THE COAL TRADE.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 17693, 2 August 1919, Page 10

THE COAL TRADE.

CONFERENCE OPENED IN • WELLINGTON. MEANING OF "TERMINAI TION OF WAlt." LENGTHY PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION. (Put United Fssaa Association.) 1 . WEMJNGTON, August 1. ■ Considerable interest is being taken in the conference which opened in Wellington to-day for tho purpose of considering tho now demands which were recently made by ytha Miners' Federation upon tho Coal Mine Owners' Association. i! ; Tho proposals include the abolition of contract system; that miners shall bo paid £1 daily; truckers, horse drivers, and men in charge of rope road, 17s 6d: that the hours of work shall be seven from bank to bank imm<xuately, and on January 1, 1921, the hours shall be reduced to six from bank to bank; pay to be weekly, every Friday . afternoon; every Saturday to be an idle day; no coal to be hewed, other than on ■ the day shift; tho hours of work in wet ' places to be five from bank to bank; no •trucking to be done' by miners; no more ''than one shift to bo dono in 24 hours; the company to provide freo light, tools, and i house coal to all workers; all workers shall be granted a fortnight's holiday on full pay in each year, the samo to be from December 23 to January 5 (inclusive); Easter holidays to be from Good Friday to ■Easter Tuesday (inclusive); other holidays .to be May Day and Labour Day. present at the conference were:— Employers' delegates: Sir George Clifford, the Hon. E. W. Alison (Taupiri Coal .Mines), Messrs W. Pryor (secretary New ■Zealand Coalowners' Association), W. A. ;H°well (Westport Coal Company, Ltd.). J. "Bishop (Taupiri Coal Mines), E. S. Wight (Pukemiro Company), W. Reese (WestportStoctton), Colonel W. D. Holgato (Northern ; Coal Company), Messrs J. D. Douglas (Hikuranjri Coal Company), F. Redipath (Mount Torless Company), C. S. Owen " (New Zealand Coal and Oil Company). W. Carson (New Zealand Coal and Oil Company), W. J. Ralph (Taupiri Company), W. Leitch (Meant Torless Company), J. C. Brown (Westport Coal Company), W. Grove (Wesbport-Stockton), G. R. Cheese:man (Taiatu Coal Company), A. F. MTCellar .(Blackball Coal Company), G. Christie (Green Island Mines), G. Townsend (West-port-Stockton), J. A. C. Bayne (Paparoa sOoal Company), T. S. Weston (Paparoa Coal .Company), J. Thompson (Waipa Coal Company), T. O. Bishop (State Coal Mines). The miners' delegates were: Messrs •James M"Bride A-. ToaeJand (Buller), J. Roberts (Alliance of La'Tiour), P. OTtcrarke (president), J. Arbuokle (secretary), J. O'Brien (Northern District), F. Niven (Southern District), R. Spencer (Grey), A. Pipe (Waihi). Sir George Clifford waa elected chairman of the conference. - There was a long discussion regarding the admission of press representatives to wie conference, the coal-owners insisting 'that the press should be present, and the ; federation delegates strongly objecting. "Eventually tho_ federation delegates adjourned to consider the matter, and on returning to the room tbsy announced that ' the coal question was so important that they had decided to agre© to the admission of the press, provided that in addition to the representatives of the three daily papers present, who were invited by Mr Pryor (secretary of the Employers' Federation), other Wellington journals (Truth, the Maori„3and Worker, the Railway Review, etc.) should bo invited. Then tlrere was a prospect of a further deadlock, as neither Mr •Pryor nor Mr Arbuckle (federation secre.tary) would undertake to communicate with tho. papers referred to. j, The chairman volunteered to have these 'communications sent out, and the conference ; adjourned to allow of this being done. . When the proceedings commenced in the 'afternoon Mr Alison stated that before the .question of the federation's demands was considered. the coal mine owners had decided to raise tho question as to why fresh demands were now being made, seeing that the existing agreements did not expire until six months after the termination of tho war. They had, in fact, about another six months yet to run. '_ Mr O'Rourke 0 f the federation), in reply, said it was only necessary for him to state _ that, so far as the rank and file of tho Miners' Federation were concerned, they considered that the agreement had expired six months after the signing of tho armistice. Mr Alison then read the result of tho .previous conference between the owners and the federation, and argued that it was evident that the term of the existing agreements had not expired. The mine owners submitted that the federation must that agreements must be observed for the period for which they were made.

