OTAGO PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 149, 8 May 1862, Page 4

OTAGO PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

AVedsesdav, Ttu Hay, 18G2. --. The SPEAKER took li,e Chair at twenty fiw-nuti-s after four o'clock, and read the usual fonij of prayer. ■ ■ * SIISCTES. The Ci.ci:k of Council real the miiuitc3 of lust sitting, ■which were confirmed. HAItBOIL LEASING OIIUIX-VNCC. Mr. M'GLASIIAX laid on the table a bill to authorise the leasing of :i portion of the land held by the Superintendent in trust for the improvement of the harbour of Otago. '>h<; Biil was received, read .1 first time, ordered lo bu printed, and the second reading made an order of the day for to-morrow, (tiiis day.) J.ANI) SOW>. Mr. TODD, according to notice given yesterday, moved—" That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to cause to be prepared, and laid on Iho - table at the ensuing Session of Council, a, tabular statement in the form of that which appeared in the last Gazelle, indicating the amount of land sold monthly in the different townships and hundreds, since the Ist day of January, 1861, wlien the Northern Hundreds were open for sale. Mr. MARTIN seconded the motion. Question put and carried. Message, No. 3. Mr. CAHGILL said the repoil which he gave notice of moving that the House take into consideration had gone into the hands of the printer, and had not yet come in. It would be inconvenient to proceed lo the discussion of the subject until the printed report was placed in the possession of hon. members. Mr. DICK suggested that the House pass on to the first order of the day, until the report in question was brought up. IIARUOR LOAN Uir.L. Upon the first order of the day being brought up,—"Harbour Loan Bill to be read a third time," — Mr. -.M'GLASHAN moved that .the same be re-committed, to enable him to make a few amendments. . The bill was accordingly re-committed, and Mr. Hepburn not being present.Mr. REYNOLDS was voted into the Chair pro. tern. In clause 6, the section was altered to : Every such debenture shall biar interest after a rate to be therein specified not exceeding eight pounds per centum per annum, &c. In, clause 9, the section was altered to : In the construction of this Ordinance the terms Provincial Treasurer and Provincial ■; Accountant shall mean the Treasurer and the Accouutant of the said Province or the persons lawfully acting in these capacities respectively. In the schedule at the end of Bill; the word "eight" in the third line was struck out. V The House then resumed and the Chairman re- . ported progress: when the amendments adopted in committee were reported to the House and ■ .affirmed. - ! The Bill was then read a third time and passed. PUBLIC BUILDINGS LOAN BILL. Mr. M'GLASHAN brought up the'second order of the day : —" Public Buildings Loan Bill to be read a second time." The .House having resolved itself into committee, Mr. HEPBUItN, who had entered and ro sumed his seat, took the chair. Mr. M'GLASIIAN re iterated his former assertion, that this Bill had already received the sanction of the General Government. The Bill was then read a second time, and tho third reading made an order of the day for tomorrow (this day). Message No. 12. The .following Message was brought in and read: — . - Superintendent's Office, /"X" * Duuedin, 7th. .May, 18(52>~" - The Superintendent recommends that provision be made for the following services : —lnspectors of imported sheep and dipping apparatus," £1,500; exterminating tliistles, £1,50U; jetty at Waikouiti, £500; ■ pound at Norfh Duncdin, £100. _ Mr. DICK moved that the above Message bo taken into consideration in Committee of Supply. Question jjut and carried. SUPPLY. The House having resolved itself into Committee of Supply, on the motion of the PROVINCIAL TREASURER, the above-mentioned 'items of appropriation were affirmed. Mr. DICK then rose, and said that these being the last items on the Estimates, he would move .thfit the Chairman report progress. • Question put and carried. • House resumed. There'being-no further business on tho notice paper, and the Government printer not having ■ brought up.the report of tha Select Committee upon Message No. 3, Mr. DICK, at 25 minutes after five, moved nn adjournment of the House for a quarter of an hour, Mr. REYNOLDS seconded. Question put and carried. The House then adjourned until 20 minutes before six o'clock. Upon the House resuming, the council paper having been brought up by the Government printer during, the interim, Mr. CARGILL, pursuant to- notice, rose to move :—"That the House take into consideration the report of the Select Committee to consider and report upon Message No. 3, from his Honor the Superintendent.'' Mr. DICK seconded the motion. The following is the report referred to by tho hoi), member for the Western District, which ho read to the House:— lleport of Select Committee of Provincial Council upon messagu No. 3, from his Honor the Superintendent. Your Committee have carefully considered the subjects of his Honor the Superintendent's Message, No. '&, and have (..ikon a variety of evidence bearing upon those subjects, and have now to report— I. On the Subject or liTMioiiAiiox —His Honor bupgosts the abandonment of the system of assisted passes liuharto in use, except to a limited extent