POLITICAL MEETING.

Poverty Bay Standard, Volume i, Issue 149, 5 June 1884, Page 2

POLITICAL MEETING.

818 GEORGE GBEY’S ADDRESS. THREE CHEERS FOR MR. GANNON. HOOTS FOB MB. REES. A large public meeting was held last night at McFarlane’s Hall, convened for the purpose of Sir George Grey delivering an address on the present political crisis. There were upwards of 900 persons present, ladies and gentlemen. His Worship the Mayor occupied the chair, and said .-—Ladies and gentlemen,—l feel exceedingly gratified, at the honor afforded me of presiding at this meeting to-night, for many reasons, more especially as I see that there are so many ladies who grace the meeting with their attendance. We are here .to receive the address of a gentleman, a soldier, and a statesman, whose name is borne in the highest respect throughout the . colony. Whatever our political feelings or bias may be, I feel assured that we shall not show any deficiency in evincing that respect by any action that would at all events bear the aspect of an improper proceeding. I feel assured that the Gisborne audience are quite prepared and able to show a good example to any of those in other parts of the colony. I would ask, as there are ladies present, and also for the gentleman speaking, that you will discontinue smoking. Sir George Grey (amidst great stamping, and continued applause)—Mr. Mayor, Ladies and Gentlemen, —I feel great difficulty in addressing a Gisborne audience from one cause, that is, I know that you are so far separated from the rest of the world, so cut off from want of a proper harbor being constructed for you, that upon many points of the politics of the present day you probably have not the same full information which is possessed by people in great centres of population, which are connected with other great centres of population by railways and constant communication. Therefore, I feel that a peculiarly difficult task is laid upon me, which, however, I shall do my utmost to perform to the best of my ability. I could-much have wished to-night, that I had the advantage of your late member standing by my side. Only those who have sat in Parliament in this country with him, can tell the continued interest which he took in the welfare of this place. No one but a person who has had constant communication with him in the House of Representatives can understand the efforts he made to introduce the Bill to procure a harbor for you in which he failed from a point of order, regarding which I think the Speaker ruled under a mistaken notion, thaSruling preventing the Bill from being introduced, which, if it had been introduced, would. I feel certain ’ere this have been the means of having the harbor of this place very far forward indeed in its construction. (Applause). However, he has left the country for a time, and I have not the advantage of his presence, but I must do my best without him to carry out the views which I think will satisfy you all. I shall speak on points, regarding which you will take a lively interest in.

DISTRIBUTION OF THE LAND. First of all let us look at that great question which is agitating the whole world at present, that is the question of the distribution of the land amongst the inhabitants of the country. That is the one great question which now occupies almost all minds. First, I will speak on that point with reference to this locality, and afterwards I will take a general view of the subject in regard to all New Zealand. The East Coast of New Zealand was first occupied in this manner—missionaries came here and labored for many years and they brought the people to a knowledge of Christianity, and performed their duties in the most exemplary manner. I trace all the good which lias made its appearance upon the East Coast to the influence which those gentlemen won in the early days of the colony, and which they followed out. When I arrived here as Governor I found the East Coast in this state, that the Natives were anxious to have a European population with them, and were prepared to part with their lands to the Government upon very reasonable terms. Through this there appeared a great hope of being able to purchase tracts of territory which would enable a large European population to settle in the country. The statesmen of Great Britain helped to carry this out —and this is a great, point for you to consider, because the people are taxed to a considerable amount to furnish the sums of money by which the lands of the Natives were to be purchased in this country. Now many of you in your youth paid portions of the taxes, and not only you, but your parents, and you will see from this case a very important principle was established, and tiiat is that every British subject had an equal right in the lands of New Zealand. There was to be no distinction of rank, no distinction of class. Every single individual at that time had an equal right in all lands that the Crown possessed within the limits of New Zealand. In order to acquire lands fcr the people of New Zealand I came up this Coast furnished with money supplied by Great Britain by the taxation of the people of that country. I found the Natives willing to part with their lands. I had made the acquaintance of many of the principal chiefs who had visited me at Auckland and Wellington, and had been entertained by me, and who had established the most friendly relations with us. Well, starting from Wellington I came up the East Coast. The first thing that 1 was able to do was to purchase the entire Wairarapa district, then going on in this direction, I met one evening an old chief named Wellington. I found that he was prepared to dispose of a very large tract of land