Discussion continued for some time on the meaning of the phrase "termination of the war," -Hie corners contending that it meant -when the peace terms were accepted by Germany, and the miners'representatives that hostilities actually terminated with the signing of the armistice. The_ Chairman (Sir George Clifford) said the difficulty was_ purely a legal one, and it; would be a fair compromise to refer it to the Solicitor-general. Mir Roberts saad the federation would not agree to taking a legal opinion. If it was intended that the agreement should exist until six months after the declaration of peace, why did it not state so? .. The Chairman said the question would have to be considered later, and then called on the federation to submit its proposals. : ';iMr O'Rourke ftated that the crux of the .Situation lay in the abolition of the contract system and a reduction of hours. They would be the two knotty problems which would have to be surmounted. The Reason why New; Zealand found itself in such a bad position regarding coal was because of the bad nature of the conditions of employment at the mines. The miners wanted good conditions, both inside and outside the mines, but would not concern themselves about the outside until they saw what steps- the Governrhent intended til take. They must improve the conditions for the men who went down to the bowels of. the earth to hew coal. They wora entitled to special consideration. The demand for £1 a day was in consonance with the Government Statistician's report that that sum was now only equal to 12s per day.' The rank and file were almost unanimously decided against the contract or speeding-up system, because serious accidents were attributed to it. In reply, Mr Alison made a lengthy statement denying "that the conditions in the mines were bad, and quoting the Board of Trade report m support. If the coal owners agreed to the abolition of the contract system they would agree to anything. "Were they to understand that under tho wage system the miners were not going to work as hard as before? Ho concluded with, the following statement: —'The most careful and serious consideration has been given to the whole portion, and the Coal Mine Owners' Association, realising its duty to <«3 members aiid to the State generally, has definitely, decided that, whatever may be the consequences, the principal demands cannot be acceded to, or even discussed. The demands particularly referred to are the abolition of tho contract system, the reduction of the hours of work, ooal hawing on day shift, ono shift in 24 hours, payment for holidays, and payment for time lost. The employers are not prepared to proceed further with the. conference unless the abovo.-mentionod demands are eliminated from the federation's claims. The employers regret to think that they are compelled to adopt this attitude, but, knowing as they do, the serious, far-reaching, and disastrous effect which the granting of these demands would have upon, tie country, they feel it _ is _ dearly their duty to adopt the course indicated." Mr Arbucklo asked if Mr Alison could name any mine in which tho daily average wage was as high as ,£1 5s to £1 10s. ' Tho averago was only 24s 7d, and that was per working day. The miners of New Zealand had produced a world's record in output, and . for this {hoy received tho handsome wage of £5 15s per week. Wore the miners tho only people in the country who wero not to bo assured of a living wage? The miner bad to go down into the mine, and unless everything was favourable f<br him he oould not work, and if he did not work ho- did not get paid. Breakages and stoppages often occurred, and while they wore being repaired tho miner got no pay. Before tho war tho men want to the mines because there were more men than there were jobs in tho country, arid they were forced by economic necessity to go into the rp' les for a Irving. _ Had work boon avail- • i-jie outside the mines there never would have been a mine in the country fully maimed. To-day tho men had an opportunity to get work awwy from tho mines, and they wero taking it. Since tho signing of the araristice 144- man had left tho State