upon the guarantee of responsible parties in' the colony and the adoption, or, as his Honor has more fully explainedin hi.s evidence to your committee, the siibsti- ' tution in the main, as the means of bringing iv population, of tlie " special settlement system," to the system adopted in the Province of Auckland, and by which free grants of land would lie given to all qualified immigrants paying their own passage to the Colony, subject ±.i certain conditions of resinencc—such grants being; given upqn produotjon of LaiulOrdcro issupd by agents appointed for the purpose in various parts of tho United Kingdom. A$ this proposal involves a radical eliFinse' in the svliolpriuciiiles and system of immigration under the encouragement and assistance of. Government, your Committee have" directed their inquiry—first, to the alleged defects in the system heretofore in use ; and secondly, to the merits of the system proposed to be substituted. In reference to the system heretofore in use, there appears to be no question that the im-. migrant? from the home country under it have proved on the whole of a highly satisfactory character ; that the business of the home agency has been carefullyand efficiently performed; and that as maiiy morte similar immigrants may be procured as the funds pro; vided will admit of. On the other hand, it. is urge 4 as an objection, mid in the opinion of liis Honor, nr. insuperable and filial objection, to that system, that there is great difficulty in obtuiniiig payment of the money advanced, and that serious evils must result from the indebtedness of a large body of people to the Government. It nppenrs from the statement furnished by the Immigration Agent, that these payments are greatly in. arrear, and it is probable that a considerable amount may bo wholly lost, in ebnse-j^| quence of the. death or departure from tho colony of^^ the indebted parties. Apart from Mich, cases, there *? does not appear reason to apprehend a serious ultimate loss of public;' money by non-payment; but there does seem to be some misunderstanding an to tha necessity for punctuality in meeting these engagements. It would surely be an aspersion of the character of these men to assume that there is any wish or intention to repudiate their obligations. Your Committee are of opinion tbat such a state of matters might be in a great measure avoided in future contracts by a more clear definition of the engagement at the time of entering upon it, and by more prompt enforcement at the due date. They would recommend the adoption of a form of promissory note, having the date of maturity distinctly embodied, in lieu of the present somewhat curiously- constructed accepted Bill of Exchange, "on demand," with acoompanying promise of postponement. , Under any arrangement, there will probably be a certain, per-ceritage of loss ot public money by non-payment of bills, hut beyond that your Committee do not apprehend any r^wa-

sequences from the existence of such Bill.-;, provided j the obligations thuy represent .are fully a1 id distinctly set fortli and promptly enforced, more tluiu from other obligations of payment to Government for taxes, &c. Serious consequences, will, however, certainly ensue from any vagueness admitted in the obligation. In refewiuefri the proposed system of Special Settlements and Free Grants of Laud, your Committee have-ill the first )jlace to remark that its adoption involves the complete abandonment of the principles ■upun which assisted immigration has heretofore been '■•■ conducted, the most prominent of which are —First, to avoid bringing out people "in forma panperis," but simply to make a temporary advance, which can be availed of without compromise of independence ami self-respect. Secondly, to confine such assistance to such persons as must of necessity on arrival go into the labor market, and by that means bestow a benefit upon the community, which goes as a return for the benefit obtained in an asoistwl passage. Your Committee fiud further objections to tho proposed system, as follows : —That under it many persons would be induced to come from the homo country under an erroneous estimate of the value of a piece of laud based upon their experience there, who would suffer great disappointment and exhibit discontent on finding that in the colony such a piose of land was valueless tmtil capital and colonial experience hacl been acquired. That for a superior clasrs of immigrants, possessing capital and agricultural skill, such an inducement is unnecessary, as it would suffice for their purpose that land miitht be purchased at a cheap rate, while the extent o"f such grants would be altogether insufficient for their purpose ; that men landing from shipboard with laud orders, would be apt to squat at once upon their sections of land, and thus to enter upon a life of indolence and poverty, which _ would laave them after a year or two in a worse position than if they had at once entered the labor market and so acquired the aptitude as well as the ' means for settling; that the mere bestowal of a small piece of land would 'not suffice to fix in the ■ Colony persons who, from other considerations, might desire to move away, while to the man who possessed on arrival, or who subsequently acquired the means and aptitude for settling as a small