PUBLIC MEETING

Patea Mail, 16 September 1881, Page 4

PUBLIC MEETING

portion of the Comity without going to tlie County as a whole ? , Mr GriBSON : If We could get a ratlins of three miles. , Chairman : I would ask the Chairman of the Harbor Board, must three or four consecutive notices be inserted in the paper stating the intention of the Harbor Board to get a rating bill before the House, and must the notices be put in consecutively and weekly ? ’ Mr Coutts : It must once a week for four weeks running. Chairman : Then the practical . effect would be that after this meeting the Harbor Board Would have to give four consecutive notices weekly. . : Mr Adams : And the House rises next, week. (Laughter.) Mr Dale : It is necessary to give such notices before taking a vote of the ratepayers, but not before the bill goes before the House. Chairman : I understand that a rating bill proposing a special rate, on a district has to have certain notices given. I wish to have that made clear, because correspondence did take place with the Harbor Board, in which the member in charge of the bill intimated that the Board would have to put these notices in. Mr Coutts (after conferring with Mr £>ale) : I misunderstood your question before. I thought you referred to taking a vote of the ratepayers. Mr Dale : Yes, I thought he misunderstood it.

Mr Houghton then spoke to the following effect; As I am sometimes regarded as a medium of communicating information, I. think it is a public duty that I should tell the meeting what I know of the point just raised. The following telegram was sent to me Sept, Ist, by Major Atkinson : .

“Up all night. Telegram only just received. Have not withdrawn, bill.: Gan go on directly notice has been given by three advertisements, as Board advised; Important to lose no more time, as session getting towards end.” The telegram referred to as sent to the Harbor Board is this :

“ If Harbor Bill is to be gone on;with, important to give notice to-morrow,, next Saturday, and on Monday week, the bill being a local one under Standing Orders.” To understand what is meant, these telegrams should be read together ; forjl did not clearly understand why the Major urged that it was important to lope no time before publishing notices. I was not aware of the telegram to the Harbor Board until to-day], when I enquired for information at the office. Probably it was my own fault that- the Board’s telegram did not come to rny knowledge before. I understand that telegram to mean the Standing Orders of the House require that due notice , of a rating] bill shall be; published in the district before that bi|l can pass the second reading; There; is jsbme such regulation at Home, but this is the first time it has come under ray notice in this colony. But the point is settled by another telegram from Major Atkinson received just before the meeting, in answer to an inquiry I had wired this forenoon. He says .... . - ■ ■ * • ■ “ Weekly notice is, requisite,, I fearjt

is now tn.o late to take action tins session. House will probably prorogue next week, and iMiico time would not expire till week after.” Commotion in meeting, and laughter. Mr Tennent complained that the time of the meeting had been wasted in a useless discussion. If Mr Houghton had produced that telegram earlier, or shown it to the conveners of the meeting, he would not have made such fools of the meeting. Mr Houghton : I suppose I may say a word in reply. I received this telegram at five minutes past six fins evening, and did not see any of the conveners of this meeting before coming here. I tried to make this known earlier to the meeting, but was prevented. I asked the Chairman, before putting the previous motion, to let me say a few words. He said it was too late. But. I said this is only an explanation. He said it was too : late to speak, as the mover had replied. : I did not press the point further, as the’ Chairman had ruled I could not speak. I Wished to make the explanation as soon as the point arose in the business. Then I thought I could do it on the next resolution ; and when the point was’ raisfed tiy others, I interposed to tel! the meeting what I knew, as a public duty. The first resolution is only genefalj 'and does not refer specially to this bill. But the discussion seems to pie to have been useful, although nothing can come of it at present. It will have this benefit, that when the question of a harbor rate comes up again, we shall all appreciate the importance of it. (Voice: The resolution is useless.) I look on that resolution as valuable in so far as it helps to form public opinion. It has no other value. Youf bill is lost ! for tnis session. The Government have strangled their own Interesting innocents for want of time to get them through, and it is not: likely they would now throw away time on a private bill. Even if they were wiliing to do so in this case, it is clear.you cannot give four weekly notices before the House rises next week. (Laughter.) As to the rating, I would offer a suggestion. The suburban laud near the borough will be behefifted more ..than country farms* by Improving the river, and in your next bill you might define three areas of rating —the borough, the suburban land.'-and'the country dis trict. The second area might include laud three miles or live miles outside the borough. Then if the borough were rated at a certain figure, the second circle could be rated rather less, and the large outer circle at a lower rate. Yo£r might get Nos. 1 and 2 to consent to a harbor rate in fair proportions, arid if No. 3 would not consent also, you could carry on the work with the help of Nos. 1 and 2. Mr Adams : This telegram’ shows there was no chance for the bill, and the whole thing has been n farce from the'first. It was never intended to be anything else. (Laughter.) ' .. . Mr Let t : Who pays for that advertisement calling the meeting. We have been brought here for nothing. There has been a fox in this business. Who is, it? Rout him out. Where is lie ? (Laughter.) Mr Tennent: I ask to withdfaw my resolution.