between Wairarapa and Hawke’s Bay, and I stopped on the journey and conversed with him. He said he heard that large purchases were to be made and Europeans were to be settled on the land, and asked why was he to be passed over as he was a large owner of land. I was therefore compelled to stay longer and complete the purchase of his tract of the country. At Hawke’s Bay I found a mission station and one single European, who kept a small store, and I then purchased the Hawke’s Bay district. Britain was then unable to contribute any further funds for the purchase of more land, and I had to send to Wellington to procure the remaining amount to complete the purchase of the Hawke’s Bay district from another source. I could not come as far as Poverty Bay. The Natives were very anxious that I should, but I was obliged to leave it till another opportunity offered. I had walked from Wellington to Hawke’s Bay, and was compelled to walk from that place to Auckland in order to get there on a particular day, so that I could not come here. Now the first opportunity that had offered of establishing people upon what I thought a good footing presented itself when these tracts of land were acquired, and the first experiment was made in the Wairarapa Valley. There a number cf most intelligent settlers, men really of more than ordinary ability, aided me in an attempt to establish small farm settlements, and in that valley we founded the towns of Featherston, Greytown, Carterton, and Masterton, all in existence at the present day, and a population was there established which has always existed in comfort and contentment. They have been there thirty years, and I ask has that experiment of small farming been successful ? (Applause.) After this I was compelled to go Home from family circumstances. In my absence all the plans that I had formed in reference to these small farms, settlements were brought to a conclusion, and a new system was established in its place. Now lot us reflect what has taken place since. Large tracts of land have passed into the hands of single individuals to an extent unknown in any other country. And I tell you that 14,000,000 acres of the best land in New Zealand have been granted away. Out of this, 700,000 acres, including what you have in Poverty Bay, have passed into the hands of 250 individuals. Now as I say 14,000,000 acres have passed away altogether, I don’t know that I need give you details of the other portions of it, but 250 people hold half of it, that is with regard to the land purchased from the Crown. Now I am very sorry to say it, but duty compels me to speak out, and to this, that the greater part of this 700,000 acres has not been fairly acquired as an undue advantage was given to a few individuals by the Government, and the public at large were greatly injured. (Applause.)

GRID-IRONING. You have all heard of Grid-ironing. The meaning of that is this, that a man was entitled under the land regulations of the Middle Island, or of the whole province of Canterbury, to walk out in that country and coming to any spot of land ho liked that was unsold, he was able to buy it by returning to the said office, stating the piece of land he required on a map, and by agreeing to pay £2 an acre for it. That was a great privilege which was acquired, and in this way. When Great Britain determined to give New Zealand a Representative Constitution — the most munificent gift that was ever given to us—every man woman and child had a equal right to a share in the Waste Lands of the Crown, or in the money realised from them. It was given as a heritage to the people of New Zealand, and was your right. That right was exercised in the Province of Canterbury in this manner. Everyone, cither male or female, could go forth and choose what land they liked, and paying down £2 an acre for it, could become its possessor. But that did not satisfy the grasping men of the earth. It did not do that all should have equal rights; that laborers should at once escape to a state of freedom. Well, what was done ? Laws and regulations were made to the effect that no person was to take more than 20 acres of land. That was fair enough. But then what was done by the Government of the day—the Provincial Government ? They said, we shall cut the land up in this way : There shall be a road and a row of sections, say, to the south; then there shall be a row of sections in the same direction and another road, so the two lots of sections lay between two roads. Then, they said they would lay out the sections in this manner: First they formed a section 20 acres, next to that a section of 19 acres, and then another section of 20 acres, and also another section of 19 acres, and so on; and at the other side at the bottom of the south of the first line, opposite the 20 acre section, they put a 19 acre section; then a 20 acre section opposite the 19 acre section, and so on. Thus the friends of the Government could buy all the 20 acre sections, and would only have to pay about half of what they ought to. For instance, a poor man who had a little money to buy a farm, went out to get a section, and found one he liked—a twenty-acre section. He came back to the Land Office and asked, for the maps. The Clerk showed him them, and he said very respectfully, not knowing how he was to be wronged, “ I have set my heart upon that section which has not been purchased,” and he took a section lying between two t ventyacre sections. The clerk replied, “I am very sorry you cannot have that, it is not twenty acres of land.” The man said, “ Add something more to it then.” The clerk replied, “ I cannot add anything because it is surrounded by twenty-acre sections.” The man