farmer, the possesssion of a piece of laud upon such a tenure as proposed under the Free Grant System would be of no immediate value, as it would bo mere folly for him to invest his all upon a property which might become forfeited by an unforseen necessity if absenting himself from the Colony, and which in case of need he could neither sell or raise money upon ; that in appointing agents in various parts of % the home country the advantages of the present ajency, which in poiat of efficiency is second to none in the United Kingdom, would be lost, and it would bo impossible to obtain the same careful selection emigrants, while there would be the danger, or rather the certainty, of obtaining a large proportion of an inferior class, such as would be destructive of the character hitherto maintained by this settlement j-tliat in Auckland, the only part of A rew Zealand where the free grant system has been tried, its success ia very questionable, while in the opinion of Mr. Forsaith, a colonist, of lone; experience in Auckland, the result has been confirmatory of the views of your Committee above expressed : and, finally, that in the opinion of your committee the introduction of such a system would be unsuited to this Province, and distasteful to. the people. Apart from nil these considerations, there is yet another which in the" humble judgment of your Committee is of itself a fatal objection to the scheme, namely, that there is no power to make grants of the land of this Province. It could only be carried out by the purchase on the part of the Provincial Government of blocks of land in trust for special settlements, a proceeding which would involve the voting of large sums. of money by the Council, and the locking uj>, for an indefinite period, of some of the finest agricultural lands, Reverting to the system of immigration heretofore in use,1 your Committee-are of opinion that it must for the present be continued, regard being had to the suggestions for securing the more punctual payment of money advanced. They cannot recommend (except under the pressure of a felt exigency in the caoe of females) any departure from' that system in the direction of free passages, _ which they considered would be a. change in the wrong direction. The interference of Government with immigration crtn ol ,jy foe regarded as- a temporary expedient, for setting in motiou the stream which in due time will acquire sufficient force to flow on without assistance, The time has not yet arrived for leaving it to its own course, and direct interf'erenee is Btjll' necessary, particularly in obtaining a supply of killed shepherds and agricultural laborers. Assisted U^.gpasshges under guarantee of friends in the colony '•""' hould be freely encouraged, as tending" to promote that self-actiou by. which alone immigration can eventually .proceed upon a scale proportioned to a greatly increased population. Well selected parties, assisted out by Government, in the cavlv stages of the settlement, will continue to draw out from the old country followers of like character from among their relatives and friends. , )3very_ facility should at the same time be given to parties in the_ colony depositing money for payment of passages of friends, and also by the Home Agents to parties paying their own passages, by affording the assistance of the agency in procuring passages at minimum rates in the chartered ships or otherwise, Government paying ail agency charges in respect of duly qualified parties, it being very obiectionable that persons paying their own passages should be placed at a disadvantage as compared with assisted passengers. On the other hand, it would probably condueo to a more prompt payment of immigrants' bills, and would also render the system more' fair in its application, if these bills were made to bear interest until paid. 11. On the subject of the regulations for sale of lnnd. That the practical working of the existing regulations has for some time past been unsatisfactory is abundantly evident, and your Committee feel that this'subject involves a question which U exceedingly diffcult of solution j the question being haw to frame the'regulations sons to afford free facilities for the acquisition of land for bona fide occuption and improvement ; and at the snme.time to prevent the land being purchased in large bloi'ks for speculation by a class of persons who would come in as middlemen between the Government and intending cultivator.*, and wim would thereby obtain large profits at the cost of the class which it is the object of the Government to encoumge, aud at the snmo time shut up extensive tracts of land from immediate occupation. This difficulty is Increased >Liy tha circumstance that the laid is sold nt a price which really bears only a small proportion to its present value, and which will certain iy be returned may fold within a few yeare to any piuvhnters of well selected lots who .are content to make the investment and letit lie bjv It is clear that them are only two-methods by which the difficulty may be met. The first ia by enforcing upon purchasers of agricultural land the condition of bona fide occupation and improvement. In this view it has been proposed to adi a penalty to the obligation. This method is most fair in principle, but practically it would be difficult