Agreed to be withdrawn. - Mr Milroy : Will we have for this all again in print at 3d per copy ?

Voice : No, twopence. Chairman r I understand the papers are free now. (Laughter,> . f Mr Dale ; I propose that a copy of the first resolution be forwarded to Major Atkinson. Mr Barker : I second that.

Mr H. I. Davis: I propose that we make no further fools of ourselves.

He went to the table, but the Chairman declined to take the amendment in that form. It was then formally moved thus : “That no farther action be taken'in the matter.” Mr Milroy : I second that. There is no 'doubt we should be inclined to support an amendment to the bill, and that amendment it seems impossible to put in the bill in the present session. Araendmentput to ' the vote: 17 for, 5 against. Voice : Mr , Barker seconded the amendment, and then' voted against it. Mr Barker ; Yes I did. (Much laughter.) After what was said for the amendment , I changed my mind, (daughter.) Amendment was then put as the substantive motion, ,and. was. carried -by 16 to 3. ■

Only a small portion’ ’of those present voted on any of the motions. . The meeting broke up abruptlyy and the usual vote to the Chairman was prbposed too late to be listened.-<»—.•>

AND WHAT CAM 15 OF IT. A summary sketch of a public meeting on the harbor rating question was printed in the last issue, there being then no space for a fuller report. Mr Sherwood having been voted to the chair, after other persons had declined : Mr Dale said : Wc are assembled to consider very important business, and that is the question of a harbor, I was in hopes that the meeting would have been more largely attended, but as is usual with Patea people, they may show up a little later on. The Harbor Board endeavored to obtain a bill this session which would have given an endowment and also certain other powers to enable them to carry on . the..work ; but that bill along with other endowment bills was rejected by. the Government. A bill was then brought in by Major Atkinson for giving this Harbor Board-power to impose a rate on property for’carrying out the works. There can be no -question so far that the works have been beneficial, to the district, and it is our opinion that if the river was still further improved it would considerably add to the value of property not only in town but in country districts also. There appears to be a feeling among settlers against a rate, but settlers have never yet had an opportunity of .voting on the question of rate or no rate,; and I consider the bill now before the House can do no harm in any shape by being brought on in its present state. The bill would enable the Harbor Board to call meetings of the ratepayers to. say whether they would be willing to pay a rate,for. improving the river. The bill divides the Borough from the Count}’, and I take it that if country settlers objected to a rate for-river improvements, it could then be decided whether the ratepayers within -the proposed Borough would be willing to be rated. The rateable value of the present township, made . up-in January, was £5,185, and taking the : large increase in the value of. property within the . last 12 months, I don’t think there is any question that the rateable value for the borough will be some £B,OOO. - The future borough will be .in a good position as regards funds. It. is. well endowed with land, which will help to save a heavy rate from being, imposed.- The rents are worth about £330 a year, and as .soon as the town leases expire—and a lot of: them are very shortrr-lhey will be let as -building - sites, instead of paddocks. The borough would be entitled to receive the; licenses from auctioneers, publicans* and other sources, which would be say £3OO. • A rate of 6t in the pound on £B,OOO would bring in £2OO, and that would be £BOO. This is a very small rate as compared with other: boroughs in the colony. The borough will have no debt, but it is to be hoped the borough will, with these resources, be able to borrow for town improvements, and be able to pay interest. Therefore a rate of 6d in the pound for the borough will be sufficient. At present you are paying about Qd in the town and about 9d in the County; that*is Is 6J. I consider we could well afford, until the population increases, to pay Is in the pound on the rateable value of property for harbor improvements, and it would be money well spent. Mr Dale then illustrated the effect on the increasing value of property, speaking at length ; and concluded by moving “That in the opinion of this meeting it would be to the best interests of the ratepayers within the proposed borough of Patea that further