mine. If tho contract system were abolished tho minor would givo a reasonable day's work, as men in other occupations did. In England tho reduction of hours had led to s)n increase of 6s in tho price of coal. It was contended the miners' proposals would increase tho cost of coal by lis Id at tho pit mouth, or 17s 3d if tho working day were reduced to six hours. According to the report of tho Board of Trade, a minor hewed 7.8 tons per day—say eight tons. Iho cost of hewing that coal was alxmt 3s 2d a ton. If tho miner produced only half that amount under the wago system tho cost would be increased only 3s 2d per ton. Ho thought there was no need for alarm as to tho amount of coal that Yroukl be won under tho day wage system. He considered the average miner would do about the samo amount of work under that system as he was doing to-day. Ho said ah tho high wages were made on pillars m some of the mines, and in tlio.se mines none but tho best of men were allowed to work on the pillars. The high averages made by these strong young men were being used to inflate tho daily average for all the miners of the country. Mr Roberts said ho was at a floss to know how Mr Alison had arrived at his marvellous figures. Ho declaxod the statement of Mr Alison had been unfair. Ho was not. a practical miner, but his common senso taught him that a reduction of one hour per any in the working timo would not increase tho cost of production by 14s a ton. "The point we want-to make clear to the pooplo of New Zealand," he sakl, "is that we are absolutely anxious to supply New Zealand with coal, but the only way in which New Zealand oan bo supplied with coal is by making tho mining conditions of New Zealand such that they will attract labour to the mines." Mr Alison's statement was not going to have the effect of drawing labour to the mines. The men would bo packing- up their swags at the mines when they read it. They would at onoe assume that trouble,, was coming in Wellington. Boforo the war ho paid £2 a ton for coal. Now the price was- about £3 10s per ton, and the coal was difficult to obtain. Mr Alison was trying to make out that tho miners wore trying to restrict the coal supply still more. The miners at present were leaving the mines to get other work. Mr Alison's statement would go no distanco towards a settlement of tho dispute, but whether that conference settled tho dispute or not, it woidd have to bs settled. The people of New Zealand would demand a settlement of it. He was prepared to say that coal could be produced under such conditions in New_ Zealand that there 'would be an increase in the coal supply. He did not agree that a reduction of hours would mean a decrease in its production. Ho denied that the miners wero out to exploit tho public. As a matter of fact, the mineowners had stood by the public so well in the past three winters th.it they wer.s the best-hated people South of the Line. But for the interference of the Government tho public would have been paying much more for their coal. The delegates representing tha miners knew that the conditions in vogue wi?ro not good. Ho represented fully 40,000 workers, and these workers were with the miners in this demand. The people of New Zealand were willing to pay enough for coal to give the miner good conditions. What was being asked now was reasonable and fair. Tho conditions were the samo as before the war, but the social system was changing. Things that did very well years ago would not-do to-day. As a matter of fact, no troubles had occurred in the mines among the day wages men. The pace of working in the mines under tlie contract system was such that men could foot stay at it after they readied 45 years of age. The serious shortage of coal in New Zealand was due to the shortage of miners, and more men would still leave tho industry unless the conditions were improved. Mr Weston asked Mr O'Rourko whether ha anticipated that the output per man would decrease when the contract system was abolished.

Mr O'Rourke said h& was not a prophet, but ho thought if the miners were properly orga,nised and worked in a systematic fashion the production of coal would not decrease, but would increase.

Mr O'Brien said they asked the public to take into consideration that out of the £3 10s per ton which they were paying for coal the miner received 2s 6d for hewing it and the trucker got Id per ton for trucking it & chain. He was suro that- if a minimum wage was instituted the effect would be to bring about a -reduction in hours, which was necessary on account of the unnaturalness of the occupation. Mr Alison said the miners received a great deal more than 2s 6d per ton for getting the coal in the Taupiri mine. He was accounted a very poor miner who did not earn £1 5s a day. There were men who earned 35s to 40s a day. The average, he thought, was from 23s to 24s a day. The mine-owners had no desire to pay less than a fair wage to the miners. Mr Arbuckle had said the miners would produce more under the wage system than they did to-day. A few years ago they had had an experience < of the minimum wage at the Taupiri mines. It was suggested by the management at the time the arrangement was made that in a short time a lot of men would be working on these places where the pay was made up to a minimum. In the first year the amount paid for "make up" pay was £250, next year £850, and in the third year £1350. At Kiripaki the daily wage system had been tried recently, and the difference made had been an incpsase in the hewing cost of coal of 8s lid per ton. Colonel Holgate said: there had been a decrease of 30.7 per cent under the daily wage system as compared with the contract system. The difference in the cost of production Avas 7s lid per ton, and during last month the increase was 8s 4d per ton. Mr Alison contended that if there was to bo a flat wage of £1 a day the miner who had beeni working liard and earning 35s' a day would reduce his output as soon as he found he could not make more than the man who, under the contract system, could not make more than 15s a day. It had bsen said that tho mine-owners were responsible for tho shortage of coal. In what respect were they responsible? Tho ooal was there in quantity. There was ample development of the mines, but the men. could not be obtained to win it. He denied that the causes had anything to do with bad conditions. The conditions in the Now Zealand mines were exceptionally good. There was absolutely no comparison possible between Great . Britain, where the seams were 6mall, and New Zealand with its great depth seams. In mines here the mine-owners were prepared to give consideration to every reasonable demand that might be made by the minors for the improvement of their conditions, but they could not agree to conditions sought to be imposed on them by the federation, by which conditions the production of coal would be enormously decreasel and the cost increased.

