PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Patea Mail, Volume 1, Issue 22, 26 June 1875, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

(From Taranaki Herald.) Thursday, June 17. REFUSAL OF LEAVE TO WITHDRAW MOTION. Mr Sherwood asked leave to withdraw Ids motion relative to the repeal of the rating clause of the Education Ordinance, but it was refused, and was therefore postponed. SECULAR INSTRUCTION. In the adjourned debate on Mr Upjohn’s motion, relative to the repeal of clause 18 of the Education Ordinance, allowing religious Instruction to be given in schools, Messrs Andrews, McGuire, Hughes, Callaghan, Peacock, and Sherwood spoke in opposition to the resolution and Messrs Syme and Connett In favour.—After Mr • Upjohn had replied, a division was called for, when the motion was lost. Ayes, 4 ; nocs, 11. THE £20,000 GRANT. Mr Sherwood moved—“ That a statement be laid on the table showing how the £20,000 General Government grant has been expended, and the proposed expenditure of the balance (if any).”—Mr Kelly seconded it, and said the required information as to what had been expended should be laid on the table, but, it being a General Government grant, the Provincial Government could not say how it was to be expended. Hitherto, however, the Government had acceded to the recommendation of the Provincial Government. BRANDING ORDINANCE. The Council went into Committee on the 4< Branding of Cattle Ordinance, 1875.” After all the clauses had been passed it was resolved that the Chairman x - eport progress and ask leave to sit again. EDUCATION RATE. Mr Sherwood moved—“ That the rating clause of the “ Education Ordinance, 1874,” be rescinded.” He considered that the money required for Educational purposes should come out of the land revenue rather than by a direct tax on the people. The education rate had been amry difficult to collect; and a great deal of the rate in the Patea District would remain unpaid. He mentioned an instance of a hawker having taken possession of a tent for a short time, and being brought before the Court and ordered to pay the rate ; and for which his goods were seized, while a large farmer, with several farms but only one house erected on them, had only to pay the same amount. He thought it was a most unfair way af rating the people. Great difficulty had been experienced in deciding what constituted a householder. ■sL’he Patea Board had decided that any sort of a hut is a house ; and if any person pitches his tent in the district, he has to pay the rate. In Otago, the land fund is the principal source from which money for educational purposes is derived. Ho had intended to have withdrawn his resolution, but found that it was not the wish of the Council that he should do so. He had gone carefully into the subject, and saw that the Ordinance could not be altered this session. The school fees at present were 6s. 6d. per quarter for each child, but he considered they should be raised to at least 10s. per quarter. The Board has the power to remit the fees of any child if they think the case requires it. There were at present about 700 children attending the schools, which would realise £1,400 per year if each child paid 10s. per quarter. He considered 10 per cent of the land revenue could very well be handed over -for education purposes, and this, added to wthe £1,400 school fees, he thought would be quite sufficient for the purpqse. Major Brown, in seconding the resolution, said he had brought forward a similar one last session. Education was for the benefit of the people. One great result of e duration was peace and security to s ociely, and lie considered the wealthy

benefittod most by that. The Board had the power to relieve those of the rate whom they thought were not in a position to pay ; hut (here were persons between tlie two extremes of poverty and wealth who would still be unjustly dealt with. As the owners of land reaped the greatest benefits from education, the revenue for educational purposes should betaken from the land, Mr Kelly thought that the mover of the resolution had acted with more boldness than prudence. He had not made out a good case, which had surprised him (Mr Kelly), considering he had had it on the notice paper for some time. It was not right to repeal the Act because the Patea Board had acted unjustly towards the hawker. He admitted the unfairness of the tax. He was in favour of a valuation rate. It was only a portion of the funds required for educational purposes that was collected directly from the people. Ho believed in setting aside the waste lands of the Province for educational purpose, but the sums which had been collected from those resources were very small. In every block which had been sold, 5 per cent of the land had boon set aside for educational purposes. Major Brown had stated that the tax was unpalatable to the people. It is less unpalatable now than it was. There certainly was just cause for complaint in some cases against paying the rate, but if children were to be educated, all must bear a share of the expense. He considered that education should go further than merely teaching the children how to read and write ; they should learn how to earn their own living. They wanted technical as well as school education. Those were not friends of the people who would vote to take the rate away. Mr Callaghan was opposed to the tax, and gave some statistics with reference to the town schools. One of the schools in the town was in a bad state, and not fit to send children to, but the other two were a little better. He thought this was the cause of so few children attending the schools.

Mr Peacock was sorry he could not agree witli Mr Sherwood on this question. He had not succeed ed in making an argument, and he had also failed to bring forward any scheme to substitute for the clause in question. It was well understood that the rates were not nearly sufficient for educational purposes. With reference to the hawker, he considered the Resident Magistrate was not up to his duties when he gave judgment against him. The law distinctly stated that every householder must pay the rate. The mover of the resolution had stated something about popularity, which no doubt was a very good thing. Mr Sherwood might became popular if he could get the £1 rate without taxing the people ; but he had entirely failed to inform the Council how the money was to be raised if the rate was to be dispensed with. He was in favour of a valuation rate.

Mr Standish, as a member of the Education Board, would say a few words in reply to Mr Callaghan. He should quite agree with him that the schools .were not a credit to the Board, if it had plenty of funds ; but it could not go further than its funds would allow. The Board had not been in existence very long, but he considered it had worked well since its formation. It had provided books and furniture for the schools, and had several country schools repaired. It had .also built live new schools, and supplemented the salaries of two of the teachers. It had also to enfploy a gentleman as secretary, who did all the work required for £l5O per annum. The chairman of the Board had visited all the schools and carefully examined them, and his report was before the Council.

