Deputation to the Hon. Mr. Rolleston.

Poverty Bay Standard, Volume X, Issue 1042, 28 February 1882, Page 2

Deputation to the Hon. Mr. Rolleston.

A deputation consisting of members of the Cook County and Borough Councils, waited yesterday morning about 10.30 o’clock, upon the Hon. Mr. Rolleston, Minister of Lands. The following gentlemen Comprised the deputation : —Cook County Council : Mr J, IV. Johnson (Chairman), Messrs Chambers, Clarke, Common, Ferris, Gannon, Weston and Westrup; Borough Council: Mr C. D. Bennett (Mayor), Messrs E. K. Brown, Townley, and Tutehen. The deputation Was introduced by Mr J. W. Johnson. Mr Johnson: There are a few things the deputation wishes to speak to you about, Mr Rolleston, if you can give your attention to the subjects. Hon. Mr. Rolleston; Certainly

Mr. J. W. Johnson: One matter wetlcsircd to bring under your noticeie the necessity of a law for rating Crown and Native lands. Such a measure would materially affect this district, and indeed is very necessary. This district, if such a law were passed would have its local revenue augmented £9OO or £lOOO per annum. Hon. Mr. Rolleston: I have had no discussion with my colleagues on the subject. I have no reason to suppose that a Bill to deal with the subject will not be brought forward next session. Mr J. W. Johnson: The Natives pay no rates, and they use the public roads as much as the Europeans. Hon. Mr. Rolleston : Of course I am speaking generally when I say the Government will deal with the ques- k tion. Whether or not they will do * so in the same manner as they did last year, you cannot expect me to say. Mr. J. W. Johnson: Another question the deputation desire to bring before you is the necessity of pushing on the sales of the Crown lauds in the district. The County Council wish tc impress the necessity of such being done as early as possible, There are about 600,000 or 700,000 acres of Government land in the district, al** more or less capable of settlement. Hon. Mr. Rolleston : Yes ; I shall be very glad to give the County Council and gentlemen present every information I can on this subject. The Government and tho Survey department have been giving n good deal of attention to this matter. In Parliament the Government hate shewn that they fully recognise the importance ol this subject, namely, the opening of the lands. When you ask me about hurrying on the settlement of the country that is a result that can onH come with the opening up of the country by means of roads and the proper development of the lands and the increase of population. I don't know whether you purpose to deal with the main roads as part of those to be made. I shall be Very glad to give you any information upon the opening up of the main roads. I may say genera l ly that the policy of the Government is such that it feels convinced that it is useless to sell the public estate unless people are able to get on the land. Tho opening up of the country by means of roads is certainly precedent to the selling of the lands. If you sell land in largo blocks in the district before proper communication is established, the result will bo that you will only be able to do at such a price as to ensure them going into the hands of large holders. By such means the genuine settlement of the country would not be developed. The opening of the country by roads could not be done in a day. There is the opening of the road to the Wairoa, also the road to Waiapu, and the road from above Ormond to Opotiki—all important works the Government are determined to go on with. These roads will open up the interior of ' the country, and will give access to many blocks purchased by the Government. The blocks inland from the coast would be also rendered accessible by roads, that is to say the lands bc-

' tween I’ologa Bay and Waiapu in the . interior. These roads I have men- • tioned are the main roads required to ' open up the country in addition to tho road that is now being made to tho ' Wairnala block. I can assure you that I desire to get on with tho settlement of the country, and I think that the general action of the Government shows that principle to be one of the main features of its policy. Mr. J. W. Johnson: While you are mentioning the main roads may we ask you if all the moneys intended to construct these roads will be spent as soon as possible in the district, on tho roads to Wairoa, Waiapu and Opotiki. Certain sums were voted to be spent upon these roads. Are the Government determined to push on with the roads. Hon. Mr. Rolleston : They will push on these roads as fast as possible—as fast as they can be reasonably constructed. I don’t exactly see tho bearing of your question. Mr. J. W. Johnson: What we are afraid of is that the votes already passed by Parliament might lapse. Hon. Mr Rolleston: I can make your mind easy on that. The Government have certain works that are to be pushed on, although they may extoad over a considerable time. There will be no chance of the vote lapsing. Mr J. W. Johnson : Can vou give us hope of any further sums being put on the Estimates ? Hon, Mr Rolleston: For which particular roads ? Mr J. W. Johnson : For the threo roads—the road to Opotiki, the road to Waiapu, and the one tn Wairoa. Hon. Mr Rolleston: Wo have suf» ficient money to carry them on for tho present, and for some time to come. Mr J. W. Johnson : Another subject I should like to speak to you about is the importance of some Act being passed legislating for lhe Settlement of the Native Lands. This is a very important matter. At the present time there is a very great deal of difficulty in getting deeds passed by the Trust Commissioner. Hon. Mr Rolleston : In what way ? Mr J. W. Johnson : In one respect you cannot get the Commissioner's certificate until all the parties have signed. Could the Commissioner bo authorised to give his certificate to tho signatures accordingly as they had signed ? There are other members of the deputation who, perhaps, can speak more fully on this point