went away to search for another. After some time he came back, having chosen six or seven sections, and when he showed them to the clerk, he was again informed that he could not have them, as they were not twenty acres. He then went away never knowing that he had been wronged and deprived of his right by the Government of the country. I ask you all to bear this in your recollection, as you will all agree with me that it is a most reprehensible and disgraceful thing that men in office should wrong their fellow countrymen. Tais practice remained undisturbed for some twenty years. At first when I entered office it never entered into my mind, but after a time remarks reached me as to what had taken place, and then I found out really what had been done. This was only one way in which properties were got possession of wrongfully. The system of pre-emptive right was more unfair. NATIVE LANDS. I now come to the Native lands question. When we occupied the country, Great Britain said, acting for her subjects generally. “ We must make an arrangement with the Native race. We will secure them all their lands, instead of trying to take them, as was the case in Australia.” But no European race would submit to this, that they should come to New Zealand to be taxed to a great extent to make roads, bridges, railways, and construct public works, and thereby give an immense value to the Native properties, and then become nothing but tenants of the people to whose property, by their expenditure they had given an enormous value. Therefore Great Britain said, “ We must enter into an agreement with the Natives, that the Crown shall have the right of Preemption.” That is, that the Government shall have the first right of purchasing, not for itself only, but for the whole population, Native and European, so that the whole population who are taxed for railroads, roads and bridges, shall have the right to acquire any Native land which might come into the market for sale, and the Natives would have the right of repurchasing if they pleased. That right was given to you all, and it was of enormous value to you and your children to possess. The Americans would not submit to the treatment you have received. The same Legislature that allowed what I have told you to be done in the province of Canterbury, passed a law by which they gave up tiie Crown’s right of Pre-emption, and in that they acted most unwisely, and they cannot in justice retrace the step. In that law they made a wise provision, that any man shall not dare to purchase land from the Natives until that land has gone through the Native Land’s Court, and the rights of the Natives have been fully ascertained, and until everyone knows that that land is open for purchase. If that law had been observed some safety would have been given to you, but what was done by the powerful men of the country, by those whom no law seems to restrain. Why, they did this, and are still doing it, and deserve to be punished for so doing. (Applause). If you knew what you owed to your fellow men you would not allow your place to be plundered in the way they have plundered it. They went to the Natives and made agreement for leases before the ownership had been ascertained and they got possession of the land in some way or other, they dealt for the land in the manner that the law forbid, and in that way trey were enabled to enter into possession of it to the injury of every honest man who would not have recourse to similar means. Therefore you will see that in this way you have lost an immense property through your own folly and apathy, and have made those rich w.io were careless as to what measures they took to obtain wealth, and those children who are now born into the world, who ought to come in as possessors of property have been virtually robbed of what was their just inheritance, given to them by a great nation. —(Applause.) PUBLIC WORKS. Now I must carry you one degree further in this subject to show you the position you have got into. These men having got possession of these lands what has taken place ? A system of public works has been established. Now the construction of public works was a good system. I began it at the Cape of Good Hope. It was a new discovery in colonial politics. It was commenced at the Cape, and carried on for fifteen years before it was introduced into this country, and it has been copied from this country by other places. The maxim I laid down was that when the people came to the now country, after a time they should have established estates and properties and farms; they have established something which is visible, and which every one can approve of; but they have done something else, they have established an invisible thing, that is Public Credit, and they can raise sums of money at any time which they may require. I put this before the people of the Cape. It was taken up eagerly, railroads were made upon a different system, and -Public Works were executed in almost every part of the Cape colony. It was ultimately adopted here; but you adopted a different plan from those at the Capo. The plan I took was this. We surveyed a line of railway that we required ; we had an estimate made of the cost, and called for tenders throughout the world, both from private individuals and companies, and we guaranteed them six per cent., and the railways made without any cost to the country. All that we had to do was to see that the railway paid the six per cent., and it did that. We rated to pay the difference, and no charge fell on the community. In that way we had no difficulty in making railways, and you would have none here if you were allowed to do as we did there. Here, the Government want to go on this plan, that they make the railways themselves. Now lot me trace it for you. What was the result of those gentlemen who acquired great properties ? Supposing a man ~