of" application. With the approaching maturity of the obligation there would be renewed agitation by a numerous. and powerful class to get rid of it. The assessment of improvement would also be a probable cause of-contention, and might open the door to corruption. • The second method is by obtaining in all eases the full value of the land froai the purchaser, so that there would be no inducement for speculators. This is manifestly impracticable. Some nearer approach thereto only would be accomplished by raising the price, but it would bo impossible to accommodate the price to the varying quulitigs of land, and to raise the price to a point which would represent the average prospective value would bo to withdraw that advantage of cheap land which is the principal inducement to settlement. It appears, however, to your Committee worthy of consideration whether the • time mr,y not have arrived for making some advance upon the present fixed price of 20s. per acre. The suggestion in his Honor's message " v/ith res : . pect to that class which has already settled among us, „ and which is debarred from obtaining land except at a hish rate" —'" that every settler within a Hundred should bo allowed t"o purchase as far as 100 acres, at ths price of £1 per acre, on condition of continued residence, as in the case of Land Order Immigrants," —is apparently dependent upon the adoption of the Free . Grant • System, and -it may not, there.; forp, be necessary to discuss it at length. Your'computtcp would, however, remark, that such a concespi'pn would have the immediate effect'of taking out of the market a very large quantity of the best agricultural lauds, and bestowing it 'upon persons, the majority of whom would not. require it, and would make no use of it. Looking to the limited extent of agricultural lands, such a proceeding would be open to great objections. . The recommendation of His Honor, that the Go- "^^^ vernment be authorised to extinguish by a-money, """ payment the title to certain non-agricultural lands outside Hundreds, is also in a measure dependent upon the adoption of the Free Grant System. Your Committee would remark upon this recommendation, that there do not appear to be any'lands' of the description referred to open for purchase by the Government, and the recommendation would, therefore, appear to be unnecessary. Furthermore, your Committee would deprecate the adoption of any proceedings which would have the effect of unnecessarily unsettling the existing interests " in connexion with non-agricultural lands now under lease, before the expiry of the current leases. E. 13. Cakgill, • Chairman of Committee. Dune-Jin, Gth May, 1802. Thu lion, mover (Mr. CARGILL) expressed his regret that' the report had not been placed in the hands of lion. members^^iitjearJ*^*3'^^

had investigated tho objections made, to tho present system, aud'had carefully -reviored the principles of tho method proposed'to be introduced in lieu of it.. It inu>t, however, be a serious consideration lor the House to make any ehangfi in the present system ; for he thought it should be in all cases held as a bounden duty to proceed with great caution in throwing aside a system wlii'-h had been long in existence, and taking up one of which the House had no experience. The colony was now in a different position to wlsat it occupied in former years, nlthough, of course, it was impossible to find a system to which no objection could be raised. The leading objection ssemed to be the indebtedness of the people to tha»Government for the advance of their passages. It appeared to him that this difficulty had been made more of than was necessary :as lie (the lion, member) could not see that it should be considered a mischievous thing that people should be required to return jroiiey paid to parties in advance of their passages ; and he apprehended that the difficulty, if any existed, could only be ascribed to a certain degree of vagueness in the arrangements with the emigrant;;. It was very much to be regretted that such a slate of things had existed, but the lion. member fuliyconcurred in the view that measures should be token to convince those who undertook an obligation, that they must meet it peremptorily and faithfully. (Hear, hear.) It did not appear to the lion, member to be prudent or wise to abandon the plan of bringing out emigrants. .An 'lgency of great value had been established in Great Britain, and the members of that agency have expressed themselves as being fully prepared to go on sending out people to the colony. He was not prepared, altogether, to blame the Government ibr having suspended immigration on the breaking out of the gold fields. The lion, member would at once say that his own views at the time were that the action of the Government on that occasion was a mistake, because he was of opinion that the influx of a large number of people from Australia should not have constituted a reason for arresting home emigration. lie pre-1 furred the immigration from .England; or the United Kingdom, to that which had set in from Australia; although there was no doubt that the country had received, and would continue to receive, a large accession to its population by the influx of so many from Australia. As respected the recommendation for continuing the assistance of