hnproveihehts should he made at the entrance to the Patea river; and that we are willing to be rated for the purpose of paying interest on a sum not exceeding £IO,OOO, to be borrowed for the purpose of effecting such improvements.” Mr E. C. Horner briefly seconded. Mr Lett: We might have our darkness

enlightened by some of those gentlemen

who signed the requisition. Does Mr Dale mean that we arc to be rated for that ten thousand immediately, or what sum does he, propose to start with ?

, Mr Dade ; The question of what sum shall bo borrowed will be left eventually to the ratepayers. It will be for the. Harbor Board to say on what sum they

will take a vote of the ratepayers. 'Mr Tennent ; Even if the country people do not see their own interests, it is ho reason why the townspeople should not see their interests. If we have a harbor that is capable of taking in vessels that wilt carry away stock and produce, and bitng in goods, the properties contiguous

to this town must increase considerably in value. : On a bolding of 500 or 700 acres, even, an addition of - 10s an acre means an enormous sum to the owners. We can only hope (hat settlers will see

things in that light. But if they say that other rates are so exceedingly heavy that they cannot stand any more, there is no reason why we should decline to be rated for harbor improvements. Yon all remember when freights from Wellington were £2 10s per ton, and you know what they are now. I look upon that as due to two things : the harbor works, and the establishment of a local steam shipping company. Wc want the port to go on improving; and the only way to keep this town improving is to go on improving the harbor. The Harbor Board has stated that this is a matter of colonial importance, but I am afraid the House will not look at it in that way. They will say, “ You must help yourselves,” r.nd.then the House will help us. Perhaps the House will give ns power to borrow money, and that is as far as the . House will go. We should be only too glad to get that if we can get nothing better. (Applause.) Mr Barker : I for one, as having a certain amount of interest ni this borough, would support the present resolution. There is not the slightest doubt that the work already done has been of immense value, and has been done efficiently. The money to be borrowed and spent will give increased wharfage revenue by increased shipping. Mr J. Gibson : Would it not be £20,000 we should have -to pay interest on ? Chairman : This is a proposal to limit (lie operation within - the borough, and it limits the amount to £IO,OOO. Mr Gibson : It is said the increased wharfages would go considerably towards paying the interest, but there is another £IO,OOO that the wharfages have to go towards paying interest on. Mr Dale: That resolution will apply only to future money borrowed under that bill'.

Chairman : Has any member of the Harbor Board got a copy of the bill ? It seems to be kept very dark. Mr Dale : The principal parts of the bill have been printed in the Mail, which everybody has bad an opportunity of studying. Mr Lett : I shall ask my question again--1 should like to see the amount fixed on which we shall have to pay interest, or we may have to pay Is 6d or 2s in (he pound. Mr Bright: Could this meeting instruct Major Atkinson what to do with the bill, independently of the Harbor Board ?

Mr Adams : I think Hie member for the district has ignored the Board altogether in the matter. He has not communicated with the Board since they telegraphed to him to withdraw the bill, although he has communicated with ratepayers in the district. I still think wc ought to withdraw' the bill for this session, as there is every probability that next session we shall get endowment (Voice : No), but not to the amount of 20,000 acres we asked for. Major Atkinson knew from the first there was no chance for the bill, and he brought it in as a political dodge of some sortHe was a leading member of the Government which rejected the endowment billI am an impartial man in what I think, and I think he knew there, was no chance for that bill. About fourteen harbor constituencies will send members to the next Parliament pledged to get endowments, and we shall then have a dvance. Major Atkinson helped the New Plymouth harbor, which may cost millions to make, but he won’t help to grant us a sixpence. We should never have got the £IO,OOO if it depended on him. There is no possibility of carrying this bill, as the House rises next week. If we try, and try, and try again, we may get something ; but not by this bill. Chairman: Without expressing an opinion for or against this proposal—it is a matter I shall shortly be prepared to give my opinion on in another place, and at length—l can express regret that a tnuch longer notice was not given to the ratepayers to consider such an important matter as this. This bill might have been before the public in all its bearings at the beginning of the session ; and when it took tho new shape; of a rating bill, the, public should have been asked without delay, to give an opinion. Yet there has been no- actual;movement till yesterday. : Mr Dale : As regards the shortness of the - notice calling the meeting, I was tinder the impression until yesterday that the Harbor Board’s resolution had been acted on. I read a letter expressing • regret that the Harbor Board had not seen their way to allow the bill to go on, and I was informed that the bill was not _yet withdrawn. It was on that that I immediately went round to got certain gentlemen to sign a requisition to call this meeting. During the last twb or three weeks I hove taken on myself to endeavor to get the feeling of the public bn this