Mr. M. -J. Gannon : One of the great difficulties in the way of getting signatures passed passed by the Trust Commissioner is in the delay that takes place between the signing of the deed and the endorsement by the Commissioner of his certificate to the deed. Under the present system, if a body of natives, or a single native, were to come to town to-day —no matter how willing to part with their interests to a European, the transaction could not possibly be concluded, and the Trust Commissioner’s certificate affixed to the deed without a week’s notice being given by means of posted notices. Then three or four days must elapse before the certificate is signed. These delays worked unsatisfactorily to all parties. Many times natives who live in Taupo, Tauranga, and other parts of the colony, as many of them do who are interested in lands in this district, were detained here for many days before they could complete their transactions. Business between both races would be largely facilitated if the Trust Commissioner were empowered at the time the transaction between the European and native took place, to make all the enquiries under the Act, and then delay his signature for a fortnight if necessary, so as to enable all opposing parties to enter their protests. With reference te lands held Under Memorial of Ownership, according to recent decisions, the Trust Commissioner could not give, according to law, his certificate to deeds of this class. The defect lay not with the Trust Commissioner, but in the law, and unless the law were altered next session, there was a great probability of the way being opened to a large amount of injustice being done. I do not desire to make any reflections on any 'officers of the Government, but merely to point out one of the many defects ■that exist in the existing Native land laws. (a Hon. Mr. RoHestOn: sthted thxT new regulations had been issued tfuder this head. [The last Gazette issued will, it is stated, tend in a large degree to amend the existing defect under this head. Oke Local VAiCATisa Body. Mr. Johnson : We desire to bring under your notice the advisability of only one local body valuing. Sometimes the Road Board valuations are excessively low. Hon. Mr. Rolleston: The different Road Boards assess, and the County strikes the rate. Mr. W. K. Chambers: Tn this. County, some of the Road Boards on •hearing that the County was bound to take their valuations, reduced itnme■diatclv their assessments by five and twenty per eent. A great loss has in general ensued to the County in consequence. Hon. Mr. RoHetftcn : They have their remedy, but only by protest. Mr Comment Another point is the present system of collecting the rates. If the Road Boards struck their rates, tfind the Counties collected them, it 'would be better. The County could then hand over the rates to the Road Board. The advantage of this would be that there would be only oite collecting body. Hon. Mr Rolleston: Yes ; I think that is a question that certainly deserves careful consideration. I have heard all over the Country the same -question raised. I believe that at home there is one rating authority under one uniform valuation. I know that the Education Committee at home apply to the fating bodies for so much in the pound. But this particular matter is not in any department. Other members of the Ministry have to do with it. I’ll take care that what you say will be represented to them. Licensing Act. Mr J. W. Johnson : The Licensing Act puts the County to much expense as it is at present worked. For instance, this year it Causes a reduction to the County revenue of over £lOO, besides costing over £.50 to carry the elections of the committee. Hon. Mr Rolleston: What are .your receipts under the Licensing Act ? Mr J. W. Johnson : £5OO Hon Mr. Rolleston : Then it actually costs over one-fifth of your revenue from that source. Mr. J. W. Johnson : Yes. With reference to the Maori assessor in outlying districts, according to the Act nothing can be dene without his -consent. Hon. Mr. Rollestonls that so ? That is so in purely native districts ? Mr. J. W. Johnson : Yes. ■Hon. Mr. Rolleston: There was a good deal of discussion with regard to the Native assessors in the House when the Bill was passing. The Government itself did not support the matter. At the next session, many points in the existing Act will bo discussed. Some features of the present measure were more of an experimental character. Mr Common : We found out this morning that the Licensing Committee elections, while incurring an expense of £5O to the County, decrease the local revenue of the County by £lOO. Supreme Court. Mr Johnson : The Council wish to ask you if the Government would be prepared to take any steps to having sittings of tire Supreme Court held in Gisborne. A very great expense is caused in consequence of cases from this district having to be tried in Napier. To private individuals the expense was very great indeed.

Hon. Mr Rolleston : What is the population of this district? His Worship the Mayor: About 3,500. I may state, according to an estimate by a leading solicitor in Poverty Bay, the local expenditure that would come under the different heads in connection with Supreme Court and Registry Office procedure for this district is Stamp charges... ... ...£BOOO Agency... ... ... ... 6000 Solicitors’ costs in connection V with the above ... r 1000 Attending Supreme Court ) Criminal costs... ... ... 4000 £19,000 Hon. Mr’ Rolleston : Circumstances have brought about a good deal of litigation here. At the present time it is doubtful whether the litigation will continue in the same ratio or not. The question is one for the department of Justice to consider. Next session the proposals of the Judicial Commission will come under the consideration of the House. This district Will come under its revision. I was aware, during the time 1 was Minister of Justice, of the feelings of this district on the subject. I did not think then that the Government would be justified in going into the work. Whether the present arrangement will admit of it or not. I cannot say. I will represent the matter to the Hon. Mr. Dick, and inform him of what you say. Mr. Bennett: I would point out that Napier was not anything as large as this place when it had a Supreme Court. Hon. Mr. Rolleston : No. I don’t think it was. That is true. But you could not multiply the attendances of the Supreme Court all over the colony. The same Court could suffice for a much larger population. It is a question of transit. Mr. Bennett: That will cut both ways. It is just as easy for the Supreme Court to come here, and cheaper for the Government. Hon. Mr. Rolleston: Yes. But there are other considerations. The taxpayer has to be considered. Mr. Bennett: In criminal cases the general expenses fall upon the taxpayer. Hon. Mr. Rolleston: Yes; no doubt it is so. Mr. W. K. Chambers: This is a subject worthy of your special consideration. There is too much likelihood of the causes of litigation remaining, unless radical changes are brought about in the land laws. It is really more expensive to the colony to have the cases in which the Bay is interested heard at Nanier than to have them heard here. It is really absolutely necessary to have an altera! ion. Hon. Mr Rolleston : I can only say that I will take care that the matter will be represented to the Government. You cannot expect me to give a definite answer upon a matter outside of mv own department. It is a question that bears on the administration of justice, and the Minister of Justice will no doubt consider the matter. Other matters were brought under the notice of the Hon. Mr Rolleston, a full report of which will appear in our next issue.