had a great swamp, which was the favorite thing to get for a small sum of money. Supposing a number of labourer* were put to work to make a railway through it, to make it so as to bear the weight, great drains were to be made at an enormous cost, the swamp was drained and an immense value given to the land, and men were kept at work in mud and slush, and were paid what was called high wages. Who paid the men the wages ? It will astonish you when I say that the men paid themselves their wages. Il is an actual fact as I will show you. These railways gave an immense value to that property. Supposing 7s. Gd. an acre was given for it, I will guarantee that that was the outside. Then first of all a sum of money was paid the individual to let the railway come through his swamp. Through the railway the swam/) went. (Great laughter.) In my earnestness I have misplaced my words—through the swamp the railway went, and the land became worth £8 or £lO an acre. Whom did that £8 or £lO belong to ? It was what was called the Unearned Increment. It belonged to the man at Home, and whilst he did nothing at all, value was given to his properly, and who has to pay it ? Supposing he paid fairly for the land, say lie gave £2 an acre for it, and you make it worth £lO or £l2, the argument is the same, and the laborers pay themselves. Now to do all this we have incurred a debt of £30,000,000, I speak in round numbers, and the interest of that debt is £1,500,000 a year, and there are 500,000 people, men, women and children to pay it. Every soul has to pay in this Colony £3 a head a year, for the value given to properties acquired in the manner I tell you of. The laboring man has to pay it, and so do his children, therefore, am I not right in saying that the men paid themselves ? (Applause.) THE UNEARNED INCREMENT. Now, that is called the “ unearned increment.” I will put a picture before you. Fancy a father with a new-born child brought to him, say fifteen years ago or twenty years ago. If he took that child in his arms he could look at it and know that it had been born the possessor of property of great value, that is of the lands which you have lost. Well, now let him take a child in his arms. He will take it and say, “ Your birthright has gone from you, and you have to pay £3 a year as long as you live. (Laughter). You have to do that to give a value to the property of people who have wronged and robbed you. I ask any of you ought these things to be. I am sure every heart in the rooip will say no, but that is the unearned increment. LAND QUESTION AGAIN, AND COLORED LABOR. Coming back to the question of the lands, I ask you, how are your children to get land in future years ? Those who Great Britain said shall be the proprietors of the soil of New Zealand, how are they to get back their rights ? Only by rousing themselves. If the great lords at home are allowed their way, will they say, we will determine who shall live upon our lands, as they are. our own to do what we like with. They would drive the people off, as the Highlanders were driven out of Scotland; and as the Irish have been driven out; as many as you have been driven out of England from poverty, in the hope of getting a better living here. I say that now a great crisis has come. A crisis has come in the country which everybody feels; which has not touched you here yet, but which is striking great towns, and other parts of the country ; but which, from the remoteness of your position, and the fertility of your soil, has not yet reached you ; but it will come upon you, and will you not rouse yourselves with the rest of the inhabitants of New Zealand, and say, “ Now the time has come when our voices will be heard, and we will take care that better laws and regulations will be laid down for the future.” That is the real question for us to consider. Land is the payment of everything upon earth, and no man can live without it. Where would he get his food, his clothing, or his home, if there was no land ? I say that the present state of civilization throughout the world in that respect is in ray belief worse than any civilization of which we have record. In London poor people suffer terribly having no homes, and sometimes no clothing, who have to sleep in open places, crouching down to keep the vital parts of their bodies warm. That is the case in the greatest city in the world, and I will show you from the evidence of a man hostile to our views that this is already creeping into existence in New Zealand. The best agricultural lands here are meted out, as I say, in enormous properties, the very best of it; and there are more great estates, I believe, in New Zealand at the present time, than there are in England, Ireland and Scotland put together. Well, then what must be your future. You have peculiar things to consider in reference to your position. Look at the position of New Zealand and the position of Great Britain. The latter is surrounded by a European population, and could be reinforced by Europeans from every quarter. But, what is your position. To the south of New Zealand you have nothing but an extensive ocean and icebergs. To the north you have millions, hundreds of millions of colored people all anxious to press down to this part of the world. Australia must have a colored population, because that country is highly fertile, and its produce, such as sugar, coffee, &c., must be cultivated by colored labor. An effort will be made that a colored population will be forced into your country, and