matter, in reference to speaking to members of the Harbor Board and speaking to ratepayers. As far as Major Atkinson is concerned, he knew nothing of ibis meeting until after the requisition was signed. When I obtained a certain number ofsignatures and got (he consent of the Chairman of the Town Board to convene the meeting, I then wired to .Major Atkinson asking him not to withdraw the bill until he heard the result of this meeting. I disagree with Mr Adams that there is no time. I think there is time, because I do not think it is a bill in its present form that will cause much discussion, and it can be easily put through. It did not require such a long notice to call the ratepayers of this district together. If we had had to call the settlers together it would have been necessary to give longer notice ; but the notice appears to ha\ e been sufficient for the purpose. Mr Dale’s motion was then put to the meeting : 13 hands held up for, and 2 against (including J. Gibson). , Chairman ; The motion is carried. Bill to go on—A Stoppage. Mr Tennent then moved “ That Major Atkinson be asked to proceed with the hill at present before the Hotise ; arid in the event of the bill being passed this session, that the Harbor Board be requested to take a vote of the ratepayers on the question of borrowing for river improvements.” The resolution expresses only that before you can be rated, your opinion will have to be taken at the ballot box.

Mr Gibson : I second that, although I voted against the previous motion..; I am in favor of the harbor-works going bn, but I don’t exactly agree with the ■ present motion that the Harbor Board should simply call a meeting of ratepayers. I fancy we have now taken it out of the hands of the country ratepayers, who are quite as much interested in the work as the people in the town. We have. ;by the previous resolution, mortgaged our town funds for another Board to handle. There is nothing that will make the place so prosperous as the improvement of the river, but I question very much \Vhether this borough, as small as the boundaries have been made, is.in a position to carry on the works of the borough and! of the Harbor Board as well. 1 Mr R. A, Adams : As to the borough rating itself, Mr Gibson can rest his mind easy. I am satisfied the borough is not capable of rating itself to the extent of one shilling in the pound, except ratepayers can see their way clear to be benefitted by it. Some of us can see it would pay us to be rated 3s, 4s, or 5s in the pound ; but the general run of ratepaj'ers, such as large proprietors outside the town, won’t be willing when it comes to the ballot, where no one sees how they vote. What good would this bill be if we get it ? We jam ourselves against having a bill next session. The House would say “When yon have acted on that; rating bill, we may give yon a helping hand.” But if we leave this bill to go where it was intended by the honorable number for the Egrnont district that it should go, we shall be doing- a good filing for ourselves. If we get an endowment of 10,600 or even 6,000 acres, on an average value of £4 an acre, we should get £20,000, and then we could borrow money to complete the work which that endowment would have carried to a certain point. We may, on the other hand, shut ourselves off from any endowment for five or six years.

Voice : You are shutting off far more than that now.

Mr Barker : Does this bill give us power to include land near the borough-—land that would be enormously increased in value?

Mr Gibson ; Hear, hear. Increased at our expense.

Mr Barker : Yes, if we are fool enough to do it.

Mr Gibson : It amounts to this.. Those gentlemen can stand on one side, .while others increase the value of their property for them. ' j Mr Dade : The bill provides a County and a borough rate. , ’ . Mr.'TENNENT : If the country people decline, and stand in the light of their o\yn interest, the Harbor Board have it in their power to make them pay by adding a certain sum on the wharfage rates. Mr Gibson & Mr AdAms : Yes, and drive trade away. ■ Mr BARKER : We have left out of the proposed borough certain land (Voice : The Swamp)—a tract of land which would be largely increased in value. Cannot there be in the bill power to rate a certain