Mr Syme said it was plain the mover of the resolution had changed his opinion since he had tabled his motion, as evinced by his wishing to withdraw it. The Act had proved a reasonable success, and it would be a pity to disturb it. The initiation of a new Act was always attended with difficulties. Taking all things into consideration, he thought there was no reason to complain of the way in which the Act had been received throughout the Province. With reference to taking money for educational purposes out of the land revenue, already 65 per cent of the land was absorbed, independent of the cost of roads, and he could not see how 10 per cent more was to be taken from it for educational purposes. He should like to see the school fees less, instead of increasing them. Mr Sherwood intended to put all the expense of education on the heads of families, and let all rich bachelors and others similarly situated off scot free. A great deal had been said at times about the insufficiency of school accommodation in tire town. There was accommodation for 240 children, and the attendance was far short of that number. Mr Elliot moved the adjournment of the debate, which was carried. Friday, June 18, The adjourned debate on Mr Sherwood’s motion, for the repeal of the rating clause of the Education Act was renewed by Mr Elliott, who said he should vote in favour of the motion. He thought it was the most unjust Act that had ever been passed, as it was aimed at the labouring man. It had been the means of closing a valuable private school, and compelling an able schoolmaster to leave the Province. Ho commented on the manner the Board had conducted matters, and instanced Waitara East. Mr Andrews defended the Ordinance, and said it would be a pity to meddle with it in any way. The system was gaining Mends every day. He pointed out that Mr Sherwood’s statement that the rates were difficult of being collected, was at variance with the report of tie Patca Board. He disagi’eed with the statement that the Ordinance was unjust to the poor man. The man in affluence could look after the education of his children, but which the poor man could not, and the Ordinance gave him that power. He instanced a case where he knew of a party settling in another Province because he could have his children better educated. He was rather amu ed at the course taken by Messrs Bl own and Elliott now saying that the Ordinance

was unlust. Why was it more so than when the Ordinance was passed ! Mr Upjohn supported the Ordinance strongly, and opposed its being altered. He contended that it was most advantageous to the labouring man to get his children educated. He commented on the remarks made respecting the Board, which he considered had done a great amount of good, and instanced Upper and Lower Mangorei, where, since the Board had been in existence, two schools had been built and schoolmasters engaged. He referred to Nelson and the advantage offered there for the eddeation of the children, whilst in this Province, before the war, in a district he was in twenty-five children were running about like heathens.

Mr McGuire said Mr Sherwood had not made out his case. The rate had heen collected with very little difficulty ; and the party mentioned as having had his things sold was well able to pay it, and, moreover, at one time rented a house in the di»trict. From his knowledge of the opinion of the Patca people they had no wish to have the rate repealed. Mr Hughes said much time had been occupied in going over a subject that had been fully discussed before. He thought it a pity that the notice should have been forced on, when Mr Sherwood wished to withdraw it ; but he supposed it had been done in order that a veteran might have a shot direct at the mover. The matter of education was as yet only an experiment in the Province ; and the system adopted should have a fair trial before they attempted to amend it. Mr Connett was sorry to see the notice on the paper, but it having been placed there he thought they had a right to hear what the mover had to say oh the subject. There was one mistake the Board had made which was in not collecting the rates quicker. As it was he thought they would find some difficulty in getting in next year’s. If it had been forced at the first very few, if any, he thought would have objected to pay. Mr Battenbury was very sorry to sec the motion on the paper, and all the mover had proposed to substitute in lieu of the rate was that the amount be taken out of the land fund, which he thought had already too many claims, and he considered the Board had done very well for the short time it had been in existence, Before it was instituted the schoolmasters were ill paid and the schools inefficient, but now the Board was getting them into shape. By doing away with the rate' they would strike death to the system without having 1 given it a fair chance of success. Mr Mace having spoken as to the admirable manner the system worked in his district. Mr Sherwood replied at some length. On the motion being put, a division was called for. which resulted as follows : —Ayes. 3; Messrs Elliot, Brown, and Sherwood. Noes, 12 : Messrs Kelly, Standish, Peacock, Battenbury, Callaghan, Hughs. McGuire, Macc. Connett, Andrews, Upjohn, and Symc, The motion was therefore lost. PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE EDUCATION ORDINANCE. Mr Peacock moved—“ That a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent requesting him to send down.a bill to repeal clause 22 in the Educational Ordinance, and that clause 5 for the Patea district be amended.” His reasons for wishing this were because School Committees seemed to clash with the Patea Board; and, if they could bo abolished ahd the Board increased, to seven members, he thought the Ordinance would work much bettor in their district.— Mr Sherwood seconded the resolution, which was also supported by Mr McGuire;—-Mr Standish opposed that portion of the motion which referred to the repeal of the clause relating to School Committees, for hje l cons sidcrcd that, as districts increased, they would be found to be of great use.—Mr Brown moved, as an amendment—“ That a bill be sent down to amend the Education Ordi* nance,” as he wished to amend the clause relative to the election of members of the Board.—Mr Upjohn seconded the amendment ; after which Mr Callaghan moved the adjournment of the debate. SCAB BILL. Mr Kelly moved the second reading of the “Scab Ordinance, 1866, Amendment Bill, 1875.” The object of the Bill was to allow sheep to be imported into this province free, whereas at present some 9d. per head had to be paid.—Mr Elliot seconded. The Bill was read a third time, and passed. ..