your danger in that respect is very great. If you have no land how can you prevent it ? If a great proprietor or a large number of proprietors choose to say, “ We will have cheap labor, we have these large tracts of land and cannot cultivate them unless we have cheap labor, and we will have cheap labor.” Your position will then be very difficult. They will tell you, it is all very well, a man and his family can cultivate and do well on his own farm, but, that is not what they want. What they want is large estates and cheap labor. That is one party. Now I belong to another party, and I say what we want is small estates, and families cultivating their own properties. (Applause). That is the difference between the parties, and unless you move yourselves and take care, a terrible destiny awaits you in the future. TAXATION. The next point I come to is taxation. We have considered the land question and taxation is mixed up with it, and involves all your interest. It does not only concern the mechanic or the laborer, but every class of the community alike. Supposing the country about Gisborne is almost entirely occupied by great runs, what will be the result? Great men will live in England with enormous fortunes, and they do so now, drawing immense revenues from that land, and there will be so many shepherds and so many people employed during shearing time, and what will be the business of the people in the towns who supply rations to these shepherds. They will supply the wants of a few great estates of that kind, which will have the produce of a great and flourishing country here. If the country was filled with happy homes there would be many opulent merchants, wealthy storekeepers, and learned physicians. That would be the case, and you would have a prosperous community, with abundance of trade, a thriving commerce, a harbor filled with ships from every part of the world and a population supporting itself in comfort, and poverty a thing almost unknown. Look at the question of taxation in reference to the land, which v.c have left behind us. The Property Tax is a tax upon our own property, it is an Income Tax of our own. We have that tax to help us to carry on the Government of the country. Have you got any railroads here ? What lias become of all the money you have paid in taxes ? What has been done with it ? Is it reasonable that every man in Gisborne should be taxed to enable a gentleman to spend many thousands a year in London ? That is all it really is. To me it seems the most reprehensible thing I ever heard of. If they keep these properties, let it be ascertained what the owner of the property gave for it, what would be a fair interest upon the money he invested in it, and what lie has spent in his own improvements, and add this together with what belongs to him, then take the value of tlio property as it stands, deduct the one from the other, and you will find the difference belongs to us, and we have a right to tax them with the Land Tax, and to relievo our shoulders from the unjust burden which they now bear. Don’t think this it a t iflingthin . Take the case of a married man, say lie has got four children, six in all to keep. Why is that married man here in Gisborne to pay £lB a year to make other men rich ? What sense or reason is there in it ? To me it is a

most incomprehensible thing. We have ft right to tax that Unearned Increment. (Voice: Property Tax.) Well, let u. look #t the Pronerty Tax again. A cargo ol goods comes here, it is landed, and as soon as it gets out of the bonded warehouse, the merchant pays the Customs duties. Very well; now does the merchant who owns the goods, or does he not, add Customs’ duties to the price of the goods. By-and-byo these goods lay in the merchant s store, and a person comes to levy the Property Tax, and the merchant pays it on those goods in his store. Now I ask you, does he add to the price of his goods or not { (Laughter.) Very well, a retail dealer comes and buys from the merchants, and gets these goods into his shop, and they are valued there, and he has to pay another Pr°P cr Jy Tax on them, and I ask you, does he add that to the cost of his goods, or does he not ? (Laughter.) If he did not do it he could not carry on his business, and I put it to you> who are consumers, that when you come to buy these goods do you pay that Property Taxor do you not. Therefore, I object to the Property Tax in that way. Now with regard to the Land Tax. All you who are small farmers be good enough to listen to me and give me your voices if lam right. I will take the case of a squatter. He has his run» and we have given a value to that run in various ways. I will digress a little from the subject. If a family of children are born to you, and. you bring them up at a great cost, and you want certain land owned by a squatter, you would have to pay his price for that land, and I ask you, who has given the value to the land of the squatter ? Why, the man who toiled to bring up those children. The squatter need not do anything; he can sit down in his chair and have his runs improved for him; he lets them augment in value and then sells them at an immense price. But the small farmer goes out and toils and comes back at night, having made about £2 worth or so of improvements during the day, and is worth ■ so much more; but he has to pay an extra property tax on those improvements he has , made during that day. Is it right that that man should be treated that way ? I say it is a tax to ruin the country, to reduce the mass s of the people to a state of servitude to the wealthy men, and if they have any courage i they will rise as one man and insist on their • rights. (Great applause.)

