Want of Confidence Motion.

Patea Mail, 26 July 1881, Page 4

Want of Confidence Motion.

Up to the present the following members have spoken in the Assembly on the Want of Confluence Motion. Por the Government, Major Atkinson, Colonel Trimble, Walter johnston, Sutton, Oliver, Whitaker, G. McLean, Collins, Wakefield, Murray, Gibbs, Russell, Hursthouse, Flail, Seymour Wright, Bunny, and Weston. Against the Government, Sir George Grey, Saunders, Ormond, Lcvistam, Turnbull, Major Te Wherero, Tawhni, Reader Wood, Reid, Shiimski, Gisborne, and Moss. Tairoa also went against the rating of native lands. Mr Hall strongly condemned the remarks made by Sir George Grey about the Judges. He denied there was any public demand for a change in their governing institutions. All that was desired was the assistance necessary to enable existing institutions satisfactorily to perform the duties devolving on them. He defended the Government in stopping public works, such action having been necessary to preserve the credit of the colony. Notwithstanding that the drag bad been put on, two millions had been spent on public works during the past twelve months. *As long as the House retained, as it should do, the sole power of legislation, it would be impossible to relieve it of dealing with local questions. He defended the existing local bodies,, as distrinbtiog the work of local government amongst the people, and producing excellent results. Sir George Grey’s proposal was to establish not nine but twenty provinces. Referring to Mr Saunders’s proposals, he expressed perfect readiness to go to the country on the question of restoration of the Provinces. In reply to Mr Wood’s assertion that the local government question had not been in the original programme of the session, he quoted the Governor’s speech to show, by its reference to the Bill for local public works, that their proposals were by no means sudden or unthought of. He pointed out the large powers possessed by Counties under the present system, and he admitted that the Road Boards were even more useful bodies than the County Councils. If fuller powers were not possessed by these bodies, to obviate the necessity for constant reference to Wellington, it was owing to the action of the Provincial party in the House, who had twice prevented a Road Boards Bill being passed. If the people wanted a system to work out their own destines in local government, the present system afforded the opportunity for extension and improvement towards that end. The Government desired to decentralise as far as they possibly could, but would strenuously resist the cutting up the colony into a number of petty republic and useless states. They proposed to extend and improve the County Council and Road Board system, to give them increased powers, delegated and otherwise, and do away with the necessity for frequent reference to Wellington. They also proposed to give these bodies reasonable pecuniary assistance to enable them to perform their proper functions. Sucti were the Government proposals. They did not pretend that they were perfect, and they would in Committee gladly accept any amendments calculated to make them more perfect. If Mr Ormond had only wanted these proposals relegated to the constituencies, he should have worded his motion in a less hostile fashion. Unless Government possessed a majority in the House they would not endeavor to carry a Redistribution Bill through. If the present motion was carried, either Mr Ormond must take office with his new friends, or they must go to the country on the present basis of representation. Mr Ormond could not escape the responsibility of the action he had taken. In concluding, he felt it his unpleasant duty to say that Mr Ormond had acted very wrongly in moving the amendment without giving notice to the Government, amongst whose supporters he had up till then been numbered. He could find nothing in Mr Ormond’s speech to his constituents which could have led Government to expect such conduct. The very essence of party government was that members of a party should trust each other. Mr Ormond’s desertion, without notice, deserved the most severe condemnation. Whatever the result of the division was, he could look back to the administration of the past two years with satisfaction, and with gratitude to the generous support given them by their party, which had enabled the Government to acheive whatever good results had attended their administration.

Sir George Grey heartily commiserated the position of Ministers, who had reached

the end of their tether. They deserved their fate, however, for they had ever allowed circumstances to guide their policy instead of by policy creating circumstances. He denied that he was ever insane enough to propose to restore Provincialism. In national life there was no going back. What he and his friends wanted was to take a step in advance, and create something better than the old provincial institutions. He likened the present system of local government with its-plural voting to a system devised by a certain class of men to save their ill-gotten wealth. He felt degraded living under such a system. He wanted to give men equal rights, and as in America to give them *he power of making their own laws and determining the form of their own institutions. The people of every district in the colon}' were as capable of doing this as that House was. Again, elected judges were no novelty ; in England many corporations elected them. He would have more confidence in a Judge elected by the people than in one appointed by that House. His plan of Government would reduce taxation to a minimum, give all men equal rights, and open rewards for legitimate ambition, to energy, ability, and merit. He would have all the property tax returns made public, and the legal and other professions thrown open. Hecalled on all who loved their country and wished to give New Zealand free institutions to vote for the amendment.