Government, in bringing out emigrants, of'course this was a subject on which there might be a great diversity of opinion, and tho committee had come to the conclusion that safety lay in not a too sudden departure from thu. system which had been found hitherto to work with satisfaction ; but no government scheme of immigration should be considered as one of perpetuity ; the intention rather should be to start and encourage a plan based upon sound principles. The lion, member conceived that every encouragement should be {riven to personsguaranteeing passages to their friends from home.It'had been said that persons of very questionable character had been brought oat in virtue of these guarantees, hut he believed that the alleged evils had been greatly magnified. The lion, member considered it would be matter of regret to see immigration confined to people of a certain age. and position in life, and he regarded it as desirable that tho colony should possess a class of people occupying a good position in society. He would give, every encouragement to colonists to introduce their friends from the United Kingdom. The committee had reported that they considered any departure from the free passage would be a mistake, and iie considered that a departure from the present system,in the direction of free passages would be a move in a wrong direction.altogether. The effort of government should go the other way, and establish a system of immigration pro* grossing by its own vitality. With regard to female immigration, it had been ascertained that in endeavoring to obtain a supply of that cla.ss of persons, the colony had come into competition with its neighbors, who were placing liberal means in the hands of their agents for the very same, purpose., He believed that the neighboring colonies had made arrangements with their friends, aridagents in England, to bring out respectable females. As to the home ageucy, he had received very strong testirrfony as to the efficient manner in which they had performed their duties.— He regretted to learn that the government had thought it necessary to reduce the' staff, and to dismiss Mr. Currie, who was specially in charge of the Emigration department. He believed that bo long as the Government found it necessary to avail themselves of the service of that agency, they were deserving of cv ry encouragement, as having most conscientiously performed their duty. (Hear, hear, from Mr. .Reynolds,) He now came to the-subject of. the regulations for the sale of laud. The truth was that, in this respect, the committee were dealing with a property v.hich was very rapidly increasing iv value. The present regulation, imposing the obligation of cultivation before obtaining a Crown grant, .had no doubt been the means of preserving much of the lands of this province. One thing had made itself apparent to the committee, and that was the cheapness of the land. The whole extent of agricultural land sold was not so great as was at one time supposed, and the country was not in a condition to hold out inducements to people to got land at 20s an acre. In connection with this subject, it might be as well to notice the proposal of his Honor the Superintendent to bring in persons, and settle the:n on parcels of land, to be guaranteed to them here; bur, apart from all the objections to this system, which might he founded upon either opinion or theory, he apprehended that the fact of the lauds of this province being under mortgage for the New Zealand Company's debt, would stand as an insuperable obstacle- to giving them away. Such a system as that propounded by his Honor could only be carried out by acquiring blocks of land on trust to be set aside for such a purpose, and such blocks of land would be required to be very great in extent. As to the carrying out of the land regulations, for Ms own part, the lion, member thought that a great deal would depend on the discretion exercised by the Gnvernment, in bringing the lands forward for sale, and he conceived that the necessity would be recognised more and more for the Government using very grave discretion in this case.' With these remarks, he would move the resolution standing upon the notice paper in his name." Mr. REYNOLDS had very great satisfaction in seconding the adoption of the Report; although this was the first opportunity he had had of seeing it. He was glad to find that the Committee had applied themselves so vigorously to the subject, and taken up the whole matter. He agreed almost entirely with the Report. There was one subject on which ho might, perhaps, bo permitted to offer some explanation. He would mention that, at home, the whole of the emigrants, when they accepted the bills, had a note given to them of the time at which those bills would become due. There was no doubt that the manner in. which the bills were drawn was very unsatisfactory ; and, when he was at home, he urged this very point, not only with the agents, but also with the immigration agents. But the law of Scotland seemed to be different from his notions" of law ; and'the plan-adopted was the one now made use of. The lion, member was giad to.find that he was likely to be supported in the House with regard tofemale immigration.. He remembered that, about three years'ago, -h,Q introduced the questiqn, but could hot get even a