Mr Mac Donald (the Minister of Mines) said he had been so concerned about the coal position for the past four years that he had tried his best to arrange matters so that there would be no strikes and no stop-work meetings, and, if possible, no discontent. As _to the conditions in tho mining townships he was prepared to say they were not good, and he had made certain suggestions to the miners by which tlwy could assist the Government through housing committees to improvo matters. There could be no doubt that the position in Xow Zealand was very grave. a.nd industries must suffer if the concessions wero given.

Mr 0 Rourke disputed the statement that the federation had kept the Australian rmnera away. All the federation did was to give information as to tho position. After some more remarks on questions bafore the conference he said: "The only conclusion we can come to is that you people are hostile. If that is so then Wo accept your challenge, and will go for you. If you aro not hostile then get down to business."

Mr Alison thanked the Minister for his address. He asked hhn whether, as a man, he was prepared to agree to the main d<> mands of the federation. If the Goviprnment was in favour of those demands then tho coal-owners would be freed from the responsibility of protecting the people from the extravagant demands which had been marie; _ and the responsibility "for the very largo increase that, would be rwcessary in tho prices of coal would bo on tho Government. Mr Roberts said it would not l>e fair for the. Minister to take sides in this matter in the'way he was asked to do. Tho chairman suggested that tho meeting should adjourn until to-morrow. STATE CONTROL OF COLLIERIES. EXPLANATION BY MR HOLLAND. (Pbb United Peess Association.) WELLINGTON, August 1. Mr Holland, M.P., takes exception to tho statement by tho Acting Chairman of tiio Board of Trade (Mr W. G. M'Donald) in the course of his reply to the Woolston Borough Council to tho efPact that he (Mr Holland) had suggested that tho other industries of tho country should bo taxed to provide funds to purchase the privatelyowned conl mines. Mr Holland says tho statement is incorrect. He states: "Immediately following tho deputation which conveyed to Sir James Allen tho unanimous djoisions of tho two Labour conferences in condemnation of tho board's scheme the acting chairman furnished tho prees

with a criticism of the conference's attitude, and to this criticism I replied in tho livening Post of July 18. Nowhere in my speech to tho Minister, nor yet in my reply to the acting ohairman of tho board, can there be found any suggestion that the other industries of tho country should bo taxed to provide funds. On the contrary, after advocating that tho Stato should take over the min?ts that are worth while, and that tho industry should bo controlled by a board on which the miners would lie adequately represented, I pointed out that the need to borrow money for tho purchase of the mince disappeared before the fact that New Zealand had at the end of tho last financial year a surplus of £15,000.000. I furnished figures showing that probably not more than £1,000,000 would Lr? needed to purchase such mines as have a reasonable length of life, and concluded that it would surely be absurd to talk about tho need to borrow money at high rates of interest with 15 times tho amount required in tho Government coffers. I also furnished figures in connection with the Stato mines, showing how profitable tho investment of State coal mining had proved despite tho charges which had been loaded up against tho State mines in favour of the Railway Department, the heavy interest charges, and other handicaps. How Mr M'Donald found it possible to read into my statement a suggestion that the other industries of tho country should bo taxed to provide funds is for him to explain.