CHEAP LABOR AGAIN. I will read a squatter’s opinion of you:— “ Immigrants of all nationalities arrive here without any impediment, why should you exclude the Chinese—the people of a country which two thousand years or more ago was the most civilized in the world ? The Chinese are up to the present time to a child educated. What can we say of our own country ? Not two-thirds of the people are educated, and they are living in barbarity in the wilds of Ireland, England, and Scotland. We talk sir, of cleanliness. Is there a dirtier breed on the face of the earth than Scotchman and Irishmen and the people of other barbarous nations—people who never wash themselves from one year’s end to the other. If the Chinese are near a river or the sea they bathe themselves. Look at the purlieus of your town here. I will be bound to say that you can go to places jn Wellington where you would be ashamed of the poverty, misery, and wretchedness to be seen there. You go to a chinaman a week or ten days after arrival and you will find him just as much to be respected as men of our own country-” That is the opinion of a squatter in the Middle Island, who requires cheap labor. He bears testimony to the disgraceful state of our towns which is true enough. LAND TAX. I say this, I have seen a great town recently where some 300 acres of land were held by a great man, a great friend of the squatters, it was kept for years touching the town, only a street dividing it from the town, and it was tied up for many years during which the rates and taxes were exceedingly small. It was not opened a a a town for people to go and live on it. No, they were crowded out, and there was misery in every street. The price of the land was then raised, and every individual was taxed as one man to render the 300 acres more valuable. That land has only been recently opened and has been the cause of much suffering to the people of the town in that neighbourhood. THE LEGISLATURE. I will read you another squatters opinion of you “ I know all that has been said in favour of the Chinese. They are in my opinion a much better educated people than the lowest class of our community. I toink it is rather pusilanimous. Now I find also that the Chinese increase the value of property in this country, I have myself been offered £lO an acre for land which I could not let to a European, who is quite as cabable if he had the energy of making it pay, as a Chinaman. Why does he not do so. If he does not it is necessary some steps should be brought to bear on him to cause him to do so. I should like to see wages maintained at a high price, but at the same time I should like to see that the labor employed would at all events reimburse the employer. I know that European labor has been employed without any adequate return. I do not believe that with these fictitious wages in any farming district—wages created by unusual circumstances, such as a goldfield, farming can be carried on profitably. Farming will no doubt go on upon a small scale where the proprietor has labor within his own family, but to farm profitably on a large scale with high wages ruling, is I think, impossible. In know cases in which twice the amount, £lO per acre, that I referred to—£2o per acre could be given if the labor could be got more cheaply.” That is another squatter’s opinion. I say we don’t want squatters with large properties in which a man can only farm by hired labor, we want small farms. The best part of the Legislature is made up of squatters, and it is wrong that we should be compelled to pay two hundred guineas a year to those Legislators. Fancy you see them sitting in their easy chairs of crimson leather made by borrowed money of which you are paying the interest. (Applause). They are all squatters and want cheap labor if they can get it. PLURAL VOTING. You will see from what I have said that all require to be placed on an equality with the other places of the Colony. You here only have one vote for the representation, and you are blind and don’t know what is going on outside. There is a system of plural voting. For example, the last Representation Act was made very craftily. They added to the number of members greatly, and cut the country up into very small constituencies, and gave a Representative for each constituency. Every man had three or four votes, as each city has three or four Representatives. Then they allowed a wealthy person the right to buy votes in ;every constituency where he had land. They can be bought for £l5 or £25 in various other ways. So that in a place where there are four constituencies and perhaps two or three hundred people who have plural votes, they go and vote in one constituency for one man, and then rush away to another to do the same, and so on. So they have four votes to the one of other people. I say that one man ought not to have more than one vote. We are all men who have the same interest in the country, and we all pay the same taxes—though the usual rule is that the poor man pays more than the rich. 1 n the country, generally, just let us look at the state of things in regard to this matter. A county is divided into nine ridings, and in each riding a wealthy man may have five votes. There are cases where one single man may have forty-five votes. The small farmer has one vote. What is the consequence? A County Council is formed, and you wish to elect a chairman or a councillor for it. Now, what chance has one vote against forty-five. I think this also should be put down, as it is unfair. THE MINISTRY. What do tlio Ministry say with regard to freehold tenure ? They say it is a bad thing and that, therefore, they will not allow any more lands to be sold, or any more runs. I ask you this, What are they going to do with all the freehold properties in existence? What position will those be in who are only allowed now to acquire the lands that have been left ? They can only get them as tenants of the Crown and the owners of these immense estates arc allowed to keep th*'ir freehold. Is that right ? All you people who only now get small farms will be tenants of the Crown, whilst those great men who have freeholds will keep them. In justice the Ministry ought to say this,

