Supreme Court at Christchurch. The reason why the case should be sent to Christcoureh was that the majority of ihc witnesses were there, and that it was the place where the alleged offence was committed A great deal of intrest had been excited by the ease here, and it would bo fairer to the prisoners that they should be tried in Christchurch:

Mr Eeid made a similar application on behalf of his client.

J Lis 'Worship said lie could not allow the question of interest being excited by the case to weigh with him at all. Ho saw no reason "for departing from his usual course, and would commit the prisoners to the next sitting of the Supreme Court at Timaru. Ih reply to the usual charge, the prisoner, James made .the following statementl don’t wish to screen myself. X merely wish to state the truth. When Manning came to Tarndale to me it was on a Sunday, sometime in October, I think. He came on horseback. One of the men took charge of his horse. There were five men standing in the frot of the cottage. Hq spoke to some of tlic.se men, and one of the men told me ho enquired which was Hod James. I tvas sitting down washing some clothes, when he said, “ Hallo hied old man, how are you? Is’nt it time you knocked off this sort of AVOrk, a rich man like you P ” I looked up at him aud told him he had the adA r antago of me, I did not know him. He asked mo how long it was since- X was in Timaru. I told him it Avas the year of the Hokitika rush. He asked me if that Avas the first time I had been in Timaru. I told him that 1 had passed through with, a mob of sheep, aud Avcnt to Otago with them. He said, “ Oh, neA T er mind ; I’ll have a yarn with you just now, and I’ll tell you AA r by I ask these questions T Some little time after I had finished my my washing, and he asked me to come out on the side of a hank Avith him. I did so, and we sat down, He asked me could I read aud write. He took out his pocket-book, andasked mo to write my name, I Avrote my name in full, Edward James, Hethen asked me had I bought any laud in Timaru or On mam. 1 told him I had not ; i ncA’er owned land in cither place. He then told me there was a: man of the name of Hod James owned a piece of land in Timaru about 40 acres, adjoining property of 1 1 is own. It was in its -natural slate. I told him it had nothing to do with me. He asked qm about

several people in Timaru. I did not know any of them he had named. He looked up at me, and said, “ Ah, you fire not the man. lam very sorry for your sake.” I said I could not help that, the land does not, belong to mo. The same afternoon he asked me if I could go to Nelson, and I said “Ho.” He said, “ What, not for the £SOO P’ I said I could not go as' there would he sheep to dip. He wa« offering tins money for the use of my name. I walked away and woidd have nothing to do with him. He asked me did I know anyone who could tell me what had become of the original James. I told him there was a man at the Rain-

bow. He asked mo his name, and I told him. Next morning he went to the Rainbow and saw the man. When he came back next day he said the man knew nothing about the original James, ■ and asked me if I knew anybody else. X gave him the names of two other persons —George Moonlight and William Pogdon. He offered me £6OO for the 40 acres of land if I could get one of the men to sign an agreement to that effect. I told him I would have nothing to do with He asked me to meet him at the Waiho. I said X might meet him there in two or three months. I did not go with the intention of seing Manning when I left the station. I went away to get a young .■.. horse of'mine, and on the way I got drinking. After I got drinking I can t recollect anything. I was tipsy the whole time, and until I was put in the watchouse at Nelson, I was never in my proper senses. I have no more to say at present. [‘.ln the case of Alfred Godfrey Saunders bail was fixed at two ;in £250 each and himself in £SOO, In the case of H.D. Manning, bail was fixed at two sureties in £4O each, and himself in £4OO. The case concluded at a quarter to one this morning, up to which time the Court was crowded.