seconder; and both tho newspapers of that day denounced him us a madman, for recommending that female immigration should be encouraged, and inducements held out to married men with large families of duughtcrs, to come out to the colony.. He held that scheme to be the only possible plan for bringing out female immigrants at the present time. No respectable females would leave their native country to come out here unprotected ; the best class would invariably come under the protection of their own families, or under the guardianship of a near relative, or friend. With regard to the Home agency, he considered it to be a most efficient one, and the best that could, by any possibility, be appointed ; and he would inform the House that Mr. Currie had been offered no less than three appointments, if he would abandon his present office. One of these was in connection with Victoria, and one with South Australia, and another was with Tasmania. In mentioning this fact, he considered it was very much to be regretted that this province had lost the services of such a man as Mr. Currie, as he was the most energetic person that could be found for such a purpose. The hon. member could refer ■"••—i' nnri John. Cargill. all oi

whom had been at home; and could bear corroborative testimony to his statement, tliat Mr. Cunie hud acted in a manner in which very few* people could have been found to have acted in a similar capacity. The: lion, member approved' of the principle of .bringing out the friends of old colonists, by the system of assisted immigration. A man of the name of Crispie, no doubt well known to several members of the House had offered to pay him msney for the purpose of 'bringing out his friends, and lie (Mr Reynolds) wished to know why the Governmentcould not act in thut wny. There was one other remark.the lion, member would make with regard' to., the Land Regulations. Ho considered ; that the obligations, were binding on every one who bouglit-lund under them. Pie had, however, been' unfortunate in that instance, as he had also been in the ease of female immigration, for he had introduced a resolution to the effect that the Superintendent should take up the question, but no notice had been vouchsafed to it. His own impression was, that these obligations were quite binding on the contracting parties ; and had it ■ cost the province £5000 or .£IO,OOO, or even, say, £15,000, to try-, the question, it would have been well for the country, in his opinion, to have had the question legally settled. He would state that, as a whole, he entirely agreed with the resolution; and he was only too happy to find that the committee had sent up to this House so .full and favorable a report. He experienced unfeigned gratification in seconding the motion, and ho trusted that every member of the House would be as ready to support it as himself. MR. GILLIES wished to know if the report was to be adopted as embodying ihe. views of the House upon his Honor's message ? The SPEAKER.—Yes. MR. GILLIES would, in that case, move an amendment: "That the House go into Committee on this report, so that there may bo a full discussion on the whole subject," The hon. member thought that the debate should be postponed to the next meeting of Council, as the printed report had only been placed in possession of the House this-'evening.' He would suggest thav the consideration of the report be deferred until tomorrow evening, at the adjourned meeting of the Council. MI!. M'GLASHAN would not detain the House with many observations, but he would wish to remark that one great argument that .-had been used for the adoption of the free grant system was, that it - had been established at Auckland. That was quite true ; but the positions of Auckland nnd of this province were totally different. The land in Auckland was now being acquired from the natives ; the land here was land which formerly belonged to the New Zealand Company, and which was now mortgaged' to the New Zealand Company in payment-of their debt, and the New Zealand Company had security for that land by Acts of the Imperial Parliament, and by the Legislature of New Zealand. The hon. member held, therefore, that the fiict here "mentioned' constituted an insuperable objection to the alienation of the wnste lands of the Crown in this province. It had been said that the free grant, system had been attended with success in. Auckland. That assertion -was extremely problematical, for it "would appear that the evidence rather preponderated against the system. The House should keep in view that the agricultural lands within this province were not very extensive; in the course of a very few years the most of them would be absorbed even under the operation of the pesent system, and, although some years ago there were great efforts made to have the land reduced in price in Australia, a proposition which was resisted by the Imperial Government, yet the argument was the extensive tracts of land, which, in that colony, were adapted for agriculture : and the whole of the squatters preferred rather to squat on the land than to purchase it at a high price. Notwithstanding -that^ argument, the government at home refused to* lower the price. If that was the case there, it was hopeless now to expect the home government to accept any plan by which gratuitous