Mr Gibbs, who resumed the debate on Friday afternoon, considered that Road Boards had done good service, and that the Counties should be placed on an improved footing. He intended to support the Government.

Mr Reid admitted the present system was fairly good, and concurred generally in the proposals of the Government to improve it, but contended that the Government as constituted had not the confidence of the country. He would vote against the Government, as he had no confidence that they would carry out their own proposals. Mr Shrimski spoke on the same side. He charged the Government with having neglected his district. He was opposed to the proposals brought down, and charged the Government with dangling the Public Works folio for the purpose of securing support. The constitution of the proposed Local Works Board was vicious, and was framed with a view of securing increased support to Government. Even although the no-confideuce motion was not carried, the redistribution of seats as proposed would not be carried. It was planned with the view of suiting the purposes of the government party. For example, a disaffected portion of the Waikouaiti electorate, which was represented by a friend of the Government, had been cut off and tacked on to his constituency. He also complained of partiality in carrying out retrenchment. Mr Hursthouse criticised the remarks made by previous speakers, and referring to Mr Wood, admitted his brilliant talents, but said that, by his unstable conduct, he had dragged constitutional government through the mire. Instead of the fall which had taken place in wages being an indication of stagnation, he thought they would have to fall lower before many industries could be profitably established. He strongly supported the Government proposals as supplying a concrete form of local government. At the same time there' was, perhaps, too much governmnet. He did not think both Counties and Road Boards were required, and of the two he preferred the Road Boards. If any simpler scheme for opening up the country were proposed he would support it, but in the meantime, he would vote with the Government. What was really wanted was the maximum of funds with a minimum of official expenditure. He advocated repealing the Triennial Parliaments Bill. Mr Gisborne reviewed the history of local government in New Zealand since its settlement. The Provinces should have been improved, not abolished. With the proposal to rate Crown lands he agreed, and to some extent also with that of rating Native lands, but he totally disagreed with the proposed method of distributing the funds by means of a paid Board. Except from the Disqualification Act, such a proposal was demoralising to the House. He defended Mr Ormond’s action in moving the amendment. It was no satisfaction to a district like the West Coast, languishing for local self-government, to be told that the general administration of the Government had been satisfactory. Were the amendment to be rejected they would see the humiliating spectacle of anothersession passing without anything being done, for even some of those who would vote against the amendment would also

vote against these measures. The Government might long ago have reintroduced the Redistribution of Seats Bill, without waiting for the census returns to afford mathematical precision. They could even last session have remedied the gross inequalities existing. He regretted that the late Government had not left a Local Government Bill in their pigeon-holes when they went out, so that the present Government might have appropriated it, as they had all the other measures they had passed. He would like to see districts larger than the Counties, but smaller than the old Provinces, with power to the inhabitants of each to elect a governing body having full and exclusive power to deal with local matters of legislation or otherwise. Such bodies should also have defined revenues to appropriate, and each district should settle for itself the nature of its subordinate bodies, whether Road Boards otherwise. Mr Wright argued that the proposals of the Government were not perfect, but he objected to turning the Ministry out, and so burry on a dissolution, and then another session ; although he would not at all object to a second honorarium. At the same time he did not see much chance of an improvement on the present occupants of the Government benches, and he should therefore vote against the amendment. Mr Moss denied that such a thing as real local government existed in the colony, or had existed since that House commenced to muddle with the Provinces. Now that public attention was aroused, the question would not be allowed, to rest until it was settled, whatever the fate of the present debate. The present Ministry was composed of men who had always opposed local government, and until it was got rid of there was no hope for the country. He hoped to see a reversion to a system of independent Provinces with a Federal Government, such as had really at first existed, under one constitution, each local body having power to regulate its own local affairs without outside interference. The local bodies should have exclusive power in this respect, and the subjects for that House to deal with should be defined and respected. The number of members of that House should then be reduced, and to guard against Parliament undermining the local bodies, as it had undermined the Provinces, the Upper House should be made elective, and be elected by the local bodies. Under this system the management of native affairs might be left to the local bodies, and the expenses of the General Government so reduced at to leave ample funds for the local bodies to administrate. Mr Harris moved the adjournment of the debate to Tuesday, and the House rose at midnight. 4