“ We will make some regulation by which all property shall be held upon one common tenure.” And I have no objection to that, I 1 supposed to be one of the leaders in the question of the nationalization of the land, and so 1 am ft? far as it can be carried out. I don’t believe that you can at the present time do that which the ministry propose. If you put on a land tax in the manner I speak of, you will make the land pay the principal taxation of the country. The Government proposed to allow the runs to be freehold in the future. I say break the runs up into small farms that will carry about 300 sheep, which is sufficient for any man, and will be the means of establishing many happy homes and families. The Ministry should not inteifere with freehold at all. With regard to dealings with Native lands they say that the Maories are to cease dealing with these lands to any one else but the Government. During the last five years the friends of the Government have been getting immense blocks of land from the Natives, whilst the public have not been permitted to compete with them. The Government should not have allowed the lands to be sold by the Natives unless by public auction. This is the Pre-emptive Right, which they want to again assume, CIVILZATION. A great change is now coming over this world in civilzation, which is in a very bad state at present. Why do the Germans flock out here, and to the United States in great numbers ? Why is Ireland almost emptied ? Why has Scotland been almost depopulated ? Why is this misery in all the large towns in England ? Why, because the state of civilzation is actually bad, and everybody knows that a change is coming over the world. Populations are rising, I don’t mean in revolution, but a more dangerous rising than that in one way. They are rising in sense and understanding, and are determined that a change shall come over the world, and that the masses shall hold a different position than they have done previously. Look at the world in this way. Civilization after civilization has gone. Look back at the civilization of the Egyptians, of the Assryians, rof the Babylonians, of the Grecians, and of the Romans, each of these civilizations have died out, and the civilization of the European nations of the middle ages is also dying out. A great change is coming on. Let us look at the world as a mighty river flowing down from sources we know nothing about. On the banks of the river great nations have been founded, each with their civilization, and has a human race. As the river flowed on, so one civilization after another disappeared, and a new civilization has been founded in some other part of the earth. So that one civilization becomes defunct and another springs up down the river. I will represent the nation by a band of their statesmen in a boat pulling down the river, and are all going out to some great ocean—it may be an ocean of tranquility. As they pull down they always look to the past to determine what they are to do. They continue on until they come to a barbarous place, where natives are paddling in canoes, and they get in these canoes and are carried back to a state of barbarity. Men should not look to the past to work on, they should look to the present. What constitutes great men is that which they do suited to the time they live in. Like William Tell and John Knox, they did not do what was done before, they did what was best suited to the time, and so it is with all great men. SIR JULIUS VOGEL. Regarding Sir Julius Vogel, he has come out here in the interest of the Eucla Company and Pastoral Association, which is to have 16,566,640 acres of land here, for about ten years, with certain poowers over it. A map of the Association was put into my hands, in which I found this written: — “ Earl Carnarvon, 64,000 acres; Sir R. W. Herbert, 64,000 acres ; Sir A. Stephany 64,000 acres; Sir W. McKinnon, 64,000 acres; Sir Julius Vogel, 155,000 acres; Colonel Wade, 64,000 acres. (Laughter.) I find that these 64,000 acres of land are to carry 24,000 sheep each. lam glad to find that the people of Gisborne did not undertake to return the great Australian squatter, A Sir Julius Vogel, who has been interested in 16,000 acres of land here for the last ten years. This brought the speech to a close. Mr. Bailey moved—“ That this meeting expresses its entire confidence in Sir George Grey as being the only true leader of the Liberal Partv in New Zealand.” Seconded by Mr. Joe. Griffin, and carried unanimously. A vote of thanks to the chair was given. At the close of the meeting three cheers were given for Sir George Grey, three for Mr. Gannon, and three hoots for Mr. Rees.