rights would be conferred upon New. Zealand. The question which pressed itself on the attention of the House, was riot so much the supply of immigrants as the securing of land to the laboring man: He should indeed be" most happy if he could devise some plan by which the land, could be secured to the laboring map, instead of bjiug monopolised by the capitalist. He thought that although the present scheme had not worked so well as could be wished, yet, if to the condition a penalty were imposed, then the object would be gained of securing the land to the laboring and industrious man. He would not say that such a scheme would be perfect ; and if the House took that objection, he would remark that no human scheme was ever perfect, and that— - The value of a thing, 'Is just what it will liring. The hon. member expressed a hope that the free grant system would not come into vogue here ; for, if so, the House could not expect that the colony -would go on flourishing as it had done. So far as the character of the immigrants was concerned, he apprehended that they could not ; secure-a.better class than what they had obtained through their agency at home, and he was liappy to bear, his testimony .to the vigour, spirit, and efficiency with ■■which its operations had been conducted. Mr. GILLIES moved that the consideration of the report on his Honor's Message, No. 3, be postponed until the adjourned meeting of the Council ; and that the said report be then considered in committee. The hon. member quite agreed with the remarks against the proposed system of free grants ; and in the sittings of that committee, in which he had the honor of a seat, it was distinctly understood that the free system in regard to grants of land should be repudiated ; •and it certainly surprised him to see a different proposition incorporated in the report. He was not present at the meeting at which the report was adopted, but, he believed it was distinctly understood by all the members of the committee that they were in favor of attaching a penalty to .the objection. The question of raising the price of land was not broughtT before them at all; and lie thought that the House would find, upon examination of the evidence, that there was Dot a single portion of the evidence bearing on the question whether this penalty could be enforced or not, or upon the -advisability of increasing the price of land. If the report 'merely condemned tlio proposed system' of free grants, ho could entirely .concur in it, but ho conceived that it involved a question of moro serious importance than was at first sight apparent. He considered that the House should be as cautious in approving of an alteration in the land regulations, as in changing the. system, of immigration. * Mr. HEPBURN seconded "the amendment. : Mr. CARGILL opposed that part of the amendment which suggested consideration of the report in committee. It was quite evident,that, unless there was something very objectionable in the report which it would be desirable to excise, that the course recommended by the hon. member for the Tokomairiro district would onlyjead to an unnecessary delay, and give rise to a large amount of-tedious talking. (A laugh.) Mr, I^ICK, in the course of a long speech, for which we regret that we have no available, space, took occasion to remark that if this report were to be considered a pledge for raising the price of land, he should be opposed to it. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Cargill.) lie argued that if there were to be no payments made in future, - those immigrants who were coining out ought not to be asked for payment. The hon.. member 6poke m eulogistic terms of the home agency, but considered that branch agencies should have been established. The last census returns showed a male population of 21,000, to 6000 females ; and, under these circumstances, he would rather sec for the next six months immigration confined to the introduction of respectable and industrious women, nc believed that the system originating with Mrs Caroline Chishohn had been partially unsuccessful, but nevertheless attended with very great advantages. That scheme had proved a great benei^ to Victoria, and he should like to sec it m operas tion here. With these remarks the hon. member would support the adoption pf the reportMr. M'GLASHAN was Dot opposed to the fullest discussion of the subject ; on the century, he invited it; but it appeared evident that the committee had not been able to arrive at a really practical solution of the difficulty as to how the public lands could be made more easily accessible 'to the laboring classes of the people. If they had Ibeen unable to determine a principle in connection with that point, he thought there ought to be

further debate in committee. The hon. member expressed himself, tlicrtf'oiv," ns being disposed to go with the amendment. After a few remarks from Mr. IIEYNi >LDS, Mr. GILLIES t>uid ho hud no objection to withdraw his uniendnieut li the llouscwculd accept the report as v " shelving of tho question." The origiual motion was then put and carried. At eight o'clock, on the motion of Mr. DICK, the House rose, being adjourned until to-morrow, (this day) at 4 o'clock in the afternoon ; at which hour it will assemble in the office of the Town Hoard, Princes-street.